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Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: November 25th, 2008, 8:41 pm
by Bircher
This issue is too big and too important to our individual salvation to have a Church program. There were no neutrals in the war in heaven, so there must be none here as well.

If we had a Church program for it, it would be too easy for a lukewarm to check it off his "to do" list. It would be too easy for a well meaning but flawed Bishop to goof up the program which would not just effect him, but all those that followed His council. Etc, etc.

This is one of those few Gospel principles we have to study and apply as the Spirit dictates to us as individuals. The scriptures and Prophets have laid out the principles perfectly, now we have to act and not be acted upon.

Freedom is one of the most important principles of perfection. Are we to become gods, or angels? Choosing to act correctly on this issue, on our own, will be of vital importance to our progression.

This is in the Gospel of Bryan 1:12 ;D

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: November 25th, 2008, 11:06 pm
by lundbaek
Right or wrong, I think some of us are acted upon by the Holy Spirit in a way that we have become aware that as a people, Americans have apostatized in various ways from the US Constitution, and that we are now engaged in preparing ourselves and others to help restore government in accordance with the Constitution. I think there are other good LDSs and others who may be somehow restrained from these things for reasons we do not understand. I certainly can see the importance of, for example, our bishpric and stake presidency focusing on certain other aspects of the Gospel.

It may be that when David O. McKay, J. Reuben Clark, Ezra Taft Benson, Marion G. Romney, Hartman Recktor, and other Church General Authorities told us back in their days what to do to preserve our freedoms, the general lack of righteousness, knowledge and faith of the members prevented the accomplishment of what we were asked to do. I think that if the First Presidency set up a program now to save the Constitution and restore constitutional government to America, it would, as some one suggested earlier here, be too overwhelming for the Church membership as a whole, and as ETB suggested, might "split the Church asunder". I think too many members are just not ready for it, or up to it at this point in time. It may have to wait for a younger generation.

This is, obviously, speculation. I am disinclined to fault, for example, our bishop and stake president for not being as concerned with our Constitution and government as I am, and for not accepting my suggestion of holding a fireside on the subject of "Prophets and the Constitution" as presented by Bircher. I see them struggling with enough on their plate as it is.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: November 26th, 2008, 6:54 am
by WYp8riot
SevenSuns wrote:I have a quote somewhere that states that the "Elders will successfully rally the righteous of this country" and that is how the constitution will be saved.

THAT quote should be posted. I know I have read it before. It would go great on the bussiness cards to hand to LDS along with the scripture references that have been mentioned here on the forum.

-Paul

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: January 27th, 2020, 12:38 pm
by lundbaek
THE SPECIAL IMPORTANCE OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION TO LATTER-DAY SAINTS - The Constitution is in Danger

In the opening address of the October 1987 General Conference, President Ezra Taft Benson asked this question: "Do we know what prophets have said about the Constitution and the threats to it?" Actually, there exists an avalanche of statements by the Lord Jesus Christ, and latter-day prophets and apostles about the United States Constitution and its special significance to Latter-day Saints. And many of those statements refer to statements attributed to the Prophet Joseph Smith about the U.S. Constitution being in jeopardy and being rescued by efforts involving members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. I have selected and quoted below such statements by eight latter-day Presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Joseph Smith
“Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is on the brink of ruin this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction....I know these things by the visions of the Almighty." (July 19, 1840, as recorded by Martha Jane Knowlton Coray; manuscript in Church Historian's Office, Salt Lake City)
"The time will come when the constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the latter-day Saints will step forth to save it." (May 1843, James Burgess Journal, 1818-1904, Church Archives, vol. 1)

Brigham Young
"Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and as Joseph Smith said, "The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction." It will be so." (July 4, 1854, Journal of Discourses, 7:15)
"When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the "Mormon" elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it." (February 18, 1855, Journal of Discourses, 2:182)
"During the lifetime of the Prophet Joseph Smith he predicted that the time would come when it would devolve upon the Latter-day Saints to uplift, defend and maintain the Constitution of the United States." (May 26, 1855, Messages of the First Presidency, 3:12-14)

John Taylor
"...we have been told by Joseph Smith that when the people of this nation would trample upon the Constitution, the Elders of this Church would rally round the flag and defend it." (October 19, 1884, Journal of Discourses, 25:349-50)
"We have prophecies something like this somewhere, that the time would come when this nation would do as they are now doing - that is, they would trample under foot the Constitution and institutions of the nation, and the Elders of this Church would rally around the standard and maintain those principles which were introduced for the freedom and protection of men. We expect to do that, and to maintain all correct principles." (February 1, 1885, Journal of Discourses, 26:156)

Wilford Woodruff
"It is also part of our belief that the time will come when the country will be distracted and general lawlessness prevail. Then the Mormon people will step forward and take an active part in rescuing the nation from ruin." (December 16, 1889, Millennial Star, 50:788)

Lorenzo Snow
"They will sustain the constitution and the laws and institutions of the United States, and be the champions of liberty and of that constitution when its integrity shall be threatened," (September 15, 1898, Journal History of the Church, 3)

Joseph F. Smith
"Joseph Smith, the prophet, predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints, above all other people in the world, would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty." (October 1912, General Conference)

Harold B. Lee
"I concluded by calling attention to the prophecy of Joseph Smith that "the Constitution would hang as by a thread....if such a downfall of the Constitution were imminent, the righteousness of this people might again importune the Almighty to save it because of their pleadings." (August 5, 1973, Bonneville Stake meeting; comments from President Lee's diary, as recorded in Harold B. Lee: Prophet and Seer, 531-32)

Ezra Taft Benson
"We are fast approaching that moment prophesied by Joseph Smith when he said: "Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is on the brink of ruin this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction." (October 1987 General Conference) (July 19, 1840, as recorded by Martha Jane Knowlton Coray; manuscript in Church Historian's Office, Salt Lake City)

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: January 27th, 2020, 7:59 pm
by mahalanobis
Maybe these quotes are "well-considered opinions".

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 1st, 2020, 9:15 am
by SPIRIT
lundbaek wrote: November 10th, 2008, 11:37 am "We are fast approaching that moment prophesied by Joseph Smith when he said: "Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground, and when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin, this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean, and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction." (July 19, 1840, Joseph Smith Collection, LDS Church Historical Department.) (CHB 27-28; revised in TETB 623-24)"

Any thoughts on how "this people" "shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction" any time soon?

I don't don't see that a people who largely keep returning Constitution shredders to Congress and who championed a candidate for president who has promoted unconstitutional principles are ever going to "bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction". At present I can only envision that happening if the First Presidency tells us what to do, just as they did Re. the marriage amendment issues. The Church leadership has for many years now been silent on that principle of the Gospel that requires Latter-day Saints to "befriend" the Constitution.
this simply will not happen. America is destined for total destruction.
This is another quote; as there are many, and whether it be from Joseph Smith or any other church leader,
we simply can not rely on them as truth being said by the spirit.
Our scriptures - the word of God - words of Jesus Christ that the Lord has given us are much more important
and sets the standard for us to follow.
EVERYTHING will happen according to our scriptures. and not exactly to something that someone said -
including Joseph Smith or any other prophet or church leader after him.

to repeat this

A well known LDS writer once wrote a
foreword in a book and said -
"This book might well be entitled
"What you always wanted to know about the Gospel
but were too lazy to find out."
"All answers are in the scriptures, but Latter-day Saints
do not read the scriptures."
Hugh Nibley

READ OUR SCRIPTURES !
All the answers are contained in them.

B of M
Ether 2:11,12)
11 “And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God – that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done.
12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.”

(Ether 2:9,10)
9 “And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.
10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God.
And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.”

Ether says three times "swept off",
but the last time he says it, he doesn't say "if", he says it like it will happen.
"And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.”

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 1st, 2020, 10:35 am
by SPIRIT
America will never be great again. We had our chance.
The Times of The Gentiles is coming to an end.
There will be no more United States of America.
This "choice land" will be swept clean because they do not
"serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ".

The next thing will be Zion.

This "choice land" has been given to the remnants of Jacob, and House of Israel.

why do the scriptures say " build up the waste places of Zion " ?
because America will be swept clean.

Isaiah 51:3 2 Nephi 8:3

3 For Jehovah is comforting Zion,
bringing solace to all her ruins;
he is making her wilderness like Eden,
her desert as the garden of Jehovah.

Joyful rejoicing takes place there,
thanksgiving with the voice of song.

"In the millennial age of peace that follows the mission of Jehovah’s servant, promised lands—a second chief covenant blessing after offspring—transform into a new Paradise (Isaiah 11:1-9; 55:4-13; 65:17-25). Ruins are rebuilt by Jehovah’s elect in Zion who receive inheritances of land (Isaiah 44:26; 58:11-12; 61:4). To those who heed the voice of Jehovah’s servant (Isaiah 28:23; 50:10; 58:1), whose righteousness resembles his righteousness (v 1), all attests to covenant curses—ruins, wilderness, and desert—joyously reversing into covenant blessings" (Isaiah 32:15-20; 35:1-2, 6-7; 58:12)."


D&C 103
11 But verily I say unto you, I have decreed that your brethren which have been scattered shall return to the lands of their inheritances, and shall build up the waste places of Zion.

D&C 101
17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place, notwithstanding her children are scattered.
18 They that remain, and are pure in heart, shall return, and come to their inheritances, they and their children, with songs of everlasting joy, to build up the waste places of Zion—

2 Nephi 15:17 Isaiah 5:17
17 Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat.
“Jehovah will have compassion on Jacob and once again choose Israel; he will settle them in their own land, and proselytes will adhere to them and join the house of Jacob”

Isaiah 58:12
12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

"Jehovah’s returnees to Zion rebuild the ancient ruins under the direction of his servant: “Who fulfills the word of his servant, accomplishes the aims of his messengers, who says of Jerusalem, ‘It shall be reinhabited,’ and of the cities of Judah, ‘They shall be rebuilt, their ruins I will restore’” (Isaiah 44:26); “They will rebuild the ancient ruins, raise up the old waste places; they will renew the desolate cities demolished generations ago” (Isaiah 61:4); “Jehovah is comforting Zion, bringing solace to all her ruins; he is making her wilderness like Eden, her desert as the garden of Jehovah.” (Isaiah 51:3).

Isaiah 52:9
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

"A time of comfort and rejoicing arrives when Jehovah’s people who expiate their iniquities see covenant curses turn into blessings and their desolate circumstances transformed (Isaiah 40:1-2; 49:8-13; 51:3; 61:1-3). With the empowerment of Jehovah’s servant and his associates, a new day dawns for those who ascend to the Zion/Jerusalem level and levels higher. Jehovah “comforts” them in their distress when he “redeems” them—when he releases them from bondage and gathers them home in a new exodus to Zion" (vv 3, 11-12; Isaiah 35:9-10; 43:1-2; 48:20-21; 51:9-12; 54:5-8; 66:12-13).

Very few members will be left after the cleansing
and will be (allowed) to "assist" the remnants of Jacob,
and House of Israel who's land this has been given to;
" to build up the waste places of Zion— "
to be numbered with them; the House of Israel, to build up the New Jerusalem.

3 Nephi 21
23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.
24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.
28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 2nd, 2020, 8:02 am
by SPIRIT
This "choice land" has been given to the remnants of Jacob, and the House of Israel.

3 Nephi 20

10 And it came to pass that when they had all given glory unto Jesus, he said unto them: Behold now I finish the commandment which the Father hath commanded me concerning this people, who are a remnant of the house of Israel.

14 And the Father hath commanded me that I should give unto you this land, for your inheritance.

15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people—

16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.

18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.

19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it.

20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles.

21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel.

22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you.

It's interesting when the Lord says "my people" he means
"the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel"
and not us, the Gentiles (The church and it's members.)
Why isn't it the other way around - If we are favored and are
the Lord's chosen people.?
3 Nephi 21:23,24 and other scriptures above

3 Nephi 21
23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.
24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.
28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.

3 Nephi 21:
12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles,
yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest,
as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who,if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 2nd, 2020, 8:30 am
by lundbaek
Both Joseph Smith and Ezra Taft Benson, during the time they were prophets and presidents of the Church, stated that "this people" shall keep the Constitution from a total destruction. And in between, Presidents Young, Taylor, Woodruff, Snow, JF Smith, and Lee made similar statements during the time each was president of the Church. Their statements are quoted 5 posts before/above this one. Whenever I quote a prophet I am stating my opinion as well. Beyond that, I cannot envision that happening this side of the "Cleansing of America", at which time this land will be shod of people who have been destroying it.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 2nd, 2020, 8:56 am
by SPIRIT
lundbaek wrote: February 2nd, 2020, 8:30 am Both Joseph Smith and Ezra Taft Benson, during the time they were prophets and presidents of the Church, stated that "this people" shall keep the Constitution from a total destruction. And in between, Presidents Young, Taylor, Woodruff, Snow, JF Smith, and Lee made similar statements during the time each was president of the Church. Their statements are quoted 5 posts before/above this one. Whenever I quote a prophet I am stating my opinion as well. Beyond that, I cannot envision that happening this side of the "Cleansing of America", at which time this land will be shod of people who have been destroying it.
so let me get this straight.
You think that after the "Cleansing of America" , that their will still be a Constitution and an America to save, "from a total destruction" ?

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 2nd, 2020, 9:25 am
by lundbaek
I think that after the "Cleansing of America" there will a land possibly devoid of government. The principles of the Constitution will still exist, at least in the minds of some of the survivors.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 2nd, 2020, 10:07 am
by SPIRIT
it's just not the same as these quotes are implying.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: February 2nd, 2020, 10:18 am
by nightlight
No king of this land....BUT JESUS CHRIST.

As long as there is a people who strive/fight for this.....the founding principles of this country live on.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: April 11th, 2020, 8:29 pm
by AnotherLDSPatriot
How often have we heard the words, "Read the Book of Mormon"? How many read it and set it down? Or even read it? My wife visited a sister, and brought up Gadianton ... and the sister's response was "Who's that?". Too many people either don't read it, or they gloss over it. Read it out loud, to yourself; not in whispered or hushed tones, read it as though you were reading it somebody ... because you are: yourself. Read it slowly, contemplatively. Very few of us are Parley P. Pratt for whom "eating was a chore", and he read it, cover to cover, in three days. If you read the Book of Mormon out loud, you'll find so much more than if you simply skim the words or speed-read your way through the book.

If people actually READ the Book of Mormon, they'd discover exactly what the authors thought of this country and the nation that would possess it, that they were willing to die for it BEFORE this nation even existed! Are we like Captain Moroni? Lehi? Teankum? Helaman? Some of us are, most of us are not. They would not be sitting idly by, fretting about another liberty, another right being curtailed, they would be taking action. Remember Captain Moroni's scathing letter to Pahoran? Pahoran wasn't angry because Moroni was right, except it wasn't Pahoran at fault. We need to shut the gates of hell, and lemmings will not do it.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: April 11th, 2020, 9:29 pm
by lundbaek
President Benson, in his October 1987 conference address "Our Divine Constitution" spelled out 5 things that "WE MUST" do. I suggest that if you want to be in the game and/or want your family and progeny to be in the game, do each of those 5 things as clearly spelled out. I advise against waiting to be commanded by the prophet or any other Church authority, unless you want to be on the sidelines.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: April 12th, 2020, 9:41 am
by JohnnyL
I hope I am ready for that time.

I am doing more now with petitions.

I hope to move forward to phone calls and letters.

I have an idea that it could be at the point when America decides to keep on with the Constitution (and all the problems it brings, both from following it and not following it correctly), or switch to a king.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: April 15th, 2020, 10:23 am
by Pseudonym
I see this is a old thread that has been resurrected. It is interesting to me to have observed in my life time the evolution of thought within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints concerning this topic. As one of the few members that have generations dating back to the days of Joseph Smith Jr; I am familiar with stories told by my grandparents of their grandparents that knew Joseph and Brigham. My grandparents thought that the Church would become its own government and country. That freedoms and liberties would be preserved only withing the Church and the physical territories over which the Church would have complete control - spiritually and politically. It was generally believed that the Saints would reestablish the Zion state and government in Missouri and that a great number of the Saints would walk from Utah back to Missouri to establish that governmental Zion state. That this would be the fulfilling of prophesy and means for the preserving the constitution.

Last summer the wife and I went on a Church history tour of sorts driving through Missouri, Nauvoo, Kirkland, New York and Pennsylvania. We took our time and tried to renew ourselves to spiritual things of each place. The one mistake was that this was planned around the Hill Comoriah Pageant and so we encountered large crowds while in the New York Church history areas. Our visits in Missouri was perhaps the most interesting to me. I learned that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has become the single largest owner of land in Missouri. Does this surprise anybody? Most of the land is being leased out for framing. But I did discover in a region near to Adam ondi Ahman with the founatons for a very large infrastructure - out in the middle of no where that would support a development for a population that I would estimate between 200,000 and a half million residents. I spent about a day trying to figure out who owned this development - thinking it may be the Church. But I was unsuccessful.

I told the wife we could sure start some speculation and rumors. I have some connections here in Utah with individuals that ought to know but they are quite sure the Church is not involved in any such developments in Missouri as I had discovered. So why am I even posting such stuff???? The reason is to have an impact on the various speculations going around. I think there are speculators that want to be or want to appear to be, in on what the L-rd is doing with his Saints during the end of times. Such can read libraries of books and prophesies both official scripture and journals of early Saints and still speculate nothing but ignorance and error. So here is my recommendation and speculation:

Follow the Brethren! I am not talking about scholars at BYU or the U of U institute. I am talking about the living Apostles - the prophets, seers and revelators. If the constitution of the USA is to be preserved by the Church it will be directed by and through them. I agree that reading and studying the Book of Mormon should also be part of our background study - but everything that is needed to be known and done over the next 6 months was just made known a couple of weeks ago.

Why speculate when you can access for yourself every needful thing - not just for preserving the constitution for the next 6 months but for your family, your faith and your future.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: April 15th, 2020, 12:34 pm
by lundbaek
There are about a dozen recorded statements by latter-day prophets about the U.S. Constitution being in jeopardy and being rescued by efforts involving members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. As far as I know, none said the Church would save the Constitution, but rather by efforts involving or including members of the Church. And I'm personally aware of a couple of dozen Church members who are thus engaged.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: April 16th, 2020, 6:14 am
by AnotherLDSPatriot
lundbaek wrote: November 14th, 2008, 8:58 am Then I bring up D&C 101: 77-80, which informs us that the Lord established the Constitution of the United States by the hands of wise men whom He raised up for that very purpose. And I tell them that almost all of the latter-day prophets, as well as many latter-day apostles, have declared that the Constitution was created thru the inspiration of the Lord, and they have stressed the vital importance of defending, upholding and adhering to the Constitution. I let them know there exist recordings of many prophetic testimonies bearing solemn witness of this truth, and testify that there is no way around this responsibility if Latter-day Saints wish to remain a free people.
In Doctrines of Salvation Vol. III, Joseph F. Smith speaks at length regarding the Constitution. He said (p.621) that
Our duty is to keep the commandments of the Lord, to walk uprightly, to defend every principle of truth, to sustain and uphold the Constitution of this great country, to remember the Declaration of Independence, for upon these principles our country was based. They stand at the foundation, the cornerstones of the liberty that our fathers fought for, and which brought to pass, according to the word of the Lord, the redemption of this land by the shedding of blood.
That suggests that the founding documents are so much more than most people believe.

On pp.642-3, he adds:
So I say I am troubled; I am concerned over this nation; I am concerned over the nations, because of the wickedness of the people. I can see evil in the trend of the times. I can see anarchy ahead of us. If we are going to permit men, in organized form, to desecrate the sacredness of the laws of this country and the Constitution of this country; if we are going to permit them, in the spirit of anarchy, to take possession of that which does not belong to them, without protest, we are going to reap the whirlwind, just as surely as we live.
"

In that, he calls the Constitution sacred...

Then, on pp.647-8, he devotes an entire section to America and Her Constitution, which I quote in its entirety:
LORD ESTABLISHED CONSTITUTION OF UNITED STATES. No nation has been more greatly blessed than has the United States. We live in a land which has been called choice above all other lands by divine pronouncement. The Lord has watched over it with a jealous care and has commanded its people to serve him lest his wrath be kindled against them and his blessings be withdrawn.

Our government came into existence through divine guidance. The inspiration of the Lord rested upon the patriots who established it, inspired them through the dark days of their struggle for independence, and through the critical period which followed that struggle when they framed our glorious Constitution which guarantees to all the self-evident truth proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence. "that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

That is to say, it is the right of every soul to have equal and unrestricted justice before the law, equal rights to worship according to the dictates of conscience and to labor according to his individual inclinations, independently of coercion or compulsion. That this might be, the Lord has said, "I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

UNITED STATES FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION. The founders of this nation were men of humble faith. Many of them saw in vision a glorious destiny for our government, provided we would faithfully continue in the path of justice and right with contrite spirits and humble hearts, accepting the divine truths which are found in the holy scriptures. The appeal of these men has echoed down the passing years with prophetic warning to the succeeding generations, pleading with them to be true to all these standards which lay at the foundation of our government.

This country was founded as a Christian nation, with the acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Redeemer of the world. It was predicted by a prophet of old that this land would be a land of liberty and it would be fortified against all other nations as long as its inhabitants would serve Jesus Christ; but should they stray from the Son of God, it would cease to be a land of liberty and his anger be kindled against them.

It is a sad reflection, but one that cannot be successfully refuted, that we have forgotten the admonition which has come down to us, just as Israel forgot the commandments which would have blessed that nation in the land of Canaan forever had they been observed. In forsaking these laws we stand in danger of punishment as the people of Israel stood in danger of punishment because they forsook the Lord and failed to repent and accept the warnings of their prophets.

CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD. The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger.

Said Orson Hyde: "I believe he said something like this -- that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: 'If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this Church.' I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it."

Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don't save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.
We, as Latter-day Saints, need to spend more time getting to know these documents if we're expected to save them and they country whose laws are based on them. We cannot be given the greater things until we come to grips, understand and accept the lesser things we've already been given and with which we currently only trifle. If we don't understand the foundations of this country which necessarily undergird the foundations of the Restoration of the Gospel in this last dispensation, we're going to be incapable of playing the role we're supposed to play.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: April 16th, 2020, 11:57 am
by lundbaek
"We, as Latter-day Saints, need to spend more time getting to know these documents if we're expected to save them and they country whose laws are based on them. We cannot be given the greater things until we come to grips, understand and accept the lesser things we've already been given and with which we currently only trifle. If we don't understand the foundations of this country which necessarily undergird the foundations of the Restoration of the Gospel in this last dispensation, we're going to be incapable of playing the role we're supposed to play."

Absolutely! Have you been able to persuade many or any Latter-day Saints to do as you suggest. Here we are on an "LDS Freedom Forum" established to "provide an online home for individuals to associate and discuss Liberty in light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ - this includes a myriad of topics related to the Gospel of Liberty", including "The proper role of government, principles of freedom, gospel principles, political news, current events, last days, the second coming, emergency preparedness, secret combinations (conspiracy), the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ, church history, teachings of the prophets, and much more." And yet it seems to me on those topics too many of us are like NATO -- No Action Talk Only. Truth be known, there are Latter-day Saints who are active in various ways in the freedom battle. Their efforts include:
*running for and serving in elected legislative and executive offices on constitutional principles,
*assisting in the campaigns of constitutional conservative candidates for elected government offices,
*organizing seminars and classes in which the history of America and its founding documents are taught,
*making books like MANY ARE CALLED BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN, THE 5000 YEAR LEAP, DOCTRINES OF LIBERTY, etc. available free or at low cost to interested parties.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: May 9th, 2020, 4:13 pm
by tlyma
lundbaek wrote: April 11th, 2020, 9:29 pm President Benson, in his October 1987 conference address "Our Divine Constitution" spelled out 5 things that "WE MUST" do. I suggest that if you want to be in the game and/or want your family and progeny to be in the game, do each of those 5 things as clearly spelled out. I advise against waiting to be commanded by the prophet or any other Church authority, unless you want to be on the sidelines.
I'm ashamed that I hadn't read this talk until just now - thank you for informing me of it! The past few weeks I've had this question on my mind: how can we better organize and "make our influence felt", especially online where the brunt of this battle is now being fought? Reading this talk has given me some new inspiration to start a couple projects that will hopefully help us do this.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: May 9th, 2020, 5:15 pm
by lundbaek
Don't feel badly about not having read President Benson's address "Our Divine Constitution" until just now. I recently learned that following the October 1987 General Conference our stake presidency at that time discussed it a bit and the stake president decided to do nothing more. It was one of his counselors at the time who told me that.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: May 18th, 2020, 11:19 pm
by righteousrepublic
Police State Dry Run a Huge Success

By Carol Brown

When the coronavirus landed on our shores, communist China came with it.

We have become part of a mass scale human experiment in government control and it turned out that stripping away our freedom wasn’t all that difficult. Under the guise of concern for our health and well-being, tyrants came out of the woodwork. Our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and our lives are being destroyed as the left solidifies and expands their oppressive powers. We’ve been herded around like cattle, threatened, isolated, confined, silenced, and arrested. You name it, it’s happening.

You tell me if what follows sounds like the United States, or China.

We’ve been told who can work and who can’t, with language that separates us according to who is and who isn’t “essential” as the almighty State supersedes individual rights and the family unit.

We’ve been physically and verbally harassed, threatened, fined, detained, arrested, jailed, and/or placed in forced quarantine. Business licenses have been revoked. Going to work without the permission of the government is now a crime. So is going to the park or a beach. Children playing together is also in defiance of the government. So is placing flags on the graves of veterans. The list of infractions goes on and on and on and on. Examples read like the manifesto of a demented madman. (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here) These links are actual examples, please go to website.

Stay home. Do not go out. Do not earn money. Do not pay your bills, feed your family, maintain your credit rating, live your life. Do not make a single move without permission from the State or you will be punished.

Do not dare go to church. They have been shut down, some threatened with permanent closure. Even services that maintained social distancing were not tolerated. (here, here, here, here, here) Actual stories, please go to website.

Religion cannot thrive in a totalitarian state, as the state must reign supreme.

Meanwhile, as churches are closed, jails are opened -- criminals are released en masse, including child predators, rapists, and murderers. Prisoners, wise to the ruse, are now intentionally infecting themselves so they can be released early. And the left can’t get enough of it. (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here) Please go to website.

In several places, our right to protest has been stripped away as has our right to promote protests. Tech tyrants are involved, shutting down social media for those trying to spread the word about peaceful gatherings. The Bill of Rights has been set on fire and tossed off the top of a skyscraper as a police state rushes in. (here, here, here, here, here, here) You got it.

We’ve been subjected to inhumane separations, as the oldest among us are left to suffer alone in nursing homes, senior care facilities, and hospitals where there is often an impenetrable wall of secrecy surrounding patients.

Meanwhile, “contact tracing” has become the next frontier to advance the police state as fascist tech gets in on the act, tracking our every move. The government will hunt you down, find you, and force you and other members of your household to stay in your home, even if there’s no food in the house. The quarantine cycle could leave an entire household locked up for weeks and weeks on end, with no end in sight as we are essentially placed under house arrest. Strategies for how to identify people who’ve met certain criteria have been discussed, including government issued armbands. (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here) By now you should be on a roll.

To help the government keep us in line, we’ve been encouraged to snitch on our neighbors and hotlines have been set up for us to do just that. (here, here, here, here, here) Carol Brown put a lot of work into this project. Kudos to her.

And in keeping with the good for me, but not for thee reality of all oppressive regimes, many prominent leftists have broken their own rules so they could meet their lover, go golfing, take a walk with their family, get a haircut, and so on, all the while pointing their fingers and admonishing us little people to stay inside and do as we’re told. (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here)

For the most part, law enforcement has been willing to follow these tyrannical orders, often with multiple officers arriving on the scene.

As for the American Civil Liberties Union, not only are they missing in action, they’re part of the cabal of tyrants with upside down values, evidenced by the message featured on their home page which states their priorities as follows:

“…protect voting rights, demand that vulnerable people in prisons, jails and immigration detention centers be released, and fight to ensure reproductive health care remains open and accessible to all who need it…”

In other words, voter fraud, prisoner release, illegal invader released, and abortion. (here)

All of this unfolds against the backdrop of an aggressive media campaign to parrot China’s talking points, replete with lavish praise for the communist regime that waged war against the entire world. There’s been a cascade of fools eager to align themselves with WHO and China, including many prominent individuals. The rush to embrace our enemies has resulted in silencing speech, as words such as “Wuhan flu” are deemed “hate speech.” Punishment to be determined. (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here)

And while the lust for power underpins this shocking spectacle, it’s wrapped up in the guise of “safety.” Who could possibly question a doctor in a white coat touting such an idea? No good totalitarian regime would be without its idealized worldview to sell fools down the river.

And so we’ve sailed, as our economy has collapsed, Americans have been controlled, law enforcement has complied, and people are bombarded with fearful messages every hour of every day – messages riddled with distorted information and lies, from bogus models to inflated mortality rates and everything in between, all of which serve to strengthen the left’s case against Trump while corrupt hospital administrators rake in money from cooking the books on cause of death. But perhaps more than that, it’s easier to control people who feel desperate and afraid. (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here)

An exhausted and increasingly impoverished populace does not a healthy nation make. In fact, if you think this is bad, what could await is even more terrifying. As Dennis Praeger wrote in March:

…Economic disasters rarely remain only economic disasters. To give a particularly dramatic example, the Nazis came to power because of economics more than any other single reason…Nazi success at the polls was almost entirely related to the Weimar economy. Communist parties don’t fare well in robust economies, but they’re very tempting when people are in dire economic straits. Only God knows what economic dislocation the shutting down of American and other Western economies will lead to. I am not predicting a Nazi or communist ascendancy, but economic and political disaster may be as likely, or even more likely, than a health disaster.

It is quite apparent by now that even if the most horrific scenario as described above does not unfold, we have already sealed our fate with respect to a disaster of monumental proportions that runs the gamut from increased drug and alcohol addiction, increased domestic violence, suicide, and avoidance of medical care, among other concerns. Tragically, the things that put human beings at risk for many of these dire outcomes are the very things that are being thrust upon us: unemployment and isolation. At the same time, one of the most powerful forces that serves as a protective factor offering comfort and hope has been denied us, as Americans have been barred from attending church. (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here)

As for the oft-cited idea that we are at war with an invisible enemy, I would say, no, we are not. When nations go to war, they do so to defend their culture and way of life. Instead, we are destroying ours.

But there is a war being waged. The left is determined to take this nation down and the perfect time arrived to go in for the kill. Maximum suffering, pain, and destruction is on the menu and they’re serving it up every day as they plunge small towns, cities, counties, and states into protracted lockdowns and shifting goalposts.

The scale of human suffering and the long-term effects of this are incalculable. They will not be seasonal, like a virus. They will be long-lasting. And the left cares not a bit.

There is one thing and one thing only they desire: power. And they’re having at it. So far, the police state has been a wild success.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: May 20th, 2020, 4:31 am
by SecondRateMind
SPARTACUS wrote: November 10th, 2008, 12:09 pm One thought that I have had is birthrates. I recently read "America Alone" by Mark Steyn. He uses census data to point out that any time a civilization drops below 2.1 births per woman, the population of that civilization will decline. The U.S. is one of the only western civilizations that has a birth rate higher than 2.1. Europe's native population is declining. It is being replaced by immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries with different views on legal structure (aka Sharia law).

Secular and socialist governments have pegged their continued existence on birthrates found in religious societies (like the birth rate of the Mormon culture). The problem is, in all socialist and affluent Western civilizations, the birth rates are all below the replacement rate (2.1) with the exception of the U.S. which is right at the replacement rate.

So one way the church could bear the Constitution away from destruction is by the simple fact we are having more children than enemies of the Constitution. Those with Christian values and respect for the Constitution will be the only ones around in a couple of generations.

Just an idea. I would read the book "America Alone" though. It is very interesting.
Fair enough. I would just note that the so called 'quiverful' families in the US do far more damage to the environment than similar families in Africa. Seems to me that there a variety of factors at play, here, and focus on birth-rates alone is a somewhat simplistic approach to the issue. If we really want to spread good governance worldwide, I suspect there are plenty of peaceful, but more direct, ways to do this.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Re: How will "this people" save the Constitution?

Posted: May 20th, 2020, 4:58 am
by SecondRateMind
Spence wrote: November 10th, 2008, 2:23 pm Maybe this coming depression will help the saints turn back to the values which founded this nation. Maybe there will be a French Revolution scenario. Maybe we will have a prophet speak out about the Fed and the Secret Combinations that exist and maybe then we will rise up as one and declare a Revolution and restore our government to what it was when George Washington was in office.

I don't see much hope for America unless the Prophet stands up and enlightens the minds of all who listen like that good preacher did for his congregation in the video that Col Flagg posted.

If the whole of Utah state becomes united in the cause of restoring the Constitution I think it would pass over this country like a wake and we could string up the Rockefeller family by their ears.
I think today's civilisations are a good deal more complex than was the case for George Washington. And I hate simplistic answers to complex questions. My advice is to embrace that complexity, revel in it, and see it as a sign of God's omniscience.

Best wishes, 2RM.