LDS Freedom Forum

In the introduction to Section 20 of our Doctrine and Covenants you will find this quote...

The Prophet wrote, “We obtained of Him [Jesus Christ] the following...

I believe that is true. The words written there are the Words of Christ.

In D&C 20: 76 the Lord gives instructions on how the sacrament is to be conducted.

76 And the elder or priest shall administer it; and after this manner shall he administer it—he shall kneel with the church

Did you get that Jesus Christ said he shall kneel with the church. That is a command.

In the Book of Mormon we read...

And they did kneel down with the church, and pray to the Father in the name of Christ, saying:

In the early days of the restoration the congregation knelt as the sacrament was administered.

This is the most sacred ordinance we have in the church and Jesus Christ himself commanded that the church should kneel during it's administration.

Has there been a revelation to countermand this commandment? Where is it published? Should we just willy nilly disregard the Commandments of God without his authorization to do so? Has a prophet of God came forward and declared this is no longer a requirement? If he did, don't you think that revelation should be recorded in the same manner as the one wherein the Lord commanded the church to kneel during the administration of the sacrament?

Joseph Smith said this about the ordinances...

“Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of man, ARE NOT TO BE ALTERED OR CHANGED” (TPJS p. 308). (repeat underlined)

“…the ordinances must be kept IN THE VERY WAY God has appointed, otherwise their priesthood will prove a cursing instead of a blessing.” (Joseph Smith, General Conference Tal, Oct. 5, 1840)

Isaiah said the same thing...

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

And you all wonder why the church is under condemnation, which has not been removed. All is well, all is well.

The person giving the sacrament prayer is kneeling for all of us.

But, you forgot to mention 3 Nephi:18:2.

"And while they were gone for bread and wine, he commanded the multitude that they should sit themselves down upon the earth."

When the disciples return, they all have the Sacrament, the congregation was not told to kneel, and one would think that if kneeling by the congregation was a requirement for the ordinance to be done properly, they would have been then told to kneel--but they weren't. They sat for the service. Like LDS congregations do now.

How do you explain that?

Seems to me that if kneeling by those who will partake of the Sacrament is part of the ordinance, why did Jesus tell them to 'sit' and never told them to 'kneel'?

I know that for Denver Snuffer, the congregation must kneel, it was one of the deal breakers which made him leave the church. I'm sure that the Remnant people kneel, and their non-church is relatively new, so maybe this hasn't come up yet, but what do they do if they have a follower who's in a wheelchair or bedridden? Is the sacrament refused to these poor souls because they are not able to kneel? It seems to me that if kneeling is a crucial part of the ordinance, then Remnant will have to deny the sacrament to any who is not capable of kneeling. How sad.

In the LDS church, we take the Sacrament to many people who are homebound and can't get out of bed. I've been to our Care Center sacrament meetings many times and most of the residents who attend sacrament meeting are in wheelchairs--and then they take the trays out to those who are not able to get out of bed to even come to the service.



You know, this insistence that kneeling is required by the congregation as part of the ordinance and MUST BE followed just smacks of pharisee thinking to me.

Animal sacrifices are no longer offered. That is a change in an ordinance-quite a big change in fact. Replacing animal flesh and blood is bread and (wine) water. Those with the keys and authority under the direction of Christ can authorize changes to ordinances. What’s the problem?

Section 20 is the word of Christ to the Church in this day. He is the one that said to kneel with the church. Until someone receives a revelation to say otherwise we should honor HIS words.

ai2 said this...

You know, this insistence that kneeling is required by the congregation as part of the ordinance and MUST BE followed just smacks of pharisee thinking to me.

I'm sure Jesus will be happy to know your opinion of HIS word.

The Lord looketh upon the heart. Those who would kneel if they could will be rewarded as if they did. Search your heart. Do you not feel like kneeling before your maker as you partake of those holy emblems of His sacrifice?

eddie wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 9:48 am The person giving the sacrament prayer is kneeling for all of us.

Thanks for your reply. Please provide scriptural backing for your statement.

DesertWonderer2 wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 9:57 am Animal sacrifices are no longer offered. That is a change in an ordinance-quite a big change in fact. Replacing animal flesh and blood is bread and (wine) water. Those with the keys and authority under the direction of Christ can authorize changes to ordinances. What’s the problem?

If they receive a revelation from God that HE wants the ordinance changed let the publish the revelation. Otherwise, how do we know they aren't making the change out of convenience or biased on the philosophies of men?

This is so insignificant I can't believe it.

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 8:52 am In the early days of the restoration the congregation knelt as the sacrament was administered.

I've always wondered if this was the case. Can you give any reference for this?

MARCH 1978 I’M PUZZLED BY THE INSTRUCTIONS IN D&C 20:76 THAT THE PRIESTS SHOULD “KNEEL WITH THE CHURCH” IN BLESSING THE SACRAMENT. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, AND HAS IT EVER BEEN THE PRACTICE FOR THE WHOLE CONGREGATION TO KNEEL?
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I’m puzzled by the instructions in D&C 20:76 that the priests should “kneel with the church” in blessing the sacrament. What does this mean, and has it ever been the practice for the whole congregation to kneel?

James B. Allen, Assistant Church Historian Your interesting question makes me suspect that you wonder if Saints might be technically violating some instruction by not kneeling during the administration of the sacrament. Let me assure you that you have no need for concern.

Partaking of the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper is one of our most sacred ordinances. We have several customs that help emphasize the sacredness of the occasion. They include singing appropriate hymns, reciting scriptures, and asking the priests and deacons to be properly groomed. But such aids to worship are not nearly as important as the special purpose of the sacrament itself. The sacrament prayers were given by revelation—both to the Book of Mormon people and to the Prophet Joseph Smith. If you read them carefully you will find the full meaning of the sacrament, including the commitments we take upon ourselves each week as we partake.

Outward practices change from time to time; according to changing circumstances and as the leaders of the Church receive inspiration from the Lord. The Prophet Joseph Smith once said that “that which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.” (History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5:135.) In this spirit the Latter-day Saints clearly understand that external forms may be altered by the living prophets as often as the Spirit so dictates to them.

Historically, I am not really certain what the phrase “kneel with the church” meant, and so far as I have been able to discover Joseph Smith did not elaborate upon it. It would be fruitless for us, it seems to me, to try to interpret too precisely a phrase that was not commented upon by the Prophet.

At the same time, we can recognize with interest some of the changes that have taken place in the external patterns. When the sacrament was first introduced by the Savior, he was seated with his apostles. He simply blessed the bread and wine, explained their meaning, and passed them around the table. (See Luke 22:14–20.) When the Savior appeared among the Nephites, he taught them about the sacrament by having them “sit themselves down upon the earth,” then blessing and distributing the sacred emblems. (See 3 Ne. 18:1–4.) It became the practice, however, for those administering the sacrament in Book of Mormon times to “kneel down with the church” as they said the prayer. (Moro. 1:2.)

In the early days of Latter-day Saint Church history, beginning with Joseph Smith, it was not uncommon for the Saints to hear an uplifting gospel sermon while the sacrament was being passed. This was merely a custom, not a revealed rule, and by the end of the nineteenth century it was discontinued.

Later, it became the custom to play or sing devotional music during the sacrament service, but in 1946 the First Presidency felt inspired to recommend that this be replaced by quiet and worshipful reverence. In a letter to all stake presidents and bishops they explained a principle that could also apply to any such outward practices: “Anything which detracts the partaker’s thoughts from the covenants he or she is making is not in accordance with the ideal condition that should exist whenever this sacred, commemorative ordinance is administered.” (Improvement Era, 1946, 49:384.)

The practice of having the whole congregation kneel during the sacrament prayer was not uncommon during the nineteenth century, though it was not required, either. In 1902, President Joseph F. Smith approved an Improvement Era editorial that observed that it had been the custom “when the congregations were not so large as they are now” for the whole congregation to kneel, and that it was still not improper. This was in response to a question about whether more than one of the brethren administering the sacrament should kneel during the prayer. “This matter, however,” the editorial concluded, “may be regulated by the presiding authority, according to local surroundings, circumstances and conditions.” (Improvement Era, 1902, 5:473–74.) The custom of all kneeling together was clearly disappearing at that time, though we do not know when the practice finally ended. The important thing is that the sacred meaning of the sacrament and the essential elements of the sacrament service—that is, the purpose, the prayer, and the authority of the priesthood—have remained constant. These, after all, are the things that really count.

jsk wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 10:44 am This is so insignificant I can't believe it.

It is amazing to me to think that people trivialize what the Lord has commanded us to do. We have become a law unto ourselves, thinking we can do what ever we want. The Lord took the time to reveal how he wanted things done and we feel like we can just ignore it or change it without HIS permission. Yes, there are much more grievous changes to ordinances that I could have used to make this point, however, this is none the less important. It is this lackadaisical attitude toward the Gospel of Jesus Christ that put the church under condemnation.

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

eddie wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 10:48 am Historically, I am not really certain what the phrase “kneel with the church” meant, and so far as I have been able to discover Joseph Smith did not elaborate upon it. It would be fruitless for us, it seems to me, to try to interpret too precisely a phrase that was not commented upon by the Prophet.

So it seems that one is unable to find any historical documents that would tell us that early saints actually knelt. In other words, there is no evidence that the way we perform this ordinance has actually changed.

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 10:12 am Section 20 is the word of Christ to the Church in this day. He is the one that said to kneel with the church. Until someone receives a revelation to say otherwise we should honor HIS words.

ai2 said this...

You know, this insistence that kneeling is required by the congregation as part of the ordinance and MUST BE followed just smacks of pharisee thinking to me.

I'm sure Jesus will be happy to know your opinion of HIS word.

The Lord looketh upon the heart. Those who would kneel if they could will be rewarded as if they did. Search your heart. Do you not feel like kneeling before your maker as you partake of those holy emblems of His sacrifice?

Oh? Does that make the ordinance okay, if they 'would' then it's okay? Well, then, if the whole congregation would kneel if it were feasible, then, I guess it's the same thing and there's nothing for you to complain about, is there. I don't need an outward showing of how I feel taking the emblems of my Savior's sacrifice for me--if it's not a custom to kneel today, it's fine with me.

But it seems like you want to have this both ways. You are complaining that's it's vital that it be done 'properly', but then excuse those who aren't able to do it properly--which is it going to be?

You also ignored in my post that Jesus himself told the congregation to 'sit' for the Sacrament in 3 Nephi 18. I gave you the reference. I do care about jesus' 'word' and in this instance--and it was a large congregation too, he told them to sit. Seems that kneeling was not necessary.

This instance was even pointed out by James Allen in that explanation which eddie shared. Here it is again;

At the same time, we can recognize with interest some of the changes that have taken place in the external patterns. When the sacrament was first introduced by the Savior, he was seated with his apostles. He simply blessed the bread and wine, explained their meaning, and passed them around the table. (See Luke 22:14–20.) When the Savior appeared among the Nephites, he taught them about the sacrament by having them “sit themselves down upon the earth,” then blessing and distributing the sacred emblems. (See 3 Ne. 18:1–4.) It became the practice, however, for those administering the sacrament in Book of Mormon times to “kneel down with the church” as they said the prayer. (Moro. 1:2.)

This to me is one of Denver Snuffer's obvious 'fails' which should have been seen through by his readers. It is not required that the congregation kneel for the sacrament ordinance to be effective, it was a custom--one which was NOT implemented when the Savior himself offered the Sacrament to his apostles at the last supper and when he instituted it with the Nephites/Lamanites.

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 10:22 am

DesertWonderer2 wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 9:57 am Animal sacrifices are no longer offered. That is a change in an ordinance-quite a big change in fact. Replacing animal flesh and blood is bread and (wine) water. Those with the keys and authority under the direction of Christ can authorize changes to ordinances. What’s the problem?

If they receive a revelation from God that HE wants the ordinance changed let the publish the revelation. Otherwise, how do we know they aren't making the change out of convenience or biased on the philosophies of men?

You mean like when Peter published a revelation stating that God told them to stop offering animal sacrifices and start breaking bread instead?

AI2.0 wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 11:36 am

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 10:12 am Section 20 is the word of Christ to the Church in this day. He is the one that said to kneel with the church. Until someone receives a revelation to say otherwise we should honor HIS words.

ai2 said this...

You know, this insistence that kneeling is required by the congregation as part of the ordinance and MUST BE followed just smacks of pharisee thinking to me.

I'm sure Jesus will be happy to know your opinion of HIS word.

The Lord looketh upon the heart. Those who would kneel if they could will be rewarded as if they did. Search your heart. Do you not feel like kneeling before your maker as you partake of those holy emblems of His sacrifice?

Oh? Does that make the ordinance okay, if they 'would' then it's okay? Well, then, if the whole congregation would kneel if it were feasible, then, I guess it's the same thing and there's nothing for you to complain about, is there. I don't need an outward showing of how I feel taking the emblems of my Savior's sacrifice for me--if it's not a custom to kneel today, it's fine with me.
It's much like in the temple. If you don't have a right hand then you use the left. If you have no hands then you think it in your mind. You said feasible, I said if they could kneel. There is a difference. You do the best you can and are able to, to comply with the Lords commands. He knows your intent. If you are intent on sitting on your @$$ when he has commanded you to kneel then, he knows your intent.

But it seems like you want to have this both ways. You are complaining that's it's vital that it be done 'properly', but then excuse those who aren't able to do it properly--which is it going to be?

You also ignored in my post that Jesus himself told the congregation to 'sit' for the Sacrament in 3 Nephi 18. I gave you the reference. I do care about jesus' 'word' and in this instance--and it was a large congregation too, he told them to sit. Seems that kneeling was not necessary.

When Christ is with you you do what he tells you to do. He told them to pray to Him because he was with them. When he is not with you, you obey what he has commanded you to do in his revelations to your dispensation. "And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do. "

This instance was even pointed out by James Allen in that explanation which eddie shared. Here it is again;

At the same time, we can recognize with interest some of the changes that have taken place in the external patterns. When the sacrament was first introduced by the Savior, he was seated with his apostles. He simply blessed the bread and wine, explained their meaning, and passed them around the table. (See Luke 22:14–20.) When the Savior appeared among the Nephites, he taught them about the sacrament by having them “sit themselves down upon the earth,” then blessing and distributing the sacred emblems. (See 3 Ne. 18:1–4.) It became the practice, however, for those administering the sacrament in Book of Mormon times to “kneel down with the church” as they said the prayer. (Moro. 1:2.)

You conveniently left out this part... "The practice of having the whole congregation kneel during the sacrament prayer was not uncommon during the nineteenth century, though it was not required, either."

This to me is one of Denver Snuffer's obvious 'fails' which should have been seen through by his readers. It is not required that the congregation kneel for the sacrament ordinance to be effective, it was a custom--one which was NOT implemented when the Savior himself offered the Sacrament to his apostles at the last supper and when he instituted it with the Nephites/Lamanites.

I said nothing of Denver Snuffer. This has nothing to do with him. The Lord commanded through Joseph Smith to Kneel with the Church. Until you have a more recent revelation on how the sacrament is to be administered, we should take council at Joseph's Hand as the Lord has commanded us to do. If the Brethren have a revelation to superseded what was provided by Joseph publish it. I will gladly take it to the Lord and submit to HIS council.

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 12:36 pm

AI2.0 wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 11:36 am

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 10:12 am Section 20 is the word of Christ to the Church in this day. He is the one that said to kneel with the church. Until someone receives a revelation to say otherwise we should honor HIS words.

ai2 said this...

You know, this insistence that kneeling is required by the congregation as part of the ordinance and MUST BE followed just smacks of pharisee thinking to me.

I'm sure Jesus will be happy to know your opinion of HIS word.

The Lord looketh upon the heart. Those who would kneel if they could will be rewarded as if they did. Search your heart. Do you not feel like kneeling before your maker as you partake of those holy emblems of His sacrifice?

Oh? Does that make the ordinance okay, if they 'would' then it's okay? Well, then, if the whole congregation would kneel if it were feasible, then, I guess it's the same thing and there's nothing for you to complain about, is there. I don't need an outward showing of how I feel taking the emblems of my Savior's sacrifice for me--if it's not a custom to kneel today, it's fine with me.
It's much like in the temple. If you don't have a right hand then you use the left. If you have no hands then you think it in your mind. You said feasible, I said if they could kneel. There is a difference. You do the best you can and are able to, to comply with the Lords commands. He knows your intent. If you are intent on sitting on your @$$ when he has commanded you to kneel then, he knows your intent.

But it seems like you want to have this both ways. You are complaining that's it's vital that it be done 'properly', but then excuse those who aren't able to do it properly--which is it going to be?

You also ignored in my post that Jesus himself told the congregation to 'sit' for the Sacrament in 3 Nephi 18. I gave you the reference. I do care about jesus' 'word' and in this instance--and it was a large congregation too, he told them to sit. Seems that kneeling was not necessary.

When Christ is with you you do what he tells you to do. He told them to pray to Him because he was with them. When he is not with you, you obey what he has commanded you to do in his revelations to your dispensation. "And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do. "

This instance was even pointed out by James Allen in that explanation which eddie shared. Here it is again;

At the same time, we can recognize with interest some of the changes that have taken place in the external patterns. When the sacrament was first introduced by the Savior, he was seated with his apostles. He simply blessed the bread and wine, explained their meaning, and passed them around the table. (See Luke 22:14–20.) When the Savior appeared among the Nephites, he taught them about the sacrament by having them “sit themselves down upon the earth,” then blessing and distributing the sacred emblems. (See 3 Ne. 18:1–4.) It became the practice, however, for those administering the sacrament in Book of Mormon times to “kneel down with the church” as they said the prayer. (Moro. 1:2.)

You conveniently left out this part... "The practice of having the whole congregation kneel during the sacrament prayer was not uncommon during the nineteenth century, though it was not required, either."

This to me is one of Denver Snuffer's obvious 'fails' which should have been seen through by his readers. It is not required that the congregation kneel for the sacrament ordinance to be effective, it was a custom--one which was NOT implemented when the Savior himself offered the Sacrament to his apostles at the last supper and when he instituted it with the Nephites/Lamanites.

I said nothing of Denver Snuffer. This has nothing to do with him. The Lord commanded through Joseph Smith to Kneel with the Church. Until you have a more recent revelation on how the sacrament is to be administered, we should take council at Joseph's Hand as the Lord has commanded us to do. If the Brethren have a revelation to superseded what was provided by Joseph publish it. I will gladly take it to the Lord and submit to HIS council.

Just take it to the Lord, don't demand publication or anything else, its not your call.

Have you had a profound spiritual experience while partaking of the sacrament? If you have then there is your answer, if you havnt I can tell you from personal experience it may not be the ordinance that is off.

drtanner wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 2:13 pm Have you had a profound spiritual experience while partaking of the sacrament? If you have then there is your answer, if you havnt I can tell you from personal experience it may not be the ordinance that is off.

Correct, However, I would add that it does matter if the ordinances have been altered because someone may have received a witness of something, and then not realized it "patterned" the ordinances because the ordinances were altered. You can be forgiving of sin without partaking of actual bread and water and receive a spiritual witness of it. The ordinance is not required to receive his spirit or be forgiven, HOWEVER, a "correct, and un-altered" version of the ordinance may be required for the individual to realize that they spiritually partook of bread and water.

Investigator, have you got your transportation to SLC squared away yet so you can go there and straighten them folks out?

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 8:52 am In the introduction to Section 20 of our Doctrine and Covenants you will find this quote...

The Prophet wrote, “We obtained of Him [Jesus Christ] the following...

I believe that is true. The words written there are the Words of Christ.

In D&C 20: 76 the Lord gives instructions on how the sacrament is to be conducted.

76 And the elder or priest shall administer it; and after this manner shall he administer it—he shall kneel with the church

Did you get that Jesus Christ said he shall kneel with the church. That is a command.

In the Book of Mormon we read...

And they did kneel down with the church, and pray to the Father in the name of Christ, saying:

In the early days of the restoration the congregation knelt as the sacrament was administered.

This is the most sacred ordinance we have in the church and Jesus Christ himself commanded that the church should kneel during it's administration.

Has there been a revelation to countermand this commandment? Where is it published? Should we just willy nilly disregard the Commandments of God without his authorization to do so? Has a prophet of God came forward and declared this is no longer a requirement? If he did, don't you think that revelation should be recorded in the same manner as the one wherein the Lord commanded the church to kneel during the administration of the sacrament?

Joseph Smith said this about the ordinances...

“Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of man, ARE NOT TO BE ALTERED OR CHANGED” (TPJS p. 308). (repeat underlined)

“…the ordinances must be kept IN THE VERY WAY God has appointed, otherwise their priesthood will prove a cursing instead of a blessing.” (Joseph Smith, General Conference Tal, Oct. 5, 1840)

Isaiah said the same thing...

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

And you all wonder why the church is under condemnation, which has not been removed. All is well, all is well.

Your question is based upon an interpretation of an ambiguous piece of text. I agree that "he shall kneel with the church" is a commandment. But, only the person blessing the sacrament is explicitly included in the command to kneel. Note that, "he shall kneel" is a command to the person blessing the sacrament. But, "with the church" is grammatically ambiguous. It could mean, "he shall kneel among the members of the church [who may, or may not, be kneeling or sitting]." In other words, this passage is not an explicit commandment for the church to kneel. So, we must look elsewhere for dispositive evidence of what the Lord commands the congregation to do during the sacrament. Eddie provided that evidence. AI2.0 has also shown where the Lord commanded the people to sit and did not explicitly command them to kneel while the person blessing the sacrament was commanded to kneel. The Lord does not seem to have explicitly commanded the congregation to kneel.

Let's hope that Investigator never starts looking into the history of the temple endowment.

gkearney wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 4:11 pm Let's hope that Investigator never starts looking into the history of the temple endowment.

Or the changes in garments, or who wrote the Bible, or the many secret tunnels under SLC and Independence Masoura.

Craig Johnson wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 4:24 pm

gkearney wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 4:11 pm Let's hope that Investigator never starts looking into the history of the temple endowment.

Or the changes in garments, or who wrote the Bible, or the many secret tunnels under SLC and Independence Masoura.

I've been in one of those "secret" tunnels in Independence. There is one that goes from the RLDS Auditorium to the Temple.

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/you-shall- ... -mormonism

It would appear that the ordinance was not performed with any sort of consistency in administration until more modern times. It doesn't appear the the early saints took the strict literalist approach of the OP. It would seem that the ordinance itself was more important than strict adherence to a ritual.

Even today when we administer to people in their homes the administration changes a bit as necessary for the time/place. Only the prayer remains unchanged (and even that was not always so).

investigator wrote: ↑March 7th, 2018, 8:52 am In the introduction to Section 20 of our Doctrine and Covenants you will find this quote...

The Prophet wrote, “We obtained of Him [Jesus Christ] the following...

I believe that is true. The words written there are the Words of Christ.

In D&C 20: 76 the Lord gives instructions on how the sacrament is to be conducted.

76 And the elder or priest shall administer it; and after this manner shall he administer it—he shall kneel with the church

Did you get that Jesus Christ said he shall kneel with the church. That is a command.

In the Book of Mormon we read...

And they did kneel down with the church, and pray to the Father in the name of Christ, saying:

In the early days of the restoration the congregation knelt as the sacrament was administered.

This is the most sacred ordinance we have in the church and Jesus Christ himself commanded that the church should kneel during it's administration.

Has there been a revelation to countermand this commandment? Where is it published? Should we just willy nilly disregard the Commandments of God without his authorization to do so? Has a prophet of God came forward and declared this is no longer a requirement? If he did, don't you think that revelation should be recorded in the same manner as the one wherein the Lord commanded the church to kneel during the administration of the sacrament?

Joseph Smith said this about the ordinances...

“Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of man, ARE NOT TO BE ALTERED OR CHANGED” (TPJS p. 308). (repeat underlined)

“…the ordinances must be kept IN THE VERY WAY God has appointed, otherwise their priesthood will prove a cursing instead of a blessing.” (Joseph Smith, General Conference Tal, Oct. 5, 1840)

Isaiah said the same thing...

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

And you all wonder why the church is under condemnation, which has not been removed. All is well, all is well.

Wait a second. Stacy Oliver pointed something out to me in a PM:


How come you are using Section 20 to bolster your claim that the Lord 'commanded' the congregation to kneel during the sacrament? The Snuffer/Remnant scriptures threw out section 20:

"Section 20 was written by Oliver Cowdery and constitutes church articles and covenants used to begin to structure the early church organization. They no longer apply."

http://www.totheremnant.com/2017/03/res ... tures.html

If Snuffer teaches this same thing you are, but he doesn't recognize Section 20 as relevant, then the supposed 'commandment' in it isn't relevant either.