What are your thoughts on Easter?

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Thinker
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Re: What are your thoughts on Easter?

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buffalo_girl wrote: April 18th, 2022, 12:11 pm…Another witness of the Resurrected Christ is depicted in a painting by Russian painter, Mikhail Nesterov, from the early 1900's. The People of far northern Russia near the White Sea across from Finland tell of Christ appearing to their ancestors.
Image
I like that painting.
When I see halos like that, it reminds me of some old Christian writings that suggest extensive “study of the soul.”

I wonder if we took that study as seriously as the study of the body, what would we discover? How might it help us see & live better?

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Re: What are your thoughts on Easter?

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Niemand wrote: April 19th, 2022, 5:01 am...Viracocha sounds like a vision of Christ to the South Americans, with some inevitable pagan corruption…

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Viracocha was one of the most important deities in the Inca pantheon and seen as the creator of all things, or the substance from which all things are created, and intimately associated with the sea.[2]

... He was represented as wearing the sun for a crown, with thunderbolts in his hands, and tears descending from his eyes as rain…

According to a myth recorded by Juan de Betanzos,[5] Viracocha rose from Lake Titicaca (or sometimes the cave of Paqariq Tampu) during the time of darkness to bring forth light.[6] He made the sun, moon, and the stars. He made mankind by breathing into stones, but his first creation were brainless giants that displeased him. So, he destroyed them with a flood and made humans, beings who were better than the giants, from smaller stones. After creating them, they were scattered all over the world.[7]

Viracocha eventually disappeared across the Pacific Ocean (by walking on the water), and never returned. He wandered the earth disguised as a beggar, teaching his new creations the basics of civilization, as well as working numerous miracles.

… Gamboa wrote that Viracocha was described as "a man of medium height, white and dressed in a white robe like an alb secured round the waist and that he carried a staff and a book in his hands."

In one legend he had one son, Inti, and two daughters, Mama Killa and Pachamama. In this legend, he destroyed the people around Lake Titicaca with a Great Flood called Unu Pachakuti, lasting 60 days and 60 nights, saving two to bring civilization to the rest of the world. … two founded the Inca civilization carrying a golden staff, called 'tapac-yauri'. In another legend, he fathered the first eight civilized human beings.

… they walked away across the water until they disappeared. The word "Viracocha" literally means "Sea Foam."[9]

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The first Spanish chroniclers from the 16th century made no mention of any identification with Viracocha. The first to do so was Pedro Cieza de León in 1553.[13] Similar accounts by Spanish chroniclers (e.g. Juan de Betanzos) describe Viracocha as a "white god", often with a beard.[14] The whiteness of Viracocha is however not mentioned in the native authentic legends of the Incas and most modern scholars therefore had considered the "white god" story to be a post-conquest Spanish invention.[15]

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…The decision to use the term "God" in place of "Viracocha" is seen as the first step in the evangelization of the Incas…
Interesting.
There are various possibilities & perspectives. It seems, as pointed out, that the idea of a white God was implanted by the Spaniards - maybe in an attempt to ease conquering. Though Vikings are theorized to have gone down to Mexico or South America - but timing may be off.

Generally, I favor “likening” scripture ideas to us symbolically, spiritually. Eg., Water/floods/lake/ocean - represent subconscious.

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Niemand
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Re: What are your thoughts on Easter?

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Thinker wrote: April 21st, 2022, 10:20 am
Niemand wrote: April 19th, 2022, 5:01 am...Viracocha sounds like a vision of Christ to the South Americans, with some inevitable pagan corruption…

---

Viracocha was one of the most important deities in the Inca pantheon and seen as the creator of all things, or the substance from which all things are created, and intimately associated with the sea.[2]

... He was represented as wearing the sun for a crown, with thunderbolts in his hands, and tears descending from his eyes as rain…

According to a myth recorded by Juan de Betanzos,[5] Viracocha rose from Lake Titicaca (or sometimes the cave of Paqariq Tampu) during the time of darkness to bring forth light.[6] He made the sun, moon, and the stars. He made mankind by breathing into stones, but his first creation were brainless giants that displeased him. So, he destroyed them with a flood and made humans, beings who were better than the giants, from smaller stones. After creating them, they were scattered all over the world.[7]

Viracocha eventually disappeared across the Pacific Ocean (by walking on the water), and never returned. He wandered the earth disguised as a beggar, teaching his new creations the basics of civilization, as well as working numerous miracles.

… Gamboa wrote that Viracocha was described as "a man of medium height, white and dressed in a white robe like an alb secured round the waist and that he carried a staff and a book in his hands."

In one legend he had one son, Inti, and two daughters, Mama Killa and Pachamama. In this legend, he destroyed the people around Lake Titicaca with a Great Flood called Unu Pachakuti, lasting 60 days and 60 nights, saving two to bring civilization to the rest of the world. … two founded the Inca civilization carrying a golden staff, called 'tapac-yauri'. In another legend, he fathered the first eight civilized human beings.

… they walked away across the water until they disappeared. The word "Viracocha" literally means "Sea Foam."[9]

-------

The first Spanish chroniclers from the 16th century made no mention of any identification with Viracocha. The first to do so was Pedro Cieza de León in 1553.[13] Similar accounts by Spanish chroniclers (e.g. Juan de Betanzos) describe Viracocha as a "white god", often with a beard.[14] The whiteness of Viracocha is however not mentioned in the native authentic legends of the Incas and most modern scholars therefore had considered the "white god" story to be a post-conquest Spanish invention.[15]

----

…The decision to use the term "God" in place of "Viracocha" is seen as the first step in the evangelization of the Incas…
Interesting.
There are various possibilities & perspectives. It seems, as pointed out, that the idea of a white God was implanted by the Spaniards - maybe in an attempt to ease conquering. Though Vikings are theorized to have gone down to Mexico or South America - but timing may be off.

Generally, I favor “likening” scripture ideas to us symbolically, spiritually. Eg., Water/floods/lake/ocean - represent subconscious.
The usual argument is that Catholic priests did it, but I don't buy it. A lot of mythology around the world has common components. Flood myths are found everywhere, as are giants, dwarves, fairy-like creatures and dragons/giant snakes. The common components here are curious - walking on the ocean (rather than the sea - you would think Lake Titicaca would be a better analogue to the inland Sea of Galilee)

I doubt it was the Vikings. They were late arrivals, and I doubt they reached the southern hemisphere.

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Re: What are your thoughts on Easter?

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Niemand wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:35 pmThe usual argument is that Catholic priests did it, but I don't buy it. A lot of mythology around the world has common components. Flood myths are found everywhere, as are giants, dwarves, fairy-like creatures and dragons/giant snakes. The common components here are curious - walking on the ocean (rather than the sea - you would think Lake Titicaca would be a better analogue to the inland Sea of Galilee)

I doubt it was the Vikings. They were late arrivals, and I doubt they reached the southern hemisphere.
It’s fascinating to consider Vikings possibly visiting South America before Columbus - even if most historians don’t think it plausible. Sometimes his-story isn’t accurate. Shocking, I know. ;)

It could be both - Catholic invention (some is known for fact), along with collective unconscious - same general stories inherent in all people regardless of time or place.

(Again)Eg.,

Greek Mythology & Christian similarities:
*Pandora opening box releasing evil, like Eve taking fruit
*Zeus destroyed everything with a great flood - like later Noah story
*Similar wars and battles
*Hades (god of the underworld) in Acts 2:27 is incorrectly associated with hell
*Unicorns are mentioned in Numbers 23:22, Job 39:9-10 & Psalms 92:10
*Brother against brother stories
*Odysseus was a carpenter and acquainted with grief and sorrow, had to hide himself when he returned home.
*Similar emphasis on #s: 3 Fates, Cronus overthrown by 3 sons... Bible: 3 wise men, Holy Trinity. 12 gods of Olympus... 12 disciples of Christ.

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Re: What are your thoughts on Easter?

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Anyone else wonder if Laban’s sword was made of Damascus steel?

Don’t underestimate the Vikings’ abilities. Their trade in the Middle East put them in possession of weapons made of Damascus steel. Their energy & physical strength were boundless until some chose to live permanently on land where they developed parasitic illnesses.

They did establish outposts on the North American continent, not only on the east coast but as far inland as what is now Minnesota, and as far west as the Red River flowing north into Canada & eventually into Hudson’s Bay.

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Niemand
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Re: What are your thoughts on Easter?

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Thinker wrote: April 21st, 2022, 2:17 pm
Niemand wrote: April 21st, 2022, 12:35 pmThe usual argument is that Catholic priests did it, but I don't buy it. A lot of mythology around the world has common components. Flood myths are found everywhere, as are giants, dwarves, fairy-like creatures and dragons/giant snakes. The common components here are curious - walking on the ocean (rather than the sea - you would think Lake Titicaca would be a better analogue to the inland Sea of Galilee)

I doubt it was the Vikings. They were late arrivals, and I doubt they reached the southern hemisphere.
It’s fascinating to consider Vikings possibly visiting South America before Columbus - even if most historians don’t think it plausible. Sometimes his-story isn’t accurate. Shocking, I know. ;)

It could be both - Catholic invention (some is known for fact), along with collective unconscious - same general stories inherent in all people regardless of time or place.

(Again)Eg.,

Greek Mythology & Christian similarities:
*Pandora opening box releasing evil, like Eve taking fruit
*Zeus destroyed everything with a great flood - like later Noah story
*Similar wars and battles
*Hades (god of the underworld) in Acts 2:27 is incorrectly associated with hell
*Unicorns are mentioned in Numbers 23:22, Job 39:9-10 & Psalms 92:10
*Brother against brother stories
*Odysseus was a carpenter and acquainted with grief and sorrow, had to hide himself when he returned home.
*Similar emphasis on #s: 3 Fates, Cronus overthrown by 3 sons... Bible: 3 wise men, Holy Trinity. 12 gods of Olympus... 12 disciples of Christ.
There is some material which is too close to be coincidental. For example, the Pleiades are associated in many places with a group of (usually five) sisters fleeing someone or something. The legend turns up in Greece, and it turns up at the Devil's Tower, where it is said the scratches on the side were a bear trying to get at them before they ascended into the sky. This doesn't turn up in the Bible.

Zeus/Jupiter does seem to have some connection with Jehovah. Jupiter is basically Iu-pater (Yu-father), and is also known as Jove, or Iove, which would have been pronounced like Yoweh by the Romans.

The unicorns probably are no such thing and a mistranslation by the KJV, same with satyrs.

Atheist midwit types often try and "improve" some of the parallels for their memes, by saying Jesus shares a birthday with Mithras/Horus/Krishna. In actual fact, it's more like the other way round, Jesus' birth was only connected to the midwinter festival centuries after the Bible. Jesus' story was deliberately paganised. Buddha has one very notable parallel with Jesus, at one point he goes off into the wilderness and is tempted by Mara who he dispatches. It's very similar to the Jesus story.

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There is evidence of the Vikings as far south as the Mediterranean so they probably raided North Africa, possibly into the Caspian Sea. But I'm not convinced they reached the southern hemisphere. The group that did seem to get everywhere and is usually overlooked are the Austronesians (which includes the Polynesians). There is some evidence they may have reached Antarctica first, or at least the ice shelf... there is also excellent physical and linguistic evidence that they reached South America across the Pacific, and archaeologists are struggling to hold that one back. There is also evidence of Austronesian influence everywhere from East Africa (they sailed to Madagascar, and probably the mainland), and may have influenced early Japanese culture and the Pacific North West of North America. Both the Vikings and Austronesians did a fair bit of island hopping. The Austronesians mostly succeeded in places that were empty or had low populations. The Vikings, on the other hand, did colonise remote subarctic islands, but they often like to trade and marry local women, and often liked to try and return home. I think they would have suffered from the problem that most white people still deal with in the tropics - a ferocious constant sun. If Iceland and Greenland had extended a few hundred miles further south then I'm sure the Vikings could have settled North America a lot more effectively, because they would have built up their population. That said, these parts would be just as attractive to them - most Vikings ended up settling elsewhere in Europe rather than undertaking epic voyages.

It's certain possible they got down there, I just doubt it. If they built up a bigger settlement in Vinland, I could see them using the Great Lakes as a base and getting down the Mississippi.

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