LDS Freedom Forum

BackBlast wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 8:50 pm

illyume wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 8:34 pm

BackBlast wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 6:56 pm I believe that usually when people feel this way they are doing the wrong thing, asking for the wrong thing. The Lord is in charge and asking that our trials be removed often isn't what will help us. I progress the most and best when I try to put myself in tune with what He would have me do. Figure out what that is, and then do it. Sometimes it's doing something really hard, like forsaking sin and giving your heart to Him. Other times it's just hanging on for dear life.

But sometimes the thing really just is that hard.

So... what, was I wrong in asking to have my desires changed? Asking to have my attraction toward men replaced with attraction toward women wasn't the right request?

This is my experience...

Sometimes we look at the obstacle that is huge and obvious to us, instead of the smaller more manageable one in front of us. I struggled for decades with some weaknesses and I always wrestled with them directly. Then, in one of my more painful trials, I found myself just behaving more selflessly in my family and giving up my hold on some material things. Both were, I thought, completely unrelated to what I saw as my big weaknesses. Only, when the trial was over, those things I had battled for decades just kind of melted away, it wasn't that hard. There was a moment where I let go of them for ever, but it was relatively easy compared to all the effort I had previously put in. The smaller thing was anchoring the bigger thing.

And there were plenty of days where my prayers were just pleading to be led by the Lord, for assistance making it through just one more day, and so on.

But I guess it still comes back to "either you get the answer that the church is the right way to go, or you're doing something wrong."

Don't fret too much.

What should I work on now? Can you send me a trial to overcome that thing if necessary? I submit to your teaching and training E'en though it be a cross That raiseth me.

Are all great requests when done in faith. I don't always get responses to things like that right away, but they come.

I believe that Christ is the answer, or at least being in his hands eventually provides them. That corresponds with the church for most people, but I wouldn't say it's always so. Sometimes the church has internal difficulties that makes it more difficult for certain individuals.

I'm with BackBlast on this. Fretting and angst are the wrong approach to God. He gonna let you tantrum... or that's my experience.
I've had to learn not to mistake "broken heart" and "real intent" for sadness and intense feeling.

Don't whip up your emotions.

When you are mature enough to calmly accept that you've been taking the wrong path, then just calmly change. Ask for help but don't make any ultimatums. Drop your burden.

EmmaLee wrote: ↑July 11th, 2018, 4:17 pm

AI2.0 wrote: ↑July 11th, 2018, 4:12 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑July 11th, 2018, 4:03 pm This is fun - #PedosArePeople #BornThatWay #HeartProgress #LoveisLove #StoptheHate
Mormonandpedo.lds.org

15 minute video - worth watching, IMO -

'The Left's Push for Pedophile Acceptance'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q6pDGN ... e=youtu.be


pedos.jpg

I'm not sure how this is relevant.

It's as relevant as all the other posts on this thread not directly related to the OP, but thanks for just choosing mine to highlight.

Raise of hands, please - how many of you, 20 years ago, would have thought same-sex marriage would ever be made "legal" in the U.S.? And that the LDS Church would do a 180 and say being "gay" or "homosexual" was not a sin? Maybe I'm the only one (who will admit publicly to it anyway...) who never thought either would happen - but look where we are now. This is RELEVANT because this (what I posted here) is the (near) future, whether you like it or not, and whether you believe it or not.

I've been avoiding commenting, but that post of your's was so outrageous. As I said, I wanted to know WHY you would think that was relevant--I think it's a valid question. What I get from your response is that you are suggesting that since the LDS church has been trying to encourage Christlike responses to Same sex individuals who are trying to live the gospel, you perceive it as just a step away from the LDS church allowing pedophilia next! This is so much an over-reaction.


I don't think average LDS members are misunderstanding the efforts of our leaders on this--and it's just a small, very harsh vocal minority who are angry about this on the forum. I have faith in our Prophet and apostles. I'm certain they pray for guidance and do their best to serve the Lord and do his will. Extending compassion to some members who struggle with these issues and need our fellowship will not lead to wickedness--it leads to charity and love, and opportunities to help others use the atonement in their lives, which is what's important in the gospel. Church leaders are not going to condone same sex marriages in the temple or pedophilia--it's offensive that you suggest it with your post; insinuating that the church is doing such a thing is clearly over-reacting.

It's extremely disturbing how this topic has brought out such an ugly attitude toward our church leaders and toward members who struggle with same sex attraction. When I read some of the posts here, I feel like I'm on an Anti-Mormon forum.

Yeah, I'm afraid I've got nothing else positive to contribute here.

AI2.0 wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 3:29 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑July 11th, 2018, 4:17 pm

AI2.0 wrote: ↑July 11th, 2018, 4:12 pm

EmmaLee wrote: ↑July 11th, 2018, 4:03 pm This is fun - #PedosArePeople #BornThatWay #HeartProgress #LoveisLove #StoptheHate
Mormonandpedo.lds.org

15 minute video - worth watching, IMO -

'The Left's Push for Pedophile Acceptance'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q6pDGN ... e=youtu.be


pedos.jpg

I'm not sure how this is relevant.

It's as relevant as all the other posts on this thread not directly related to the OP, but thanks for just choosing mine to highlight.

Raise of hands, please - how many of you, 20 years ago, would have thought same-sex marriage would ever be made "legal" in the U.S.? And that the LDS Church would do a 180 and say being "gay" or "homosexual" was not a sin? Maybe I'm the only one (who will admit publicly to it anyway...) who never thought either would happen - but look where we are now. This is RELEVANT because this (what I posted here) is the (near) future, whether you like it or not, and whether you believe it or not.

I've been avoiding commenting, but that post of your's was so outrageous. As I said, I wanted to know WHY you would think that was relevant--I think it's a valid question. What I get from your response is that you are suggesting that since the LDS church has been trying to encourage Christlike responses to Same sex individuals who are trying to live the gospel, you perceive it as just a step away from the LDS church allowing pedophilia next! This is so much an over-reaction.

I don't think average LDS members are misunderstanding the efforts of our leaders on this--and it's just a small, very harsh vocal minority who are angry about this on the forum. I have faith in our Prophet and apostles. I'm certain they pray for guidance and do their best to serve the Lord and do his will. Extending compassion to some members who struggle with these issues and need our fellowship will not lead to wickedness--it leads to charity and love, and opportunities to help others use the atonement in their lives, which is what's important in the gospel. Church leaders are not going to condone same sex marriages in the temple or pedophilia--it's offensive that you suggest it with your post; insinuating that the church is doing such a thing is clearly over-reacting.

It's extremely disturbing how this topic has brought out such an ugly attitude toward our church leaders and toward members who struggle with same sex attraction. When I read some of the posts here, I feel like I'm on an Anti-Mormon forum.

What EXACTLY was "outrageous" about it? Can you specify? If not, retract your statement. Your mind works in very mysterious ways if you think for one second that anything in my post suggested that the Church was going to "accept" pedophilia. Your reply to me is shocking, to be honest.

You've stated many times lately that you don't like LDSFF anymore, so why are you still here? It seems strange that someone would continue spending so much time with something they disdain, but whatever floats your boat, AI2.0. As for what I posted - it was mainly meant (which was obvious to everyone but you, apparently) that the world is indeed leaning toward accepting pedophilia - only someone with their head firmly in the sand would say otherwise. THAT was the main crux of my "outrageous" post, which again, should have been obvious. But since you seem to follow me around the forum, just waiting to pounce on everything I say, I should have anticipated your response.

As for the Church - you are actually the one who is acting un-Christ-like with your reply to me - so maybe, look in a mirror. Take everything you've said about the Church in regards to what they're doing/saying towards homosexuals and then do the same for pedophiles (or anything else - fill in the blank). Or are you saying the Church shouldn't extend compassion towards anyone with other sins besides homosexuals?? Because that's exactly what it sounds like you're saying - that the Church and it's (self) righteous members is extending the hand of fellowship and love, etc. to homosexuals, but it's not okay to do that to other people who struggle with other things?? Why shouldn't the Church show compassion or give help to people who struggle with other sexual perversions (such as pedophilia, sex addictions of all sorts, adultery, etc. etc.). Or is homosexuality really the ONLY thing that the LDS Church can show compassion and help for in today's world?

I've never said the Church was going to allow same-sex marriage in the temples, etc. EVER, so I don't appreciate you lumping me in with others who have said that in your reply to me. My post was actually pretty clear in its purpose - it was to show that the world and many in the same-sex community ARE leaning toward accepting pedophilia - that's not even debatable. And if the Church has a mormonandgay website, they should have other websites for other struggles and problems, too. Those were my only two points. Easy, clear.

illyume wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 4:19 pm Yeah, I'm afraid I've got nothing else positive to contribute here.

Some of the responses that you've gotten demonstrate ignorance and how deeply inadequate the "traditional" Church approach to homosexuality has been and in some instances still is. I'm happy about how the Church is now starting to approach this question. I'm glad we are starting to get closer to a more Chrislike and realistic way of addressing these things.

I'd still like to know how you would answer my question earlier in this thread. Maybe another thread would be better.

-Finrock

illyume wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 5:31 pm

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 5:25 pm

illyume wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 4:43 pm

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 4:30 pm

Did you pray while you read it? What was your mindset going into it?

Yes, I prayed while reading, before, and after. Many times, earnestly. It wasn't something I was going to just let go easily!

And my mindset going into it could probably best summed up as "What's right? What's true? What should I do? What have I founded my life on, and what should I do moving forward?"

But... I'm going to guess the only possible explanation for my not receiving an answer of "Yes the Book of Mormon is the Word of God" is that something I did was wrong--that I wasn't sincere enough, didn't try hard enough, wasn't open enough to the Spirit, or something?

Do it again. This time offer up a sacrifice in the form of abstinence, refrain from all sexual activity, including masturbation. And include fasting to this most important endeavor. You claim to not want to let go easily...Prove it.

That very much was part of it when I did! So, with that... what new requirements are you going to set to explain that I didn't try hard enough?

What would you be willing to do differently if you got an answer. How would it change your life if you received an answer? Are you really willing to do what would be required if you were to receive an answer?

Finrock wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 6:22 pm Some of the responses that you've gotten demonstrate ignorance and how deeply inadequate the "traditional" Church approach to homosexuality has been and in some instances still is. I'm happy about how the Church is now starting to approach this question. I'm glad we are starting to get closer to a more Chrislike and realistic way of addressing these things.

I'd still like to know how you would answer my question earlier in this thread. Maybe another thread would be better.

-Finrock

Indeed, and it's an encouraging thought that those attitudes are becoming more rare. The response I've gotten from my family, and them in turn from others has shown things are indeed getting better.

As to what it means to me that the Book of Mormon is true? At a bare minimum, I'd say that "the Book of Mormon is true" would mean that its words are inspired by God, and are beneficial to humankind. I'd probably also say it should mean that the claims as to its origin and what bits of history are written in it are generally correct.

"The only problem the objector has to resolve for himself is whether the Book of Mormon is true. For if the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was his prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led today by a prophet receiving revelation." -- this statement Ezra Taft Benson gave (repeated in Preach my Gospel, and plenty of other places and plenty of other ways) certainly isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion, but it was also certainly my experience within the church.

When I was facing a pile of doubts some ten years ago when I was preparing to serve a mission, that's the line of reasoning that led to a powerful experience in prayer--profound clarity, peace, a sense of "rightness", and everything, something as a believer I could only attribute to the Spirit. In what I believed to be an answer to prayer then, I felt like everything just "clicked", and all of the claims of the church were right and true. In it, I found sufficient conviction for me to go on to serve a full mission, and so on.

And even though I no longer feel confident such an experience is really a solid foundation on which to base one's understanding of truth, I can still understand how moving something like that can be, and can empathize with the sincerity many people have in their own faith. Really, even a lot of the ignorant or even outright hateful-sounding stuff, I realize is spoken out of a genuine desire on the speaker's part to do what they think is right.

illyume wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 9:52 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 6:22 pm Some of the responses that you've gotten demonstrate ignorance and how deeply inadequate the "traditional" Church approach to homosexuality has been and in some instances still is. I'm happy about how the Church is now starting to approach this question. I'm glad we are starting to get closer to a more Chrislike and realistic way of addressing these things.

I'd still like to know how you would answer my question earlier in this thread. Maybe another thread would be better.

-Finrock

Indeed, and it's an encouraging thought that those attitudes are becoming more rare. The response I've gotten from my family, and them in turn from others has shown things are indeed getting better.

I do find it interesting you have not responded to my challenge which either means. A) You haven't found the time to do it. B) You think it's a complete waste of time C) You don't really want to change to be heterosexual or D) You are currently incapable of finding beauty in the opposite sex, which if that is the case is really quite sad b/c it means you are completely throwing out 50% of the population and saying there is no beauty to be found in 50% of the population . . .

Aprhys wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 6:46 am I will wager anyone $1,000 that there will be homosexual marriages in the temples within 20 years. I have three older kids in their late teens and early 20's. One is a recently returned missionary. They all agree that what my wife and I have taught them is "old-fashioned and bigoted." These kids are not alone. They will be the leaders on the church and I have no doubt that they will push this. Sad.

I will take you up on that bet. The Prophet and the 12 will never claim they received revelation that homosexual marriages are now authorized in the temple, will never happen.

illyume, go here http://transfiguredword.blogspot.com/20 ... -line.html and read it.

Susie Augenstein's brother-in-law has created a painting of Rainbow Jesus. Copies are for sale. Perfect for the coming-out party for your nearest and dearest.

https://www.facebook.com/Lets-Love-Bett ... V0&fref=nf

illyume wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 9:52 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 6:22 pm Some of the responses that you've gotten demonstrate ignorance and how deeply inadequate the "traditional" Church approach to homosexuality has been and in some instances still is. I'm happy about how the Church is now starting to approach this question. I'm glad we are starting to get closer to a more Chrislike and realistic way of addressing these things.

I'd still like to know how you would answer my question earlier in this thread. Maybe another thread would be better.

-Finrock

Indeed, and it's an encouraging thought that those attitudes are becoming more rare. The response I've gotten from my family, and them in turn from others has shown things are indeed getting better.

As to what it means to me that the Book of Mormon is true? At a bare minimum, I'd say that "the Book of Mormon is true" would mean that its words are inspired by God, and are beneficial to humankind. I'd probably also say it should mean that the claims as to its origin and what bits of history are written in it are generally correct.

"The only problem the objector has to resolve for himself is whether the Book of Mormon is true. For if the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was his prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led today by a prophet receiving revelation." -- this statement Ezra Taft Benson gave (repeated in Preach my Gospel, and plenty of other places and plenty of other ways) certainly isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion, but it was also certainly my experience within the church.

When I was facing a pile of doubts some ten years ago when I was preparing to serve a mission, that's the line of reasoning that led to a powerful experience in prayer--profound clarity, peace, a sense of "rightness", and everything, something as a believer I could only attribute to the Spirit. In what I believed to be an answer to prayer then, I felt like everything just "clicked", and all of the claims of the church were right and true. In it, I found sufficient conviction for me to go on to serve a full mission, and so on.

And even though I no longer feel confident such an experience is really a solid foundation on which to base one's understanding of truth, I can still understand how moving something like that can be, and can empathize with the sincerity many people have in their own faith. Really, even a lot of the ignorant or even outright hateful-sounding stuff, I realize is spoken out of a genuine desire on the speaker's part to do what they think is right.

I don't think your attraction to men is really the issue here. If you're not happy, not being happy is the issue. If you feel guilt and confusion, that is the issue. You need to learn how to be happy.

You need to learn your true nature. Your body is not you because it will die and you will not. I have serious doubts that your mind and thoughts are even you. What is you is the thing that looks out into the world and experiences. You are an experiencer. Take some time to stop thinking completely and just experience. Just ignore all of the words that come to your mind. Try to do this until you do not think any words, even if it's just for a second. Then you will start to realize you are the experiencer.

You can control your feelings to a great degree. Realize that life is a giant growth opportunity. If something is hard, then you are learning how to deal with hard things. I used to do lots of little things like take cold showers or not use a/c just so I could deal with hard things. So when something difficult happens, don't think it's a bad thing, think of it as a growth opportunity. This is definitely harder for long term things, but most things are short term.

When I was suicidal, I went to a counselor who did nothing for me. I left and said, "Well, nobody is going to solve this but me." I'm not really sure why I thought that because I still didn't really understand life. The one thing I thought though that changed my life was: "I can commit suicide at any time." What that meant was life was not bad at that time. It certainly looked like it was going to be bad in the future, but it wasn't yet. My parents were *going* to kick me out. I *was* going to not have anywhere to live. But tonight? I had somewhere to live. So once it actually got bad I could just kill myself then. This is a weird thing to think but this totally changed my life. Most of the time I was unhappy was not because of things that were actually happening, but things that seemed like they would eventually happen.

Don't have expectations of other people. You can't hold external parties responsible for your happiness. You have to learn to be happy by yourself. You have to let go of any expectations you have of anyone or anything else. Every time you feel disappointed, you have to realize that it's not the anyone or anything that made you unhappy. It was the expectation you held that made you unhappy. You are responsible for yourself and everyone else is responsible for themselves. So you cannot expect things of people.

Take time to relax and be positive. Take time when you are angry to think about it. You are angry because of expectations you had. You do not have the ability to force other people to meet your expectations so they often will not. Sometimes they know your expectations and screw you anyway. Oh well.

I think once you find that you can be happy with yourself then you can approach the issue of attraction towards men. When you approach it from a place where you have an external locus of control, you will not be able to figure it out or make any good decisions.

Gage wrote: ↑July 15th, 2018, 3:31 am

Aprhys wrote: ↑July 12th, 2018, 6:46 am I will wager anyone $1,000 that there will be homosexual marriages in the temples within 20 years. I have three older kids in their late teens and early 20's. One is a recently returned missionary. They all agree that what my wife and I have taught them is "old-fashioned and bigoted." These kids are not alone. They will be the leaders on the church and I have no doubt that they will push this. Sad.

I will take you up on that bet. The Prophet and the 12 will never claim they received revelation that homosexual marriages are now authorized in the temple, will never happen.

I lean towards it will happen and I think I'll learn a lot about the mortal church whether it does or not.

illyume wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 9:52 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑July 13th, 2018, 6:22 pm Some of the responses that you've gotten demonstrate ignorance and how deeply inadequate the "traditional" Church approach to homosexuality has been and in some instances still is. I'm happy about how the Church is now starting to approach this question. I'm glad we are starting to get closer to a more Chrislike and realistic way of addressing these things.

I'd still like to know how you would answer my question earlier in this thread. Maybe another thread would be better.

-Finrock

Indeed, and it's an encouraging thought that those attitudes are becoming more rare. The response I've gotten from my family, and them in turn from others has shown things are indeed getting better.

As to what it means to me that the Book of Mormon is true? At a bare minimum, I'd say that "the Book of Mormon is true" would mean that its words are inspired by God, and are beneficial to humankind. I'd probably also say it should mean that the claims as to its origin and what bits of history are written in it are generally correct.

"The only problem the objector has to resolve for himself is whether the Book of Mormon is true. For if the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was his prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led today by a prophet receiving revelation." -- this statement Ezra Taft Benson gave (repeated in Preach my Gospel, and plenty of other places and plenty of other ways) certainly isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion, but it was also certainly my experience within the church.

When I was facing a pile of doubts some ten years ago when I was preparing to serve a mission, that's the line of reasoning that led to a powerful experience in prayer--profound clarity, peace, a sense of "rightness", and everything, something as a believer I could only attribute to the Spirit. In what I believed to be an answer to prayer then, I felt like everything just "clicked", and all of the claims of the church were right and true. In it, I found sufficient conviction for me to go on to serve a full mission, and so on.

And even though I no longer feel confident such an experience is really a solid foundation on which to base one's understanding of truth, I can still understand how moving something like that can be, and can empathize with the sincerity many people have in their own faith. Really, even a lot of the ignorant or even outright hateful-sounding stuff, I realize is spoken out of a genuine desire on the speaker's part to do what they think is right.

Thanks for the response.

I think if you take the Book of Mormon as a whole and you ask, "What is the message of this book?" I think the content of the book, regardless of how it was written, what religion it is associated with, whether the history is true/not true, the content of the book is Good. The Book of Mormon has a message for us to be Good, to be Christlike. Even with mistakes and errors, taken as a whole, the Book of Mormon message is one of putting aside selfish, egotistical living and embracing a life where we love others as we do ourselves (once we learn to love ourselves, of course). That is a good thing. To me, that means the book is good. It has to be at least good and in that sense true. Its true because it teaches true ideas, true principles, that are good. That is worth hanging on to and worth studying and attempting to apply in our lives.

-Finrock

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2018, 4:31 am

AI2.0 wrote: ↑June 3rd, 2018, 8:41 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 3rd, 2018, 3:51 pm

AI2.0 wrote: ↑June 3rd, 2018, 7:23 am Testimony meeting is for bearing testimony of jesus christ and is not a time to make statements or test others, why would you suggest something that would drive the spirit away?
You are aware that there is a spirit in the meetings and you should be inviting it, not making a mockery of sacrament meeting?

Oh I get it, bearing of testimony is only for "safe" things, things that you deem are not a "statement". Hmm, how many times do members bear their testimonies about any umpteen number of Gospel topics, like bearing testimony of tithing, bearing testimony about the Word of Wisdom, or about how overcoming pornography?

Never did I realize that bearing a testimony against the evils of homosexuality was making a "statement", since when did TESTIFYING about the simple truths of the Gospel (which are in the scriptures) become a "statement".

Maybe YOU are the one who has been beguiled and lulled to sleep?

It seems you could use a refresher on exactly what it means to bear testimony. You and a lot of other members, unfortunately....

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... y?lang=eng

As for your dare: It would not only be an incorrect usage of the testimony meeting but it is especially offensive because you were attempting to goad another member into trying to make some kind of statement or bet, rather then bear pure testimony, which comes from the heart in humility and sincerity.

And when did the 'evils of homosexuality' become one of the 'simple truths of the Gospel'?? Acting on homosexual feelings is a sin, yes and this is doctrine, and it should be covered when discussing Morality, but it's a broad subject. Also, you seem to have trouble separating the struggle of feeling same sex attraction from actually following through and giving in to those feelings. You might want to look at this website the church has set up, to help you understand this better;

https://mormonandgay.lds.org/

But please read Elder Ballard's talk so you have some idea what is appropriate to bear testimony of and how to do it, in Fast and Testimony meeting.

Oh I know exactly what bearing testimony is all about. Yes evils of homosexuality is written in the basics of the Law of Chastity. 15 years ago this wouldn't even be controversial, now you are afraid to even denounce homosexuality.

If I said bear testimony of the Word of Wisdom, you'd have no problem with it, don't hide behind saying "well it was a dare and that's wrong"-face up to the fact that if it were about not smoking tobacco you'd have absolutely 0 problem standing up at the pulpit and bearing a testimony about the evils and dangers of disobeying the Word of Wisdom and smoking in particular. But you won't do the same thing about the Law of Chastity--hypocrite.

Don't hide behind "pure testimony", one can bear a testimony about any Gospel Principle as long as it is based on truth. I never said bear testimony that God hates homosexuals, only about the evils of homosexuality-i.e. hate the sin love the sinner. You won't even bear testimony against it b/c you don't even believe it is a Gospel Principle-hence my point!

You are even more proof (and the fact that you use Elder Ballard's talk) that this rot will continue to spread until it is either fully accepted or fully rejected.

You won't even bear a testimony that homosexuality is wrong!!! And there is a huge, huge difference between love and kindness and acceptance. We can love, show kindness to those who disobey the Word of Wisdom in the Church without acceptance. The LGBTQ movement in the Church is about acceptance-not love, not kindness it's about acceptance. And it will cause major, major problems down the road (it is already causing problems).

Update: I know This was pages ago but I bore my testimony about eternal families and the procolamation and marriage between a man and a woman, and no one batted an eye. I guess I've got a good old fashioned ward.

ElizaRSkousen wrote: ↑August 8th, 2018, 12:14 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2018, 4:31 am

AI2.0 wrote: ↑June 3rd, 2018, 8:41 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 3rd, 2018, 3:51 pm

Oh I get it, bearing of testimony is only for "safe" things, things that you deem are not a "statement". Hmm, how many times do members bear their testimonies about any umpteen number of Gospel topics, like bearing testimony of tithing, bearing testimony about the Word of Wisdom, or about how overcoming pornography?

Never did I realize that bearing a testimony against the evils of homosexuality was making a "statement", since when did TESTIFYING about the simple truths of the Gospel (which are in the scriptures) become a "statement".

Maybe YOU are the one who has been beguiled and lulled to sleep?

It seems you could use a refresher on exactly what it means to bear testimony. You and a lot of other members, unfortunately....

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... y?lang=eng

As for your dare: It would not only be an incorrect usage of the testimony meeting but it is especially offensive because you were attempting to goad another member into trying to make some kind of statement or bet, rather then bear pure testimony, which comes from the heart in humility and sincerity.

And when did the 'evils of homosexuality' become one of the 'simple truths of the Gospel'?? Acting on homosexual feelings is a sin, yes and this is doctrine, and it should be covered when discussing Morality, but it's a broad subject. Also, you seem to have trouble separating the struggle of feeling same sex attraction from actually following through and giving in to those feelings. You might want to look at this website the church has set up, to help you understand this better;

https://mormonandgay.lds.org/

But please read Elder Ballard's talk so you have some idea what is appropriate to bear testimony of and how to do it, in Fast and Testimony meeting.

Oh I know exactly what bearing testimony is all about. Yes evils of homosexuality is written in the basics of the Law of Chastity. 15 years ago this wouldn't even be controversial, now you are afraid to even denounce homosexuality.

If I said bear testimony of the Word of Wisdom, you'd have no problem with it, don't hide behind saying "well it was a dare and that's wrong"-face up to the fact that if it were about not smoking tobacco you'd have absolutely 0 problem standing up at the pulpit and bearing a testimony about the evils and dangers of disobeying the Word of Wisdom and smoking in particular. But you won't do the same thing about the Law of Chastity--hypocrite.

Don't hide behind "pure testimony", one can bear a testimony about any Gospel Principle as long as it is based on truth. I never said bear testimony that God hates homosexuals, only about the evils of homosexuality-i.e. hate the sin love the sinner. You won't even bear testimony against it b/c you don't even believe it is a Gospel Principle-hence my point!

You are even more proof (and the fact that you use Elder Ballard's talk) that this rot will continue to spread until it is either fully accepted or fully rejected.

You won't even bear a testimony that homosexuality is wrong!!! And there is a huge, huge difference between love and kindness and acceptance. We can love, show kindness to those who disobey the Word of Wisdom in the Church without acceptance. The LGBTQ movement in the Church is about acceptance-not love, not kindness it's about acceptance. And it will cause major, major problems down the road (it is already causing problems).

Update: I know This was pages ago but I bore my testimony about eternal families and the procolamation and marriage between a man and a woman, and no one batted an eye. I guess I've got a good old fashioned ward.

Awesome! You are blessed! I'm glad that is the case.

So one thought I had recently, is that the withdrawal out of BSA by the church had to happen. The signs were there. Some of us felt it even before it happened that it was going to happen soon. This was the Holy Ghost trying to mercifully help us get ready for this and other changes occurring in the church to help stabilize it through the times of troubles that are upon us now.

One of those signals that the BSA withdrawal HAD to happen was that there was a rule before the withdrawal done where gay leaders of BSA were accepted first. This made it so we ultimately already had a stop watch on withdrawal being eminent because under that clause a bunch of LGBTQ people could be forcefully grandfathered in as leaders and then could make a move to force leadership in the church sponsored scout branches later if they just had enough 'noise'.

So they could have engineered forced church acceptance of LGBTQ leaders by getting accepted as scout leaders back east or in a morally corrupt zone and then get status, honor, and position, and then transfer and move to Utah or some other place and it would have set a direct collision with them and LDS scout led area setups.

So that's why the withdrawal was already eminent and on the way about 2 years before the real withdrawal when they allowed conflicting values' of leaders.

Fiannan wrote: ↑February 17th, 2018, 12:37 am

This is such a great video. I mean, I already knew all the content, it’s just very well done , cohesive, and informational.

How typical sounds. Typical of the time before Jesus Christ returns.