LDS Freedom Forum

80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

81 Now, unto what shall I liken the children of Zion? I will liken them unto the parable of the woman and the unjust judge, for men ought always to pray and not to faint, which saith—

82 There was in a city a judge which feared not God, neither regarded man.

83 And there was a widow in that city, and she came unto him, saying: Avenge me of mine adversary.

84 And he would not for a while, but afterward he said within himself: Though I fear not God, nor regard man, yet because this widow troubleth me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.

85 Thus will I liken the children of Zion.

86 Let them importune at the feet of the judge;

87 And if he heed them not, let them importune at the feet of the governor;

88 And if the governor heed them not, let them importune at the feet of the president;

89 And if the president heed them not, then will the Lord arise and come forth out of his hiding place, and in his fury vex the nation;

90 And in his hot displeasure, and in his fierce anger, in his time, will cut off those wicked, unfaithful, and unjust stewards, and appoint them their portion among hypocrites, and unbelievers;

91 Even in outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth.

92 Pray ye, therefore, that their ears may be opened unto your cries, that I may be merciful unto them, that these things may not come upon them.

93 What I have said unto you must needs be, that all men may be left without excuse;

94 That wise men and rulers may hear and know that which they have never considered;

95 That I may proceed to bring to pass my act, my strange act, and perform my work, my strange work, that men may discern between the righteous and the wicked, saith your God.

Doctrine and Covenants 101

I feel the above may be applicable to our current situation. Are there any others that understand? What are your thoughts?

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 7th, 2018, 5:07 pm
Doesn't surprise me in the least bit. 10 years ago had you asked if about it, I would have said homosexual "marriage" should be dealt by the states and the best solution is to get government out of it and that if it were legalized it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I bought hook, line and sinker the idea that well it's a sin but it doesn't affect me so whatever.

That is such a big lie, b/c it was never about homosexual marriage-it was about convincing the public that homosexuality isn't wrong and even worse that homosexuality is GOOD and anyone that thinks homosexuality is wrong is an evil person. It has never been about "equal" rights, it's always been about completely switching the cultural mores so that what was once universally thought of as wrong is now almost universally thought of as good.

If we had actually gone down that road of removing government from marriage it would have taken the wind out of the sails of the LGBTQ+++ group as they've used the marriage hammer to open up indoctrinating the youth and as a legal path to other areas. That was never a realistic political goal anyway, so the strategy was to double down on putting the line in the sand in written constitutions. Since we don't have the support of the corrupt courts nor the political fortitude to clean them up it was a doomed strategy.

There is no way to compromise with this group. To understand the mentality it helps to understand the nature of the disorder - at least in the beginning. Part of the whole point of being homosexual was the depravity, the shock value it would provide to others. The thrill that came from throwing new shocking lows into the face of others. This person doesn't really want to be accepted and actually finds acceptance repugnant, but glories in bringing another lower. To be gay in the 90s typically meant that you were on this level of evil.

With the growth of the movement there are more... moderate... groups that have appeared that is more interested in the personal vices themselves. But the core is still at the helm of the movement.

There is no quarter or mercy with this group and it has ever been so since they kicked things off. Their victories only embolden them and compromise does not satiate their desires as it's not the conclusion they are interested in. They are in it to corrupt others and it is the act of corrupting that they relish. For which there is no end until every person they can possibly reach has zero self control. At which point they wouldn't even know what to do with themselves, but probably find another vice that still has shock value.

One of the interesting historical tidbits of the whole debate is Mitt Romney's position and role in it. This movement got legs in MA under governor Romney. There was a group that had a bill in the legislature right after the marriage law was struck down to remove the judge using a simple "no confidence" vote, a power the legislature had. Simple political move to establish a pattern for dealing with activist judges of all stripes and would have provided a nice bulwark example against the encroachment of this iniquity nation wide. Romney, as the executive power, could have spear headed it and championed it and stamped out this evil for probably another decade (or maybe I'm naive, but I think the example of a severe butt kicking in MA and actual consequences to corrupt judges would have been a potent setback).

I'm pretty sure Romney had a meeting with his main political advisor at the time where he discussed his options. Do the right thing and kill gay marriage in it's infancy, and probably kill his long term political career in the process. Or suppress the bill in the legislature so it never saw the light of day, and receive support for greater political heights. He followed his ambition, probably believing in his heart that he could do so much more good as president and that gay marriage was just not an important issue.

You literally can not make this stuff up, from the Mormon Building Bridges (aka Mormons for everything LGBTQetc) facebook page:

"Hi friends. I’m a formerly Mormon, returned missionary Drag Queen here in Salt Lake. I lived around the world, but ended up back here in Utah because the Mormons are still my people.

It’s frustrating to see so much anti-Mormon sentiment in the gay community and at drag shows. I consider myself an ally for open-hearted Mormons who are trying to work out their issues with this difficult topic of homosexuality.

I would be interested in hosting a family-friendly drag show (G-Rated) followed by a questions-and-answers session and very loving discussion about being gay, Mormon, and specifically how to deal with suicidal feelings. I’m hoping other formerly LDS drag queens will join us.

I’m not sure where we could host such an event, but family-friendly drag is not readily available. Unfortunately, googling any mainstream drag queen media usually contains explicit content.

If you’d be interested in this, or you have ideas on how to move forward with this idea, please message me.

I’m also here for anyone struggling who needs a sympathetic ear. I’ve been through hell and back with my family. But miracles are possible.

Love, faith and hugs to all of you."

The final comment is a kicker:
"Here is an idea. If you really want to build a bridge between Mormon community and lgbt community, and maybe give local mormon leaders a chance to earn a better reputation from the lgbt community, maybe ask local Bishops to allow people to come to church in drag. Start with a once a year thing and then maybe more often, and gradually increase the number of wards where its allowed and spread it across the country until the General Authorities step in and either ban it or endorse it."

It's almost like a twilight world:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CtjhWhw2I8

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 8th, 2018, 4:26 am You literally can not make this stuff up, from the Mormon Building Bridges (aka Mormons for everything LGBTQetc) facebook page:

"Hi friends. I’m a formerly Mormon, returned missionary Drag Queen here in Salt Lake. I lived around the world, but ended up back here in Utah because the Mormons are still my people.

It’s frustrating to see so much anti-Mormon sentiment in the gay community and at drag shows. I consider myself an ally for open-hearted Mormons who are trying to work out their issues with this difficult topic of homosexuality.

I would be interested in hosting a family-friendly drag show (G-Rated) followed by a questions-and-answers session and very loving discussion about being gay, Mormon, and specifically how to deal with suicidal feelings. I’m hoping other formerly LDS drag queens will join us.

I’m not sure where we could host such an event, but family-friendly drag is not readily available. Unfortunately, googling any mainstream drag queen media usually contains explicit content.

If you’d be interested in this, or you have ideas on how to move forward with this idea, please message me.

I’m also here for anyone struggling who needs a sympathetic ear. I’ve been through hell and back with my family. But miracles are possible.

Love, faith and hugs to all of you."

The final comment is a kicker:
"Here is an idea. If you really want to build a bridge between Mormon community and lgbt community, and maybe give local mormon leaders a chance to earn a better reputation from the lgbt community, maybe ask local Bishops to allow people to come to church in drag. Start with a once a year thing and then maybe more often, and gradually increase the number of wards where its allowed and spread it across the country until the General Authorities step in and either ban it or endorse it."

It's almost like a twilight world:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CtjhWhw2I8

Speaking of drag, here is a message for those who subtly want to expose homosexual behavior to congregations until it is excepted.

Alma 30:60
60 And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell.

A practicing homosexual should want to repent, having a broken heart and a contrite spirit, lowliness of heart and sorrow in their soul.

Not wanting everyone to except their sinful activity.

Maybe his ward should order some of these:

https://www.facebook.com/clevverinother ... 0NzU2Nzc1/

Fiannan wrote: ↑June 8th, 2018, 8:08 am Maybe his ward should order some of these:

https://www.facebook.com/clevverinother ... 0NzU2Nzc1/

"Disney unveils rainbow Mickey ears just in time for pride month!" Yay!! Let's go, peeps! Gay days at Disney (but then, aren't ALL days at Disney gay??) - drag queens wanting to attend LDS Church meetings as drag queens - literally taking pride in perversions. Fun times!

When I heard of Mormons building bridges I thought "we don't need bridges we have the iron rod..."

Bridges to what??

ElizaRSkousen wrote: ↑June 8th, 2018, 1:50 pm When I heard of Mormons building bridges I thought "we don't need bridges we have the iron rod..."

Bridges to what??

when the bridge breaks, where will the fall lead?

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2018, 4:47 pm From his column. . . let's reword things just a bit shall we?
----------------
I did not choose to be attracted to little children. (I already knew this one.)

If God had wanted me to stop being attracted to little children in this lifetime, He’d have provided a way for me to do so.

Since He didn’t, that must mean that being attracted to little children is what God wants for me.

Ergo, I don’t need to hide my orientation from God or anyone else, or compartmentalize it away from the rest of me. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
--------------------
See. Presto Bingo, Pedophilia is now ordained by God!

Oh the devil he is a willy one.

I think it was your spelling of "willy" that he found most entertaining:

https://twitter.com/EricDSnider/status/ ... 5187900416

captainfearnot wrote: ↑June 8th, 2018, 3:08 pm

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2018, 4:47 pm From his column. . . let's reword things just a bit shall we?
----------------
I did not choose to be attracted to little children. (I already knew this one.)

If God had wanted me to stop being attracted to little children in this lifetime, He’d have provided a way for me to do so.

Since He didn’t, that must mean that being attracted to little children is what God wants for me.

Ergo, I don’t need to hide my orientation from God or anyone else, or compartmentalize it away from the rest of me. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
--------------------
See. Presto Bingo, Pedophilia is now ordained by God!

Oh the devil he is a willy one.

I think it was your spelling of "willy" that he found most entertaining:

https://twitter.com/EricDSnider/status/ ... 5187900416

Lol . . . .I'm FAMOUS!!! AWESOME!! I can say for the first time in my life, I've been quoted on Twitter. I HAVE ARRIVED BABY!!!

Just for Eric, I know all the twitters, I know them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-z71zxVeE

It is unfortunate though that instead of actually addressing the content of the comment he decided to make fun of it; except that I do actually like that he tweeted it-it shows how delusional he is that he can't see the corollary between the two.

And it continues to spread:
From the facebook group Mormon building bridges:

"Additionally, our stake president announced at stake conference on Sunday that our stake would be creating an LGBTQIA support group!"

In Boston, MA.

Again my prediction at some point some part of the Church will fully embrace this.

[Update: It looks like the Parade Committee has told the denied groups that they may reapply.]

The Freedom Festival parade committee in Provo UT has denied the applications of 5 LGBTQ support groups, to march in the 4th of July parade. They also denied at least 17 other groups for whatever reason. Over on the Augensteins FB page Richard Ostler, pro-LGBT, and current SLC Temple ordinance worker, posted this:

What do the Boston 1967 Race Officials and the 2018 Provo Freedom Festival Officials have in common?

In 1967 the majority of society believed that women lack the ability to run a marathon. Should be excluded. Katherine Switzer and her coach felt differently so she decided to run the marathon. During the race, officials grabbed at her number to remove her from the race.
In 2017, 50 years later, Katherine ran the race (with the same number) as a celebrated participant. For me, seeing women run marathons has always been normal and accepted. I was stunned to learn of this story a few years ago. But what would I have done in 1967? I hope I would have been thoughtful enough (especially if I were an official) to wonder what biases I held, look at the scientific data, talked to women runners, and made a more thoughtful decision.

I believe our children and grandchildren will read the story unfolding before us in 2018 of the Provo Freedom Festival's decision to exclude all 5 LGBTQ support groups that applied from the parade with disbelief. Disbelief that we define being patriotic by excluding members of the human family ... God's LGBTQ children. (Note: There are more the 5 LGBTQ support groups/organizations).

Maybe they will also read 2018 stories of the spike in LGBTQ suicides and wonder why we couldn't 'see' the message this decision sends to God's LGBTQ children about their worth or place in society.

We need to do better. I believe Christ would welcome these LGBTQ groups and all members of the human family into the parade. He would focus first on the most marginalized by society and take extra measures to make sure they are included. I believe He would walk with them and give them a celebrated spot at the front of the parade.

With Love, Richard Ostler

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm The Freedom Festival parade committee in Provo UT has denied the applications of 5 LGBTQ support groups, to march in the 4th of July parade. They also denied at least 17 other groups for whatever reason.

And as it turns out, they were well within their legal rights to do so, from what I've been able to determine! Seems LGBT status is a protected class in Utah for nondiscrimination when it comes to things like employment and housing (mostly), but exclusion from participation in public events is perfectly legal!

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 3:28 pm [Update: It looks like the Parade Committee has told the denied groups that they may reapply.]

Yeah, it sounds like there was more backlash against the decision than the parade committee expected.

Well that didn't take long. All 5 LGBT groups are now welcome to participate in the parade.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 7:14 pm Well that didn't take long. All 5 LGBT groups are now welcome to participate in the parade.

The velvet mafia strikes again. When will people wake up to the tactics these thugs and bullies use? When will someone stand up to them and tell them to go take a long walk off a short pier?

When you don't stand up to bullies and thugs all you do is continue to enable and embolden them

I must say, I do find it laughable when these "allies" of the lgbtqetc. get taken down by those who are part of the velvet mafia. It really is almost comical to see how much they are lead around like little puppies by the mafia.

For example in https://www.facebook.com/susie.augenste ... 6333268884
Susie states that lgbtqetc are our "greatest test"-i.e. that learning to love them is a great test for us . . .of course the velvet mafia didn't like that verbage, issued a smack-down and she had to add the bit it at the end.. .

As one of the commentators put it: "I long for a time when our brothers and sisters Don’t see it as a test, but as a privilege."

And that is exactly right that is the end of all this, it is to elevate the sick, twisted, perverted as being AWESOME!!. Because you see LGBTQetc, it's not a test, it's not a problem it's a "privilege"!!

Lol . . .I mean it's so incredibly laughable unless you've been deceived by Satan. Being attracted to the same sex, whereby if it were practiced widespread would result in the elimination of humanity is a PRIVILEGE!!!!

And she also posted a video about the Proclamation on the Family and LGBTQ with commentary from a bunch of homosexuals. One of the guys comments was that well the PF never mentions and is silent on LGBTQetc, so we don't really know what their role is in the plan of salvation.
Another "couple" got up and discussed about "marriage between a man and a women" and well that's not really what the PF says, the important thing is the principle of being a parent and then the allies (of which Susie is one) basically advocate that it's totally cool to be in a committed homosexual relationship as long as you base it upon "Gospel principles".

These people are nuts, the way they twist the scriptures to make it mean what they want it to mean.

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 8:07 pm Lol . . .I mean it's so incredibly laughable unless you've been deceived by Satan. Being attracted to the same sex, whereby if it were practiced widespread would result in the elimination of humanity is a PRIVILEGE!!!!

Well, if we want to talk laughable ideas, there's one staring right back at you there.

Even if same-sex relations were to gain 100% complete approval across the entire population of the world, if everyone everywhere decided it's just fine to love whoever you want regardless of gender, there's simply not a high enough rate of exclusively same-sex attraction among humans for that to cause a significant slowing of population growth, let alone cause widespread depopulation or extinction of humanity. If you're going to denigrate "radical homosexualists" as a scheming bunch of degenerate perverts, you really ought to stick to the somewhat-tenable position of "it's morally wrong" rather than resorting to fallacious hyperbole.

There's also a decided irony in calling a group a bunch of thugs and bullies while at the same time throwing at them the sorts of stuff being slung in this thread.

illyume wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 3:38 am

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 14th, 2018, 8:07 pm Lol . . .I mean it's so incredibly laughable unless you've been deceived by Satan. Being attracted to the same sex, whereby if it were practiced widespread would result in the elimination of humanity is a PRIVILEGE!!!!

Well, if we want to talk laughable ideas, there's one staring right back at you there.

Even if same-sex relations were to gain 100% complete approval across the entire population of the world, if everyone everywhere decided it's just fine to love whoever you want regardless of gender, there's simply not a high enough rate of exclusively same-sex attraction among humans for that to cause a significant slowing of population growth, let alone cause widespread depopulation or extinction of humanity. If you're going to denigrate "radical homosexualists" as a scheming bunch of degenerate perverts, you really ought to stick to the somewhat-tenable position of "it's morally wrong" rather than resorting to fallacious hyperbole.

There's also a decided irony in calling a group a bunch of thugs and bullies while at the same time throwing at them the sorts of stuff being slung in this thread.

Oh I'm sorry, did I step on your homosexualists toes?

Either you believe homosexuality is inborn or it is not. If homosexuality is inborn then no matter what any says or does will not change the proportion of individuals who end up practicing homosexuality.

If you do not believe homosexuality is inborn or innate then yes how the world perceives homosexuality WILL have an impact on the proportion of individuals who end up practicing homosexuality.

The birth rate among Western countries is ALREADY below repopulation rates-i.e. there are not enough babies being made to replace the generations that are dying off . . . if we go by Kinsley's satanic idea that 10% of the population is "naturally" homosexual-you immediately remove 10% of the population that is able to you know actually have kids.

So no, it's not lunacy to say what I did-lunacy is anyone who defends this evil practice

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:36 am

...... lunacy is anyone who defends this evil practice

Absolutely spot on.
Utter lunacy of the highest order.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:53 am

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:36 am

...... lunacy is anyone who defends this evil practice

Absolutely spot on.
Utter lunacy of the highest order.

Unfortunately it is popping up all over the place. Mormons Building Bridges, a.k.a homosexual allies inside the Church, i.e. individuals who want homosexuals to have full acceptance inside the Church have parade marches in PRIDE parades all across the US, from Boston, Salt Lake, Atlanta, Pittsburg, Huntsville, DC, etc. it is spreading like wildfire.

And leadership does absolutely nothing . . .except continue to make concessions to the velvet mafia. Oh our doctrine still says it's not right . . .but not really. The doctrine right now is that it's okay to be homosexual except don't act on it . . . . lol that is a conflicting convoluted message and it won't last.

Either it is fully accepted or fully rejected, there is no middle way that is a long term solution. And my guess is that it will be fully accepted in another 15-20 years . . .if that. The massive societal pressures to do so are HUGE and the forces within the Church to do so are HUGE. It's certainly (at this point) not a majority of the membership . . .but it's an very significant minority (maybe at most 25%) and that minority will grow as leadership continues to acquiesce to the velvet mafia.

Stick a fork in it-at some point it will be accepted-it's only a matter of time and what does that look like for the Church when it does happen. . .

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 6:20 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:53 am

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:36 am

...... lunacy is anyone who defends this evil practice

Absolutely spot on.
Utter lunacy of the highest order.

Unfortunately it is popping up all over the place. Mormons Building Bridges, a.k.a homosexual allies inside the Church, i.e. individuals who want homosexuals to have full acceptance inside the Church have parade marches in PRIDE parades all across the US, from Boston, Salt Lake, Atlanta, Pittsburg, Huntsville, DC, etc. it is spreading like wildfire.

And leadership does absolutely nothing . . .except continue to make concessions to the velvet mafia. Oh our doctrine still says it's not right . . .but not really. The doctrine right now is that it's okay to be homosexual except don't act on it . . . . lol that is a conflicting convoluted message and it won't last.

Either it is fully accepted or fully rejected, there is no middle way that is a long term solution. And my guess is that it will be fully accepted in another 15-20 years . . .if that. The massive societal pressures to do so are HUGE and the forces within the Church to do so are HUGE. It's certainly (at this point) not a majority of the membership . . .but it's an very significant minority (maybe at most 25%) and that minority will grow as leadership continues to acquiesce to the velvet mafia.

Stick a fork in it-at some point it will be accepted-it's only a matter of time and what does that look like for the Church when it does happen. . .

If you're right, that'll be me out of the door.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 6:27 am

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 6:20 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:53 am

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:36 am

...... lunacy is anyone who defends this evil practice

Absolutely spot on.
Utter lunacy of the highest order.

Unfortunately it is popping up all over the place. Mormons Building Bridges, a.k.a homosexual allies inside the Church, i.e. individuals who want homosexuals to have full acceptance inside the Church have parade marches in PRIDE parades all across the US, from Boston, Salt Lake, Atlanta, Pittsburg, Huntsville, DC, etc. it is spreading like wildfire.

And leadership does absolutely nothing . . .except continue to make concessions to the velvet mafia. Oh our doctrine still says it's not right . . .but not really. The doctrine right now is that it's okay to be homosexual except don't act on it . . . . lol that is a conflicting convoluted message and it won't last.

Either it is fully accepted or fully rejected, there is no middle way that is a long term solution. And my guess is that it will be fully accepted in another 15-20 years . . .if that. The massive societal pressures to do so are HUGE and the forces within the Church to do so are HUGE. It's certainly (at this point) not a majority of the membership . . .but it's an very significant minority (maybe at most 25%) and that minority will grow as leadership continues to acquiesce to the velvet mafia.

Stick a fork in it-at some point it will be accepted-it's only a matter of time and what does that look like for the Church when it does happen. . .

If you're right, that'll be me out of the door.

Either you have confidence that Christ leads His Church, or you don’t. Do you have confidence in President Nelson, and the other Apostles?

Be nice to people.

Arenera --

No one on this forum has ever said that we shouldn't be nice to LGBT people. However, telling them that their gay sexual activities are NOT sinful is not showing kindness.

Also, Robin Hood said that he would be out the door IF the church eventually says that gay marriage and gay sex are acceptable practices for Mormons. Would you believe that Christ is directing the leadership to come to that decision if that's what happens? The possibility seems remote, but what IF it happens?

It's a fallacy to basically accuse someone of not having confidence in the leadership, when what they have said is a scenario that would cause them to lose that confidence.

I have confidence that my husband is faithful. However, if he cheated on me, I would lose that confidence. However, as long as he hasn't cheated, I don't have a problem. But, if he started going out to lunch with another woman, and talking on the phone with another womanin the middle of the night, and buying romantic gifts for another woman, I would be concerned, and I might say, if he cheats on me, I'm out the door.

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 6:52 am Arenera --

No one on this forum has ever said that we shouldn't be nice to LGBT people. However, telling them that their gay sexual activities are NOT sinful is not showing kindness.

Also, Robin Hood said that he would be out the door IF the church eventually says that gay marriage and gay sex are acceptable practices for Mormons. Would you believe that Christ is directing the leadership to come to that decision if that's what happens? The possibility seems remote, but what IF it happens?

It's a fallacy to basically accuse someone of not having confidence in the leadership, when what they have said is a scenario that would cause them to lose that confidence.

I have confidence that my husband is faithful. However, if he cheated on me, I would lose that confidence. However, as long as he hasn't cheated, I don't have a problem. But, if he started going out to lunch with another woman, and talking on the phone with another womanin the middle of the night, and buying romantic gifts for another woman, I would be concerned, and I might say, if he cheats on me, I'm out the door.

Why work yourself up? Everyone sins.

As the Proclamation on the Family has shown for many years, the Leaders and Christ are aware of what is going on, and have been.

Arenera wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 6:38 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 6:27 am

mgridle1 wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 6:20 am

Robin Hood wrote: ↑June 15th, 2018, 5:53 am

Absolutely spot on.
Utter lunacy of the highest order.

Unfortunately it is popping up all over the place. Mormons Building Bridges, a.k.a homosexual allies inside the Church, i.e. individuals who want homosexuals to have full acceptance inside the Church have parade marches in PRIDE parades all across the US, from Boston, Salt Lake, Atlanta, Pittsburg, Huntsville, DC, etc. it is spreading like wildfire.

And leadership does absolutely nothing . . .except continue to make concessions to the velvet mafia. Oh our doctrine still says it's not right . . .but not really. The doctrine right now is that it's okay to be homosexual except don't act on it . . . . lol that is a conflicting convoluted message and it won't last.

Either it is fully accepted or fully rejected, there is no middle way that is a long term solution. And my guess is that it will be fully accepted in another 15-20 years . . .if that. The massive societal pressures to do so are HUGE and the forces within the Church to do so are HUGE. It's certainly (at this point) not a majority of the membership . . .but it's an very significant minority (maybe at most 25%) and that minority will grow as leadership continues to acquiesce to the velvet mafia.

Stick a fork in it-at some point it will be accepted-it's only a matter of time and what does that look like for the Church when it does happen. . .

If you're right, that'll be me out of the door.

Either you have confidence that Christ leads His Church, or you don’t. Do you have confidence in President Nelson, and the other Apostles?

Be nice to people.

Well you seem to forget that there is something we do each and every General Conference . . . .it's called sustaining. What do you think would happen if a significant portion of the Church refused to sustain any supposed revelation that homosexuality is okay.

The sustaining mechanism is supposed to be a check upon stupidity of leadership to go off the rails-yet for over 100 years it's been taught that it's just what you MUST do.

We have records in Church History about sustaining, BY vs. Rigdeon. This is how major splits and break-offs occur, and the Church has been very stable for a significant period of time. Major split happened in BY time and in 1910, as a Church we haven't had a major breaking off in a very, very long time.

My guess is that this issue will cause a major split. Those who advocate for homosexuality are too many, too well-organized and too motivated for it not to end up with either acceptance or a split. I could be wrong, but as things progress it appears to be heading that way.