The Davidic Servant is The Holy Ghost

[righteousrepublic]

retracted...because...I wanted to.

[I AM]

so Alaris
you seem to be an avid believer in the end-time servant.
How is that ? you, being a TBM, always defending the church and it's leaders,
and YOU ? - you still believe in an end-time servant !? - when the church doesn't !
(probably because he - "a mighty and strong one" is coming to condemn them and to set in order the house of God - (which will not be our current church)
before the Savior's return.)

LDS.org
Isaiah 28
1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:


Show me ANYWHERE where any authority of the church has even touched on it,
you won't find it, because they don't believe in a servant, a prophet that is coming - whether he be Christ or someone else. (no wonder why)
just try mentioning it in church - about an end-time servant that is to come, a prophet, and see how far you get, you'll probably get exed., like everyone else has that has brought up scriptures to show the truth of things.
If this prophets mission - his coming is so important -
WHY have we not heard any church authority speak about it.
(more hiding - hiding the truth and being deceived ? )

interesting what the next few verses say.
lets let Gileadi - his translation speak this time.

7 These too have indulged in wine
and are giddy with strong drink:
priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine
and stagger because of strong drink;
they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit;
no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies.
Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6).
The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

------------------
The Lord's servant
D&C 85

7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

"to set in order" ?
I guess - like all the scriptures indicate, that that must mean that the church is
"out of order" !

[abijah]

I can scarcely understand how members of this Church can find it so convoluted and unfathomable that the Third God could take flesh when they supposedly confess that they believe the Second could and did. Perhaps they know better than brother Joseph.

Imagine it’s true. Imagine the Comforter in heaven is assigned an earthly mission of judgement upon the harlot. Imagine, and consider Jesus’s warning:

Matthew 12

And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

He with an ear to hear, let him be warned.

[Benaishtart]

Can’t wait for him to grow up!

[Benaishtart]

I don’t know if this is true but I seriously hope we have the angel of the Lord become a real mortal man with God like powers. He’s going to be so epic he can move continents, stop the the mouths of lions with his pinky, shock those who tweet against him, prevent the advancement of armies, stop the detonation of nukes, call down fire and brimstone, raise up the dead, and bring terror and trembling to the wicked. I just want to see God’s power shown in an obvious way to the wicked so that people can repent or be judged. He’ll be 1000x more loved/hated than Trump. However anyone who raises his voice against him will face the judgment of God and will suffer in the most matter of fact ways - both physically and spiritually. He’ll build the new and old jerusalem’s. Build their temples. He’ll be the physical savior to help us in the end times. He’s going to be the powerful, regal, and magnified mortal that Jesus and Joseph (both) couldn’t ever be on earth. I can’t wait to see the most epic of epic miracles to ever have happened on this earth. He’ll smash Babylon and his harlot to smithereens! We’re in for a wild ride folks.

[abijah]

I don’t know if this is true but I seriously hope we have the angel of the Lord become a real mortal man with God like powers. He’s going to be so epic he can move continents, stop the the mouths of lions with his pinky, shock those who tweet against him, prevent the advancement of armies, stop the detonation of nukes, call down fire and brimstone, raise up the dead, and bring terror and trembling to the wicked. I just want to see God’s power shown in an obvious way to the wicked so that people can repent or be judged. He’ll be 1000x more loved/hated than Trump. However anyone who raises his voice against him will face the judgment of God and will suffer in the most matter of fact ways - both physically and spiritually. He’ll build the new and old jerusalem’s. Build their temples. He’ll be the physical savior to help us in the end times. He’s going to be the powerful, regal, and magnified mortal that Jesus and Joseph (both) couldn’t ever be on earth. I can’t wait to see the most epic of epic miracles to ever have happened on this earth. He’ll smash Babylon and his harlot to smithereens! We’re in for a wild ride folks.

And for many, he will be the definitive Antichrist.

John 14

and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

[Alaris]

so Alaris
you seem to be an avid believer in the end-time servant.
How is that ? you, being a TBM, always defending the church and it's leaders,
and YOU ? - you still believe in an end-time servant !? - when the church doesn't !
(probably because he - "a mighty and strong one" is coming to condemn them and to set in order the house of God - (which will not be our current church)
before the Savior's return.)

This is an excellent question. I think some TBMs immediately assume I must be against the brethren if I believe in the Davidic Servant, especially when they find out I don't think he will necessarily come from the 15 apostles. First, let me respond by saying I have prayed about President Nelson and have received a witness and additional witnesses since the initial. He is the prophet of the Lord. Can there be more than one prophet at at time? Of course - look at an Old Testament timeline. Look at D&C 133 - the ten tribes have their prophets, plural. Look at Lehi / Nephi - did Jeremiah even know them at all? They came from the same city. The Lord's ways are not our ways - believing the two witnesses must be two of our own apostles is extremely narrow minded imho. Well maybe not extremely - but our own scriptures show patterns and prophecies that suggest otherwise.

LDS.org
Isaiah 28
1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

Ephraim does not equal Ephraim's leaders. Though priests etc. are mentioned in this chapter and leaders, consider that all of Ephraim is the leadership of Israel. I mean, look at the reactions in this thread! "I haven't prayed about this, studied it, asked God who the Holy Ghost is, yet somehow it's OK for me to deride you because I somehow know what you're saying can't be true." Is that coming from a position of:

A. Pride
B. Humility

Oh, I almost forgot: "I haven't even prayed if I should lambast folks who believe the Holy Ghost is the Davidic Servant. Somehow I know this behavior is acceptable!"

I'm not lumping you in there I AM, but the crown of pride of Eprhaim in Isaiah 28 is the reaction of Ephraim at large when the Davidic Servant shows up. D&C 133 indicates Ephraim will eventually come around, but I'm thinking this will sift some folks. Imagine if the Apostles split - some stick to traditional TBMing and some elect to align with the King of ALL of Israel, including Ephraim. I love this question and I very glad you asked it.

Show me ANYWHERE where any authority of the church has even touched on it,
you won't find it, because they don't believe in a servant, a prophet that is coming - whether he be Christ or someone else. (no wonder why)
just try mentioning it in church - about an end-time servant that is to come, a prophet, and see how far you get, you'll probably get exed., like everyone else has that has brought up scriptures to show the truth of things.
If this prophets mission - his coming is so important -
WHY have we not heard any church authority speak about it.
(more hiding - hiding the truth and being deceived ? )

Ahhhhh yes! Great question! First let me answer thusly:

1 Nephi 14:27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was John, according to the word of the angel.
28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.

MAN what contextual coindences! I mean Nephi mentions John and the angel and then says he's forbidden to share more! That's probably the only clues that MMP and the Servant (two closely related doctrines) are forbidden topics right?

Judges 13:18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

I don't need to quote you the many indications that the servant is hidden, but what about this doctrine of how one becomes a God. As Gileadi states beautifully, the servant transitions from being a conditional servant to unconditional inheritor. In other words, he is transitioning from manhood to Godhood. Is there indication that this is also hidden from us? Yea, verily. Read D&C 93:1-20 particularly verses 18 and 20. Compare 20 to how the Son received a fullness. The Davidic Servant is a key critical component in answering that question.

Ether 13:11 And then also cometh the Jerusalem of old; and the inhabitants thereof, blessed are they, for they have been washed in the blood of the Lamb; and they are they who were scattered and gathered in from the four quarters of the earth, and from the north countries, and are partakers of the fulfilling of the covenant which God made with their father, Abraham.

12 And when these things come, bringeth to pass the scripture which saith, there are they who were first, who shall be last; and there are they who were last, who shall be first.

13 And I was about to write more, but I am forbidden; but great and marvelous were the prophecies of Ether; but they esteemed him as naught, and cast him out; and he hid himself in the cavity of a rock by day, and by night he went forth viewing the things which should come upon the people.


Might those hidden things pertain to the servant who fulfills the Abrahamic Covenant by gathering Israel, restoring them to their lands, and establishing an everlasting kingdom? Maybe?

1 Enoch 61:10. Then shall the kings, the princes, and all who possess the earth, glorify him who has dominion over all things, him who was concealed; for from the beginning the Son of man existed in secret, whom the Most High preserved in the presence of his power, and revealed to the elect.

"Son of Man" is the elect one who is the Rod of Jesse - (I've made the connection here) who is the Davidic Servant. He is concealed since the foundation of the world. Isaiah reinforces this fact - Jesus quotes Isaiah reinforcing this fact. What does this have to do with your question? Circle back to my witness at the beginning. Let's say you know President Nelson is a prophet. How can these facts be synthesized? Very easily. For the prophets are appendages of the body of Christ. He is in charge. Whether he reveals to them this mystery or not - does it matter? Is that a prerequisite to being a servant of Christ? I believe most, if not all of them know, but I'll get into that in a minute.

interesting what the next few verses say.
lets let Gileadi - his translation speak this time.

7 These too have indulged in wine
and are giddy with strong drink:
priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine
and stagger because of strong drink;
they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit;
no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies.
Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6).
The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

Well we can agree on the political leadership. Mitt Romney ... Harry Reid I believe you have touched on likely why Gileadi was excommunicated, although that was never revealed. The commentary on Isaiah 28 ... sheesh! Yet, does it have to apply to the leaderrship today? Have we had apostles that perhaps ventured beyond their purview speaking authoritatively about things that haven't been revealed yet? The Joseph Fielding Smith quote about avoiding speculation ... fortunately that's not the only evidence of his perhaps overextending his purview. The Doctrines of Salvation were published decades ago ... likely way before the servant's birth. Perhaps the Lord just didn't reveal to apostle JFS ... or perhaps Isaiah 28. I'd like to think Isaiah 28 has already been fulfilled if it pertains to our leadership. We've certainly had our share of pride among our leaders tracing back to the foundation (read rough stone rolling.) Dealing with the pride of the leadership was perhaps one of Joseph Smith's greatest obstacle.

------------------
The Lord's servant
D&C 85

7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

"to set in order" ?
I guess - like all the scriptures indicate, that that must mean that the church is
"out of order" !

OK, so here's how and why I believe at the very least the first presidency knows about the servant. Their talks over the last several years seemed to contain indication of their alluding ... Erying's talk about the sons of thunder was a big confirmation to me that he was speaking to sons of the thunder (7 thunders in revelation = 7 archangels) - way too much to explain. Ucthdorf had a great talk in that same conference that seemed like alluding to these events that are about to come to pass. But what about President Nelson?

Before you joined these forums (iirc) I posted a LOT about the Revelation 12 sign on 9/23. I still believe this was a sign of the times - that the birth of the man child (Davidic Servant) and the Kingdom of God is upon us. Of course the birth is not a physical birth but a spiritual birth into the order of Godhood. Anyway, I posted quite a bit about how I believed this signaled a change from the time of the gentiles to the Gathering of Israel. I was mocked incessantly, ridiculed, etc. you know the drill. ~ 6 months later President & Sister Nelson host an amazing youth conference where he tells the youth the most important mission they face is the Gathering of Israel! Coincidence? (Guess how many apologies flooded in at that point (hint: Isaiah 28.)) To someone who didn't already have a witness of President Nelson, yes that's a coincidence maybe. To someone who did have a testimony of President Nelson already (me,) the spirit touched me again after some suffering for my beliefs (yes folks - the people who write in these forums are real people with real feelings.)

OK - then the following conference (April 2018) President Nelson says this:

Our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, will perform some of His mightiest works between now and when He comes again. We will see miraculous indications that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, preside over this Church in majesty and glory. But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.

Now, to most I'm sure that reads with one fewer layer than it does me. However, I believe President Nelson knows what's coming - Sister Nelson gave some indication to this as well - something about wishing she could share everything she knows just by being in close proximity to the Prophet. If you knew, wouldn't you want to share? Well you do know and you do. And so do I. And in that we see eye to eye.

Why am I permitted to share what I know? I can attest that I am indeed permitted to share and I feel it now in my bosom. Perhaps if I were in President Nelson's shoes (role & calling) I wouldn't be permitted. The Lord reveals to whom He will, how He will, and when He will. I am not alone in this witness as several others have chimed in here despite the tactics of Saul Alynski of isolation and demonization that have been employed against me here in recent pages. God is revealing this truth to Ephraim.... perhaps this one comes from the bottom up precisely due to this truth here:

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

However the end times unfold, the proud will likely be sifted first. Only those who are willing to be wrong can learn what is right and true imho - Are you willing to be wrong about President Nelson? He is the Lord's prophet and presides over His church. I don't know what will happen with the church returns to the wilderness and the Kingdom is birthed, but I would think belonging to the Lord's church would be better than not. I challenge you my friend to consider you may be wrong about President Nelson. Get on your knees in humility and ask God if President Nelson is the Lord's prophet.

EDIT: I forgot to address your question about D&C 85:7 and the OMAS who sets in order the house of God. First, we have to define "House of God." Is that Ephraim or Israel? See what I mean? Is Israel in order right now? Nope.

But let's take a look at Ephraim. Isaiah 28 does prophesy what happens when the servant arrives on scene. What indications do we have that the "crown of pride" may be or become a problem in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Well, there's that book that was compiled and written for us called, "The Book of Mormon" that includes something known as "The Pride Cycle" that was given to us as a key to help us recognize our awful state when pride creeps in.

I've lived all over the Phoenix metropolis. Some wards have a strong spiritual vibe than others. The rural wards are by far the strongest spiritually - great kids, hard working. I'm now in a suburban ward and the Priests act like unruly children. The fathers are nowhere to be seen while the kids are monkeying around. Envying and strife? Well look no further than LDSFF haha!

In sum though, there are absolutely righteous, humble saints throughout the church. Even my current ward with its issues is full of good people. Are there issues of pride throughout Ephraim? Absolutely. My sister's ward might as well be a fashion show, and the Book of Mormon includes the costly apparel as an indicator as well.

[Alaris]

Our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, will perform some of His mightiest works between now and when He comes again. We will see miraculous indications that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, preside over this Church in majesty and glory. But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost. `President Nelson

Consider the above statement may actually be President Nelson acknowledging he can't reveal this mystery but knows it is available to folks if they will but listen to the influence of the Holy Ghost.

[Alaris]

So I was commenting in this other thread and felt I should take a look at Gileadi's commentary. For context, this is where the Lord awakens His servant to his identity. Either Gileadi is purposefully ignoring the obvious connection here perhaps by mandate, or he also has been a victim of this spirit of deep sleep that has kept this truth hidden for so long.

Isaiah 51:9 ¶ Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?

10 Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?

11 Therefore the redeemed of the Lord shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;

Verse 12 commentary.

While God’s holy Spirit serves as a Comforter (John 14:26), so does Jehovah’s servant (Isaiah 61:2) and Jehovah himself—each according to his people’s needs and circumstances. Divine comfort thus follows after trials that test a person’s loyalties when one keeps the terms of Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 40:1-2; 49:13-16; 66:5-13). Many such trials come at the hands of “mortal man” or “the children of men,” tempting Jehovah’s people to fear their enemies. But Jehovah reminds his people that before long their oppressors will perish when he turns them into grass—a chaos motif (Isaiah 37:27). ~ Avraham Gileadi http://isaiahexplained.com/51#commentary

[I AM]

thanks Alaris for your views and theories
but I just can't be pulled down that rabbit hole as easy
as some of your other believers.
As I've said before, you have a way of taking scripture
and changing it to agree with what you personally believe in, and not what
the scriptures are actually saying.
“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.” –Robert J. Ringer

I'm really wasting my time here, because I know what the scriptures say,
and it's not what you're saying they say.
but to each his own I guess.
You can continue in your theories, and what YOU THINK the scriptures say,
but I just don't have the heart - to continue because I know how you think and believe by the things you have said, but I do not see things and believe as you do.

Isaiah and Jesus Christ Himself speaks of our apostasy,
and I have shown this through scriptures in so many of my posts.
""the drunkards of Ephraim! "
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50399&p=905648&hili ... of#p905648

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=50553&p=909118&hil ... of#p909118

But of course members like you that would rather put their trust in church leaders - men and their precepts,
(blinded because of this - thinking that these scriptures
couldn't possibly be taking about the church and it's leaders)
instead of our scriptures and the prophets in them, and in the words of Jesus Christ Himself, can't see this.
I will tell you what I have a testimony in - not because it's what I want to believe -
but because the word of God says so, and I put my faith and trust in God -
and His word, and because it's what I have studied my whole life.
1. the church is in Apostasy.
2. the church is no longer being led by the Lord.
3. the church is no longer receiving revelation.
4. because of this - the Lord is sending HIS PROPHET - His end-time servant,
to condemn the church and bring judgments down
on ALL the Gentiles in America (which includes the church and it's members.
The Times of the Gentiles are ending.
The lord gave us a chance and did all that He could for us,
but we (the church and it's members) HAVE NOT REPENTED,
just as the scriptures below say we wouldn't.

2 Nephi 28

29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!

30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto MY PRECEPTS, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

32 Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day,
they will deny me;
nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.



THE GENTILES - your future
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------------------------

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47011&p=912727&hili ... m.#p912727

[righteousrepublic]

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear MY VOICE, and open the door,
I WILL COME IN TO HIM, and will sup with him, and he with me."
(Revelation 3:20)

If "I" - the Lord - and MY VOICE is not the Holy Ghost - His spirit that comes into us -
then I think that scripture has become useless.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and (a)open the door, I will (b)come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

20 a open
D&C 88:63
63 (a)Draw (b)near unto me and I will draw near unto you; (c)seek me diligently and ye shall (d)find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

20 b come
John 14:23 (23–25).
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

D&C 88:63 a b c d
(a) Ps. 69:18; Zech. 1:3; James 4:8; Rev. 3:20 (20–21). TG God, Access to; God, Presence of.

(b) Deut. 4:7; Lam. 3:57; Ezek. 36:9 (8–15).

(c) 1 Chr. 28:9; Ezra 8:22 (22–23); Ether 12:41; D&C 101:38; Abr. 2:12.

(d) 2 Chr. 15:15; D&C 4:7; 49:26.
.................................................................................................................................................................
(a)
Ps. 69:18
18 Draw nigh unto my soul, and redeem it: deliver me because of mine enemies.

Zech. 1:3
3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the Lord of hosts.

James 4:8
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Rev. 3:20 (20–21)
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
.................................................................................................................................................................
(b)
Deut. 4:7
7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

Lam. 3:57
57 Thou drewest near in the day that I called upon thee: thou saidst, Fear not.

Ezek. 36:9
9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
.................................................................................................................................................................
(c)
1 Chr. 28:9
9 ¶ And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Ezra 8:22 (22–23)
22 For I was ashamed to require of the king a band of soldiers and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way: because we had spoken unto the king, saying, The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek him; but his power and his wrath is against all them that forsake him.
23 So we fasted and besought our God for this: and he was entreated of us.

Ether 12:41
41 And now, I would commend you to seek this Jesus of whom the prophets and apostles have written, that the grace of God the Father, and also the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of them, may be and abide in you forever. Amen.

D&C 101:38
38 And seek the face of the Lord always, that in patience ye may possess your souls, and ye shall have eternal life.

Abr. 2:12
12 Now, after the Lord had withdrawn from speaking to me, and withdrawn his face from me, I said in my heart: Thy servant has sought thee earnestly; now I have found thee;
.................................................................................................................................................................
(d)
2 Chr. 15:15
15 And all Judah rejoiced at the oath: for they had sworn with all their heart, and sought him with their whole desire; and he was found of them: and the Lord gave them rest round about.

D&C 4:7
7 Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Amen.

49:26
26 Behold, I say unto you, go forth as I have commanded you; repent of all your sins; ask and ye shall receive; knock and it shall be opened unto you.


Bottom line...seek Christ with all our heart (draw near unto him) and He will come to us (he will draw unto us)
He will not come to us if we do not open the door. We must relinquish our free agency and allow him to enter into us by His Holy Spirit (first comforter). Then if we live faithful and true, he will come to us in person (second comforter) and grant eternal life; this is one's calling and election made sure.

There are only two comforters.

[righteousrepublic]

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save (except) their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost. The fifteen do not fit into the category of being the arm of flesh. Neither does any church member teaching the gospel by the power of the Holy Ghost. Some people do not receive because they are either rebellious, lacking humility or they are beyond feeling. Yet others don't learn properly because someone is ahead of them wresting the scriptures to suit their own theories. This is in scripture as well.

save = except

Gileadi falls under arm of flesh due to the fact that there are falsities within his writings. It will take the Holy Ghost to help one sort out the errors.

[Davka]

thanks Alaris for your views and theories
but I just can't be pulled down that rabbit hole as easy
as some of your other believers.
As I've said before, you have a way of taking scripture
and changing it to agree with what you personally believe in, and not what
the scriptures are actually saying.
“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.” –Robert J. Ringer

I'm really wasting my time here, because I know what the scriptures say,
and it's not what you're saying they say.
but to each his own I guess.
You can continue in your theories, and what YOU THINK the scriptures say,
but I just don't have the heart - to continue because I know how you think and believe by the things you have said, but I do not see things and believe as you do.

Isaiah and Jesus Christ Himself speaks of our apostasy,
and I have shown this through scriptures in so many of my posts.
But of course members that would rather put their trust in church leaders - men and their precepts instead of our scriptures and the prophets in them, and in the words of Jesus Christ Himself, can't see this.
I will tell you what I have a testimony in - not because it's what I want to believe -
but because the word of God says so, and I put my faith and trust in God -
and His word, and because it's what I have studied my whole life.
1. the church is in Apostasy.
2. the church is no longer being led by the Lord.
3. the church is no longer receiving revelation.
4. because of this - the Lord is sending HIS PROPHET - His end-time servant,
to condemn the church and bring judgments down
on ALL the Gentiles in America (which includes the church and it's members.
The Times of the Gentiles are ending.
The lord gave us a chance and did all that He could for us,
but we (the church and it's members) HAVE NOT REPENTED,
just as the scriptures below say we wouldn't.

2 Nephi 28

29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!

30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto MY PRECEPTS, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

32 Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day,
they will deny me;
nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.



THE GENTILES - your future
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51261&p=924410&hili ... re#p924410
------------------------

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47011&p=912727&hili ... m.#p912727

I have no horse in this race other than that finding truth. I have truly studied and asked about the state of the Church, and I have not received an answer that it is in apostasy. The keys are still here. Are the Saints (collectively) living up to our covenants? No, we aren’t. We haven’t lived righteously enough to establish Zion. We are living short of our potential blessings. We are as the children of Israel wandering in the wilderness. Did their unwillingness as a people to live the higher law mean that Moses or Aaron or Joshua were wicked? No. They were righteous, albeit imperfect as well as the people they were leading. But the priesthood authority remained with God’s people while they wandered and learned and errored. The priesthood authority remains with us as a people, and in some instances perhaps even independent of actual priesthood power, which is dependent on faith and righteousness. Priesthood authority to perform ordinances and administer the Gospel can be given to whomever the Lord wants, worthy of it or not.

I do believe the Davidic Servant will be rejected by many within the church. He will be a key player in the sifting. But the existence of an end time servant does not necessarily mean that the priesthood keys that reside within the hierarchy of the Church’s leadership are null and void. Like Joseph said, stay with the majority of the 12. I truly believe when this man comes on the scene, at least 8 of the 15 will hear him and recognize him for who he is. I only pray that whatever the circumstances, I will heed the Spirit and recognize him when he comes.

[I AM]

trusting in the arm of the flesh

Be Wary of Man and His Words

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50228&p=904627&hili ... ds#p904627

[I AM]

thanks Alaris for your views and theories
but I just can't be pulled down that rabbit hole as easy
as some of your other believers.
As I've said before, you have a way of taking scripture
and changing it to agree with what you personally believe in, and not what
the scriptures are actually saying.
“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.” –Robert J. Ringer

I'm really wasting my time here, because I know what the scriptures say,
and it's not what you're saying they say.
but to each his own I guess.
You can continue in your theories, and what YOU THINK the scriptures say,
but I just don't have the heart - to continue because I know how you think and believe by the things you have said, but I do not see things and believe as you do.

Isaiah and Jesus Christ Himself speaks of our apostasy,
and I have shown this through scriptures in so many of my posts.
But of course members that would rather put their trust in church leaders - men and their precepts instead of our scriptures and the prophets in them, and in the words of Jesus Christ Himself, can't see this.
I will tell you what I have a testimony in - not because it's what I want to believe -
but because the word of God says so, and I put my faith and trust in God -
and His word, and because it's what I have studied my whole life.
1. the church is in Apostasy.
2. the church is no longer being led by the Lord.
3. the church is no longer receiving revelation.
4. because of this - the Lord is sending HIS PROPHET - His end-time servant,
to condemn the church and bring judgments down
on ALL the Gentiles in America (which includes the church and it's members.
The Times of the Gentiles are ending.
The lord gave us a chance and did all that He could for us,
but we (the church and it's members) HAVE NOT REPENTED,
just as the scriptures below say we wouldn't.

2 Nephi 28

29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!

30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto MY PRECEPTS, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

32 Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day,
they will deny me;
nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.



THE GENTILES - your future
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51261&p=924410&hili ... re#p924410
------------------------

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47011&p=912727&hili ... m.#p912727

I have no horse in this race other than that finding truth. I have truly studied and asked about the state of the Church, and I have not received an answer that it is in apostasy. The keys are still here. Are the Saints (collectively) living up to our covenants? No, we aren’t. We haven’t lived righteously enough to establish Zion. We are living short of our potential blessings. We are as the children of Israel wandering in the wilderness. Did their unwillingness as a people to live the higher law mean that Moses or Aaron or Joshua were wicked? No. They were righteous, albeit imperfect as well as the people they were leading. But the priesthood authority remained with God’s people while they wandered and learned and errored. The priesthood authority remains with us as a people, and in some instances perhaps even independent of actual priesthood power, which is dependent on faith and righteousness. Priesthood authority to perform ordinances and administer the Gospel can be given to whomever the Lord wants, worthy of it or not.

I do believe the Davidic Servant will be rejected by many within the church. He will be a key player in the sifting. But the existence of an end time servant does not necessarily mean that the priesthood keys that reside within the hierarchy of the Church’s leadership are null and void. Like Joseph said, stay with the majority of the 12. I truly believe when this man comes on the scene, at least 8 of the 15 will hear him and recognize him for who he is. I only pray that whatever the circumstances, I will heed the Spirit and recognize him when he comes.

----------------

sorry but, that's not what the scriptures say.

Our exclusive Priesthood rights to end
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48178&p=850218&hili ... nd#p850218

and
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51369&p=927567&hili ... ch#p927567

[ori]

Alaris, do you believe the Davidic servant has been born?

[righteousrepublic]

From another website, here is what one poster had to say:
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/714 ... c-servant/

To Alaris --

"I think you have provided very strong evidence that some early Church leaders held beliefs about a divinely-guided figure in the Last Days named David. However, you have not provided sufficient evidence that we should accept this information in the sources you cite. There are plenty of things printed in the Times and Seasons that we don't accept today. Joseph Smith made a clear doctrinal error in the King Follett Discourse when he reference infants (President Smith was right to have this reference redacted from official printings of the text). Why should we accept the references you cite? Even if Joseph said something, that doesn't mean we automatically accept it. There is an order and process to these things.

The bigger problem with your argument is about the use of Scripture in the Hebrew Bible. In both Ezekiel and Isaiah, we know that when the seed of David is referenced, this almost always refers to Christ and his coming Kingdom. David list his throne, but Christ is the True King. That's how the symbolism is employed throughout the text. I don't think your scriptural evidence supports any conclusion beyond the traditional understanding that references to David's kingship of Israel, always lead to Christ.

Lastly, I'm not sure how believing in, or concerning yourself with this coming David Servant does any practical good. Follow the mainstream of the Church and follow the Prophet. I think we have to tread carefully when we become highly interested in on particular aspect of the Gospel."

And yet another on said this:

"If God is going to judge me as not having oil in my lamp for not seeking an “esoteric awakening” about a vague prophetic figure promulgated on an obscure website on the Internet by someone without authority then God is not anything like who I imagine Him/Them to be.

That being said I do agree that we must seek out the mysteries on our own and that God reveals those mysteries unto many. I have gotten a few. I also believe that God meant what was said through many prophets that these are revelations for us alone and that we are to preach only the general gospel and that if we wanted what was revealed to us individually taught generally he would do it through normal Priesthood channels. You are violating this principle."

Then comes a response by A----s



"I don't know that I would call it stunning. I guess you didn't actually say I was wrong in content but in delivery which is you assuming the role of the Holy Ghost authoritatively stating I was in violation of principle. Only the Spirit can permit or restrict such. Considering only one of us has truly studied out and prayed about the content... That's quite the claim indeed. Stunning even...

"...The fact there are any folks online who troll in the name of the Lord with the tactics of the devil is what is stunning. Or have I made another error wherein you've never claimed to be gathered here in the Lord's name? Why are you here? Are you seeking, sharing, or just trolling? Do you enjoy antagonizing folks in a Gospel forum by deceptive tactics?"

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/714 ... c-servant/

[Alaris]

Alaris, do you believe the Davidic servant has been born?

Yes. I believe the sign on 9/23 signaled the servant's awakening (Isaiah 52) and perhaps the sealing of his crown. (Revelation 3)

The sign doesn't mention the Lion, so what a coincidence that the Lion of Judah was a part of that sign. Jesse / Judah

lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/for-unto-us-childis-born-disclaimer.html?m=1

I should write a part 3 on all the amazing things that happened around that sign.

So just to reiterate, I agree with Gileadi about the servant transitioning from being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor. I believe the sign signals the securing of that crown and right to rule. A heavenly birth rather than a physical one.

[ori]

Alaris, do you believe the Davidic servant has been born?

Yes. I believe the sign on 9/23 signaled the servant's awakening (Isaiah 52) and perhaps the sealing of his crown. (Revelation 3)

The sign doesn't mention the Lion, so what a coincidence that the Lion of Judah was a part of that sign. Jesse / Judah

lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/for-unto-us-childis-born-disclaimer.html?m=1

I should write a part 3 on all the amazing things that happened around that sign.

So just to reiterate, I agree with Gileadi about the servant transitioning from being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor. I believe the sign signals the securing of that crown and right to rule. A heavenly birth rather than a physical one.

I don’t understand this heavenly birth. If the Davidic servant was just born as a spirit child, how can he possibly be the HG, who has been around since ... well, a long time.

[Davka]

thanks Alaris for your views and theories
but I just can't be pulled down that rabbit hole as easy
as some of your other believers.
As I've said before, you have a way of taking scripture
and changing it to agree with what you personally believe in, and not what
the scriptures are actually saying.
“People say they love truth, but in reality they want to believe that which they love is true.” –Robert J. Ringer

I'm really wasting my time here, because I know what the scriptures say,
and it's not what you're saying they say.
but to each his own I guess.
You can continue in your theories, and what YOU THINK the scriptures say,
but I just don't have the heart - to continue because I know how you think and believe by the things you have said, but I do not see things and believe as you do.

Isaiah and Jesus Christ Himself speaks of our apostasy,
and I have shown this through scriptures in so many of my posts.
But of course members that would rather put their trust in church leaders - men and their precepts instead of our scriptures and the prophets in them, and in the words of Jesus Christ Himself, can't see this.
I will tell you what I have a testimony in - not because it's what I want to believe -
but because the word of God says so, and I put my faith and trust in God -
and His word, and because it's what I have studied my whole life.
1. the church is in Apostasy.
2. the church is no longer being led by the Lord.
3. the church is no longer receiving revelation.
4. because of this - the Lord is sending HIS PROPHET - His end-time servant,
to condemn the church and bring judgments down
on ALL the Gentiles in America (which includes the church and it's members.
The Times of the Gentiles are ending.
The lord gave us a chance and did all that He could for us,
but we (the church and it's members) HAVE NOT REPENTED,
just as the scriptures below say we wouldn't.

2 Nephi 28

29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!

30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto MY PRECEPTS, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

32 Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day,
they will deny me;
nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.



THE GENTILES - your future
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51261&p=924410&hili ... re#p924410
------------------------

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47011&p=912727&hili ... m.#p912727

I have no horse in this race other than that finding truth. I have truly studied and asked about the state of the Church, and I have not received an answer that it is in apostasy. The keys are still here. Are the Saints (collectively) living up to our covenants? No, we aren’t. We haven’t lived righteously enough to establish Zion. We are living short of our potential blessings. We are as the children of Israel wandering in the wilderness. Did their unwillingness as a people to live the higher law mean that Moses or Aaron or Joshua were wicked? No. They were righteous, albeit imperfect as well as the people they were leading. But the priesthood authority remained with God’s people while they wandered and learned and errored. The priesthood authority remains with us as a people, and in some instances perhaps even independent of actual priesthood power, which is dependent on faith and righteousness. Priesthood authority to perform ordinances and administer the Gospel can be given to whomever the Lord wants, worthy of it or not.

I do believe the Davidic Servant will be rejected by many within the church. He will be a key player in the sifting. But the existence of an end time servant does not necessarily mean that the priesthood keys that reside within the hierarchy of the Church’s leadership are null and void. Like Joseph said, stay with the majority of the 12. I truly believe when this man comes on the scene, at least 8 of the 15 will hear him and recognize him for who he is. I only pray that whatever the circumstances, I will heed the Spirit and recognize him when he comes.

----------------

sorry but, that's not what the scriptures say.

Our exclusive Priesthood rights to end
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48178&p=850218&hili ... nd#p850218

and
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51369&p=927567&hili ... ch#p927567

Sure, they will end eventually. That doesn’t mean they have already ended. It says until the restoration of all things...that hasn’t happened yet.

Honestly, this thread isn’t the right place to have this discussion. I am aware of your stance. I may actually be one of the few people on the forum who read your posts completely. I just don’t read the scriptures to mean the same thing you read them to mean. All scripture should be taken in context of all other revelation and scripture to fully understand it. Taking every scripture at face value does not always give you the whole story. For example, today I was reading in Matthew 23. Baptists down here in the South love to charge the Latter Day Saints with being out of line with the scriptures because of our belief in eternal marriage because of Jesus saying that in the resurrection no one is married. But we know that that isn’t the case. Further revelation on the subject —that those married, but not sealed will indeed be angels unto God in the resurrection — clarifies the apparent discrepancy. But a person could, if they chose to take the scriptures at face value without added context, come on the board and argue that we are out of line as a Church with Jesus teachings.

I know that pride exists within the church. We are, in general, a prideful people, myself included, and should repent. But it occurred to me one time how much humility it takes to accept that the Lord has placed another imperfect person in a position of authority over us, even though that person is on the same level as we may be. The times I have started to feel like I don’t need the Church or to sustain a leader over me by listening to his counsel or that I have studied this or that and know better than Apostle x or Bishop Y is when I have been rebuked by the Spirit for pride. Unless the Lord himself has appeared to you and called you as a prophet or placed you in an official priesthood leadership capacity through the channels of his organization on Earth, then there will always be a priesthood authority above you to *administer* the gospel. This doesn’t mean there will be an intermediary between you and revelation from God through the Holy Ghost, but as far as administration, the organization is the way God sets things up. To keep things in order. That’s why Samuel sent people he preached to the Nephi to be baptized. Because Nephi had the keys. Again the Lord chooses who has keys. Priesthood power is separate and can be exercised by anyone with enough faith...that’s what Samuel had. But he wasn’t the one in authority, and therefore relied on that person to have ordinances administered. That is the purpose of the restoration of priesthood authority. The Davidic Servant will absolutely be able to exercise priesthood power independent of priesthood authority if that is God’s will. In that way, he could be exercising priesthood power while President Nelson or whoever is still holding the keys. But you are right that eventually the correct keys will have to be committed back to him. But for now, the reside with the Church, with the Quorum of the First Presidency holding all the keys of priesthood authirity currently committed to the World.

[Alaris]

Alaris, do you believe the Davidic servant has been born?

Yes. I believe the sign on 9/23 signaled the servant's awakening (Isaiah 52) and perhaps the sealing of his crown. (Revelation 3)

The sign doesn't mention the Lion, so what a coincidence that the Lion of Judah was a part of that sign. Jesse / Judah

lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/for-unto-us-childis-born-disclaimer.html?m=1

I should write a part 3 on all the amazing things that happened around that sign.

So just to reiterate, I agree with Gileadi about the servant transitioning from being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor. I believe the sign signals the securing of that crown and right to rule. A heavenly birth rather than a physical one.

I don’t understand this heavenly birth. If the Davidic servant was just born as a spirit child, how can he possibly be the HG, who has been around since ... well, a long time.

Read through the message to the angel of he sixth church. Compare to Revelation 12.

There are many scriptures about becoming sons (after our initial creation)

Think about new names and how that may factor in to becoming a son or becoming firstborn.

Moses 6
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Facsimile three is also a great illustration about how one secures a throne by sitting upon it first in a probationary rule.

[ori]

Alaris, do you believe the Davidic servant has been born?

Yes. I believe the sign on 9/23 signaled the servant's awakening (Isaiah 52) and perhaps the sealing of his crown. (Revelation 3)

The sign doesn't mention the Lion, so what a coincidence that the Lion of Judah was a part of that sign. Jesse / Judah

lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/for-unto-us-childis-born-disclaimer.html?m=1

I should write a part 3 on all the amazing things that happened around that sign.

So just to reiterate, I agree with Gileadi about the servant transitioning from being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor. I believe the sign signals the securing of that crown and right to rule. A heavenly birth rather than a physical one.

I don’t understand this heavenly birth. If the Davidic servant was just born as a spirit child, how can he possibly be the HG, who has been around since ... well, a long time.

Read through the message to the angel of he sixth church. Compare to Revelation 12.

There are many scriptures about becoming sons (after our initial creation)

Think about new names and how that may factor in to becoming a son or becoming firstborn.

Moses 6
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Facsimile three is also a great illustration about how one secures a throne by sitting upon it first in a probationary rule.

You say a lot of things that go over my head. This is one. Not sure what is meant by “message of the angel to the sixth church”. I’m a pretty literal thinker and have a hard time thinking symbolically.

I’ll have to google it.

[Alaris]

Yes. I believe the sign on 9/23 signaled the servant's awakening (Isaiah 52) and perhaps the sealing of his crown. (Revelation 3)

The sign doesn't mention the Lion, so what a coincidence that the Lion of Judah was a part of that sign. Jesse / Judah

lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/for-unto-us-childis-born-disclaimer.html?m=1

I should write a part 3 on all the amazing things that happened around that sign.

So just to reiterate, I agree with Gileadi about the servant transitioning from being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor. I believe the sign signals the securing of that crown and right to rule. A heavenly birth rather than a physical one.

I don’t understand this heavenly birth. If the Davidic servant was just born as a spirit child, how can he possibly be the HG, who has been around since ... well, a long time.

Read through the message to the angel of he sixth church. Compare to Revelation 12.

There are many scriptures about becoming sons (after our initial creation)

Think about new names and how that may factor in to becoming a son or becoming firstborn.

Moses 6
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

Facsimile three is also a great illustration about how one secures a throne by sitting upon it first in a probationary rule.

You say a lot of things that go over my head. This is one. Not sure what is meant by “message of the angel to the sixth church”. I’m a pretty literal thinker and have a hard time thinking symbolically.

Apologies. This iPhone is driving me bonkers. I don't know how so many folks put up with these. My Android is coming in on Tuesday and I'm counting the minutes!

That and I should be more cognizant of what I'm saying

The sixth church is a sequential counting from the dust message to the sixth. There are seven total. I believe this message is to the Davidic Servant / Holy Ghost

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

[righteousrepublic]

Alaris, do you believe the Davidic servant has been born?

Yes. I believe the sign on 9/23 signaled the servant's awakening (Isaiah 52) and perhaps the sealing of his crown. (Revelation 3)

The sign doesn't mention the Lion, so what a coincidence that the Lion of Judah was a part of that sign. Jesse / Judah

lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/for-unto-us-childis-born-disclaimer.html?m=1

I should write a part 3 on all the amazing things that happened around that sign.

So just to reiterate, I agree with Gileadi about the servant transitioning from being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor. I believe the sign signals the securing of that crown and right to rule. A heavenly birth rather than a physical one.

I don’t understand this heavenly birth. If the Davidic servant was just born as a spirit child, how can he possibly be the HG, who has been around since ... well, a long time.

Read through the message to the angel of he sixth church. Compare to Revelation 12.

There are many scriptures about becoming sons (after our initial creation)

Think about new names and how that may factor in to becoming a son or becoming firstborn. Incorrect. The righteous that learn of and follow Christ and his gospel, can become his sons and his daughters, or in a word...elect. This is not being firstborn. It is becoming members OF the First Born, even Jesus Christ. Read D&C 76.

Also: Mosiah 5:7

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Moses 6
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen. See Mosiah 5:7

Facsimile three is also a great illustration about how one secures a throne by sitting upon it first in a probationary rule.

[Alaris]

Yes. I believe the sign on 9/23 signaled the servant's awakening (Isaiah 52) and perhaps the sealing of his crown. (Revelation 3)

The sign doesn't mention the Lion, so what a coincidence that the Lion of Judah was a part of that sign. Jesse / Judah

lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2017/06/for-unto-us-childis-born-disclaimer.html?m=1

I should write a part 3 on all the amazing things that happened around that sign.

So just to reiterate, I agree with Gileadi about the servant transitioning from being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor. I believe the sign signals the securing of that crown and right to rule. A heavenly birth rather than a physical one.

I don’t understand this heavenly birth. If the Davidic servant was just born as a spirit child, how can he possibly be the HG, who has been around since ... well, a long time.

Read through the message to the angel of he sixth church. Compare to Revelation 12.

There are many scriptures about becoming sons (after our initial creation)

Think about new names and how that may factor in to becoming a son or becoming firstborn. Incorrect. The righteous that learn of and follow Christ and his gospel, can become his sons and his daughters, or in a word...elect. This is not being firstborn. It is becoming members OF the First Born, even Jesus Christ. Read D&C 76.

Also: Mosiah 5:7

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Moses 6
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen. See Mosiah 5:7

Facsimile three is also a great illustration about how one secures a throne by sitting upon it first in a probationary rule.

Compare the Elias, Elijah, Messiah sermon to the 1843 sermon I linked a couple of pages back. The Holy Ghost is on the path to joint heirship as is the latter-day King David. I agree that joining the church of the firstborn may not necessarily meaning becoming firstborn yet ....but Joseph taught there is one path to Godhood. And I believe him.