LDS Freedom Forum

Jack Vance 79 wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 7:20 pm Probably explains why he began to be so vocal about it - used the mantle to drive a progressive agenda and then got released after 5 years so it all looks okay.

I agree, I think he did his ward a huge disservice. He was IMO a coward about it-he basically knew there was nothing the Church would do since he was already up (unless he really, really went off the rails-i.e. he as Bishop openly advocate for homosexual relationships).

Most horrific, is that he didn't even give the ward an opportunity to sustain his actions. He is does this year 1, members can complain, take it to the SP, can not sustain him as Bishop at the next ward conference, any number of actions that can then be relayed to him and he can face some measure of pushback.

But nope, he didn't give members that opportunity. He and his wife have created a false narrative that this meeting was so great and so wonderful and that EVERYONE just love it, they have never mentioned ANY pushback from ANY member. Their facebook page is meticulously scrubbed-there is NEVER any negative comment (which come on . . .on facebook not one single negative comment on their facebook page advocating for homosexuals??? not at all realistic).

It was a railroaded, slammed through, wham bam, job and if you don't like it-well that means you're and evil, hateful bigoted person. All coached through terms of "love" . . .I really don't think they understand what true Christlike love means.

And then there's this....
Looks like the church really is trying to show more love, compassion and inclusiveness. Something I don’t see from many on this thread.

The conductor of the San Francisco Gay Men’s Chorus will lead the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in a special event in Mountain View, California tonight.
“That’s a headline no one ever thought they would read. Well, it’s true,” Tim Seelig, the chorus’ conductor wrote in a Facebook post. “Tonight, I am the guest conductor for the encore in an amphitheater seats 21,000. Most importantly, I’ll be doing it as an out, proud, gay man – and be introduced as the conductor of the SAN FRANCISCO GAY MEN’S CHORUS. In addition, a group of our singers will be joining the chorus (MoTab) during its rehearsal this afternoon, introduced as SFGMC and sing a song with them. We’ll be wearing our ‘Love Can Build A Bridge’ t-shirts with the rainbow logo!”

RocknRoll wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 9:05 am And then there's this....
Looks like the church really is trying to show more love, compassion and inclusiveness. Something I don’t see from many on this thread.

The conductor of the San Francisco Gay Men’s Chorus will lead the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in a special event in Mountain View, California tonight.
“That’s a headline no one ever thought they would read. Well, it’s true,” Tim Seelig, the chorus’ conductor wrote in a Facebook post. “Tonight, I am the guest conductor for the encore in an amphitheater seats 21,000. Most importantly, I’ll be doing it as an out, proud, gay man – and be introduced as the conductor of the SAN FRANCISCO GAY MEN’S CHORUS. In addition, a group of our singers will be joining the chorus (MoTab) during its rehearsal this afternoon, introduced as SFGMC and sing a song with them. We’ll be wearing our ‘Love Can Build A Bridge’ t-shirts with the rainbow logo!”

Your comment, saying that many on this thread are not showing more love, compassion, and inclusiveness, while the church is, illustrates precisely the method that the Gay Pride movement is using to push their agenda of having gayness, and gay marriage, fully accepted. If any of us are still in the phase that we don't tolerate the sin of gay sexual activity, and the church has moved to the "tolerance" phase, while members like the Augensteins, Ostlers, et al, are embracing gay sexual activity as NOT a sin, then we are criticized and belittled as being haters, bigots, and homophobes.

Congratulations.

RocknRoll wrote: ↑June 26th, 2018, 9:05 am And then there's this....
Looks like the church really is trying to show more love, compassion and inclusiveness. Something I don’t see from many on this thread.

The conductor of the San Francisco Gay Men’s Chorus will lead the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in a special event in Mountain View, California tonight.
“That’s a headline no one ever thought they would read. Well, it’s true,” Tim Seelig, the chorus’ conductor wrote in a Facebook post. “Tonight, I am the guest conductor for the encore in an amphitheater seats 21,000. Most importantly, I’ll be doing it as an out, proud, gay man – and be introduced as the conductor of the SAN FRANCISCO GAY MEN’S CHORUS. In addition, a group of our singers will be joining the chorus (MoTab) during its rehearsal this afternoon, introduced as SFGMC and sing a song with them. We’ll be wearing our ‘Love Can Build A Bridge’ t-shirts with the rainbow logo!”

I despair.

The latest from Susie Augenstein:

"In my ward alone we have six families with a LGBTQ kids or siblings and this is just what I know of. A woman called me from American Fork who has a gay son and told me that they have eight families with LGBTQ children in their ward. With angst in her voice she proceeded to tell me that nobody will talk about it and because of this all of these families and children feel so alone. She said they all wonder where they fit in the plan of salvation. They hear and listen closely to everything that comes out of their fellow latter-day Saints mouths. They hear your testimonies and comments during class. They hear the casual conversations you’re having in the hallways and in your neighborhoods. They see your facial expressions of shame or disgust when you see their child holding hands with their same-sex partner. It is no wonder that these children and their families feel misunderstood and unloved and want to walk away from the church that once gave them so much peace and joy.
We can do better. We don’t have to understand everything to be able to extend an arm of love and understanding to those around us. We just have to be there to listen and let them express their deepest concerns, fears, or thoughts. We are part of the church that believes in continual revelation. We need to join our fellow saints in their prayers asking God for further light and understanding and ask how we can help those around us are struggling to even want to walk through the doors of our churches.
I used to believe that we all just needed to patiently wait upon the Lord, but now I’m beginning to believe that the Lord is patiently waiting on us. How can he give us further light and knowledge when we are not ready for it? When we still have so much prejudice and hatred in our hearts for those who are different from us. He allows us free agency to figure out how to become more like Him. How can we become more like Him if we only love people that are just like us?
I believe that Heavenly Father places all sorts of people in very specific ways into our lives so that he can teach us to love like He does. He does not ask us to judge them or critique them or to see if they are worthy of our love. He just asks us to love them. God will be our most benevolent and kind judge. The only thing that is required from the rest of us is to love.”

Same-sex sex being cool with God = further light and knowledge.

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 7:29 pm

Jack Vance 79 wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 7:20 pm Probably explains why he began to be so vocal about it - used the mantle to drive a progressive agenda and then got released after 5 years so it all looks okay.

I agree, I think he did his ward a huge disservice. He was IMO a coward about it-he basically knew there was nothing the Church would do since he was already up (unless he really, really went off the rails-i.e. he as Bishop openly advocate for homosexual relationships).

Most horrific, is that he didn't even give the ward an opportunity to sustain his actions. He is does this year 1, members can complain, take it to the SP, can not sustain him as Bishop at the next ward conference, any number of actions that can then be relayed to him and he can face some measure of pushback.

But nope, he didn't give members that opportunity. He and his wife have created a false narrative that this meeting was so great and so wonderful and that EVERYONE just love it, they have never mentioned ANY pushback from ANY member. Their facebook page is meticulously scrubbed-there is NEVER any negative comment (which come on . . .on facebook not one single negative comment on their facebook page advocating for homosexuals??? not at all realistic).

It was a railroaded, slammed through, wham bam, job and if you don't like it-well that means you're and evil, hateful bigoted person. All coached through terms of "love" . . .I really don't think they understand what true Christlike love means.

Mgridle, you have a good way of putting things - just right.
Hopefully, the church biggies learn from this and create ways members can express legitimate concerns, otherwise this dysfunctional abuse of ward members’ captive audience may be repeated.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 2:09 pm "In my ward alone we have six families with a LGBTQ kids or siblings and this is just what I know of.

Something stinks to high-heavens here. If (as the proponents like to claim) homosexuals are "born that way", then it means that the actual percentage of homosexuals should stay fairly constant over time.

But yet that isn't the case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demo ... ted_States
"In a Williams Institute review based on an June–September 2012 Gallup poll, approximately 3.4 percent of American adults identify themselves as being LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender),[2] though that number has increased to 4.1% in 2016."

So in this ward, you have 6 families who have LGBTQ children, i.e. AT LEAST 6 children who claim to be LGBTQ. I think it is safe to assume these are YM/YW age (i.e. 12+). So you are telling me that either this ward has over 120 youth and therefore 6 youth represent 5% of the youth (to get to the appropriate statistical representation), OR there is something very, very wrong in this ward that is ENCOURAGING youth to be LGBTQ OR there is some genetic defect going on in this ward.

Hmm . . .I wonder what the cause of that might be??? Statistics people, it's simple, it's easy. Either you are "born with it" or you aren't. If you are born with it then this ward needs to have some scientist get in there and dissect the crap out of the ward to figure out what they are "born" with b/c that high percentage of the youth who are LGBTQ is NOT normal. (Just a high figure would be they represent 15-20% of the youth-30-40 YM/YW, i.e. roughly 5 per year & gender.) Even at 15% that is way, way beyond even the HIGHEST estimates of percentage of the population who is LGBTQ.

No, the most obvious answer is simple. The Bishop and his wife have CORRUPTED the youth! This is so incredibly obvious it boggles the mind that people can't figure this out. Young people are HIGHLY impressionable and they need adults as steady rocks in their lives . . .even if they rebel and say things like "I hate you", then need guidance! And what guidance as a youth are they getting when the Bishop and his wife act like this to homosexuals.

Right . . . they shower them with "love", they have a game night on Sunday night for homosexuals. What message does that send to a young person in their ward?? No game nights for heterosexual youth and if you want to join the game nights you need to either be an ally or a homosexual. For pete's sake, it's so blatantly obvious, the message given is that if I want to be showered with "love" (maybe I'm a young person who is bullied, or depressed or anxious or come from a bad home), I need to be a homosexual.

When this Bishop has to stand before God at the last day and the full scope of the damage that his has done is revealed . . .my God what a sick society we live in.

Members of the Church need to learn and learn very quickly, if you have a homosexualists Bishop, you either need to oppose him with all your might during the sustaining, or if you have kids . . . RUN THE HELL AWAY!!!

B/c if you don't, there is a good chance they will end up being confused.

A very telling thing, Mrs. Augustein said (I don't consider her my Sister) during a podcast that they were sitting around the table discussing Christmas gifts and one her sons said STE mom I know what would be one of the best gifts you want for Christmas, for one of your children to come out as homosexual.

These people are EVIL!!

Thinker wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 4:39 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 7:29 pm

Jack Vance 79 wrote: ↑June 20th, 2018, 7:20 pm Probably explains why he began to be so vocal about it - used the mantle to drive a progressive agenda and then got released after 5 years so it all looks okay.

I agree, I think he did his ward a huge disservice. He was IMO a coward about it-he basically knew there was nothing the Church would do since he was already up (unless he really, really went off the rails-i.e. he as Bishop openly advocate for homosexual relationships).

Most horrific, is that he didn't even give the ward an opportunity to sustain his actions. He is does this year 1, members can complain, take it to the SP, can not sustain him as Bishop at the next ward conference, any number of actions that can then be relayed to him and he can face some measure of pushback.

But nope, he didn't give members that opportunity. He and his wife have created a false narrative that this meeting was so great and so wonderful and that EVERYONE just love it, they have never mentioned ANY pushback from ANY member. Their facebook page is meticulously scrubbed-there is NEVER any negative comment (which come on . . .on facebook not one single negative comment on their facebook page advocating for homosexuals??? not at all realistic).

It was a railroaded, slammed through, wham bam, job and if you don't like it-well that means you're and evil, hateful bigoted person. All coached through terms of "love" . . .I really don't think they understand what true Christlike love means.

Mgridle, you have a good way of putting things - just right.
Hopefully, the church biggies learn from this and create ways members can express legitimate concerns, otherwise this dysfunctional abuse of ward members’ captive audience may be repeated.

It's going to get a whole lot worse . . .

Bryce Cook, the founder of ALL (Arizona LGBT and LDS) states that he is DOUBLY-BLESSED to have 2 sons who are gay.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 6:27 pm Bryce Cook, the founder of ALL (Arizona LGBT and LDS) states that he is DOUBLY-BLESSED to have 2 sons who are gay.

Exactly right, b/c the anti-Christ message isn't just that SSA or homosexual behavior is something one "suffers" with or that it is something to "overcome", no, it is a blessing! And we should be more like them!!!

These people are seriously anti-Christ, as in literally they are against Christ. They set the 2nd Great Commandment "love others" above the First Great Commandment "love God", they do not believe homosexuals can change (which is a core tenant of the Atonement of Christ), nor should they. No where in their message of "love" do they talk about repentance, sin, turning away, redemption, change. They only mention "Love as the Savior loved", which is quite the trope to deceive people who have no clue what Christ's mission was really about. They are for all intents and purposes anti-Christ.

And it will continue and continue until the actual believers in Christ's atoning blood start waking up and realizing "oh wait just a second" this isn't Christ's message . . .

These activists specifically teach the opposite of change. Mr. Cook says he wouldn't change his sons, even if he could, and Mr Ostler says that his hope is that all his LGBT young friends are able to get to the point that if they could push a button and be straight, they would refuse, because they will have reached the point that they know they are perfect just the way they are. Same with the Augensteins -- over and over they tell the LGBT youth and adults that there is nothing wrong or sinful about their orientation. Then they attend their gay marriages, and heap love and roses on a man who left his wife and 7 children to get married to a much younger man. Sickening.

And the thing that bugs the snot out of me is when we talk of suicide. Do we believe in Christ or do we not?

Because if we believe in Christ then the only thing we should be doing to those who are suicidal is pointing them to Christ! Saying we should just love them better won't matter one hill of beans difference, but what will matter is pointing them to the Savior and helping them develop real, genuine trust, faith, and love for the Lord!

He is the only one who can mend the hearts, put back together the soul- it is only through Him, by Him and through His power that individuals can truly be at peace in their souls and with that peace they will never commit suicide.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 6:43 pm Sickening.

Very sickening. One day the Stake President who called him and allowed this behavior and the Bishop will have to stand accountable before God for the damage they have done. I'm not in their ward, I'm not in their jurisdiction and I thank heaven's for that . . .but I'm very aware, if and when it comes to my area, I will not be silent to have this sickness infect my family, I won't have them taught this sickness, and I will oppose any who dares to teach this sickness who I fall under.

https://fox13now.com/2018/07/10/the-lds ... revention/

I wonder about the motivation behind this latest donation by the Church. I'm all for the Church giving money to charitable causes. However, every one of us has a reason and a motivation for the donations and charitable acts that we engage in.
Interesting to me that the Church did not comment on the donation, at least not at the time this article went to press.

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 6:44 pm And the thing that bugs the snot out of me is when we talk of suicide. Do we believe in Christ or do we not?

Because if we believe in Christ then the only thing we should be doing to those who are suicidal is pointing them to Christ! Saying we should just love them better won't matter one hill of beans difference, but what will matter is pointing them to the Savior and helping them develop real, genuine trust, faith, and love for the Lord!

He is the only one who can mend the hearts, put back together the soul- it is only through Him, by Him and through His power that individuals can truly be at peace in their souls and with that peace they will never commit suicide.

True. But, what of the manifest power of Christ Jesus in us not only for those it aids but for our eventual bennefit?
Matthew 25


31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 6:21 pm https://fox13now.com/2018/07/10/the-lds ... revention/

I wonder about the motivation behind this latest donation by the Church. I'm all for the Church giving money to charitable causes. However, every one of us has a reason and a motivation for the donations and charitable acts that we engage in.
Interesting to me that the Church did not comment on the donation, at least not at the time this article went to press.

Lol . . .this is too funny.
https://affirmation.org/its-time-for-us ... -together/

"Important new research that supports Affirmation’s recognition of this issue was recently conducted by Dr. Brian Simmons at the University of Georgia. Dr. Simmons study specifically addresses negative LDS beliefs regarding sexual or gender identity and how they are impacting LGBTQ+ Mormons. Simmons’ data indicates “that study participants overwhelmingly perceived LDS teachings, messages, and experiences associated with their gender or sexual identity to be harmful.”

Perhaps the most shocking data Simmons found was that, “overall, nearly three-quarters (73.4%) of respondents would have likely met criteria for Post-traumatic Stress Disorder. This estimation of PTSD prevalence among study respondents is ten times greater than the approximately 8% for the general U.S. adult population.”

It's like the Church is intentionally committing suicide on this issue. Hey, I've got a great idea, I'm going to give money to an antogonistic group that stands against everything I stand for that openly advocates that what we teach is increasing suicides!

Brillant! just Brillant! It's almost like there are individuals inside the Church who are intentionally committing suicide on this issue.

Oh look with some googlefu we find:
https://cviog.uga.edu/about-us/faculty- ... mmons.html

Graduated Fall 2017

Brian Simmons, Ph.D.
Dissertation title: Coming out Mormon: An examination of religious orientation, spiritual trauma, and PTSD among Mormon and ex-Morman LGBTQQA adults

https://athenaeum.libs.uga.edu/handle/10724/38227
https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/simmons_ ... 12_phd.pdf

So we have a young millennial PhD who just recently got it (and he moved from 2 other colleges to get it . ..) Pro-tip, generally speaking you get your PhD from the college you get your Master's at so to go to 3 different colleges (one for BS, one for MS, and one for PhD) is pretty rare. Most likely he couldn't find any professor at BYU or the UofU who would actually allow him to write his dissertation.

And his dissertation (from what I've gathered) is basically a thinly veneered anti-Mormon rant couched in "research" based upon the opinion of a bunch of ex-Mormon LGBTQ! Of course they are going to say the Church's teachings are harmful. And the guy took 7 years!! to get his PhD after his Masters. Dude, unless you are working full-time 7 years is a RIDICULOUS amount of time to get a PhD . . .it basically means you SUCK at whatever research you are doing (caveat for people who work-full time and go to school).

So ah yes, the LGBTQ community found an "ally" who is a PhD "doctor" who can give "legitimacy" to their claims . . .cry me a river-this guy is a glorified professional SJW. I guess it is true PhD's these days aren't worth the paper they are printed on . . .

The Church has really taken to heart Christ's teaching "And if any man will sue thee at the law, and. take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also" . . .

Okay guys-good luck. You basically just gave Mr. Simmons here 3 month's living salary to do anti-Mormon research . . .you'd think people would learn how to use google-took me like less than 5 min. to find this out (le sigh).

JaredBees wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 8:26 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 6:44 pm And the thing that bugs the snot out of me is when we talk of suicide. Do we believe in Christ or do we not?

Because if we believe in Christ then the only thing we should be doing to those who are suicidal is pointing them to Christ! Saying we should just love them better won't matter one hill of beans difference, but what will matter is pointing them to the Savior and helping them develop real, genuine trust, faith, and love for the Lord!

He is the only one who can mend the hearts, put back together the soul- it is only through Him, by Him and through His power that individuals can truly be at peace in their souls and with that peace they will never commit suicide.

True. But, what of the manifest power of Christ Jesus in us not only for those it aids but for our eventual bennefit?

Love the scripture, I'm just not sure what you are driving at? Could you expound?

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 8:38 pm

JaredBees wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 8:26 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 6:44 pm And the thing that bugs the snot out of me is when we talk of suicide. Do we believe in Christ or do we not?

Because if we believe in Christ then the only thing we should be doing to those who are suicidal is pointing them to Christ! Saying we should just love them better won't matter one hill of beans difference, but what will matter is pointing them to the Savior and helping them develop real, genuine trust, faith, and love for the Lord!

He is the only one who can mend the hearts, put back together the soul- it is only through Him, by Him and through His power that individuals can truly be at peace in their souls and with that peace they will never commit suicide.

True. But, what of the manifest power of Christ Jesus in us not only for those it aids but for our eventual bennefit?

Love the scripture, I'm just not sure what you are driving at? Could you expound?

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48787&p=867094#p867094

mgridle1 wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 8:38 pm

JaredBees wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 8:26 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 27th, 2018, 6:44 pm And the thing that bugs the snot out of me is when we talk of suicide. Do we believe in Christ or do we not?

Because if we believe in Christ then the only thing we should be doing to those who are suicidal is pointing them to Christ! Saying we should just love them better won't matter one hill of beans difference, but what will matter is pointing them to the Savior and helping them develop real, genuine trust, faith, and love for the Lord!

He is the only one who can mend the hearts, put back together the soul- it is only through Him, by Him and through His power that individuals can truly be at peace in their souls and with that peace they will never commit suicide.

True. But, what of the manifest power of Christ Jesus in us not only for those it aids but for our eventual bennefit?

Love the scripture, I'm just not sure what you are driving at? Could you expound?

Christ has no body on Earth but yours, no hands but yours, no feet but yours. Yours are the eyes through which Christ's compassion for the world is to look out. Yours are the feet with which He is to go about doing good, and yours are the hands with which He is to bless us now.

“Nothing makes you happier than when you really reach out in mercy to someone who is badly hurt.”

Be the living expression of God’s kindness; kindness in your face, kindness in your eyes, kindness in your smile.

Words which do not give the light of Christ increase the darkness.

-Finrock

I have to admit, I have come against God one or two times. Not to be rebellious or anything. I just have a strong will. And so I have to argue out my "just" cause. The problem is, what I have learned with God, is I can argue, plead, beg, manipulate, and even throw a tempter tantrum...but He doesn't bend reality to my will. I always have to accept His will.

Nonetheless, I know He always loves me, He gives me His Holy Spirit (unless I push Him away), He shows me how to be happy.

Never in my relationship with God has He allowed me to bend reality, no matter how many times I told Him He must not love me or He would accept my false beliefs.

God is truth and God is love. God loves us unconditionally, but it is up to us whether or not we love the truth. Because that never changes. The more truth we receive the higher kingdom in which we can dwell.

I accept everyone and I do not want anyone to feel alone. Even those who reject traditional marriage, I accept them with no judgement. That is the blessing of free will. We all get to be who we want to be. We are here to be, and we are so we can have joy. That to some means a homosexual lifestyle. Not everyone wants the celestial kingdom because it requires a celestial law, just like not every beginning flute player would feel comfortable being a member of the London Symphony. We get to play where we are comfortable and to some that means playing with a group that is out of tune. I don't mean to be shameful or derogatory at all. I myself as a flutist sometimes enjoy the out of tune groups because honestly they can lighten up and have more fun. That is why we are...we are here to be happy. It's when we want more happiness that we reach out and God gives us another law to obey to fulfill our next desire for happiness.

Someone who wants to commit suicide for not being accepted as gay, that person is on baby step 1, they need to find a God who loves them unconditionally no matter what. It doesn't matter that homosexuality is against God's celestial law right now. They still haven't found joy in a telestial experience. In fact, they want to lose even that because they don't feel accepted. That is sad. Anyone here on this planet ought to feel wanted and loved. And if people don't accept you for you, well I say it's time to pull out the rebellious music and play/sing your heart out because that isn't right.

But let's not confuse the truth. If you want the celestial kingdom then there is a celestial law you have to follow and no amount of whining is going to get that law changed.

True happiness is not found right away, but it is eventually found if you enter the gate, walk in faith, and keep the commandments. Yes, everyone needs a rebellious period here and there so we can figure out what it is we really want. But the times comes where you can finally see the difference between bitter and sweet, so you can know to choose the good.

D&C 88:35

That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still

Juliet wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 10:39 pm I have to admit, I have come against God one or two times. Not to be rebellious or anything. I just have a strong will. And so I have to argue out my "just" cause. The problem is, what I have learned with God, is I can argue, plead, beg, manipulate, and even throw a tempter tantrum...but He doesn't bend reality to my will. I always have to accept His will.

Nonetheless, I know He always loves me, He gives me His Holy Spirit (unless I push Him away), He shows me how to be happy.

Never in my relationship with God has He allowed me to bend reality, no matter how many times I told Him He must not love me or He would accept my false beliefs.

God is truth and God is love. God loves us unconditionally, but it is up to us whether or not we love the truth. Because that never changes. The more truth we receive the higher kingdom in which we can dwell.

I accept everyone and I do not want anyone to feel alone. Even those who reject traditional marriage, I accept them with no judgement. That is the blessing of free will. We all get to be who we want to be. We are here to be, and we are so we can have joy. That to some means a homosexual lifestyle. Not everyone wants the celestial kingdom because it requires a celestial law, just like not every beginning flute player would feel comfortable being a member of the London Symphony. We get to play where we are comfortable and to some that means playing with a group that is out of tune. I don't mean to be shameful or derogatory at all. I myself as a flutist sometimes enjoy the out of tune groups because honestly they can lighten up and have more fun. That is why we are...we are here to be happy. It's when we want more happiness that we reach out and God gives us another law to obey to fulfill our next desire for happiness.

Someone who wants to commit suicide for not being accepted as gay, that person is on baby step 1, they need to find a God who loves them unconditionally no matter what. It doesn't matter that homosexuality is against God's celestial law right now. They still haven't found joy in a telestial experience. In fact, they want to lose even that because they don't feel accepted. That is sad. Anyone here on this planet ought to feel wanted and loved. And if people don't accept you for you, well I say it's time to pull out the rebellious music and play/sing your heart out because that isn't right.

But let's not confuse the truth. If you want the celestial kingdom then there is a celestial law you have to follow and no amount of whining is going to get that law changed.

True happiness is not found right away, but it is eventually found if you enter the gate, walk in faith, and keep the commandments. Yes, everyone needs a rebellious period here and there so we can figure out what it is we really want. But the times comes where you can finally see the difference between bitter and sweet, so you can know to choose the good.

D&C 88:35

That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still

There is no happiness in sin... Those who receive telestial kingdom do so after spending the Millennium in Hell. Those who don't warn their fellow man of this are cheating their calling

8 Now, the decrees of God are unalterable; therefore, the way is prepared that whosoever will may walk therein and be saved.

9 And now behold, my son, do not risk one more offense against your God upon those points of doctrine, which ye have hitherto risked to commit sin.

10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.

11 And now, my son, all men that are in a state of nature, or I would say, in a carnal state, are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; they are without God in the world, and they have gone contrary to the nature of God; therefore, they are in a state contrary to the nature of happiness.

12 And now behold, is the meaning of the word restoration to take a thing of a natural state and place it in an unnatural state, or to place it in a state opposite to its nature?

13 O, my son, this is not the case; but the meaning of the word restoration is to bring back again evil for evil, or carnal for carnal, or devilish for devilish—good for that which is good; righteous for that which is righteous; just for that which is just; merciful for that which is merciful.

NIGHTLIGHT wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 11:03 pm

Juliet wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 10:39 pm I have to admit, I have come against God one or two times. Not to be rebellious or anything. I just have a strong will. And so I have to argue out my "just" cause. The problem is, what I have learned with God, is I can argue, plead, beg, manipulate, and even throw a tempter tantrum...but He doesn't bend reality to my will. I always have to accept His will.

Nonetheless, I know He always loves me, He gives me His Holy Spirit (unless I push Him away), He shows me how to be happy.

Never in my relationship with God has He allowed me to bend reality, no matter how many times I told Him He must not love me or He would accept my false beliefs.

God is truth and God is love. God loves us unconditionally, but it is up to us whether or not we love the truth. Because that never changes. The more truth we receive the higher kingdom in which we can dwell.

I accept everyone and I do not want anyone to feel alone. Even those who reject traditional marriage, I accept them with no judgement. That is the blessing of free will. We all get to be who we want to be. We are here to be, and we are so we can have joy. That to some means a homosexual lifestyle. Not everyone wants the celestial kingdom because it requires a celestial law, just like not every beginning flute player would feel comfortable being a member of the London Symphony. We get to play where we are comfortable and to some that means playing with a group that is out of tune. I don't mean to be shameful or derogatory at all. I myself as a flutist sometimes enjoy the out of tune groups because honestly they can lighten up and have more fun. That is why we are...we are here to be happy. It's when we want more happiness that we reach out and God gives us another law to obey to fulfill our next desire for happiness.

Someone who wants to commit suicide for not being accepted as gay, that person is on baby step 1, they need to find a God who loves them unconditionally no matter what. It doesn't matter that homosexuality is against God's celestial law right now. They still haven't found joy in a telestial experience. In fact, they want to lose even that because they don't feel accepted. That is sad. Anyone here on this planet ought to feel wanted and loved. And if people don't accept you for you, well I say it's time to pull out the rebellious music and play/sing your heart out because that isn't right.

But let's not confuse the truth. If you want the celestial kingdom then there is a celestial law you have to follow and no amount of whining is going to get that law changed.

True happiness is not found right away, but it is eventually found if you enter the gate, walk in faith, and keep the commandments. Yes, everyone needs a rebellious period here and there so we can figure out what it is we really want. But the times comes where you can finally see the difference between bitter and sweet, so you can know to choose the good.

D&C 88:35

That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still

There is no happiness in sin... Those who receive telestial kingdom do so after spending the Millennium in Hell. Those who don't warn their fellow man of this are cheating their calling

8 Now, the decrees of God are unalterable; therefore, the way is prepared that whosoever will may walk therein and be saved.

9 And now behold, my son, do not risk one more offense against your God upon those points of doctrine, which ye have hitherto risked to commit sin.

10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.

11 And now, my son, all men that are in a state of nature, or I would say, in a carnal state, are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; they are without God in the world, and they have gone contrary to the nature of God; therefore, they are in a state contrary to the nature of happiness.

12 And now behold, is the meaning of the word restoration to take a thing of a natural state and place it in an unnatural state, or to place it in a state opposite to its nature?

13 O, my son, this is not the case; but the meaning of the word restoration is to bring back again evil for evil, or carnal for carnal, or devilish for devilish—good for that which is good; righteous for that which is righteous; just for that which is just; merciful for that which is merciful.

Yes, there is no happiness in sin long term. I think people have to have a chance to wake up to that.

If people are like me, sometimes it seems justified to exchange one hell for another for a time being, such as to live a certain lifestyle instead of grieve emotional issues of say distrust and learn to forgive and let go of resentment to say one gender or the other. Once you are trapped or addicted in sin getting out can be a sorrowful process but worth it. Like when Alma the younger came to the truth of the harrowing nature of his sins. People need to be warned and we need to help them get to that place. But that requires a foundation of trust to be built.

Jesus has to lead people to want the truth because there gets to be a point where like young Moroni, his mouth was shut because of the wickedness and hard hearts of society.

People can be deceived to think they are happy in sin in which case preaching is
only helpful under the Holy Spirit's love and discretion.

My discernment is in this case people need to understand their own acceptamce where they are even if in hell in order to turn them to Jesus and make them want more truth because in the case of homosexuality, people struggle to accept who they really are , and of course that is painful.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 6:21 pm https://fox13now.com/2018/07/10/the-lds ... revention/

I wonder about the motivation behind this latest donation by the Church. I'm all for the Church giving money to charitable causes. However, every one of us has a reason and a motivation for the donations and charitable acts that we engage in.
Interesting to me that the Church did not comment on the donation, at least not at the time this article went to press.

$25,000 is pretty cheap PR!

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑July 10th, 2018, 6:21 pm https://fox13now.com/2018/07/10/the-lds ... revention/

I wonder about the motivation behind this latest donation by the Church. I'm all for the Church giving money to charitable causes. However, every one of us has a reason and a motivation for the donations and charitable acts that we engage in.
Interesting to me that the Church did not comment on the donation, at least not at the time this article went to press.

It just gets worse.