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D&C 93:1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 21st, 2017, 2:11 pm Seek God’s face or be tempted
https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/12/21/seek ... e-tempted/
In the LoF, we read:D&C 101:81 Now, unto what shall I liken the children of Zion? I will liken them unto the parable of the woman and the unjust judge, for men ought always to pray and not to faint, which saith—
82 There was in a city a judge which feared not God, neither regarded man.
83 And there was a widow in that city, and she came unto him, saying: Avenge me of mine adversary.
84 And he would not for a while, but afterward he said within himself: Though I fear not God, nor regard man, yet because this widow troubleth me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
85 Thus will I liken the children of Zion.
86 Let them importune at the feet of the judge
The Lord wants us to weary Him, to importune Him, to trouble Him, incessantly. To importune means to ask and to press persistently for something. Incessantly means nonstop, constantly, continually, ceaselessly, endlessly. We begin to get an idea of how much the Lord expects us to approach Him. I have been doing this for many years now and I can testify how difficult it is to weary and exhaust an inexhaustible God. Wrestling with an omnipotent being requires unparalleled tenacity and perseverance. I've never, ever been one to give up, but I also cannot count how many times I have weakened and tired from trying to weary the Lord.LoF 2:55 Let us here observe, that after any portion of the human family are made acquainted with the important fact that there is a God who has created and does uphold all things, the extent of their knowledge, respecting his character and glory, will depend upon their diligence and faithfulness in seeking after him, until like Enoch, the brother of Jared, and Moses, they shall obtain faith in God, and power with him to behold him face to face.
Question 146: How do men obtain a knowledge of the glory of God, his perfections and attributes?
Answer: By devoting themselves to his service, through prayer and supplication incessantly, strengthening their faith in him, until like Enoch, the brother of Jared, and Moses, they obtain a manifestation of God to themselves.
marc wrote: ↑December 24th, 2017, 10:20 am This is true. Furthermore:
In the LoF, we read:D&C 101:81 Now, unto what shall I liken the children of Zion? I will liken them unto the parable of the woman and the unjust judge, for men ought always to pray and not to faint, which saith—
82 There was in a city a judge which feared not God, neither regarded man.
83 And there was a widow in that city, and she came unto him, saying: Avenge me of mine adversary.
84 And he would not for a while, but afterward he said within himself: Though I fear not God, nor regard man, yet because this widow troubleth me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
85 Thus will I liken the children of Zion.
86 Let them importune at the feet of the judge
The Lord wants us to weary Him, to importune Him, to trouble Him, incessantly. To importune means to ask and to press persistently for something. Incessantly means nonstop, constantly, continually, ceaselessly, endlessly. We begin to get an idea of how much the Lord expects us to approach Him. I have been doing this for many years now and I can testify how difficult it is to weary and exhaust an inexhaustible God. Wrestling with an omnipotent being requires unparalleled tenacity and perseverance. I've never, ever been one to give up, but I also cannot count how many times I have weakened and tired from trying to weary the Lord.LoF 2:55 Let us here observe, that after any portion of the human family are made acquainted with the important fact that there is a God who has created and does uphold all things, the extent of their knowledge, respecting his character and glory, will depend upon their diligence and faithfulness in seeking after him, until like Enoch, the brother of Jared, and Moses, they shall obtain faith in God, and power with him to behold him face to face.
Question 146: How do men obtain a knowledge of the glory of God, his perfections and attributes?
Answer: By devoting themselves to his service, through prayer and supplication incessantly, strengthening their faith in him, until like Enoch, the brother of Jared, and Moses, they obtain a manifestation of God to themselves.
Each time I have weakened and paused, I have fallen into temptation. I have also had some beautiful experiences because of my persistence. I know that one day I will rend this veil of unbelief. I will do it because I believe Jesus Christ. I believe His words. I believe His promises. He is a God of truth. So either I will rend this veil while in the flesh one day or else there is no God. But there is a God. His name is Jesus Christ and I will know Him sooner or later. All I can do is persist and be patient. That is the hard part. And not weakening and falling into temptation over and over again. But that is why Jesus Christ came down to pay for my sins. So that I can keep wearying Him and seeking to know Him. It's only a matter of time.
What does it mean when Jesus says to them "even so shall ye do unto the world"?3Ne18:25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
I believe it means that as Jesus is the light that they all would hold up for the world to see, that they should declare to the world to likewise come unto Jesus as they have to feel and to see.inho wrote: ↑December 26th, 2017, 4:09 pmWhat does it mean when Jesus says to them "even so shall ye do unto the world"?3Ne18:25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
3 Nephi 19:1 And now it came to pass that when Jesus had ascended into heaven, the multitude did disperse, and every man did take his wife and his children and did return to his own home.
2 And it was noised abroad among the people immediately, before it was yet dark, that the multitude had seen Jesus, and that he had ministered unto them, and that he would also show himself on the morrow unto the multitude.
3 Yea, and even all the night it was noised abroad concerning Jesus; and insomuch did they send forth unto the people that there were many, yea, an exceedingly great number, did labor exceedingly all that night, that they might be on the morrow in the place where Jesus should show himself unto the multitude.
I interpret it similarly. The wording was just a bit unclear in my opinion.marc wrote: ↑December 26th, 2017, 4:23 pmI believe it means that as Jesus is the light that they all would hold up for the world to see, that they should declare to the world to likewise come unto Jesus as they have to feel and to see.inho wrote: ↑December 26th, 2017, 4:09 pmWhat does it mean when Jesus says to them "even so shall ye do unto the world"?3Ne18:25 And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation.
SJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 21st, 2017, 2:11 pm Seek God’s face or be tempted
https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/12/21/seek ... e-tempted/
To be fair, that blog post (or the OP of this thread) does not actually say that the author promotes literalist interpretation.AI2.0 wrote: ↑December 27th, 2017, 4:28 pmSJR3t2 wrote: ↑December 21st, 2017, 2:11 pm Seek God’s face or be tempted
https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/12/21/seek ... e-tempted/
Another person who is a literalist and therefore misinterprets what the Savior was trying to teach us. Jesus is NOT telling us we need to see him in the flesh or we will be led into temptation, he's telling us that we need to be actively and anxiously engaged in following him: 'seeking him' and coming to know him by having faith in him and doing the works that he did; receiving the ordinances he's commanded us to, repenting, exercising faith, living the commandments, loving and serving others, using our gifts and talents to teach, heal and serve those around us, developing the attributes of Christ. And, naturally, if we aren't doing these things, then we're wasting the days of our probation in idleness or worse, wickedness or simply pursuing worldly interests and not seeking for spiritual and eternal truths...and That is how we are led into temptation.
It's not surprising the blog writer got it wrong. He resigned his membership in the church a couple of years ago and clearly is following his own path and his own form of religion.
Excellent article written by someone who understands this concept.
"The Lord says to the brother of Jared: “Because of thy faith thou hast seen . . . for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?” (Ether 3:9; italics added). It must have been with pounding heart that the brother of Jared said: “Nay; Lord, show thyself unto me” (3:10). A further dialogue takes place at the cloud-veil, the Lord testing the brother of Jared’s desire and preparation, after which he says, “Ye are redeemed from the fall; therefore ye are brought back into my presence; therefore I show myself unto you” (3:13). The brother of Jared receives the heavenly gift, described by Moroni in Ether 12: “For it was by faith that Christ showed himself unto our fathers . . . and prepared a way that thereby others might be partakers of the heavenly gift. . . . Wherefore, ye may also have hope, and be partakers of the gift, if ye will but have faith. Behold it was by faith that they of old were called after the holy order of God. . . . Wherefore, he showed not himself until after their faith” (vv. 7–12; italics added). President Ezra Taft Benson explained the holy order of God: “To enter into the order of the Son of God is the equivalent today of entering into the fulness of the Melchizedek Priesthood, which is only received in the house of the Lord.”–5
Part 4: Faith and Knowledge
The brother of Jared’s experience dramatizes the difference between faith and knowledge. We can see that the brother of Jared did not have a perfect knowledge before he went through the veil because he expressed fear and surprise at what he saw and learned. The Lord says that it was not the brother of Jared’s perfect knowledge that dissolved the veil; rather, it was his exceeding faith (see Ether 3:6–9). It seems that Moroni means to say that once the brother of Jared had seen the Lord, he then had perfect knowledge of the Lord, and the Lord could not then withhold anything from him. Moroni says: “And after the brother of Jared had beheld the finger of the Lord, because of the promise which the brother of Jared had obtained by faith, the Lord could not withhold anything from his sight; wherefore he showed him all things, for he could no longer be kept without the veil” (Ether 12:21).
The knowledge given by the Holy Ghost, the first comforter, is not a perfect knowledge, though it prepares and draws the seeker to that perfect knowledge. Faith, produced by the revelations of the Holy Ghost, is an assurance or pre-knowledge that what the Lord says is true (see Alma 32:34). But faith is designed to proceed along and become perfect knowledge, which is seeing something for ourselves after we have believed in, and been obedient to, the assurances of the Holy Ghost.
Faith is not an end in itself, it is a means to an end, and that end is to be like and to be with the Lord. When we say in our testimony meetings, “I know that the Lord Jesus lives,” without having actually seen him, we mean that the Holy Ghost has given that assurance to our souls. But we do not have a perfect knowledge until, after an extended period of probation, we see for ourselves as the brother of Jared did. Joseph Smith observed, “Men at the present time testify of heaven and of hell, and have never seen either—and I will say that no man knows these things without this.”–6 Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ leads in one direction and that is into the Lord’s presence".
I guess the Lord forgot to tell all of those folks in the BOM who entered His presence about the “narrow channel” being "the House of the Lord" or as you put it "edifice". For them it was "the mountain top" or the "Forrest" or a "cloud". I think the Lord is fully capable to create His own sacred space for those whom he wishes to bring into His presence. "Never have; never will"??Mark wrote: ↑January 1st, 2018, 8:36 am Sis. Thomas begins her article with what I believe is a critical point to this whole process of seeking to KNOW the Lord.
"The temple is the narrow channel through which one must pass to reenter the Lord’s presence. A mighty power pulls us through that channel, and it is the sealing power of the at-one-ment of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Savior’s at-one-ment is another word for the sealing power. By the power of the at-one-ment, the Lord draws and seals his children to himself in the holy temples."
Anything that takes a person AWAY from the house of the Lord for any reason acts as a stumbling block and a distraction. The temple IS the channel. Period. Our covenants made and kept in that sacred edifice are a protection against those adversarial voices who seek to lead us away from the Lords open arms. Satans counterfeits are plentiful. They do not bring the spirit of at-one-ment. Never have; never will.
The Prophet Joseph answered that. Go read Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It is very straightforward.
Are you saying that currently the lord is authorizing initiatories, endowments, and sealings outside of one of his temples?
Why did you add this as a requirement?-SJR3t2 wrote: ↑January 2nd, 2018, 11:15 am BoM never says temples are a requirement.
3 Nephi 11
31 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will declare unto you my doctrine.
32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.
37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.
38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.