LDS Freedom Forum

I think the best way to "grease the skids" is to start educating people on the Federal Reserve. All of it is documented. There are no secrets. It is just hidden away. That way they can't call you a crazy they can't laugh at you because all of it is true and available for anyone willing to learn.

I was talking to my mom this morning about the bailout and how they decided to not use the money how it was supposed to be used. I just sat there and said things like, "Didn't see that coming." or How could the American people be so blind. I usually feel constrained about talking about the Hidden things, like last night when I was talking to my little sister and mentioned the federal reserve, she asked what it was and I declined to tell her. However, I didn't feel such constraint and told my mom about the federal reserve. She asked something like, "Have you been listening to Glenn Beck again." I said, no. What, this is all documented. It is not like it is secret. It's not like I am lying. It is just facts.

Of course, like many, she said I just want to do this (plugging her ears with her fingers). Saying, I don't want to worry about that. I'll just do my jobs and not worry about the big picture.

If you haven't watched Col. Flagg's video with the pastor talking to his congregration about the federal reserve, I suggest you do so. It explains it in a non crazy manner. And helps fill in a few blanks.

I think that the answer to the question; how will the Elders of Israel save the Constitution? is one that is answered by Omniscience. We cannot see the end from the beginning, but God can, and is leading us aright. As I read these comments I am inspired by all the good that is taking place, as so many who not too long ago were caught up in the trivialities of life (myself included) not knowing or caring about the weightier matters of freedom, just happy with its appearance. But now we are awake, and finding each other and coming to understand the full meaning of omniscience and what it means in the proximate and future. To me it means that we are all doing exactly what we where fore ordained to do that nothing is happening by chance, that we will be prepared to do what ever God has in store for each of us to do in this objective.
One thing we can all be sure of is that it (the Constitution), will be saved by appealing to the principles upon which it was founded, and by creating and perpetuating the idea of statesmanship. I like these words from Mark Helprin:
“Would that we in America come once again to understand that statesmanship is not the appetite for power but – because things matter – a holy calling of self-abnegation and self-sacrifice. We have made it something else. Nonetheless, after and despite its betrayal, statesmanship remains the manifestation, in political terms, of beauty, and balance and truth. It is the courage to tell the truth, and thus discern what is ahead. It is a mastery of the symmetry of forces, illuminated by the genius of speaking to the heart of things. Statesmanship is a quality that, though it may be betrayed, is always ready to be taken up again merely by honest subscription to its great themes. Have confidence that even in idleness its strengths are growing, for it is a providential gift given to us in times of need. Evidently we do not need it now, but as the world is forever interesting the time will surely come when we do. And then, so help me God, I believe that, solely by the grace of God, the corrupt will be thrown down and the virtuous will rise up".

I strongly believe this statement, and believe that it is happening now. We are often fooled by our adversary, that the veil of forgetfulness is powerful, that we are no one special, that we are weak, and that something greater has to happen than we are capable of. The stone is rolling forth and it will gain momentum and speed as it moves along towards its destiny and fills the whole earth. We may not be able to see it now-for as a dear friend of mine likes to say- “ because we are in the bulls eye” but in retrospect we will understand and see the mighty hand of God working and leading us, we will see how Gods omniscience has affect, not because He chose, but because we did and that those choices are powerful beyond description. Those choices brought us to the point of destiny that we now are approaching, and we will not falter of faint!
In this life we see mostly through a glass darkly, but our helper the Omniscient knows exactly what will take place, the how’s, the where’s, the why’s and the who’s. They are you and me, do what you are inspired to do, and it will suffice.

Thank you, Dan, for that insight.

I spoke with an LDS friend in another state the other day on the deterioration of this nation's constitutional principles. She told me her patriarchal blessing says she will teach the principles of the Constitution to many.

She has three of her five children still at home, she home schools and always has at least one Church calling. Over the years she couldn't quite understand how she was going to fit that essential calling into her life. Now, she wonders if teaching of the Constitution will occur after there is a major breakdown in the entire system, at a time when people will be humbled enough to begin taking greater responsibility for their freedoms instead of assuming someone else will. Most people don't have a vague idea of constitutional principles, let alone what our specific constitution requires.

In February this year, as my wife and I were completing a mission at the Family History Library in SLC, the question came up what would I like to do as a 3rd mission. Easy answer. I would like to participate in a Church program to teach Latter-day Saints the importance of befriending the US Constitution as we are commanded in D&C 98:6. My write-in candidacy for US Congress here in AZ gave me opportunity to do just that, and it was by far my biggest accomplishment.

The write-in votes are not yet posted in AZ, but I'm sure I got very few votes. And my wife even took flak because some though I was taking votes away from a good republican (who, BTW, never mentioned the Constitution in his campaign). But I had the stake presidency, all 3 of them, squirming when I pointed out to them that D&C 98:6 is a commandment, and 101:77&80 and 134:1 explain why. And I was surprised when our bishop told me he voted for me.

I'm going to copy those verses and keep them in my wallet. I would also go with D&C 134:2.

I've posted this somewhere here before, but given 1/2 a chance to explain how I decide whom to vote for, here's what I tell them in just about these words:

I start with D&C 134:1, which tells us that God holds men accountable for their acts in relation to government, both in making laws and administering them. That verse alone should advise us that God definitely has an interest in our shaping of and administration of government. And therefore it would be wise for Latter-day Saints to determine, as best we can, just how the Lord would have us shape and administer government, and ultimately how we should decide whom to vote for.

Then I bring up D&C 101: 77-80, which informs us that the Lord established the Constitution of the United States by the hands of wise men whom He raised up for that very purpose. And I tell them that almost all of the latter-day prophets, as well as many latter-day apostles, have declared that the Constitution was created thru the inspiration of the Lord, and they have stressed the vital importance of defending, upholding and adhering to the Constitution. I let them know there exist recordings of many prophetic testimonies bearing solemn witness of this truth, and testify that there is no way around this responsibility if Latter-day Saints wish to remain a free people.

Then I sock 'em with D&C 98: 4-10, with special emphasis on Verse 6, which informs us that Latter-day Saints are commanded to befriend the constitutional law of the United States. I tell them that in trying to come up with a good explanation of what the Lord meant by befriending the Constitution, I found a statement by President Ezra Taft Benson, spoken in the October 1987 General Conference. I cannot quote it all in conversation, but this is it: "How then can we best befriend the Constitution in this critical hour and secure the blessings of liberty and ensure the protection and guidance of our Father in Heaven?
First and foremost, we must be righteous... Two great American Christian civilizations - the Jaredites and the Nephites - were swept off this land because they did not serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ. (Ether 2: 12) What will become of our civilization?
Second, we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers. Have we read the Federalist Papers? Are we reading the Constitution and pondering it? Are we aware of its principles? Are we abiding by these principles and teaching them to others? Could we defend the Constitution? Can we recognize when a law is constitutionally unsound? Do we know what the prophets have said about the Constitution and the threats to it?
Third, we must become involved in civic affairs to see that we are properly represented....
Fourth, we must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, our teaching, and our advice. We must become accurately informed and then let others know how we feel....
We, the blessed beneficiaries of the Constitution, face difficult days in America, a land which is choice above all other lands . (Ether 2: 10) May God give us the faith and the courage exhibited by those patriots who pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor... If the person is still with me, (If you've read this far you'll know what I mean.) I tell them about D&C 109: 54, spoken in prayer by the Prophet Joseph Smith at the dedication of the temple at Kirtland, Ohio in 1836, which states that the Constitution of our land be established forever. There are many Americans, and too many in the Church, who consider the Constitution out of date, meant for an earlier time when things were different, etc. They ignore the evidence that the Constitution’s role goes beyond providing a free nation in which the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His Church could be restored, and that it will become the governing system for the entire world during the Millennium. That evidence includes the statement by Melvin J. Ballard in the October 1918 General Conference that ...God’s word shall not fail when He predicted that the instrument known as the Constitution of the United States, the Spirit of Liberty established here by a few weak colonists, was His order of things for the government of men, and it should roll forth to fill the whole earth.

Those instructions point me to candidates who have demonstrated, as best their circumstances permitted, their espousal of the US Constitution.

Hey, Lundbaek ~

The missionary couple serving on the Standing Rock & Cheyenne River (Sioux) Reservations is leaving in June or July. They also have a calling to work in the Bismarck Temple.

Something to consider. We need couples to work in the temple! It's a great place to work because every person is needed. You learn so much.

It is a hard mission as the Lakota People are challenged with many distractions. However, the current couple are concentrating on collecting names from far flung cemeteries throughout the Standing Rock and Cheyenne River Reservations and compiling them for admission to Salt Lake as a data bank from which Lakota families can find their ancestors. Many of the headstones are wood or soft limestone and the information is being lost. I know Brother & Sister S. will not be able to complete that goal by June. Winter is setting in now and the days are short.

Odds are pretty good that any future misionary calls will be where our fluency (in varying degrees) in 5 European languages would be of value. We used them all at the SLC Family History Library, and 4 of them on our earlier mission in Denmark, where we gave away more Books of Mormon in other languages than in Danish.

Well, you know, that Tribe of Dan has always been problematic...or so it is thought by some.

I guess I can say that with a bit of ownership seeing that a direct ancestor was Danish.

There must be some truth to it. Living on the Great Plains is not unlike living on the ocean - the horizons manifest themselves.

Oh! I should have also included this page from the Lakotah Republic web page on the basis for an attempt to establish the sovereignty of the Lakotah People.

http://www.republicoflakotah.com/?p=229

lundbaek wrote:In February this year, as my wife and I were completing a mission at the Family History Library in SLC, the question came up what would I like to do as a 3rd mission. Easy answer. I would like to participate in a Church program to teach Latter-day Saints the importance of befriending the US Constitution as we are commanded in D&C 98:6. My write-in candidacy for US Congress here in AZ gave me opportunity to do just that, and it was by far my biggest accomplishment.

The write-in votes are not yet posted in AZ, but I'm sure I got very few votes. And my wife even took flak because some though I was taking votes away from a good republican (who, BTW, never mentioned the Constitution in his campaign). But I had the stake presidency, all 3 of them, squirming when I pointed out to them that D&C 98:6 is a commandment, and 101:77&80 and 134:1 explain why. And I was surprised when our bishop told me he voted for me.

That would be good info on a bussiness card for fellow saints. Maybe the LDC cards could have those on them and we can make a bulk purchase and hand them out to everyone we know?

Something like this would fit on the size of a pass along card, printed over a pictrue of the Constitution on one side and ther Declaration of Independence on the other.

D&C 134:1 - “We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society.”

D&C 101:80 - “I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose,...”

D&C 98:6 -“... I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the Constitutional law of the land;...”

D&C 109:54 - “...may those principles, which were so honorably and nobly defended, namely, the Constitution of our land, by our fathers, be established forever.”

On the flip side maybe this:

First and foremost, we must be righteous...

Second, we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers.

Third, we must become involved in civic affairs to see that we are properly represented....

Fourth, we must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, our teaching, and our advice. We must become accurately informed and then let others know how we feel....

Ezra Taft Benson, October 1987

Been meaning to bring this quote in since I read this one, sorry I didn't have it with me then...

When I read the following as quoted in "The Coming of the Lord" by Gerald Lund, I knew that this was the answer in part as to how this people will save the Constitution and when.

Orson Pratt, Deseret News Vol 8, no. 265, Oct. 2, 1875

"...He will speedily fulfill the prophecy in relation to the overthrow of this nation, and their destruction. We shall be obliged to have a government to preserve ourselves in unity and peace; for they, through being wasted away, will not have power to govern; for state will be divided against state, city against city, town against town, and the whole country will be in terror and confusion; mobocracy will prevail and there will be no security, through this great Republic, for the lives or property of the people. When that time shall arrive, we shall necessarily want to carry out the principles of our great constitution and, as the people of God, we shall want to see those principles magnified, according to the order of union and oneness which prevails among the people of God."

This is the second track and it is at a time of anarchy likely just before the veil or gulf drops to separate this people from the rest of the nation. Upon my house will come first as will the beast's war on the saints as we are now just beginning to see again. When they come with bundles under their arms they will find us, or rather we will be found holding it (the Constitution) up.

The missionaries will not be called home until after the upon my house when the chasteneing goes forth to the rest of the world and wars etc... are stated as the reason, so I no longer expect that until later.

It is clear what we are beginning to see is the "persecution comes next" and the "Upon my house" is not far behind.

After that chastening, we will earn the right to be protected and seperated and build something worth protecting and seperating out (right now one cannot tell where Babylon ends and Zion begins (perhaps only at the thresholds of some of our homes).

We all have a phenominal work to do in bringing these hidden things to light once more, and I'm not talking about the dark things, but rather the light that has long been hid beneath the bushel. We have a great duty to perfect the saints.

The sooner we as a people are humbled and chastened to our knees where we belong, to become teachable, the sooner we can escape the judgements to come and go forth with the great work of Zion.

Without having read all of the responses, here are my immediate thoughts.

There are several things that the adversary is doing which could bring the prophecy to pass sooner than you might think. First of all we see the church being divided by this gay marriage issue. The church is being persecuted and members who may have been unfamiliar with the Constitution will start turning to it for protection.

As things continue, more members will start considering home school. Homeschoolers are always under attack, and as a result most homeschoolers understand the constitution. The more persecution the church experiences, the more members will be refined, and the more they will seek refuge under the principles of the constitution.

We have to have systems in place where members can search out and learn about these things as those situations continue to build in frequency. I can see that when the church is under greater attack, wardhouses will become places of education regarding the constitution. Our job is to work on these resources and build them up so that the groundwork has been laid.

So I am interested in everyone's thoughts on why they are receptive to Constitutional principles while others around them couldn't care less.

Honestly, I feel like it's a calling. I still don't quite know what will be required of me, but I know I will be teaching the principles I'm learning to others. Maybe it will be in some grand way, or maybe a little here and a little there. Who knows? I definitely feel that it is a calling though.

ChelC wrote: I definitely feel that it is a calling though.

I feel the same way (back to Dan's omniscience/foreordination discussion). I'm not sure exactly why it's "us," but I feel it is "us." There seems to be some people that no matter what, are not going to choose the Constitution, but at the same time there seems to be others that just aren't supposed to "wake up" yet--they continue to live their religion and hopefully at the right time they will "awake" and/or defer to those that did "awake" earlier, but I continue to have the feeling that there are certain people (many of them on this site) that were "foreordained" to awake and be ready for what's coming. I hope that we are humble enough to continue on with this "calling" as things continue to gradually unfold.

Yesterday I attended a meeting of the Constitution Party of Arizona. Hundreds of prospective members, including many LDSs, were invited to attend, 95 people expressed interest in the Party, and 27 showed up. I believe I was the only LDS present.

In all fairness, there is in AZ the Arizona Republican Assembly, which has many LDSs. they are trying to reform th eRepublican Party from within.

at the same time there seems to be others that just aren't supposed to "wake up" yet--they continue to live their religion and hopefully at the right time they will "awake"

I have to agree with that statement with some reservation. Yesterday, the RS/Priesthood Joseph Smith lesson was on Obtaining Knowledge. It is a commandment to 'teach one another'.

D&C 88:77-83

77 And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.
78 Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;
79 Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—
80 That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you.
81 Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
82 Therefore, they are left without excuse, and their sins are upon their own heads.

This commandment to learn extends far beyond church related doctrine and publications.

Some people are resistant to anything other than what they 'see and hear' through commercial media. They cannot awake to their awful situation until the grid is down for awhile. It is no accident that there are tv's going constantly - even in places of business. We have been hypnotized, as it were, by those who would keep us passive and unhealthy.

I have asked the Lord why I have become aware of some of the realities of our time. Much of my knowledge has been accumulated over my entire lifetime - each piece fitting perfectly with that which I learned previously - all bearing witness of the continuation in mortality of the War begun in Heaven. The answer I received was to help others understand events that may be far beyond their grasp and current state of courage.

buffalo_girl wrote:They cannot awake to their awful situation until the grid is down for awhile.

I agree. I pray for those that are trying to do their best, but still seem "hypnotized" (this prayer sometimes includes myself). It's still so much easier to catch the "sound bites" from CNN/FOX/etc. and feel we are doing our part to study the "current events" vs. actually taking the next step and really learn about the current events through legitimate sources (probably the greatest being the Book of Mormon). How much longer until the grid goes down????

In a above post ChelC included 2 interesting phrases which intrigue me.

"...members who may have been unfamiliar with the Constitution will start turning to it for protection."
&
"...the more members will be refined, and the more they will seek refuge under the principles of the constitution."

In full context:

"There are several things that the adversary is doing which could bring the prophecy to pass sooner than you might think. First of all we see the church being divided by this gay marriage issue. The church is being persecuted and members who may have been unfamiliar with the Constitution will start turning to it for protection."

"As things continue, more members will start considering home school. Homeschoolers are always under attack, and as a result most homeschoolers understand the constitution. The more persecution the church experiences, the more members will be refined, and the more they will seek refuge under the principles of the constitution."

Any ideas on what events and conditions might cause LDSs to turn to the US Constitution for "protection" and "refuge"? What might they/we expect the Constitution to do for us? And to whom might they/we look to for guidance?

It seems to me that LDSs are generally so dependent on guidance from the First Presidency that most by far would not even think to look to the Constitution for protection and refuge. And I would certainly not want or trust any of the current crop of LDS politicans to take any leadership in a return to constitutional principles in government, even if they did a flip-flop and suddenly became great defenders of the Constitution, as I expect most would attempt. I raise this question because I am concerned about how best to prepare for such an eventuality.

I have an lds friend in Freedom here who has been doing just that on his radio program. He has three hours on Sat and a lot of the discussion has turned to the founders and the constitution. Yesterday there was a lot of discussion on the Fed. I called in and mentioned that while they were having such a discussion that unknowing to them there was an End the Fed rally happening at all the Federal Reserve Banks.

People are waking up. Radio programs are beginning to awaken and some discussion of things we have been talking about for years, such as the FED, the NAU, THE CFR etc.

-Paul

Some things I can imagine happening are thes:

"Diversity" education in the schools gradually, or by legislation rapidly, becomes unacceptable to parents who are not at liberty to educate at home. These parents will look to their legal rights as they consider options available.

For the same reason above, plus harrassment and exposure in the public schools, those parents who can will begin to educate at home. The minimized body count in the public schools will bring the wrath of education boards who will look for ways to regulate homeschooling. For obvious reasons those members will need to familiarize themselves with their rights.

Increased regulations on gun and/or ammunition purchase and ownership will lead more members to study the 2nd amendment and may light a fire in some of them.

Heavy taxation will lead to the dissatisfaction of many.

Persecution of members of the church as a result of the gay rights movement will likely lead many to seek out their constitutional rights in regard to worship.

Employers will begin pushing special rights for homosexuals, tolerance training, etc. Many members will lose their jobs, possibly eventually LDSs will be blacklisted from major employers.

Doctors, lawyers, adoption services, clerks... anyone who has objections to the performing of gay marriages or abortions will be fired. Advertising, retail, everything will become corrupted and members of the church with objections will have to turn to one another for support as they lose their livelihood.

I anticipate a falling away of many members, and a unification of those who remain faithful who will have to turn to each other for support and community. Look for even more people to view us as a cult organization.

I can see many small attacks snowballing into such persecution that members only appeal will be to our founding documents.

I am hoping for the mildest adversity that it will take will start the American voters clamouring for government in compliance with the US Constitution. LDSs, of course, should be leading the charge for this, but obviously they are not.

lundbaek wrote:Yesterday I attended a meeting of the Constitution Party of Arizona. Hundreds of prospective members, including many LDSs, were invited to attend, 95 people expressed interest in the Party, and 27 showed up. I believe I was the only LDS present.

In all fairness, there is in AZ the Arizona Republican Assembly, which has many LDSs. they are trying to reform th eRepublican Party from within.

This is a frustration of mine. We have the principles, Why try and reform an unprincipled organization such as the republican party. Has it ever had outlined principles that the party is to adhere to?

LEts retrun to principles rather than trying to restore unprincipled organizations to a level of acceptance.

In fairness I guess they are doing something, and our idea isnt widely accepted.

I have a quote somewhere that states that the "Elders will successfully rally the righteous of this country" and that is how the constitution will be saved.

"For years we have heard of the role the elders could play in saving the Constitution from total destruction. But how can the elders be expected to save it if they have not studied it and are not sure if it is being destroyed or what is destroying it?" ( President Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p 619-620)

"And now as the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively - is simply this; Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution. This brings us right back to the scripture I opened with today - to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are compelled in all things. Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific Church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he did it would split the church asunder, and perhaps He does not want this to happen yet, for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe. (President Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p 660 )

Imagine the reaction of the LDGs if the Church were to set up a specific Church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. We would be stepping on a lot more and bigger toes than we did in the marriage amendment effort.