LDS Freedom Forum

In reading the wiki entry on "Messiah Ben Joseph" I discovered Gabriel's Revelation which is a stone table that predates Jesus Christ's birth by decades.

In reading the text, there were quite a few interesting coincidences to these topics of study! Here is the text from the stone tablet that from this link:

Gabriel's Revelation
English Translation by Israel Knohl

Col. 1
1. [ ] ……..
2. [ ] Lord
3. [ ] . [ ] .
4. [ f]or th[us sa]id the Lo[rd] I have betr[oth]ed you to me,
garden
5. [ ]… ..[
6. and I will talk …. …. [
7. [ ] children of Israel …. [?]…[ ] ...[ ] ….
8. son of David [?] ……[
9. [ ] the word of the Lor[d]
10. [ ] …. ….. ….. ….. you have asked … [?]
11. [?] Lord you have asked me, so said the God of Hosts
12. [ ] .. from my house Israel and I will talk about the greatness of
Jerusalem
13. [Thus] said the Lord, God of Israel, now all the nations
14. … enc[amp] on Jerusalem and from it are exi[led]
15. one two three forty Prophets and the elders
16. and the Hasidim. My servant David, ask of Ephraim
17. [that he] place the sign; (this) I ask of you. For thus said
18. the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, my gardens are ripe,
19. My holy thing for Israel. By three days you shall know, for thus said
20. the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, the evil has been broken
21. before righteousness. Ask me, and I shall tell you, what is this
22. wicked branch, plastered white. You are standing, the angel
23. is supporting you. Do not fear. Blessed is the glory of the Lord God
from
24. his seat. In a little while, I will shake
25. .. the heavens and the earth. Here is the glory of the Lord God
26. of Hosts, the God of Israel, These are the seven chariots
27. at the gate of Jerusalem and the gates of Judea they will re[st] for
28. my three angels, Michael and all the others, look for
29. your power. So said of the Lord God of Hosts, the God
30. of Israel. One two three four five six
31. [se]ven for my angels….. what is this? He said, the frontlet
32. …. [ ] …. ……. and the second chief
33. watches on.. Jerusalem …… three in the greatness
34. …………….. three [ ] …..
35. [ ] …. . that he saw a man … works [
36. that he …. [ ] that a sign from Jerusalem
37. I on ...[ ] ashes and a sign of exile ..
38. (s)ign of exile ……. God sin … and see
39. …. … [ ] Jerusalem said the Lord
40. ………… ……. That his mist will fill most of the moon
41. [ ] blood that the northerner would become maggoty
42. [ ]abhorrence the diseased spot . in all
43. [ ] . God [
44. [ ] . [?]
Col. 2 (There are no legible words before line 51)
51. with you (or: your nation) ….
52. .. the angels [ ] from ... on [ ] ..
53. … and tomorrow to … they will rest … big .. .. ..
54. [by] three days this is what (I have) said He
55. these are [
56. please see the north[erner] enca[mps] [
57. Seal up the blood of the slaughtered of Jerusalem. For thus said the
Lord of Hos[ts]
58. the God of Israel, So said the Lord of Hosts the God of
59. Israel [
60. … He will have pity .. His mercy are ne[ar]
61. [ ] blessed ? …
62. daughter ? …
63. …
64. [ ] …[ ] beloved ?
65. Three holy ones of the world from.... [ ]
66. [ ] shalom he said, in you we trust … [?]
67. Announce him of blood, this is their chariot.
68. Many are those who love the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel
69. Thus said the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel ….[?]
70. prophets. I sent to my people my three shepherds. I will say (?)
71. that I have seen bless[ing]… …. Go say(?)
72. The place for David the servant of the Lord [ ]...[ ] .. [ ]
73. The heaven and the earth, blessed …… [ ]
74. men. Showing steadfast love to thousands …. steadfast love. [ ]
75. Three shepherds went out for Israel … [ ]…
76. If there is a priest, if there are sons of holy ones ....[ ] (priests and kings / princes)
77. Who am I? I am Gabriel …….. [ ]
78. You will rescue them………….. for two [ ] ...[ ]
79. from before of you the three si[g]ns three .. [ ]
80. In three days, live, I Gabriel com[mand] yo(u),
81. prince of the princes, the dung of the rocky crevices [ ]... ..[ ]
82. to the visions (?) … their tongue (?) [ ] … those who love me
83. to me, from the three, the small one that I took, I Gabriel
84. Lord of Hosts Gd of Is[rael] [
85. then you will stand …
86. … /
87. … world ? /

Emphasis added by Alaris I had to replace some brackets with ( ) as the brackets were creating effects if there was an I or an S in them!

Though the text is scattered and difficult to read at times, there are interesting references to the holy ones (patriarchs / archangels,) the Davidic Servant - where he is literal called such - the number 7, and a repeating pattern of the number 3. Michael and Gabriel are both cited - Gabriel in reference to commanding someone to live.

Alaris wrote: ↑January 21st, 2019, 12:11 pm So I don't know how I didn't notice this before, but during my scripture studies over the weekend, I realized that the two witnesses ascend at the end of the sixth trump. Immediately afterward, the seventh trump is sounded. This is super duper relevant, and I don't know how I've missed this!

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded(seventh trump); and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power(D&C 85:7) , and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

I realize this all can get a bit complicated, especially since this is a new paradigm. However, my blog essentially boils down to two main topics - the levels of mankind and the davidic servant.

In a nutshell, there are seven levels of mankind, but here are the relevant levels to this post:

5 - LDS / Ephraim / Law of the Gospel
6 - Priests / 144,000 / Seraphim / Apostles / Law of Chastity
7 - Princes (Kings in the making) / 7 archangles / Patriarchs / Dispensation Heads / Law of Consecration

So I've long held that the Davidic Servant is the head of the order of priests who is becoming a prince, or transitioning fom being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor as Avraham Gileadi beautifully puts it. This is why the language is "shall be" when the Lord speaks of the Davidic Servant becoming a prince forever over Israel (Ezekiel 37) whereas Michael / Adam is already a prince forever over Israel (D&C)

The six-winged seraphim of Isaiah 6 are this same order of priests, which is why my blog is called "Lord of the Seraphim." (See what I did there?) The Lord of the Seraphim, or the Davidic Servant, is "graduating" from being a priest to becoming a prince.

Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD (davidic covenant); and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest (level 6) upon his throne: (level 7) and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

He has taken upon himself great power and has reigned - sitting upon a throne (this phrase, "he that sitteth upon the throne" is ALL OVER the place in Revelation) at the behest of those who hold the power to which he aspires as he is tasting of the powers of the world to come. (Facsimile 3 where Abraham is sitting upon the throne at Pharoah's behest.)

So the fact that the two witnesses ascend (and I've made the case in this article that the Davidic Servant is one of the two witnesses) - and they ascend right at the end of the sixth trumpet, and this accomplishment is heralded as the kingdoms of our world becoming the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ (anointed one / heir,) and immediately the seventh trump sounds, and the ark of the testament is seen in heaven, signaling the fulfillment of Yom Kippur / Day of Atonement - all of this is extremely "coincidental" - coincidental, or extremely affirming of what I already knew to be true.

Here's another recent coincidence I posted elsewhere here regarding a "three nephite" story, although there was only one "nephite" in the story who never identifies himself as such. The six wings of the seraphim are two to conceal the face (identity) and two to conceal feet (location) and two with which to move about (appearing in closed-door rooms.) These are the gifts to the translated beings, who are, not coincidentally, of this order of priests / seraphim. This story read to me like it could have been a mormon legend, but there were two elements that were strong confirmations of these mysteries. I'll quote from the story:

“There were several beautiful sketches drawn by Mr. Edge while in this locality. The one that more particularly attracted my attention was a beautiful arch drawn upon the front leaf of a large Bible, owned by Mr. Sirenous Reed. Directly up the center of this arch were very neatly placed seven steps, on the foot of which was written, beginning at the bottom, the following words: "Virtue, Knowledge, Temperance, Patience, Godliness, Brotherly, Kindness and Charity."

“Just beneath the bow of the arch was placed the figure of a young man who had just climbed this narrow stairway, kneeling upon the top step, receiving a magnificent crown from the hands of an angel.

I about fell out of my chair. 7 steps. A man kneeling upon the 7th step receiving a crown. The bow of the arch. The crown of the High Priest of Israel - Holiness to the Lord. These are the two main topics I've been posting on since May 2017!

There was another amazing confirmation of knowledge in this story where this "nephite" allegedly said he has only ever earned one nail mark.

“In speaking of himself he said: "I am not worthy of but one of the nail prints in my hands."


As Ephraim / LDS (5th level / order of mankind) align to the second sign / token and law of the gospel, the following order of priests would naturally align to the third sign / token in the temple. Think on that for a moment. Perhaps all the high priests / seraphim / are awarded with their first nail print upon overcoming their level. There are 7 additional steps within level 7 as symbolized by Joshua & Jericho where the priests circled Jericho 7 times on the 7th day, and symbolized in Revelation itself with the 7 trumps within the 7th seal. So, by the time a prince becomes a King, he will perhaps have earned 8 prints / marks. Jesus Christ Himself had 8 wounds at the crucifixion.

Circling back to the point of this post. I don't know how I missed the fact that the two witnesses ascend at the end of the sixth trump. What else is symbolized by the number 6? Man was created on the 6th day, and the Davidic Servant is transitioning from being a man to becoming what a man is destined to become. Also, 1/3 part of mankind is destroyed after the sixth trump is sounded. Just some fun things to think about!

The trumps sounded are bringing forth the 3 Woes, which all take place in the 7th seal. The 2 woes sounded by the 5th and 6th Angels are 7th deal events

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑January 21st, 2019, 9:55 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑January 21st, 2019, 12:11 pm So I don't know how I didn't notice this before, but during my scripture studies over the weekend, I realized that the two witnesses ascend at the end of the sixth trump. Immediately afterward, the seventh trump is sounded. This is super duper relevant, and I don't know how I've missed this!

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded(seventh trump); and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power(D&C 85:7) , and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

I realize this all can get a bit complicated, especially since this is a new paradigm. However, my blog essentially boils down to two main topics - the levels of mankind and the davidic servant.

In a nutshell, there are seven levels of mankind, but here are the relevant levels to this post:

5 - LDS / Ephraim / Law of the Gospel
6 - Priests / 144,000 / Seraphim / Apostles / Law of Chastity
7 - Princes (Kings in the making) / 7 archangles / Patriarchs / Dispensation Heads / Law of Consecration

So I've long held that the Davidic Servant is the head of the order of priests who is becoming a prince, or transitioning fom being a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional inheritor as Avraham Gileadi beautifully puts it. This is why the language is "shall be" when the Lord speaks of the Davidic Servant becoming a prince forever over Israel (Ezekiel 37) whereas Michael / Adam is already a prince forever over Israel (D&C)

The six-winged seraphim of Isaiah 6 are this same order of priests, which is why my blog is called "Lord of the Seraphim." (See what I did there?) The Lord of the Seraphim, or the Davidic Servant, is "graduating" from being a priest to becoming a prince.

Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD (davidic covenant); and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest (level 6) upon his throne: (level 7) and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

He has taken upon himself great power and has reigned - sitting upon a throne (this phrase, "he that sitteth upon the throne" is ALL OVER the place in Revelation) at the behest of those who hold the power to which he aspires as he is tasting of the powers of the world to come. (Facsimile 3 where Abraham is sitting upon the throne at Pharoah's behest.)

So the fact that the two witnesses ascend (and I've made the case in this article that the Davidic Servant is one of the two witnesses) - and they ascend right at the end of the sixth trumpet, and this accomplishment is heralded as the kingdoms of our world becoming the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ (anointed one / heir,) and immediately the seventh trump sounds, and the ark of the testament is seen in heaven, signaling the fulfillment of Yom Kippur / Day of Atonement - all of this is extremely "coincidental" - coincidental, or extremely affirming of what I already knew to be true.

Here's another recent coincidence I posted elsewhere here regarding a "three nephite" story, although there was only one "nephite" in the story who never identifies himself as such. The six wings of the seraphim are two to conceal the face (identity) and two to conceal feet (location) and two with which to move about (appearing in closed-door rooms.) These are the gifts to the translated beings, who are, not coincidentally, of this order of priests / seraphim. This story read to me like it could have been a mormon legend, but there were two elements that were strong confirmations of these mysteries. I'll quote from the story:

“There were several beautiful sketches drawn by Mr. Edge while in this locality. The one that more particularly attracted my attention was a beautiful arch drawn upon the front leaf of a large Bible, owned by Mr. Sirenous Reed. Directly up the center of this arch were very neatly placed seven steps, on the foot of which was written, beginning at the bottom, the following words: "Virtue, Knowledge, Temperance, Patience, Godliness, Brotherly, Kindness and Charity."

“Just beneath the bow of the arch was placed the figure of a young man who had just climbed this narrow stairway, kneeling upon the top step, receiving a magnificent crown from the hands of an angel.

I about fell out of my chair. 7 steps. A man kneeling upon the 7th step receiving a crown. The bow of the arch. The crown of the High Priest of Israel - Holiness to the Lord. These are the two main topics I've been posting on since May 2017!

There was another amazing confirmation of knowledge in this story where this "nephite" allegedly said he has only ever earned one nail mark.

“In speaking of himself he said: "I am not worthy of but one of the nail prints in my hands."


As Ephraim / LDS (5th level / order of mankind) align to the second sign / token and law of the gospel, the following order of priests would naturally align to the third sign / token in the temple. Think on that for a moment. Perhaps all the high priests / seraphim / are awarded with their first nail print upon overcoming their level. There are 7 additional steps within level 7 as symbolized by Joshua & Jericho where the priests circled Jericho 7 times on the 7th day, and symbolized in Revelation itself with the 7 trumps within the 7th seal. So, by the time a prince becomes a King, he will perhaps have earned 8 prints / marks. Jesus Christ Himself had 8 wounds at the crucifixion.

Circling back to the point of this post. I don't know how I missed the fact that the two witnesses ascend at the end of the sixth trump. What else is symbolized by the number 6? Man was created on the 6th day, and the Davidic Servant is transitioning from being a man to becoming what a man is destined to become. Also, 1/3 part of mankind is destroyed after the sixth trump is sounded. Just some fun things to think about!

The trumps sounded are bringing forth the 3 Woes, which all take place in the 7th seal. The 2 woes sounded by the 5th and 6th Angels are 7th deal events

First of all - thank you for your comment.

Secondly of all - Yes the 5th, 6th, and 7th trumps are the final woes all within the 7th seal. The 7 within 7 I mentioned in the post above. Still, the fact that the 2 witnesses die, lie dead for 3.5 days, and resurrect, the kingdoms of the world are then declared the kingdoms of the Lord and His Christ - *shakes NIGHTLIGHT* Don't you see!? This is the Davidic Servant receiving his kingdom that's promised in Ezekiel 37 and literally all over the place in the OT:

Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

The one who fulfills the Davidic Covenant:

Zechariah 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

We know that Jesus doesn't build the temple of the Lord, right? This is absolutely the Davidic Servant ^^^

Amos 9:11 ¶ In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
...
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

We know from D&C 113 that the rod is not Jesus Christ. Are you feeling me yet here NIGHTLIGHT? This isn't just some prophet. There are scriptures all over the place about him. In 3 Nephi 20, Jesus Himself quotes His own prophet, Isaiah, regarding the Davidic Servant to the nephites who would die thousands of years before this guy even shows up. Why? Unless who this man is has eternal significance. Moroni quotes Isaiah 11 to Joseph Smith. This isn't just some prophet - here are some patterns of repeated phrases in regards to the Davidic Servant:

Build the temple, Bear the glory, rule upon a throne, judge the poor, reprove with equity for the meek of the earth, on whom there is laid much power, the arm of the Lord (Isaiah 51:9) judgement, judgment, judgement, righteousness, righteousness, righteousness repeated over and over.

D&C 85:6 Yea, thus saith the still small voice, which whispereth through and pierceth all things, and often times it maketh my bones to quake while it maketh manifest, saying:
7 And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;(judgement, righteousness (clothed with light) & power)

.... and this happens at the very end of the 6th trump and fires off the 7th - that signifies / symbolizes the Davidic Servant's ascend from a level 6 priest to becoming one of the princes, with Michael as chief prince. This is not yet another coincidence that coincidentally reinforces who this man is on his eternal progression. Remember the message from the Lord to the 6th angel - there's that number 6 again - not a coincidence. God made man on the 6th day. This is a man leaving the order of his creation (man) and joining the order of holiness (deity - 7 - sabbath, etc.) Have a look at Part IV in this article where I break down that message:

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... rvant.html

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

John worships the angel who delivers the Revelation - twice! He literally witnesses the angels ascension & his transition from being a priest (man) to becoming a prince (God.) - and he watches this all play out and worships the angel near the end of the Revelation - of which we only have a partial account.

D&C 93:18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John.

Zechariah 6:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Sadly, I can no longer edit the original post as I would like to add links to thread that support the truth that the Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost. Over the last weeks, I have been logging my experience reading 3 Enoch, which has been an incredible experience that underscores many of the conclusions I have reached by connecting the dots of our standard works to 1 Enoch and The Apocalypse of Abraham. The reason I started looking at 3 Enoch is given at the beginning of the thread:

/viewtopic.php?t=50868

I still need to finish reading 3 Enoch, but what an incredible experience that has been so far. I took a break to write about the alignment of the seven days of creation to the seven levels of mankind.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... art-i.html

The article on the sixth day is the most relevant to this thread, as that is the day in which man is created which aligns to the 6th order of mankind - the order from whence comes the Davidic Servant.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... rt-iv.html

The alignment from the sixth day to the sixth level of mankind reinforces the fact that the two witnesses die, remain dead 3.5 days, and resurrect just before the seventh trump by the seventh angel and "great voices in heaven" proclaim:

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

So, the actions during the sixth trump secure the kingdoms of the world to the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ.

Another thread I started that became relevant quickly to this thread: "Could we lose the Melchizedek Priesthood?"

I was pondering on the recent hysteria over the changes to the temple endowment and how many members fall back to the potential misconception that the Lord would never lead the church astray. As I often try to expand the limits of my thinking, paradigms, and potentially false assumptions, I wondered if the Lord may deliberately change the dynamics of our Priesthood, leadership, etc. whether due to our wickedness or due to the changing times and seasons.

I remembered the promise given by John the Baptist to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery: "and this (Priesthood of Aaron) shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness." Was such a promise ever given in regards to the Melchizedek Priesthood? I have come to understand that the time and season of the gospel to the gentiles has been one of level five beings who are tasting of the power of the world to come in the Melchizedek Priesthood. Clearly, we have not had the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood. Statements by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young confirm this (see thread above.)

Apologies as this lead-in is overlong. Suffice it to say, that fellow forum member BruceRGilbert shared a link to the notes taken by several people of a sermon Joseph Smith gave in 1843 regarding the orders of Priesthood. As I read these notes, I found a quote I've used countless times in attempting to awaken folks to the idea that the Holy Ghost is a step on the path to Godhood - just as becoming a Savior is a step. The full context of that quote was a phenomenal discovery for me as it ties directly into Joseph Smith's sermon: Elias, Elijah, Messiah.

In both of these sermons, Joseph teaches of three divisions of power. In the 1843 sermon, they are the three Priesthoods. In the 1844 sermon, he equates the powers to Elias, Elijah, and Messiah. Incredibly, he drops a truth bomb in both sermons that links the Holy Ghost to the Davidic Servant. In 1843, Joseph Smith taught:

2 Abrahams Patriarchal power which is the greatest yet experienced in this church. 3d That of Melchisedec who had still greater power even power of an endless life of which was our Lord Jesus Christ which also Abraham obtained by the offering of his son Isaac which was not the power of a Prophet nor apostle nor Patriarch only but of King & Priest to God to open the windows of Heaven and pour out the peace & Law of endless Life to man & No man can attain to the Joint heirship with Jesus Christ with out being administered to by one having the same power & Authority of Melchisedec Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.

WHY HAS NOBODY EVER INCLUDED THE FULL CONTEXT OF THIS QUOTE!!!!!! >:( (Except for you BruceRGilbert. You're cool)

... *ahem* sorry .... passion

Abraham's patriarchal power is the greatest yet experienced in this church (*whispers* our church) - He then speaks of Abraham receiving the Melchizedek power later and says no man can receive this last power without being administered to by one having the same power & authority of Melchizedek.

He then mentions the joint heirship with Jesus Christ that is obtained by someone who is of Melchizedek's level ... and then ...

...then, Joseph says, by the way ... the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has

Totally irrelevant side comment right? WRONG

Now, let's fast forward to 1844, just a few months before the martyrdom.

Now for Elijah. The spirit, power, and calling of Elijah is, that ye have power to hold the key of the revelation, ordinances, oracles, powers and endowments of the fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood and of the kingdom of God on the earth; and to receive, obtain, and perform all the ordinances belonging to the kingdom of God, even unto the turning of the hearts of the fathers unto the children, and the hearts of the children unto the fathers, even those who are in heaven.
...
Although David was a king, he never did obtain the spirit and power of Elijah and the fullness of the Priesthood; and the Priesthood that he received, and the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage.

So again, we have three divisions of power, and while speaking of King David never receiving the fullness of the Priesthood, he says the Priesthood he did receive, and the throne, and the kingdom of David is to be given to the Latter-day David. This is another quote that gets chopped up sadly. The full context is SO important because Joseph Smith was teaching about receiving the fullness of the Priesthood - so when he says, "By the way King David never did receive this" which clearly suggests this was a part of his failure (read earlier paragraphs as well.) So, even though King David failed, this latter-day King David will succeed and receive the fullness of the Priesthood. Which Priesthood? Well, I won't go into any more detail as this is big enough of a truth bomb as to allow to settle, but I will say that even where the Holy Ghost is on this ascension is clear when these two sermons are compared to each other. I hope you the reader will feel prompted to study both.

One last tid bit: For those of you who can't get passed the Saviorship and Divine Sonship of Jesus Christ being a step on the path to godhood, consider the last statement in the Elias, Elijah, Messiah sermon:

There are some important things concerning the office of the Messiah in the organization of the world. which I will speak of hereafter, May God Almighty bless you and pour out His Spirit upon you, is the prayer of your unworthy servant. Amen.

It's time to rip the super glue off the old eyeballs folks.

I don't think the Lord's end-time servant - Davidic servant is the Holy Ghost at all,
I think the Holy Ghost is exactly what the scriptures say it is - the Lord's spirit - that we can have with us.

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Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36

2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


D&C 20

79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.



and as I've said before:

2 Nephi 32
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear MY VOICE, and open the door, I WILL COME IN TO HIM, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20)

"I" will come in to him" - WHO - is "I" - Jesus Christ's spirit - the Holy Ghost.
-------------------
Matthew 18:20 ...'For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.'

John 14:16-20 ...'And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.'

Acts 1:1-2 ...'The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which he was taken up, after that
HE through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen.'

"Now, many people look at this 'comforter' quote in John above and just automatically think that Jesus was talking about sending someone else. And yet Jesus reveals in these verses exactly who the comforter was going to be.
Jesus told the disciples that they knew the comforter, because He was actually with them in physical form. Who was with them? Christ Himself! Jesus told the disciples that He would not leave us comfortless,
HE would come to us HIMSELF!
And Jesus also confirmed that HE would be the one inside us,
not someone else!

Eh....haven't we been through this several times already? If you can read through john 14 - 16 and conclude Jesus is talking about Himself....and ignore the obvious parallels to not only the Davidic Servant but to the rod of Isaiah...


And ignore the many quotes of Joseph Smith saying the Holy Ghost is a he and he is on the path to becoming a Savior.....well I can't see it for you friend

Edit:

The possessive "my" Spirit is due to the Lord Jesus Christ requiring an heir of His own before He can become a Father. Jesus Christ is begotten in the flesh, and the Holy Ghost is begotten in the Spirit imho - hence Revelation 12 and the birth motif throughout Isaiah and Revelation.

I served my mission in Texas where just about everyone I spoke to believed the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were one being. My favorite scripture to counter this was, coincidentally, John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Let's convert this into the incomprehensible 3-1 trinity.


26 But me, which is me, whom I will send in my name, I shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Huh? OK Let's now see if we can obliviate the Holy Ghost


26 But the Comforter, which is me, whom the Father will send in my name, I shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Huh?

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Verses 13 and 14 rid any notion of this being the same person. He shall not speak of himself but glorify me. Got it - separate individual. A man. A person. Not an "it"

1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge: after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness: shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity: for the meek of the earth:: and he shall smite: the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay: the wicked.:
5 And righteousness: shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.


Let's we forget, the rod is a person who is not Jesus Christ.

D&C 113:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Servant? That word is used throughout Isaiah and 3 Nephi where the Lord speaks of His servant. I'm pretty sure this is all in this thread already. Perhaps reread through this thread - or read if you haven't already. As you read, you'll see this thread has some pretty deep discussions regarding the servant, the angel of the Lord, and the Holy Ghost. There are many, many evidences.

Alaris, the D&C verse (113:3) states that he will be partly from Jesse and partly from Ephraim through the house of Joseph.

What does this tell us of his current nationality? Or is it too nonspecific to really gain anything from this verse?

LDS Physician wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:07 am Alaris, the D&C verse (113:3) states that he will be partly from Jesse and partly from Ephraim through the house of Joseph.

What does this tell us of his current nationality? Or is it too nonspecific to really gain anything from this verse?

To me, this clearly means he will have both birthrights - the birthright of Ephraim who is the birthright tribe, and the right to rule from Jesse / Judah. I believe "Shiloh" which may mean "He whose right it is to rule" may actually be the Davidic Servant and not Jesus Christ. Ezekiel 37 is a great read - the whole chapter is about the servant imho - the resurrection, the stick of Ephraim and Judah, and well the final verses which speak of the servant David becoming a prince forever over Israel.

Likely, the Davidic Servant will have a clear Ephraim lineage through one parent and a Judah / Jewish connection through another. I've heard conflicting information on which parent would / should contain the line of Jesse. Jesus received that through his mother, so I suspect it will be the same.

Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

The second half of that verse is pretty clear - compare to all the servant songs in Isaiah where the servant is tied to the Gathering of Israel - which President Nelson says is the most important mission of our youth.

Alaris wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:37 am

LDS Physician wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:07 am Alaris, the D&C verse (113:3) states that he will be partly from Jesse and partly from Ephraim through the house of Joseph.

What does this tell us of his current nationality? Or is it too nonspecific to really gain anything from this verse?

To me, this clearly means he will have both birthrights - the birthright of Ephraim who is the birthright tribe, and the right to rule from Jesse / Judah. I believe "Shiloh" which may mean "He whose right it is to rule" may actually be the Davidic Servant and not Jesus Christ. Ezekiel 37 is a great read - the whole chapter is about the servant imho - the resurrection, the stick of Ephraim and Judah, and well the final verses which speak of the servant David becoming a prince forever over Israel.

Likely, the Davidic Servant will have a clear Ephraim lineage through one parent and a Judah / Jewish connection through another. I've heard conflicting information on which parent would / should contain the line of Jesse. Jesus received that through his mother, so I suspect it will be the same.

Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

The second half of that verse is pretty clear - compare to all the servant songs in Isaiah where the servant is tied to the Gathering of Israel - which President Nelson says is the most important mission of our youth.

Thanks for that.

Do you feel this man will present to the Jewish nation as opposed to the Gentiles (America)?

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Based off this scripture, we can see there is one kingdom over all the tribes of Israel. There will be two Jerusalem but one king. The law comes from New Jerusalem so I suspect that is where the throne will be.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

I honestly don't know if the light to the gentiles is meant as in the holy ghost touches upon the gentiles to lure then towards conversion. Perhaps it's a double meaning. Got to go

Who is the Davidic servant spoken of in the scriptures?
https://askgramps.org/who-is-the-davidi ... criptures/


Psalms: Foretells of Future Davidic King & Zion

LDS Physician wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 7:31 pm

Alaris wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:37 am

LDS Physician wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:07 am Alaris, the D&C verse (113:3) states that he will be partly from Jesse and partly from Ephraim through the house of Joseph.

What does this tell us of his current nationality? Or is it too nonspecific to really gain anything from this verse?

To me, this clearly means he will have both birthrights - the birthright of Ephraim who is the birthright tribe, and the right to rule from Jesse / Judah. I believe "Shiloh" which may mean "He whose right it is to rule" may actually be the Davidic Servant and not Jesus Christ. Ezekiel 37 is a great read - the whole chapter is about the servant imho - the resurrection, the stick of Ephraim and Judah, and well the final verses which speak of the servant David becoming a prince forever over Israel.

Likely, the Davidic Servant will have a clear Ephraim lineage through one parent and a Judah / Jewish connection through another. I've heard conflicting information on which parent would / should contain the line of Jesse. Jesus received that through his mother, so I suspect it will be the same.

Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

The second half of that verse is pretty clear - compare to all the servant songs in Isaiah where the servant is tied to the Gathering of Israel - which President Nelson says is the most important mission of our youth.

Thanks for that.

Do you feel this man will present to the Jewish nation as opposed to the Gentiles (America)?

I recommend checking out righteousrepublic's links above. I've seen that psalms video before and it is excellent. The askgramps link also points to the possibility of some of what I discuss below. Also, consider Ezra's Eagle prophecy when the Lion nation shows up amidst the three-headed eagle nation that is obviously in decline / turmoil. To me, this indicates the Kingdom of Israel may begin here in the USA. The capitol is here, so there's that.

To add to my response above, I am still trying to piece together what happens when. I have found that looking at why and who helps paint a broad picture that begin to fill in the details of when, where, and how. The problem is, the vast majority of folks only look at the when, where, and how in studying the end times events. And, of course, that makes perfect sense as to why folks do that.

An example of this unfolding that comes to mind is the most recent articles I've been writing on the days of creation and how the end times events are linked symbolically to the days of creation, the dispensations, the patriarch, and the laws of God. Once you realize these things are unfolding in order, then it's easier to piece together when.

For a specific example, consider the sixth day of creation aligns to to the creation of man and the granting of dominion.

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... v.html?m=1

This aligns to the sixth order of mankind, the seraphim, who coincidentally have six wings, and are introduced coincidentally in Isaiah chapter 6 (even though this chapter is first sequentially in Isaiah,) etc. - After the sixth trump is sounded, the events unfold where the Davidic Servant - who is chief of this order imho - transitions from being a conditional servant to an unconditional inheritor - and his dominion is secured which points back to the sixth day of creation! The seventh trump is sounded (D&C identifies the seventh angel as Michael) and the kingdoms of this world are declared as the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


The ark is seen in heaven in the final verse of this chapter which indicates the fulfillment of Yom Kippur - those Fall festivals that align to the months that align to the Aaronic Priesthood / Western towers of the SLC temple. The Spring festivals align to the Melchizedek towers. So, the lesser God fulfilling Yom Kippur in the fall festivals makes perfect sense. The symbols that point to why things happen and in what order, etc. help inform on sequence. Take this next scripture. Joseph Smith refers to these scriptures when he points to Adam's return to Adam-Ondi-Ahman. All of the above help plug in sequence of events:

Daniel 7:9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

OK, so the thrones being cast down align to Revelation 11:15 where the seventh trump is sounded by the Ancient of Days and the declaration is made that the kingdoms of this world are subjugated and given unto the Lord and His Christ. Now, given all of this, the identity of the "one like the Son of man" in verse 13 is now clear. This is the Holy Ghost and not Jesus Christ as 99.99 percent of Christianity believes. Notice how the one like the Son of Man is brought to Adam - that's another clue. Jesus would not be brought before Adam. Adam would be brought before Jesus. But Adam, having a higher authority than the Holy Ghost, would have the Holy Ghost brought to him where Adam gives the Holy Ghost dominion, glory, and a kingdom - an everlasting dominion (compare to Ezekiel 37 where the Davidic Servant is given an everlasting dominion over Israel.) And that's the second clue -Adam would not give Jesus dominion. The more you think about this the more it makes sense. The two witnesses partake of the baptism with which Jesus was baptized when they are martyred for their testimony, are dead for 3.5 days, and ascend to heaven. Having just ascended to heaven, the servant is brought to Adam to receive his dominion - a probation that was sealed by his ministry, death and resurrection just as Jesus' new dominion was sealed by his ministry, death, and resurrection.

Unfortunately, this seems to indicate that the Davidic Servant dies just before the millennium, and I know that conflicts with that time and seasons article I quote in my "Introduction to the Davidic Servant thread" where the prophet & John Taylor publish their collective belief that the Latter-day King David will rule mortally under the reign of Jesus Christ during the millennium. However, the Davidic Servant's martyrdom being the final piece to end the telestial condition of Earth to usher in the Terrestrial Millennium makes a lot of sense.

The one wearing red who comes in the clouds of heaven is most likely the Davidic Servant as well. The red represents judgement, blood, and destruction - all the roles of the Lesser Priesthood and the Lesser God of Israel. Trodding the wine-press alone may point all the way back to Abraham where the Angel of the Lord slays the Lord's enemies from the Exodus to the 185,000 Assyrians all the way up to the end times. Another "coincidence" is the fall festivals have deep symbols of grape harvest and wine. OK Not a coincidence.

Amos 9:11 ¶ In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this.

13 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.

Edit:

Re-reading through Revelation 9 where the sixth trumpet is sounded. Coincidentally, this is when 1/3 part of mankind is killed. Oh, and there are four angels that are loosed by the sixth angel.

Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Bonus feature - Horus had four sons:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... -part.html

Alaris wrote: The one wearing red who comes in the clouds of heaven is most likely the Davidic Servant as well.

D&C 133
46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?
47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.
48 And the Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat.
49 And so great shall be the glory of his presence that the sun shall hide his face in shame, and the moon shall withhold its light, and the stars shall be hurled from their places.
50 And his voice shall be heard: I have trodden the wine-press alone, and have brought judgment upon all people; and none were with me;

Isaiah 63
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Rev. 19:13 (11–15)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


It is the Lord, Jesus Christ that comes down in the clouds wearing red apparel.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 3:21 pm

Alaris wrote: The one wearing red who comes in the clouds of heaven is most likely the Davidic Servant as well.

D&C 133
46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?
47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.
48 And the Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat.
49 And so great shall be the glory of his presence that the sun shall hide his face in shame, and the moon shall withhold its light, and the stars shall be hurled from their places.
50 And his voice shall be heard: I have trodden the wine-press alone, and have brought judgment upon all people; and none were with me;

Isaiah 63
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Rev. 19:13 (11–15)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

It is the Lord, Jesus Christ that comes down in the clouds wearing red apparel.

Might could be - you are far from alone in your conclusion. I, on the other hand -

Consider judgement and destruction are the roles of the lesser Priesthood.

The law was given under Aaron for the purpose of pouring out Judments and destructions. ~ Joseph Smith

So, would it be fair to say that the Lesser God - The Holy Ghost - to whom points the office of High Priest of Israel of the Aaronic Priesthood - might it be his role to pour out judgment and destruction which is clearly the symbol of the winepress and red vestment where the grape juice is spelled out as the blood of the wicked?

In any of the scriptures above, why not just come out and say, "This is Jesus Christ" ? The winepress is a motif that ties clearly to the unfulfilled fall festivals - Pentecost (obvious Holy Ghost link) is the beginning of the grape harvest iirc, and tabernacles is the end (again iirc.) There are other clues that have been hiding in plain sight. Earlier in Revelation 19:

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Who is "he?" Who judged the whore? Let's find out. Notice how cleverly this is hidden:

D&C 88:94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.

95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.

97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—

98 They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.

So the same angel who calls forth the first resurrection is the same who sounds the trump both long and loud regarding the impending judgement of the whore of babylon.

Now, is it an angel or Jesus who treads the winepress and gets all that grape juice (blood) all over his vestment?

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Hrm ... remember that gramps article suggest that this end times King David shows up at the battle of Armageddon. I'm sure there's a lot of grapce juice there waiting to be spilt.

Here's that angel again from D&C 88 (imho)

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


I'm telling you good righteousrepublic, the Book of Revelation is not about Jesus receiving power and a kingdom - he's already inherited all. This story is about a man becoming a God - purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ (which may be another symbol of the vestment.) So keep verse 21 above in mind. This is what happens next:

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

So the angel who delivers the message to John is immediately worshiped by 93 year old John (John who knows the gospel better than you and me combined and saw a full vision of which we've only received an encoded portion). Why? Because John just witnessed this man become a God in the future. The marriage supper of the Lamb is Ezekiel 37 coming to pass where the servant David receives his kingdom over Israel forever.

If you can suspend your disbelief for a moment and consider the above is true - hold on to that thought while you reread this verse:

D&C 133
46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?

It shall be said by whom? Might there be many LDS included who all have believed the Lord wearing red is Jesus Christ?

Consider "righteousness" and "judgement" are the most commonly used key words used to describe this inheritor. Consider judgement is given to the 12 apostles, and that one of them just may be one who is ascending from their order to receive the fullness of the Priesthood.

47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.

Whoops - "mighty" is also a key word (D&C 85:7, Isaiah 28)

Alaris wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 4:05 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 3:21 pm

Alaris wrote: The one wearing red who comes in the clouds of heaven is most likely the Davidic Servant as well.

D&C 133
46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?
47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.
48 And the Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat.
49 And so great shall be the glory of his presence that the sun shall hide his face in shame, and the moon shall withhold its light, and the stars shall be hurled from their places.
50 And his voice shall be heard: I have trodden the wine-press alone, and have brought judgment upon all people; and none were with me;

Isaiah 63
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Rev. 19:13 (11–15)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

It is the Lord, Jesus Christ that comes down in the clouds wearing red apparel.

Might could be - you are far from alone in your conclusion. I, on the other hand -

Consider judgement and destruction are the roles of the lesser Priesthood.

The law was given under Aaron for the purpose of pouring out Judments and destructions. ~ Joseph Smith

Why not just come out and say, "This is Jesus Christ." in any of the scriptures above? The winepress is a motif that ties clearly to the unfulfilled fall festivals - Pentecost (obvious Holy Ghost link) is the beginning of the grape harvest iirc, and tabernacles is the end (again iirc.) There are other clues that have been hiding in plain sight. Earlier in Revelation 19:

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Who is "he?" Who judged the whore? Let's find out. Notice how cleverly this is hidden:

D&C 88:94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.

95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him.

97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven—

98 They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God.

So the same angel who calls forth the first resurrection is the same who sounds the trump both long and loud regarding the impending judgement of the whore of babylon.

Now, is it an angel or Jesus who treads the winepress and gets all that grape juice (blood) all over his vestment?

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Hrm ... remember that gramps article suggest that this end times King David shows up at the battle of Armageddon. I'm sure there's a lot of grapce juice there waiting to be spilt.

Here's that angel again from D&C 88 (imho)

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


I'm telling you good righteousrepublic, the Book of Revelation is not about Jesus receiving power and a kingdom - he's already inherited all. This story is about a man becoming a God - purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ. So keep verse 21 above in mind. This is what happens next:

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

So the angel who delivers the message to John is immediately worshiped by 93 year old John (John who knows the gospel better than you and me combined and saw a full vision of which we've only received an encoded portion). Why? Because John just witnessed this man become a God in the future. The marriage supper of the Lamb is Ezekiel 37 coming to pass where the servant David receives his kingdom over Israel forever.

If you can suspend your disbelief for a moment and consider the above is true - hold on to that thought while you reread this verse:

D&C 133
46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?

It shall be said by whom? Consider "righteousness" and "judgement" are the most commonly used key words used to describe this inheritor. Consider judgement is given to the 12 apostles, and that one of them just may be one who is ascending from their order to receive the fullness of the Priesthood.

47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.

Whoops - "mighty" is also a key word (D&C 85:7, Isaiah 28)

Rev 19:13 The Word of God is Jehovah/Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten as stated here:

JST, John 1:1, 16
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
16 For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh, and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fullness. And of his fullness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 4:27 pm Rev 19:13 The Word of God is Jehovah/Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten as stated here:

JST, John 1:1, 16
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
16 For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh, and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fullness. And of his fullness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

Come righteousrepublic. Let us reason together. I get what you're saying - my mind went through the same scriptures and I resisted this truth for a long time because traditions - this is the traditional view. However, consider the fact that we sort of lump everything that happened premortally into one basket. If you look forward at the path to Godhood, this is what Jesus Christ's path was in reverse. Consider that while reading this:

Joseph the Seer taught the following principle that the God & father of our Lord Jesus Christ was once the same as the Son or Holy Ghost but having redeemed a world he had a son Jesus Christ who redeemed this earth the same as his father had a world which made them equal & the Holy Ghost would to the same when in his turn & so would all the Saints who inherited a Celestial glory so their would be Gods many & Lords many their were many mansions even 12 from the abode of Devils to the Celestial glory. ~ Wilford Woodruff, Book of Revelations.

So when was Jesus Christ the Word? Or rather, when did he become The Word? In the beginning? Beginning of what? Is the end = to the beginning?

Also, sounds like he's made flesh after he received that title in JST John 1. I hope I can show you how this fits just fine with the "The Word of God" being the Holy Ghost in Revelation 19.

Is the title "Word of God" associated with the Holy Ghost at all or the Davidic Servant? Yes. So, we can't disqualify the Holy Ghost being the Lord wearing red apparel due to that title alone. In fact, the title is linked to the Holy Ghost more often than to Jesus, so from a logical stand point, this points more to the Holy Ghost being the Word of God than Jesus. Have a look see:

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:


The sword and word motif again point towards destruction and judgment. This is why it's so important to look at the why with deep, ponderous thoughts.

D&C 6:2 Behold, I am God; give heed unto my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow; therefore give heed unto my words.

Consider the Angel of the Lord is also called the Mouth of the Lord.

D&C 1:13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

Zechariah 13:7 ¶ Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Consider the above verse may also be why the Holy Ghost is wearing Red. The reason why is the central thesis to this article:

https://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... ation.html

These giant hints are littered all throughout the D&C

D&C 12:2 Behold, I am God; give heed to my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow; therefore, give heed unto my word.

D&C 33:1 Behold, I say unto you, my servants Ezra and Northrop, open ye your ears and hearken to the voice of the Lord your God, whose word is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of the joints and marrow, soul and spirit; and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Angel of the Lord is the voice of the Lord. This grand key is given to Moses in Exodus 4. Consider it was the Angel of the LORD who gave this message to Moses:

Exodus 4:16 And he (Aaron) shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

Aaron's office even points to THE High Priest of the Aaronic Priesthood who is the Lesser God. The Lesser Priesthood is the priesthood of Judgement and Destruction per Joseph Smith.

Consider the man child of revelation:

JST Revelation 12:3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.

Consider 1 Nephi 8, and the iron rod may actually be the voice of the LORD rather than the scriptures - scriptures alone would not have carried Nephi past 1 Nephi 4 where Nephi breaks the "thou shalt not kill" by the voice of the Spirit, or the Word of God.

1 Nephi 11:23 And they said unto me: What meaneth the rod of iron which our father saw, that led to the tree?

24 And I said unto them that it was the word of God; and whoso would hearken unto the word of God, and would hold fast unto it, they would never perish; neither could the temptations and the fiery darts of the adversary overpower them unto blindness, to lead them away to destruction.

Are Revelation 12 and 1 Nephi 11 a coincidence? No.

Again, this truth is all over the place:


D&C 19:15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know

Judgement and Destruction if the role of the Angel of the Lord who is the rod who is the mouth. "The Word of God" is a role that clearly points to the Holy Ghost.

Consider the wedding of the bridegroom is this marriage between the Spirit (Davidic Servant) and Israel that we may always have His spirit to be with us. The only way to proceed beyond this wedding is to accept this new God and enter into this new covenant (Jeremiah 31.) Compare this to the symbol of the iron rod in Lehi's vision - only by it will folks be able to proceed to the tree of life with their families. And by rejecting this crown given to the Holy Ghost and purchased by the blood of Jesus Christ, by rejecting this crown means crucifying the Lord afresh to open shame.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Partakers of the Holy Ghos are tasting the Word of God.

Folks read this stuff all the time and don't realize the deeper implication of what they're reading:

D&C 84:44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

Iron rod / word of God motif again. Here's another example:

D&C 84:74 Verily, verily, I say unto you, they who believe not on your words, and are not baptized in water in my name, for the remission of their sins, that they may receive the Holy Ghost, shall be damned, and shall not come into my Father’s kingdom where my Father and I am.

This kingdom that is given in Revelation - if you do not receive the Holy Ghost as he is crowned at the wedding, of course you cannot progress any further but shall be damned.

Finally, consider this is about how one receives that joint heirship. Both sermons mentioned in the prior page of this thread - one about the three levels of Priesthood power and one about the three roles of Elias, Elijah, Messiah - in both they discuss receiving a fullness of Priesthood power. In one sermon Joseph Smith suddenly says that the Holy Ghost is on this path of joint heirship (fullness of Priesthood power) and will go on to experience the things of the son. In the other, Joseph Smith prophecies that the latter-day King David will receive the throne and kingdom of Israel and a fullness of Priesthood Power. Consider "the word of God" may be a title that signifies that this heirship is secured - the heirship that Jesus Christ had "in the beginning" is it reads in both JST and non-JST John 1.

Jesus Christ's past is the Holy Ghost's future.

Also consider that Jesus Christ cannot become a Father until He has secured a "Word of God" of His own. The Holy Ghost brings souls to Christ and Christ brings souls to the Father.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 4:27 pm Rev 19:13 The Word of God is Jehovah/Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten as stated here:

Alaris wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 6:01 pmLet us reason together.

JST, John 1:1, 16
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
16 For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh, and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fullness. And of his fullness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

This is about as plain as it can ever get. It is plain, concise and needs no more rationalization in its meaning. To do so is called wresting the scriptures.

Was it not you that posted Rev 19:13? And does it not say that the son of man is the Word?

Was not Joseph Smith inspired to correct John 1:1? And does verse 16 not tell us that it is Jesus Christ that is the Word, even the Son?

So, yes, let's reason together.

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 6:35 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 4:27 pm Rev 19:13 The Word of God is Jehovah/Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten as stated here:

Alaris wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 6:01 pmLet us reason together.

JST, John 1:1, 16
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
16 For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh, and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fullness. And of his fullness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

This is about as plain as it can ever get. It is plain, concise and needs no more rationalization in its meaning. To do so is called wresting the scriptures.

Was it not you that posted Rev 19:13? And does it not say that the son of man is the Word?

Was not Joseph Smith inspired to correct John 1:1? And does verse 16 not tell us that it is Jesus Christ that is the Word, even the Son?

So, yes, let's reason together.

Revelation 19:13 does not say the son of man is the Word. I feel like you didn't even read my last post given the questions your posing.

Revelation 19:13 And he is clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


The sharp sword - he shall rule them with a rod of iron - hey wait, that's what Revelation 12 says - even JST Revelation 12:

JST Revelation 12:3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and his throne.

Joseph Smith said Revelation 12 was all future events, so that can't be Mary birthing Jesus.

“The things which John saw had no allusion to the scenes of the days of Adam, Enoch, Abraham or Jesus, only so far as is plainly represented by John, and clearly set forth by him. John saw that only which was lying in FUTURITY and which was SHORTLY TO COME TO PASS.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 289.)

So, well, there you go. I realize prior understandings are difficult things. If you'd like to continue to discuss this, I would be happy to, but if you are going to continue to ask me questions that indicate you're obviously not giving my responses more than a skim, well ... this will no longer be a discussion will it?

Alaris wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 6:56 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 6:35 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 4:27 pm Rev 19:13 The Word of God is Jehovah/Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten as stated here:

Alaris wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 6:01 pmLet us reason together.

JST, John 1:1, 16
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
16 For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh, and sent unto us by the will of the Father. And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fullness. And of his fullness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

This is about as plain as it can ever get. It is plain, concise and needs no more rationalization in its meaning. To do so is called wresting the scriptures.

Was it not you that posted Rev 19:13? And does it not say that the son of man is the Word?

Was not Joseph Smith inspired to correct John 1:1? And does verse 16 not tell us that it is Jesus Christ that is the Word, even the Son?

So, yes, let's reason together.

Revelation 19:13 does not say the son of man is the Word. I feel like you didn't even read my last post given the questions your posing.

Revelation 19:13 And he is clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


The sharp sword - he shall rule them with a rod of iron - hey wait, that's what Revelation 12 says - even JST Revelation 12:

JST Revelation 12:3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and his throne.

Joseph Smith said Revelation 12 was all future events, so that can't be Mary birthing Jesus.

“The things which John saw had no allusion to the scenes of the days of Adam, Enoch, Abraham or Jesus, only so far as is plainly represented by John, and clearly set forth by him. John saw that only which was lying in FUTURITY and which was SHORTLY TO COME TO PASS.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 289.)

So, well, there you go. I realize prior understandings are difficult things. If you'd like to continue to discuss this, I would be happy to, but if you are going to continue to ask me questions that indicate you're obviously not giving my responses more than a skim, well ... this will no longer be a discussion will it?

So, are you hoping that if I or anyone else finally comes to agree with what you teach, then our reasoning power, or what we know to be true, becomes null and void; that our view and knowledge no longer applies, what you teach just has to be accepted no matter what? This is not reasoning together at all.

The word of God is the first born in spirit, even Jehovah, the same Word that created worlds without number. The word of God is also the iron rod as we learn in 1 Nephi. And the word of God is the sword of the spirit: Ephesians 6

15:24 (23–24)
23 And they said unto me: What meaneth the rod of iron which our father saw, that led to the tree?
24 And I said unto them that it was the word of God; and whoso would hearken unto the word of God, and would hold fast unto it, they would never perish; neither could the temptations and the fiery darts of the adversary overpower them unto blindness, to lead them away to destruction.

Moses 1:33
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

The word of God spoken of in Rev 19:13 is the same in all instances and inferences.

Hebrews 11:3
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Helaman 3
29 Yea, we see that whosoever will may lay hold upon the word of God, which is quick and powerful, which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and lead the man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked—

So, yes, let's reason together, shall we?

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 8:49 pm So, yes, let's reason together, shall we?

You keep using that word. I don't think ita means what you think ita means.

I've already addressed how the title "Word of God" can apply to both Jesus and the Holy Ghost, but there are still more scriptures that align the title to the Holy Ghost. If you can see that both the lesser and greater high priests are offices that are held in sequence then perhaps you can consider why the title applies to both. Showing scriptures that indicate Jesus is the Word doesn't take from what I'm saying at all. You however haven't addressed any of the scriptures that point the Word of God to the Holy Ghost. That's OK - I don't expect you or anyone to take my word for this despite what you've humorously attempted to attribute to me in your post above.

Consider this if you can - the Holy Ghost / Davidic Servant's role in the end times has been carefully hiding in plain sight. 99.99 % of Christianity believes that the one wearing red is Jesus Christ. 99.98 % of Christianity believes God, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are all the same entity. Majority of belief does not equal a correct understanding.

I've got quite a bit more to say about this, but I don't think I'll address you any more at this time righteousrepublic - consider that those struggling with the spirit of contention may not be in a place spiritually to be receiving.

Alaris wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 10:15 pm

righteousrepublic wrote: ↑May 9th, 2019, 8:49 pm So, yes, let's reason together, shall we?

You keep using that word. I don't think ita means what you think ita means.

I've already addressed how the title "Word of God" can apply to both Jesus and the Holy Ghost, but there are still more scriptures that align the title to the Holy Ghost. If you can see that both the lesser and greater high priests are offices that are held in sequence then perhaps you can consider why the title applies to both. Showing scriptures that indicate Jesus is the Word doesn't take from what I'm saying at all. You however haven't addressed any of the scriptures that point the Word of God to the Holy Ghost. That's OK - I don't expect you or anyone to take my word for this despite what you've humorously attempted to attribute to me in your post above.

Consider this if you can - the Holy Ghost / Davidic Servant's role in the end times has been carefully hiding in plain sight. 99.99 % of Christianity believes that the one wearing red is Jesus Christ. 99.98 % of Christianity believes God, The Son, and The Holy Ghost are all the same entity. Majority of belief does not equal a correct understanding.

I've got quite a bit more to say about this, but I don't think I'll address you any more at this time righteousrepublic - consider that those struggling with the spirit of contention may not be in a place spiritually to be receiving.

No contention intended on my part, only teaching truth that few can dispute.

The Holy Ghost is a part of the Godhead. His role is to confirm all of God's word unto men, also to inspire those who are righteous so as to guide, direct and preserve.

When Jesus was on the earth the Holy Ghost was not present because the word came directly from Christ. Remember that Jesus told Philip he would ask his Father and that the Father would send another comforter? It was the Holy Ghost Christ was referring to.

John 14
6 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another (a) Comforter, that he may (b) abide with you for ever;

a TG Holy Ghost, Comforter.

b D&C 20:77
77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.


The Holy Ghost cannot be the Davidic Servant.

Doctrine and Covenants 113
1 Who is the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the 1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, and 5th verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?
2 Verily thus saith the Lord: It is Christ.
3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.
5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?
6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.

Matt 1
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18 ¶ Now, as it is written, the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

LDS Physician wrote: ↑May 8th, 2019, 11:07 am Alaris, the D&C verse (113:3) states that he will be partly from Jesse and partly from Ephraim through the house of Joseph.

What does this tell us of his current nationality? Or is it too nonspecific to really gain anything from this verse?

--------------
may I suggest you compare these scriptures (word links)
to see "WHO" "gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things."

These scriptures are all the same person - John - the Beloved - the Davidic King
"Elias - angel from the East - which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things."

D&C 77
9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?
A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.


14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance,
for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

D&C113

5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?

6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse,
as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood,
and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign,
and for the gathering of my people in the last days.

Isaiah 52:15 "sprinkle many nations"
Joseph Smith translated this to be -
"Gather many nation" see JS trans.
Isaiah 52:
14 "As many were astonished at thee;
his visage was so marred more than any man,
and his form more than the sons of men:
15 So shall he sprinkle (JST gather) many nations;
the kings shall shut their mouths at him:
for that which had not been told them shall they see;
and that which they had not heard shall they consider."

Rev. 10
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.


------------------
this below "gathering and restoring Israel" and "you to be a light to the nations"
also substantiates the verses above -
"gathering and restoring Israel" is obvious in the scriptures above.
(also - "to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates) verse 8 at bottom)
"you to be a light to the nations" is shown in Isaiah 52"15 last half,
and Rev.10:11 just above.

Isaiah 49

5 For now Jehovah has said—
he who formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to restore Jacob to him,
Israel having been gathered to him;
for I won honor in the eyes of Jehovah
when my God became my strength—
6 he said: It is too small a thing
for you to be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to restore those preserved of Israel.
I will also appoint you to be a light to the nations,
that my salvation may be to the end of the earth.

A reversal of circumstances takes place for Jehovah’s servant when the trials he endures have served their purpose to purify, perfect, and sanctify him to a higher spiritual level, thereby qualifying him for a new commission. Jacob/Israel’s restoration, to which task he was foreordained (v 1), Jehovah augments with a mission to serve as a light to the “nations” or “Gentiles” (goyim) “to the end of the earth.” From there, Jehovah’s people are to return (Isaiah 41:8-9; 43:5-6), so that all who desire it might participate in Jehovah’s salvation and prepare for Jehovah’s coming as salvation (Isaiah 52:7; 62:11).

Jehovah “appoints” his servant when he “wins honor” in Jehovah’s eyes by proving faithful through trials (v 4), at which time his God becomes his “strength.”
The servant’s physical exploits that follow—subduing nations, releasing captives, leading the new exodus, and rebuilding ruins (Isaiah 9:2-5; 11:10-16; 41:2-3, 25; 45:1-3, 13; 48:14; 61:1-4)—should thus be seen in the context of an ascent phase of divine empowerment that follows his descent phase through afflictions as he fulfills his role of proxy savior to the Jacob/Israel category of Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant.

7 Thus says Jehovah,
the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel,
to him who is despised as a person,
who is abhorred by his nation,
a servant to those in authority:
Kings shall rise up when they see you,
princes shall prostrate themselves,
because Jehovah keeps faith with you,
because the Holy One of Israel has chosen you.

Although Jehovah’s servant is at first “despised as a person” and “abhorred by his nation” as his own reject him, Jehovah exalts him in the eyes of those who see him as a threat to their authority.
Jehovah rewards his servant’s faithfulness toward him in the face of opposition with his own acts of faithfulness toward his servant. Henceforth, as the servant begins the temporal phase of Jacob/Israel’s restoration, he becomes prominent worldwide (Isaiah 11:10-12; 52:15; 55:5).
Kings and princes now honor him who was dishonored and assist in the restoration of Jehovah’s people (vv 22-23; Isaiah 60:3-11).

8 Thus says Jehovah:
At a favorable time I have answered you;
in the day of salvation I have come to your aid:
I have created you and appointed you
to be a covenant of the people,
to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates,
9 to say to the captives, Come forth!
and to those in darkness, Show yourselves!
They shall feed along the way
and find pasture on all barren heights;

The servant’s reversal of circumstances portends a reversal of circumstances for Jehovah’s elect. As Jehovah empowers his servant, so the servant empowers them (Isaiah 61:1-5). Both follow the same pattern of loyalty to Jehovah: “Your faithfulness in time [of trial] shall prove to be a strength, your wisdom and knowledge your salvation” (Isaiah 33:6). The “favorable time” in which Jehovah answers his servant’s intercession on behalf of his people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant coincides with the “day of salvation”—Jehovah’s Day of Judgment that precedes his coming to the earth.

Jehovah’s “creating” or re-creating and “appointing” his servant as a covenant to his people (cf. Isaiah 42:6) denotes his ascent to the seraph level and his role as mediator of Jehovah’s covenant. After freeing the spiritual captives of Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 42:7)—those who were blind and deaf on account of their idolatries (Isaiah 42:17-20)—the servant frees them physically (vv 24-25; Isaiah 45:13). Those who were subject to physical darkness—to the king of Assyria/Babylon—the servant appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near (v 8; Isaiah 52:7; 58:8, 12).

I guess we all have our "precepts of men."

Lets listen to the words from Jesus Christ Himself
and others from our scriptures.
God is
1. The Father
2. The Son
3. The Holy Ghost
and is ONE GOD.

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.


The Book of Ether
Chapter 4

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ;
for I am he who speaketh.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken, him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record. For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me—that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold,
I am the Father,
I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.



2 Nephi 32
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

3 Nephi 11
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me;
for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.


Mormon 7:7

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.


Doctrine and Covenants 20:28,

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God,
infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.



The Book of Ether
Chapter 3

1 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared, (now the number of the vessels which had been prepared was eight) went forth unto the mount, which they called the mount Shelem, because of its exceeding height, and did molten out of a rock sixteen small stones; and they were white and clear, even as transparent glass; and he did carry them in his hands upon the top of the mount, and cried again unto the Lord, saying:

2 O Lord, thou hast said that we must be encompassed about by the floods. Now behold, O Lord, and do not be angry with thy servant because of his weakness before thee; for we know that thou art holy and dwellest in the heavens, and that we are unworthy before thee; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually; nevertheless, O Lord, thou hast given us a commandment that we must call upon thee, that from thee we may receive according to our desires.

3 Behold, O Lord, thou hast smitten us because of our iniquity, and hast driven us forth, and for these many years we have been in the wilderness; nevertheless, thou hast been merciful unto us. O Lord, look upon me in pity, and turn away thine anger from this thy people, and suffer not that they shall go forth across this raging deep in darkness; but behold these things which I have molten out of the rock.

4 And I know, O Lord, that thou hast all power, and can do whatsoever thou wilt for the benefit of man; therefore touch these stones, O Lord, with thy finger, and prepare them that they may shine forth in darkness; and they shall shine forth unto us in the vessels which we have prepared, that we may have light while we shall cross the sea.

5 Behold, O Lord, thou canst do this. We know that thou art able to show forth great power, which looks small unto the understanding of men.

6 And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with fear.

7 And the Lord saw that the brother of Jared had fallen to the earth; and the Lord said unto him: Arise, why hast thou fallen?

8 And he saith unto the Lord: I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me; for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood.

9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?

10 And he answered: Nay; Lord, show thyself unto me.

11 And the Lord said unto him: Believest thou the words which I shall speak?

12 And he answered: Yea, Lord, I know that thou speakest the truth, for thou art a God of truth, and canst not lie.

13 And when he had said these words, behold, the Lord showed himself unto him, and said: Because thou knowest these things ye are redeemed from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you.

14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

15 And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.


3 Nephi 18

11 And this shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.

7 And this shall ye do in remembrance of my body, which I have shown unto you. And it shall be a testimony unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.


"my spirit" in the scriptures below sure sound like the Holy Ghost to me.

Doctrine and Covenants
Section 36

2 And I will lay my hand upon you by the hand of my servant Sidney Rigdon,
and you shall receive my Spirit, the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which shall teach you the peaceable things of the kingdom;


D&C 11

11 For, behold, it is I that speak; behold, I am the light which shineth in darkness, and by my power I give these words unto thee.

12 And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit.

13 Verily, verily, I say unto you, I will impart unto you of my Spirit, which shall enlighten your mind, which shall fill your soul with joy;

21 Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my Spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men.

22 But now hold your peace; study my word which hath gone forth among the children of men, and also study my word which shall come forth among the children of men, or that which is now translating, yea, until you have obtained all which I shall grant unto the children of men in this generation, and then shall all things be added thereto.

23 Behold thou art Hyrum, my son; seek the kingdom of God, and all things shall be added according to that which is just.

24 Build upon my rock, which is my gospel;

25 Deny not the spirit of revelation, nor the spirit of prophecy, for wo unto him that denieth these things;

D&C 112
22 Inasmuch as they shall humble themselves before me, and abide in my word, and hearken to the voice of my Spirit.

Daniel 3:25
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Abraham 3:27
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

Revelation 14:14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Revelation 1:13
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Hebrews 7:3
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Now compare the next verse and see if the word "like" denotes the same as the verses above.

Daniel 7:13
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
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In Daniel 3:25 we know the fourth man was Jesus
In Abraham 3:27 we know it was Jehovah, he being the Son of Man going by the name of Jesus
In Revelation 14:14 we know it is Jesus Christ/Jehovah
In Revelation 1:13 it is Jesus Christ
In Hebrews 7:3 it is the Son of God, even Jehovah/Christ
In Daniel 7:13, as in all the other verses, I believe, the word "like" is referring to Jesus Christ, thus it is Jesus who comes down and the Ancient of days, Adam One, is brought fourth to speak with Adam Two. See: 1 Corinthians 15:45