Is looking at pornography on the same level as fornication as a sin?

[brianj]

So I wonder, what is your solution?

Do you mind if I propose a solution?

The first part is going to be unpopular. Instead of shaming people who become addicted to porn, figure out why they do it. Addictions are usually not things people get into for fun, they are a dysfunctional attempt at coping with unmet needs. Are there some situations in which LDS men are much more likely to turn to pornography? Naturally this will be extremely unpopular: if a regular observation of mine is accurate, that a significant number of married men who turn to porn are in sexless and loveless marriages where they endure emasculating verbal and emotional abuse, plenty of women will be outraged that they are being accused of causing their husbands to become addicted. Even if legitimate research proves this really is happening, women will be outraged by this.

The second part is to address the unmet needs that lead to this addiction. For singles, this would include teaching healthy ways to direct and release this energy. For married men it would start with marital counseling, which would offend women who don't want to accept they do anything wrong. And if one spouse is not willing to attend counseling or work to improve the relationship, divorce is likely the best option for spiritual and emotional health.

[brianj]

Every married man I know well enough for them to be completely honest would agree with you that marrige is a completely unequal relationship that they just suffer or endure through. I myself would NEVER re-marry if I were to be single again.

Sad.

The most equal marriages I know of are ones where both spouses work full time. But even in those marriages, a great many women view the money she earns as "my money" and the money her husband earns as "our money."

I don't know a single married man with an unemployed wife where she doesn't spend significant amounts of time doing things she wants to do, having play dates where she mostly ignores her child(ren) while chatting with other women, goes on lunch dates with the girls, goes shopping, pursues her hobbies and interests, and so forth while her husband works nine or 10 hard hours. This is fine, there is nothing wrong with this. But when that wife then says he should cook his own dinner because he's perfectly capable of cooking, and that he should do half the housework because she works so hard, the inequality rises to unacceptable levels.

I have known a few few very fortunate men who are married to women who take care of the house work with the kids, without expecting her husband to do at least half the housework, who take care of themselves, who don't blow large sums of money shopping, who exercise and take care of themselves, and who express appreciation to their husband fulfilling her needs and wants by working to fulfill his needs and wants. Sadly, these women seem very rare. But they are out there and I hope and pray that I will find one.

[Elizabeth]

May I say again:

I have to say that I would have zero respect or empathy for anyone whom I knew viewed pornography.

[brianj]

Last year a discussion came up in Priesthood that completely boggled my mind. One guy said we need to lift the stigma a porn addict carries and stop treating them like the unclean lepers of the church (which I agree with). But then a member of the bishopric chimed in with his theory that porn makes rapists out of users(!) It wasn't meant to be a counterargument to the first guy's point, just his two cents... but then the first guy, the same one who said we need to lift the stigma, agreed!

I couldn't believe my ears. For one, it was doublethink. You can't hold both concepts in your head at the same time - that porn addicts are capable of something so monstrous as rape, but we need to break down the stigma? Didn't they realize how the human race reacts to news of a sexual predator (especially a male one), whether the accusation is true or not? That's how you create mindless mobs out for blood, the exact opposite of a lifting of a stigma. For another, I don't pretend to know any magical secret for getting an addict to put away his habit for good, but it is NOT to tell him he's a budding rapist! That's nothing short of an abusive scare tactic and can SERIOUSLY mess a person up.

Nice first post, and welcome to the board. I wonder if the person who spoke up agreed with the bishopric member out of a feeling that he had to support his bishopric.

And I'm sure the entire bishopric would have stood with one member if the person who spoke up first rebutted by pointing out that several peer reviewed studies have shown that increased consumption of pornography is associated with decreased rates of sexual violence.

[Craig Johnson]

May I say again:

I have to say that I would have zero respect or empathy for anyone whom I knew viewed pornography.

Well, I was watching TV the other day and a bra commercial came on. I hope you don't hate me, I averted my eyes, but I saw it. Pornography is everywhere. "Gone with the wind" had the word damn in it and people freaked out. It is now everywhere, it's on billboards, it's in schoolbooks. I avert my eyes at times just from what is on TV and out in the public. The world is full of filth. Almost every PG-13 movie takes the Lord's name in vain. Our society teaches people to love porn. God bless.

[Fiannan]

I think people in this thread are speaking of how the constant guilt trips are not helping, and often make things worse. That's the nature of addictions - guilt can drive a person to TRY to give up a habit, but guilt alone isn't enough, and too much of it can cause the addict to go "what's the use? I'm just a scumbag anyway" and relapse, and it becomes a vicious cycle or a self fulfilling prophecy.

Keep in mind that Church leaders admit the majority of people who access porn are not addicted to porn.

[abijah]

I think men need visuals and pictures and videos of pornography to get aroused, while women can do that with novels such as the 50 Shades of Grey series which is in reality also pornography in my mind. Women's porn is romance novels.

With it being so rampant it's a good idea to have a working definition of pornography. Personally I feel not all nudity is pornography and not all pornography is nudity. If there's anything Jesus had to teach on the subject it's that what matters is where the heart is.

[MMbelieve]

Maybe you should start a women-bashing thread separate from this. I suspect it would get a lot a positive response. Sheesh, I am getting a little tired of the gratuitous women-bashing and sex talk on LDSFF. Might be time to find a new forum.

Though it will probably be taken this way, I hope my words aren't interpreted as woman bashing because that's not my intent.

I am now wondering: if church leaders spoke out against sins women commit as strongly as they speak out against things men are doing, would a lot of women take it as woman bashing?

Ladies, please seriously think about the following and be honest if you choose to respond. We men have essentially been told that if our wives aren't happy, we are failures. Would you feel bashed if an Apostle of the Lord were to stand up in the Women's session of conference next October, or in a general session this month, and said that if your husband isn't happy at home you are a failure? If women in general were sharply reprimanded for spending too much money shopping? Or for accepting statements by fellow Relief Society members that they were forced to have an affair or file divorce because of abuse from their husband without seriously considering the truthfulness of those comments?

I feel that when those of use who have been seriously hurt by our ex wives complain about the constant shaming we receive from general authorities while those women who committed much more grievous sins are never called out, we are accused of woman bashing. I, and others who have been through the same thing, endure accusations of abuse and other sins while a great many people accept the words of our exes without question. If a man commits adultery, he did a very bad thing. So why is it that when a woman commits adultery, her husband did very bad things?

As a female, I would say that all those things you mentioned could be said and women shouldn't call it woman bashing. If a man is not happy at home because of something in his family/home, it's just as important as a woman feeling the same way.

I think women are told many things on how to be better women. In fact, some of the latest conference talks have been quite heavy with responsibility and expectations on women.

Perspectives are different when your in the others shoes. Many men on here do come across as bashing women and it is hard when they lump all women as being supposedly selfish and petty in their behaviors and actions as the one they were married to or their buddy was/is married to.

I learned something very important in my life, we can judge many things including others marriages and input our own understanding as to why he or she is a difficult or bad spouse and think she is a lazy nag or he is a selfish brute without compassion...but, we do not have the relationship intimacy they do so see many things that really are not problems. I have found when I have looked at others relationships, I have been wrong and felt foolish for thinking I knew ANYTHING about their relationship. Where I thought there was no love, turns out there was etc.

Husbands and wives have responsibility to see to the well-being of their spouse. If they are not happy we need to step in and see what can be done to fix it. It's when couples don't communicate well or go to each other that we can really develop problems. If a man turns to porn without speaking with his wife about his problems that cause him to want that (in fact he should he addressing his issues before letting himself think of porn) then he has done his wife a disservice and didn't allow her a chance to be there for him. Requiring a wife to face the lies and betrayal of him divulging this and expecting her to just get over it or be okay is not very fair and places quite a burden on a woman. This, I feel, is the stance of the males in this church. And women want to help but are often not allowed the help or consideration they need and deserve as an equal member in the marriage.

This goes both ways as well, if the woman denied her husband the right and ability to help his wife with whatever issue and instead did things that hurt the bond, we shouldn't put her "problems" on the hurting husband to fix while she gets to play a card of helplessness. It's immature and not conducive to a healthy relationship.

I give zero allowance for women to hurt their marriage the same as I give men zero allowance. Should be treated the same. As offenses to the covenants and trust of your spouse.

Where we have differences is in how men and women operate and communicate and view all aspects of life. We are treated different and need slightly different things, none are less or more inportant. So guys your told to treat your wife well because she is supposed to be the heart of the home and the caretaker to children. Hurt her and the family suffers.

Women are told to be good to their Husbands and loyal and to honor their roles as husbands, fathers and priesthood holder. It's important that men are supported and respected for their roles and positions because he needs the boost of confidence and support to keep going. We both have difficult jobs, it's a matter of truly caring about one another and treating the other with the same level of care we are asking for and needing ourselves. No one is more or less important. His needs and feelings are as important as hers.

This is where I believe the gospel should be the center to help us know what's most important. Too often we get messed up and off track personally which affects the flow of the family. We need to put first what is most important and of lasting value, the rest can be dealt with using those guidelines.

Saying women are never spoken to or given expectations at and from church shows that perhaps your perception is off and what you assume women would have an issue with if done to them is assuming men and women should hear the exact same things, we're not the same.
And if she's not hearing it the way you are then because you find it unfair she should have it said to her so she can see just how much she wouldnt like it being said to her.

Women and men respond a little different and certainly think and speak differently. All I'm saying is...don't judge what you do not know. Women are actually told a lot and have a great burden placed upon them, maybe that's why so many of them are escaping into selfish things.

Perspective is everything and I don't expect a man to fully understand a woman's view. Women have reasons just as men do for the things they do. Take the time to understand why she does this or that or else you run the risk of being a blind judge and doing as you say some women do in treating you poorly because she doesn't understand your struggles or your reasons.

A woman who shops too much...oh she's selfish.
A man who views porn....oh he's selfish
A woman who doesn't clean the house...she lazy
Etc etc etc....all blind judgements from not caring enough to understand your own spouse!

Just because a woman walks the world with a smile and hair and makeup done doesn't mean she is happy. So ya, stop the bashing and open up the paths to understanding. If a marriage ends, it's more often than not a fault of both people (yes, that's a difficult pill to swallow). I do not hear the men admitting their own failures of their marriage just those of their wife. This is bashing.

To be fair, I was responding directly to your post but then kept going as my thoughts rolled out. Take the whole thing as a general reply to the conversation.

[MMbelieve]

I think men need visuals and pictures and videos of pornography to get aroused, while women can do that with novels such as the 50 Shades of Grey series which is in reality also pornography in my mind. Women's porn is romance novels.

We are actually more similar than different in this regard.
Women are incredibly visual!

Think about it with a safe example...women dress up in clothing and colors and jewelry and do their hair and match their shoes...for other women to notice! Not for men. Why? Cause men dont pay attention to those things. If they were "visual", you'd think they would at least notice the color of shirt she was wearing.

Women notice the color of shirt, the style, the fitness, the face, the hair, the smell, the everything on a man AND remembers. She has him sized up right away. And he didn't speak yet. Women do go deeper though after the initial physical assessment to judge whether he is kind, smart, normal and sane, active, healthy, etc to see if he's a good mate.

Oh, the misunderstanding so many men have is incredible. Women are the sexual creatures. Women can control it and hide it better. Yes, there are some women AND men that sex just isn't as inportant to.

And 50 shades, oh my goodness. It's surprising women find this romantic...it's abusive. I mean, what are we doing? So wrong on many levels.

[MMbelieve]

So our current church is fascinated with sexual sin. Many problems are blamed on porn. It is discussed constantly, including at this site.

So I point out that there are other sins, and many have worse consequences, and it is not received well. Told we need to get back to the subject, and that not all women are as I described. I just want to hear more talks about women who destroy families because of their lusts. But I'm told to not change the subject, even though Jesus did when they wanted to stone the adulteress.

Keep it on sex, sex, sex. The modern scribes and Pharisees need to keep the attention on porn to distract from their sins. And women need to maintain power and control.

Jesus would not be impressed with this whole war on porn. Would He make a big deal out of someone who occasionally looks at it? Would He take disciplinary action, and make them confess in front of the ward and humiliate them?

Sure doesn't seem like that's how He acted. He seemed more concerned with the motives of the hypocrites. He saw them as the greater evil.

John Ch. 8

1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Who in the world has to confess to the ward they looked at porn, lol. Never seen that, ever!

The church is having to speak so much about sexual sin to address the growing problem of it.

The world is obsessed with sex, not the church.
The members are obsessed with sex, not the church.
Those engaged in porn are obsessed with sex, not the church.

If your engaged in it of course you will cringe and throw the unfair discrimination card when it's spoken to you. This is not the fault of the church. I have never been hurt or singled out or unfairly treated or offended by the church telling members to shape up so to speak. I actually haven't felt shamed or pressured to look at porn or commit adultery either because they keep talking about it.

It actually makes me want to be better and I feel good about myself for keeping the standard and i see the importance and blessings of doing so.

It's sad the church has to address this so much and that we as members of this church cannot seem to live our own standards with regards to sexuality and expression.

But, as we fail more and more and become like the world, the church is forced to "dumb" down as well. We want better we need to be better!

Saying Jesus wouldn't care if someone occasionally looked at porn is saying he allows it. He doesn't accept it and he does care if someone is doing it. Just because he was perfect and spoke in elevated ways that are higher than ours doesn't mean it's not important to him. He could just speak in a more hopeful and eternal fashion because he knew each and everyone he spoke to.

Why condemn a soul when you can lift a soul. The church wants to lift every member, this I believe. Too many don't listen though and want to not believe in or recognize their OWN value and worth. That's not the church's fault. Many do not want to let the sin go...not condemned and walk away to sin no more. Often, they keep sinning. It's got to get tiring, especially when the church is then blamed for creating a problem the people did themselves.

Never understood why so many people look at the church to do everything.

[captainfearnot]

May I say again:

I have to say that I would have zero respect or empathy for anyone whom I knew viewed pornography.

Still wondering if that includes Donald Trump.

[djinwa]

So our current church is fascinated with sexual sin. Many problems are blamed on porn. It is discussed constantly, including at this site.

So I point out that there are other sins, and many have worse consequences, and it is not received well. Told we need to get back to the subject, and that not all women are as I described. I just want to hear more talks about women who destroy families because of their lusts. But I'm told to not change the subject, even though Jesus did when they wanted to stone the adulteress.

Keep it on sex, sex, sex. The modern scribes and Pharisees need to keep the attention on porn to distract from their sins. And women need to maintain power and control.

Jesus would not be impressed with this whole war on porn. Would He make a big deal out of someone who occasionally looks at it? Would He take disciplinary action, and make them confess in front of the ward and humiliate them?

Sure doesn't seem like that's how He acted. He seemed more concerned with the motives of the hypocrites. He saw them as the greater evil.

John Ch. 8

1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Who in the world has to confess to the ward they looked at porn, lol. Never seen that, ever!

The church is having to speak so much about sexual sin to address the growing problem of it.

The world is obsessed with sex, not the church.
The members are obsessed with sex, not the church.
Those engaged in porn are obsessed with sex, not the church.

If your engaged in it of course you will cringe and throw the unfair discrimination card when it's spoken to you. This is not the fault of the church. I have never been hurt or singled out or unfairly treated or offended by the church telling members to shape up so to speak. I actually haven't felt shamed or pressured to look at porn or commit adultery either because they keep talking about it.

It actually makes me want to be better and I feel good about myself for keeping the standard and i see the importance and blessings of doing so.

It's sad the church has to address this so much and that we as members of this church cannot seem to live our own standards with regards to sexuality and expression.

But, as we fail more and more and become like the world, the church is forced to "dumb" down as well. We want better we need to be better!

Saying Jesus wouldn't care if someone occasionally looked at porn is saying he allows it. He doesn't accept it and he does care if someone is doing it. Just because he was perfect and spoke in elevated ways that are higher than ours doesn't mean it's not important to him. He could just speak in a more hopeful and eternal fashion because he knew each and everyone he spoke to.

Why condemn a soul when you can lift a soul. The church wants to lift every member, this I believe. Too many don't listen though and want to not believe in or recognize their OWN value and worth. That's not the church's fault. Many do not want to let the sin go...not condemned and walk away to sin no more. Often, they keep sinning. It's got to get tiring, especially when the church is then blamed for creating a problem the people did themselves.

Never understood why so many people look at the church to do everything.

You might as well confess in front of the ward. The guy who looks at porn must confess to the bishop, and eventually, the ward knows. Naïve to think otherwise. In addition, good chance his wife will tell everyone - you know, to get "support" (and to increase shame).

https://www.mormonwomen.com/interview/w ... hits-home/

The night he told me about his addiction, I called my mom. We ended up telling his family, and eventually, we knew we’d have to tell close family and friends. However, I prayed hard about who I was going to tell because I needed people who could support us, not judge us and who could handle the burden of knowing.

"Saying Jesus wouldn't care if someone occasionally looked at porn is saying he allows it."

I didn't say he wouldn't care. I said He wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Like he didn't make a big deal out of the adulteress. He just said go and sin no more.

His larger interest was the hypocrisy of the accusers. Which is also my interest. Many who would cast stones at porn viewers are committing evil themselves. They are lusting after many things, often destroying families in the process. But few care. Because we have to keep the attention on things sexual, as those weaknesses are more common in men. And by shaming men, power and control is gained.

That is mainly what this is about. Just admit we don't care about families. The whole family thing is a lie.

Jesus hated hypocrisy, and that is the biggest issue here. Jesus would be unwelcome here and at church.

[MMbelieve]

So our current church is fascinated with sexual sin. Many problems are blamed on porn. It is discussed constantly, including at this site.

So I point out that there are other sins, and many have worse consequences, and it is not received well. Told we need to get back to the subject, and that not all women are as I described. I just want to hear more talks about women who destroy families because of their lusts. But I'm told to not change the subject, even though Jesus did when they wanted to stone the adulteress.

Keep it on sex, sex, sex. The modern scribes and Pharisees need to keep the attention on porn to distract from their sins. And women need to maintain power and control.

Jesus would not be impressed with this whole war on porn. Would He make a big deal out of someone who occasionally looks at it? Would He take disciplinary action, and make them confess in front of the ward and humiliate them?

Sure doesn't seem like that's how He acted. He seemed more concerned with the motives of the hypocrites. He saw them as the greater evil.

John Ch. 8

1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Who in the world has to confess to the ward they looked at porn, lol. Never seen that, ever!

The church is having to speak so much about sexual sin to address the growing problem of it.

The world is obsessed with sex, not the church.
The members are obsessed with sex, not the church.
Those engaged in porn are obsessed with sex, not the church.

If your engaged in it of course you will cringe and throw the unfair discrimination card when it's spoken to you. This is not the fault of the church. I have never been hurt or singled out or unfairly treated or offended by the church telling members to shape up so to speak. I actually haven't felt shamed or pressured to look at porn or commit adultery either because they keep talking about it.

It actually makes me want to be better and I feel good about myself for keeping the standard and i see the importance and blessings of doing so.

It's sad the church has to address this so much and that we as members of this church cannot seem to live our own standards with regards to sexuality and expression.

But, as we fail more and more and become like the world, the church is forced to "dumb" down as well. We want better we need to be better!

Saying Jesus wouldn't care if someone occasionally looked at porn is saying he allows it. He doesn't accept it and he does care if someone is doing it. Just because he was perfect and spoke in elevated ways that are higher than ours doesn't mean it's not important to him. He could just speak in a more hopeful and eternal fashion because he knew each and everyone he spoke to.

Why condemn a soul when you can lift a soul. The church wants to lift every member, this I believe. Too many don't listen though and want to not believe in or recognize their OWN value and worth. That's not the church's fault. Many do not want to let the sin go...not condemned and walk away to sin no more. Often, they keep sinning. It's got to get tiring, especially when the church is then blamed for creating a problem the people did themselves.

Never understood why so many people look at the church to do everything.

You might as well confess in front of the ward. The guy who looks at porn must confess to the bishop, and eventually, the ward knows. Naïve to think otherwise. In addition, good chance his wife will tell everyone - you know, to get "support" (and to increase shame).

https://www.mormonwomen.com/interview/w ... hits-home/

The night he told me about his addiction, I called my mom. We ended up telling his family, and eventually, we knew we’d have to tell close family and friends. However, I prayed hard about who I was going to tell because I needed people who could support us, not judge us and who could handle the burden of knowing.

"Saying Jesus wouldn't care if someone occasionally looked at porn is saying he allows it."

I didn't say he wouldn't care. I said He wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Like he didn't make a big deal out of the adulteress. He just said go and sin no more.

His larger interest was the hypocrisy of the accusers. Which is also my interest. Many who would cast stones at porn viewers are committing evil themselves. They are lusting after many things, often destroying families in the process. But few care. Because we have to keep the attention on things sexual, as those weaknesses are more common in men. And by shaming men, power and control is gained.

That is mainly what this is about. Just admit we don't care about families. The whole family thing is a lie.

Jesus hated hypocrisy, and that is the biggest issue here. Jesus would be unwelcome here and at church.

I agree the family is nearly destroyed. Many many problems and blaming and stone casting because we just can't seem to get ourselves right.

[yjacket]

The night he told me about his addiction, I called my mom. We ended up telling his family, and eventually, we knew we’d have to tell close family and friends. However, I prayed hard about who I was going to tell because I needed people who could support us, not judge us and who could

One of my big beefs about modern society; why does everyone feel the need to share the most intimate parts of their life with the entire world?
Some things are private for a reason-you're mother doesn't need to know, sister, brother, etc. This should be between a husband, wife, God and priesthood authority.

Absolutely no need to go beyond. Really, you're not big enough of a man/woman to keep things private and you need to splash your problems all over the world. Just like on facebook at "friend", shared a post about them being in a mental ward. I don't care and I don't want to know about your most intimate details about your life. People need to learn not to overshare. . .

[larsenb]

Raquel Welch checks in on the topic of the damage porn is doing . . . at: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/raque ... ilated-men :

Raquel Welch: the ‘era of porn’ has ‘annihilated’ men

NewsFamilyTue Mar 13, 2012 - 6:04 pm EST

RaquelW.jpg (29.63 KiB) Viewed 4878 times

March 13, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - As one of America’s most revered sex symbols, she might not be the first celebrity to jump to mind as a crusader against pornography. But Raquel Welch, who rose to icon status as the beauty in the leather bikini from the 1966 movie One Million Years BC, told Men’s Health Magazine in an interview posted online March 8 that today’s sex-saturated culture had sapped the meaning out of sex, and damaged countless men through the pornography industry, which she called “an exploitation of the poor male’s libidos.”

“It’s just dehumanizing. And I have to honestly say, I think this era of porn is at least partially responsible for it,” Welch said of rampant sexual addiction. “Where is the anticipation and the personalization? It’s all pre-fab now. You have these images coming at you unannounced and unsolicited. It just gets to be so plastic and phony to me. . . . . . .

“Seriously, folks, if an aging sex symbol like me starts waving the red flag of caution over how low moral standards have plummeted, you know it’s gotta be pretty bad,” she wrote.

I think her last comment is pertinent and accurate.

[Bridgey]

A guy can look at porn and still totally love his wife. We are built to be naturally sexually attracted to more than one woman, otherwise Polygamy would never work. Not saying it is right. We need to overcome the natural man. But I don't think a woman can judge a man re these things. It is so easy to get caught up in and so addictive. I would be surprised and congratulative if any man could honestly say they have never purposely look at porn at least once eg. Slow to turn the channel when they know they should.

[Bridgey]

I have a question that I think deserves discussion. Why is it so much harder for men to avoid looking at pornography compared to women? What is it about men that makes them weaker in that regard?

Not weaker, just different. If we weren't built this way hardly anyone would get married. Men are designed to chase, women to be chased, wanted, needed, etc. Sorry for the example but we are Not much different to the animal kingdom. Watch the behaviour of 2 dogs, when the female is on heat. Bet u can come up with more than a few similarities in behaviour.

[Fiannan]

I have a question that I think deserves discussion. Why is it so much harder for men to avoid looking at pornography compared to women? What is it about men that makes them weaker in that regard?

Not weaker, just different. If we weren't built this way hardly anyone would get married. Men are designed to chase, women to be chased, wanted, needed, etc. Sorry for the example but we are Not much different to the animal kingdom. Watch the behaviour of 2 dogs, when the female is on heat. Bet u can come up with more than a few similarities in behaviour.

True, when women are ovulating they wear their most provocative clothing as well as become far more flirtatious. There is nothing good or bad about this, it is just that humans are not very fertile, as opposed to other mammals, and thus it necessitates more attempts at pregnancy.

Also, it is a myth that women are not affected as much as men to visual stimuli. However, context is everything. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/

Studies have shown that women's bodies may be affected by erotic imagery but, depending on their upbringing and such, their conscious minds may not allow them to acknowledge this. Perhaps this explains why women from highly religious backgrounds may find porn not appealing at all while women with more liberal attitudes are as into it as a man would be. The male has a far weaker buffer from sight to physiological reaction while women are far more affected by their mental states. Also important, and why both porn and sexually explicit cable TV programs have become more "romantic" and sexual is to appeal to women. Women are not as into seeing nudity in and of itself but if combined with passion they actually respond more so than men do. Why do you think sex is more integrated into cable dramas? It is to increase female viewers, not male. Why is lesbian porn so popular with heterosexual women? Again, most involves romance and sex. And one can bet this psychologically affects a young woman viewing such stuff than a young man - and this is why so many young women identify themselves as bi-sexual or pan-sexual nowadays (and the rates are going up).

Earlier someone quoted Rachel Welch on porn but she has also noted how the birth control pill has negatively affected society:

Raquel Welch has blamed the contraceptive pill for the breakdown of sexual morality.

The 70s sex symbol believes the use of oral contraception, which became available in the 60s, has encouraged promiscuity and young people no longer care about the institution of marriage.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/ce ... -uvnq.html

The reproductive role of sex and sexuality has been forgotten and sex has been turned into a form of recreation. Ultimately, I would say that our divorcing sex from reproduction has merely made porn more a mainstream form of entertainment because of our repression of our God-given natural drives.

[EmmaLee]

Welp, this won't be welcome news by many posting on this thread, who were hoping the Church would ease up on this topic -

'We're not talking about it enough': Primary president talks about protecting families against pornography

Full article here - https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... raphy.html

[Yappy Hopkins]

For my part, I don't think the Church needs to ease up on the topic. It's that I wish we'd quit treating those who are caught in porn's snare as though they're stripped of their humanity and are now icky, untouchable balls of slime who should be kept from view of everyone else.

[Fiannan]

Welp, this won't be welcome news by many posting on this thread, who were hoping the Church would ease up on this topic -

'We're not talking about it enough': Primary president talks about protecting families against pornography

Full article here - https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... raphy.html

Maybe we are not talking about methamphetamine with our kids. Maybe we need to start conversations and have family home evenings dealing with Meth, and make sure we have more talks in Church about Meth. And maybe it is never to early to talk about Meth with them so much so that all they are thinking about is how Meth is lurking just around the corner.

This of course would only get children to think about Meth 24/7 and even become obsessed with it.

When I was growing up there were no Playboys or Penthouses in our home. I knew families who did have such things and I always felt this was really dumb, especially as I hit teenage years and some guys had centerfolds on the walls of their rooms. Having never been subjected to any discussions on such matters I shrugged off the issue. Besides, that curiosity most people have over what the opposite sex looked like under their clothes that motivates so many young people to access porn was pretty much satisfied growing up in an area with a large counterculture so it was not unusual to see naked hippie women at local swimming holes for instance. Thus, I did not grow up with a fixation on such things; just a realization that there were biological differences between men and women. No big deal.

Lastly, this is the most disturbing part of the article in question:

Sister Jones reminded listeners to show love when they find out that their children have been exposed to pornography.

“They will be embarrassed, frightened and tearful, and so afraid they are in trouble,” she said. “It’s difficult to take something that has been in the dark and expose it to light.”

Feelings of shame and vulnerability, failures and challenges along the way may come during recovery, but the need for constant love is critical.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... raphy.html

Will such shame and guilt be something that was part of them or projected onto them by their parents?

[EmmaLee]

Don't know. ^ But maybe if a few bishops and stake presidents have 2-hour meetings during the block on the Sabbath Day at church, inviting totally unrepentant porn viewers to speak to the congregants about how wonderful being a porn viewer is, we'll all just magically start to love each other till there are no more problems in the world. That's what's happening with homosexuality in the Church, so why not with porn viewers?

[Fiannan]

Don't know. ^ But maybe if a few bishops and stake presidents have 2-hour meetings during the block on the Sabbath Day at church, inviting totally unrepentant porn viewers to speak to the congregants about how wonderful being a porn viewer is, we'll all just magically start to love each other till there are no more problems in the world. That's what's happening with homosexuality in the Church, so why not with porn viewers?

Don't give them any ideas.

A side-note I believe porn has made same-sex activities go mainstream. It is not the only force behind this but it is quite a powerful force.

[EmmaLee]

A side-note I believe porn has made same-sex activities go mainstream. It is not the only force behind this but it is quite a powerful force.

Agree completely.

[abijah]

A side-note I believe porn has made same-sex activities go mainstream. It is not the only force behind this but it is quite a powerful force.

Not just same-sex activities. The latest fad is incest, porn sites are rife with it. An associate at work informed me recently that a majority of featured videos on the big sites' front pages are portrayals between immediate family members. What used to be taboo is now titillating.