Gileadi on Elias

[Matchmaker]

Someone said, it is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. But it is really a case of not seeing THE TREE for the forest. The hidden one rubs elbows with you. He teaches in your forums. He might even be your neighbor. People who have met him are drawn to him. Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard. Something contrary to Church doctrine. While people are drawn to his spirit they are repulsed by his teachings. They shun him. They run from him. He is not hidden from your sight. He is right there in front of you. He is hidden from you because YOU won't hear him!

Please clarify what you are saying, or expound on it. I wish to better understand what it is you are trying to say. It sounds like a warning of some kind.

[abijah]

Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard.

Like what?

Describe this new, strange teaching - since one is known by their fruit.

[Michael Sherwin]

Someone said, it is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. But it is really a case of not seeing THE TREE for the forest. The hidden one rubs elbows with you. He teaches in your forums. He might even be your neighbor. People who have met him are drawn to him. Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard. Something contrary to Church doctrine. While people are drawn to his spirit they are repulsed by his teachings. They shun him. They run from him. He is not hidden from your sight. He is right there in front of you. He is hidden from you because YOU won't hear him!

Please clarify what you are saying, or expound on it. I wish to better understand what it is you are trying to say. It sounds like a warning of some kind.

Read Isaiah 28 with the knowledge that the wine is a metaphor for false teaching and the strong drink stands for false doctrine. It will tell you what you ask.

[Michael Sherwin]

Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard.

Like what?

Describe this new, strange teaching - since one is known by their fruit.

I know a leopard by the way waiting to pounce when I see one. I'll tell you the same as I told the other. Read Isaiah 28 knowing that the wine stands for false teaching and the strong drink for false doctrine. If you understand that then you should realize that his words destroys the refuge of lies. You think you have the truth so you won't in your pride recognise the truth he speaks therefore you won't hear him. What if I were to tell you that we all including God originated in the lake of fire? You don't know if it is true or not. You probably will say it is not true. But you won't know if you are telling the truth or not. So if you do not know how could you judge the quality of my fruit. You can't although you will. So even if you are a leopard by the way you have no claws. And if I have misjudged you please accept my apology.

[BeNotDeceived]

Someone said, it is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. But it is really a case of not seeing THE TREE for the forest. The hidden one rubs elbows with you. He teaches in your forums. He might even be your neighbor. People who have met him are drawn to him. Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard. Something contrary to Church doctrine. While people are drawn to his spirit they are repulsed by his teachings. They shun him. They run from him. He is not hidden from your sight. He is right there in front of you. He is hidden from you because YOU won't hear him!

Please clarify what you are saying, or expound on it. I wish to better understand what it is you are trying to say. It sounds like a warning of some kind.

Here’s another stab in the dark.

Acuity describes well this concept; so too does tuning a crystal as President Faust demonstrates in his address entitled Did You Get the Right Message? Vision may also mean images perceived via the minds eye i. e. the GDP bar graph in orange can be visualized as it might look in a few years. The crossing of the Moon’s shadow likewise is merely a two dimensional plotting of four dimensional phenomena. We indeed see darkly, yet key glimpses can enlighten us if we have eyes to see, ears to hear or the mental sharpness to visualize complex correlations.

Often, we are surrounded by electromagnetic information in the form of radio waves, light waves & spirit waves. Light has wave and particle properties, so does that make it matter? Spirit is described as fine matter, so likewise likely behaves as a wave ...

[abijah]

I know a leopard by the way waiting to pounce when I see one.

Read Isaiah 28 knowing that the wine stands for false teaching and the strong drink for false doctrine.

That likely plays a large role, but I don’t think our motivations in viewing it that way are the same.

But do you really believe the term “Ephraim” here is merely used in an ecclesiastical sense, i.e. the Church? I don’t think the Church is perfect but I also feel the lineage and designation of Ephraim transcend the Church.

Look at Europe, letting themselves be conquered while groveling with their substance before their conquerors. Do you deny the European-Ephraim connection? Ever been to Europe, and comprehended the decline? If there were ever nations who “reel with wine”, who once were the world beacon of Christianity to the world and the power of the earth, whose “glorious beauty is as a fading flower”, then it is Europe, the fruitful, birthright bough of Joseph.

If you understand that then you should realize that his words destroys the refuge of lies.

Who’s lies, and who’s words? And what refuge? And why should I realise this?

You think you have the truth so you won't in your pride recognise the truth he speaks

How have I been prideful? And why are you so judgmental, you don’t even know me.

therefore you won’t hear him.

Hear who? Is this a mind reading game? I can’t do that over the internet.

What if I were to tell you that we all including God originated in the lake of fire? You don't know if it is true or not. You probably will say it is not true.

Why are you so hostile to me?

It takes work to get to the lake of fire, a series of steps. Satan didn’t become who he is in a day, yet that’s our pre-pneuma origin?

I don’t think the origins of God are all sunshine, daisies and innocence. I think the scriptures are clear in this regard. But the notion that our earliest waking memories hark back to some torturous, satanic womb which Jesus Himself scripturally used as a symbol for infertility... just doesn’t strike me as compelling.

But you won't know if you are telling the truth or not. So if you do not know how could you judge the quality of my fruit. You can't although you will. So even if you are a leopard by the way you have no claws. And if I have misjudged you please accept my apology.

Man, I don’t want to judge you. You were alluding to a mysterious figure (who is you, apparently?) with a supposedly novel, important message so all I did was request more info about the strange new doctrine being referred to - which hasn’t been addressed at all. That combined with your weird defensiveness makes me think you’re making empty claims and feel easily threatened like they’re fragile.

And you got me. For real, look at that picture, I don’t see claws on that leopard. Just a pair of puffy mittens. The crazy eyes probably make up for it.

[Alaris]

Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears

[Michael Sherwin]

I know a leopard by the way waiting to pounce when I see one.

Read Isaiah 28 knowing that the wine stands for false teaching and the strong drink for false doctrine.

That likely plays a large role, but I don’t think our motivations in viewing it that way are the same.

But do you really believe the term “Ephraim” here is merely used in an ecclesiastical sense, i.e. the Church? I don’t think the Church is perfect but I also feel the lineage and designation of Ephraim transcend the Church.

Look at Europe, letting themselves be conquered while groveling with their substance before their conquerors. Do you deny the European-Ephraim connection? Ever been to Europe, and comprehended the decline? If there were ever nations who “reel with wine”, who once were the world beacon of Christianity to the world and the power of the earth, whose “glorious beauty is as a fading flower”, then it is Europe, the fruitful, birthright bough of Joseph.

If you understand that then you should realize that his words destroys the refuge of lies.

Who’s lies, and who’s words? And what refuge? And why should I realise this?

You think you have the truth so you won't in your pride recognise the truth he speaks

How have I been prideful? And why are you so judgmental, you don’t even know me.

therefore you won’t hear him.

Hear who? Is this a mind reading game? I can’t do that over the internet.

What if I were to tell you that we all including God originated in the lake of fire? You don't know if it is true or not. You probably will say it is not true.

Why are you so hostile to me?

It takes work to get to the lake of fire, a series of steps. Satan didn’t become who he is in a day, yet that’s our pre-pneuma origin?

I don’t think the origins of God are all sunshine, daisies and innocence. I think the scriptures are clear in this regard. But the notion that our earliest waking memories hark back to some torturous, satanic womb which Jesus Himself scripturally used as a symbol for infertility... just doesn’t strike me as compelling.

But you won't know if you are telling the truth or not. So if you do not know how could you judge the quality of my fruit. You can't although you will. So even if you are a leopard by the way you have no claws. And if I have misjudged you please accept my apology.

Man, I don’t want to judge you. You were alluding to a mysterious figure (who is you, apparently?) with a supposedly novel, important message so all I did was request more info about the strange new doctrine being referred to - which hasn’t been addressed at all. That combined with your weird defensiveness makes me think you’re making empty claims and feel easily threatened like they’re fragile.

And you got me. For real, look at that picture, I don’t see claws on that leopard. Just a pair of puffy mittens. The crazy eyes probably make up for it.

Okay what if I say that the falling away in 2 Thes 2:3 is not an apostasy from the Church. That it is something that no else that I know of has ever taught in all of Christendom in all the history of Christendom. Would your initial reaction be - nope it can't be? And it is not in line with LDS doctrine either. So what chance is there that you will believe me?

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The Greek word for the falling away is apostasia which means a moving away from or departing a condition or state of being. Sounds really close to what the English apostasy means. So why did the translators not use the word apostasy? Apostasy originated in the mid to late 14th century. Well apostasia does not strictly mean the same as apostasy because apostasia does not specify what it is that is being departed from. So interpreting it to mean a departing from the Church is just a guess. Now I will show what the apostasia is.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

All three passages are apostasia. When a leaf falls away from the vine it dissolves. It departs being a leaf. It becomes apostasia. The whole earth becomes apostasia.

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isaiah 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall (away), and not rise again.

So the gathering will not happen until this creation is dissolved because the apostasia is the dissolving. Then the resurrection including the gathering. The gathering is to New Jerusalem. And the rest of the resurrected are placed on the new earth. The man of sin will be revealed on the new earth.

If you do not believe any of this then explain.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Psalm 75:2 When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

[ThePowerofEternity111]

I know a leopard by the way waiting to pounce when I see one.

Read Isaiah 28 knowing that the wine stands for false teaching and the strong drink for false doctrine.

That likely plays a large role, but I don’t think our motivations in viewing it that way are the same.

But do you really believe the term “Ephraim” here is merely used in an ecclesiastical sense, i.e. the Church? I don’t think the Church is perfect but I also feel the lineage and designation of Ephraim transcend the Church.

Look at Europe, letting themselves be conquered while groveling with their substance before their conquerors. Do you deny the European-Ephraim connection? Ever been to Europe, and comprehended the decline? If there were ever nations who “reel with wine”, who once were the world beacon of Christianity to the world and the power of the earth, whose “glorious beauty is as a fading flower”, then it is Europe, the fruitful, birthright bough of Joseph.

If you understand that then you should realize that his words destroys the refuge of lies.

Who’s lies, and who’s words? And what refuge? And why should I realise this?

You think you have the truth so you won't in your pride recognise the truth he speaks

How have I been prideful? And why are you so judgmental, you don’t even know me.

therefore you won’t hear him.

Hear who? Is this a mind reading game? I can’t do that over the internet.

What if I were to tell you that we all including God originated in the lake of fire? You don't know if it is true or not. You probably will say it is not true.

Why are you so hostile to me?

It takes work to get to the lake of fire, a series of steps. Satan didn’t become who he is in a day, yet that’s our pre-pneuma origin?

I don’t think the origins of God are all sunshine, daisies and innocence. I think the scriptures are clear in this regard. But the notion that our earliest waking memories hark back to some torturous, satanic womb which Jesus Himself scripturally used as a symbol for infertility... just doesn’t strike me as compelling.

But you won't know if you are telling the truth or not. So if you do not know how could you judge the quality of my fruit. You can't although you will. So even if you are a leopard by the way you have no claws. And if I have misjudged you please accept my apology.

Man, I don’t want to judge you. You were alluding to a mysterious figure (who is you, apparently?) with a supposedly novel, important message so all I did was request more info about the strange new doctrine being referred to - which hasn’t been addressed at all. That combined with your weird defensiveness makes me think you’re making empty claims and feel easily threatened like they’re fragile.

And you got me. For real, look at that picture, I don’t see claws on that leopard. Just a pair of puffy mittens. The crazy eyes probably make up for it.

Okay what if I say that the falling away in 2 Thes 2:3 is not an apostasy from the Church. That it is something that no else that I know of has ever taught in all of Christendom in all the history of Christendom. Would your initial reaction be - nope it can't be? And it is not in line with LDS doctrine either. So what chance is there that you will believe me?

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The Greek word for the falling away is apostasia which means a moving away from or departing a condition or state of being. Sounds really close to what the English apostasy means. So why did the translators not use the word apostasy? Apostasy originated in the mid to late 14th century. Well apostasia does not strictly mean the same as apostasy because apostasia does not specify what it is that is being departed from. So interpreting it to mean a departing from the Church is just a guess. Now I will show what the apostasia is.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

All three passages are apostasia. When a leaf falls away from the vine it dissolves. It departs being a leaf. It becomes apostasia. The whole earth becomes apostasia.

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isaiah 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall (away), and not rise again.

So the gathering will not happen until this creation is dissolved because the apostasia is the dissolving. Then the resurrection including the gathering. The gathering is to New Jerusalem. And the rest of the resurrected are placed on the new earth. The man of sin will be revealed on the new earth.

If you do not believe any of this then explain.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Psalm 75:2 When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

Earth shall again lower in it density before the time it is burned up and the new earth cometh out of the ashes. Thus why it says this.

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The fall of this world and it system meeting almost it entirely destruction is already Authored, the time it shall manifest shall be the day Neo awakens in full, the Light of the World is withdrawn which physical sign shall be shown in all the stars of the heavens above as speaking of space. By a third will every light be dimmed both above in the heavens spaces as in stars/suns and also felt in spirit in every living thing, and shown in a mass dying of many of the things the Lord has created. It is also that time the Dragon is cast down with it servants knowing their time is short, and the Son of perdition is revealed and becomes the King/God of the world a short time, being worshiped by many.

The Great Tribulation shall be what reveals the truly righteous of the world, then another gathers shall take place and the restoration of Zion comes by power, those found worthy shall a increase in Light be given. There will be a gathering of those who are found worthy and counted righteous by the spirit of truth, but many shall be cut of who right now call themselves saints, for the Lord calls them not his brethren or friend for they be workers of iniquity in his own house, this apply to all churches and people.

[ThePowerofEternity111]

This also is the same

Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.

7Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:

8Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:

9And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.

10Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty.

11The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

12For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

13And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,

14And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,

15And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,

16And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.

17And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

18And the idols he shall utterly abolish.

19And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

20In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;

21To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

22Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

This I shall fulfill very soon and world shall not see it coming, for the burning sword of Justice shall be thrust. And I will remember the sins of the world and it iniquity and give unto it as it has done and pour upon them the cup of their abominations and iniquity back upon them, and the devil and it servants will gain power greater to act on the world than ever before in all it history. But all who repented and humbled themselves begging for forgiveness calling on any of my names whether it be Jesus, Emmanuel, Jehovah or Yehoshua or another to them I shall forgive and wash them clean of their sins for it is in my power to do so, for all worlds have I overcome.

Behold the above speaks of the utter desolation of the system of the beast, it first beast another ariseth later when the Beast cometh in flesh and rebuilds the desolated kingdom. All mankind currently have the first mark, and most of mankind is in the underworlds even many saints, and hence why it is spoken the buffeting of Satan until their day of redemption. I have revealed how people may make effort to remove the mark, it is in the gospel teachings it wasn't enough to be baptized, that is for resurrection. The mark that stains the soul of the first beast is on all who are part of this world who have not understood why they must change in heart to want to give up everything for God, including serving others and not forgetting about the poor/needy and sick.

[Alaris]

Do you think Powerofeternity is legitimately speaking for the Lord?

Should I have to before I can say something about mocking people? All I meant was what I said, nothing more, nothing less.

Well you actually said a bit more that suggested you may believe him, hence the question.

However, we can agree about mocking. Fools mock. Perhaps the shortest teaching of Jesus Christ comprised of just two words that say everything. I hope to not be a fool someday myself.

[abijah]

Okay what if I say that the falling away in 2 Thes 2:3 is not an apostasy from the Church. That it is something that no else that I know of has ever taught in all of Christendom in all the history of Christendom. Would your initial reaction be - nope it can't be? And it is not in line with LDS doctrine either. So what chance is there that you will believe me?

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The Greek word for the falling away is apostasia which means a moving away from or departing a condition or state of being. Sounds really close to what the English apostasy means. So why did the translators not use the word apostasy? Apostasy originated in the mid to late 14th century. Well apostasia does not strictly mean the same as apostasy because apostasia does not specify what it is that is being departed from. So interpreting it to mean a departing from the Church is just a guess. Now I will show what the apostasia is.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

All three passages are apostasia. When a leaf falls away from the vine it dissolves. It departs being a leaf. It becomes apostasia. The whole earth becomes apostasia.

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isaiah 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall (away), and not rise again.

So the gathering will not happen until this creation is dissolved because the apostasia is the dissolving. Then the resurrection including the gathering. The gathering is to New Jerusalem. And the rest of the resurrected are placed on the new earth. The man of sin will be revealed on the new earth.

If you do not believe any of this then explain.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Psalm 75:2 When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

I’ve asked you to expound on your assertions which had to do with an unnamed teacher and a “new, strange” message he had to share.

This is the original context of our discussion, this was what I asked you to explain:

Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard.

All you have given me in response is criticisms of the Church. Real original bro, the Church is apostate, mind blown, wow, different than I ever heard

It’s one thing be able to testify of and teach a before-unknown truth. All you’re looking to do is tear down what you deem as false. There is a difference, and what you are doing is easy, which is why you have nothing new to contribute. Your fruit has no sweetness, if you can even call it yours, since it has no origin in you.

[Michael Sherwin]

Okay what if I say that the falling away in 2 Thes 2:3 is not an apostasy from the Church. That it is something that no else that I know of has ever taught in all of Christendom in all the history of Christendom. Would your initial reaction be - nope it can't be? And it is not in line with LDS doctrine either. So what chance is there that you will believe me?

2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The Greek word for the falling away is apostasia which means a moving away from or departing a condition or state of being. Sounds really close to what the English apostasy means. So why did the translators not use the word apostasy? Apostasy originated in the mid to late 14th century. Well apostasia does not strictly mean the same as apostasy because apostasia does not specify what it is that is being departed from. So interpreting it to mean a departing from the Church is just a guess. Now I will show what the apostasia is.

Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

All three passages are apostasia. When a leaf falls away from the vine it dissolves. It departs being a leaf. It becomes apostasia. The whole earth becomes apostasia.

Isaiah 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isaiah 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall (away), and not rise again.

So the gathering will not happen until this creation is dissolved because the apostasia is the dissolving. Then the resurrection including the gathering. The gathering is to New Jerusalem. And the rest of the resurrected are placed on the new earth. The man of sin will be revealed on the new earth.

If you do not believe any of this then explain.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Psalm 75:2 When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.

Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.

I’ve asked you to expound on your assertions which had to do with an unnamed teacher and a “new, strange” message he had to share.

This was what I asked you to explain:

Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard.

All you have given me in response is criticisms of the Church. Real original bro, the Church is apostate, mind blown, wow, never heard that before

It’s one thing be able to testify of and teach a before-unknown truth. All you’re looking to do is tear down what you deem as false. There is a difference, and what you are doing is easy, which is why you have nothing new to contribute.

I am doing nothing of the sort. And you have no answer to the scriptures that I presented. If you see a problem with Church doctrine then the problem is not with the scriptures. Maybe you will understand the blessed hope as it should be taught.

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

2Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

So don't attack me. Tell me what the blessed hope is.

Anyway my assessments are never wrong. I called you out as a leopard by the way ready to pounce. And you proved me correct. This was never going to be a discussion. This was always going to be a put down by you. Be honest and admit it!

[abijah]

I am doing nothing of the sort. And you have no answer to the scriptures that I presented. If you see a problem with Church doctrine then the problem is not with the scriptures. Maybe you will understand the blessed hope as it should be taught.

So don't attack me. Tell me what the blessed hope is.

You keep saying “blessed hope”. Define that.

I don’t think the Church is perfect, nor complete, as I said. I do think there will be one mighty and strong to set the house of God in order, which the Church is a big part of.

I think the one mighty and strong will bear fruits. Fruits greater than saying something is short of the ideal. Maybe my expectations are high.

Anyway my assessments are never wrong.

That’s an easy way to live man, congrats.

I called you out as a leopard by the way ready to pounce. And you proved me correct.

My avatar shows a dragon, they have claws too.

This was never going to be a discussion. This was always going to be a put down by you. Be honest and admit it!

I gave you every opportunity for a discussion and you went on an illogical diatribe against the Church, which was irrelevant and out-of-context, both in terms of what I was quoting and what I asked in response to it.

I asked about a “strange” message about something I “never heard before”, then you start saying how the Church is a failure. Seriously, what am I to make of that? I’ve heard this before, every scripture you quoted, and the personal interpretations sprinkled far and few between.

[Michael Sherwin]

I am doing nothing of the sort. And you have no answer to the scriptures that I presented. If you see a problem with Church doctrine then the problem is not with the scriptures. Maybe you will understand the blessed hope as it should be taught.

So don't attack me. Tell me what the blessed hope is.

You keep saying “blessed hope”. Define that.

I don’t think the Church is perfect, nor complete, as I said. I do think there will be one mighty and strong to set the house of God in order, which the Church is a big part of.

I think the one mighty and strong will bear fruits. Fruits greater than saying something is short of the ideal. Maybe my expectations are high.

Anyway my assessments are never wrong.

That’s an easy way to live man, congrats.

I called you out as a leopard by the way ready to pounce. And you proved me correct.

My avatar shows a dragon, they have claws too.

This was never going to be a discussion. This was always going to be a put down by you. Be honest and admit it!

I gave you every opportunity for a discussion and you went on an illogical diatribe against the Church, which was irrelevant and out-of-context, both in terms of what I was quoting and what I asked in response to it.

I asked about a “strange” message about something I “never heard before”, then you start saying how the Church is a failure. Seriously, what am I to make of that? I’ve heard this before, every scripture you quoted, and the personal interpretations sprinkled far and few between.

I don't think that you are being truthful but in any case we are done.

[Alaris]

I am doing nothing of the sort. And you have no answer to the scriptures that I presented. If you see a problem with Church doctrine then the problem is not with the scriptures. Maybe you will understand the blessed hope as it should be taught.

So don't attack me. Tell me what the blessed hope is.

You keep saying “blessed hope”. Define that.

I don’t think the Church is perfect, nor complete, as I said. I do think there will be one mighty and strong to set the house of God in order, which the Church is a big part of.

I think the one mighty and strong will bear fruits. Fruits greater than saying something is short of the ideal. Maybe my expectations are high.

Anyway my assessments are never wrong.

That’s an easy way to live man, congrats.

I called you out as a leopard by the way ready to pounce. And you proved me correct.

My avatar shows a dragon, they have claws too.

This was never going to be a discussion. This was always going to be a put down by you. Be honest and admit it!

I gave you every opportunity for a discussion and you went on an illogical diatribe against the Church, which was irrelevant and out-of-context, both in terms of what I was quoting and what I asked in response to it.

I asked about a “strange” message about something I “never heard before”, then you start saying how the Church is a failure. Seriously, what am I to make of that? I’ve heard this before, every scripture you quoted, and the personal interpretations sprinkled far and few between.

I don't think that you are being truthful but in any case we are done.

Abijah is many things - most quite awesome things. Dishonest is not one of those things.

[simpleton]

I am doing nothing of the sort. And you have no answer to the scriptures that I presented. If you see a problem with Church doctrine then the problem is not with the scriptures. Maybe you will understand the blessed hope as it should be taught.

So don't attack me. Tell me what the blessed hope is.

You keep saying “blessed hope”. Define that.

I don’t think the Church is perfect, nor complete, as I said. I do think there will be one mighty and strong to set the house of God in order, which the Church is a big part of.

I think the one mighty and strong will bear fruits. Fruits greater than saying something is short of the ideal. Maybe my expectations are high. I do not think your expectations are high enough.

Anyway my assessments are never wrong.

That’s an easy way to live man, congrats.

I called you out as a leopard by the way ready to pounce. And you proved me correct.

My avatar shows a dragon, they have claws too.

This was never going to be a discussion. This was always going to be a put down by you. Be honest and admit it!

I gave you every opportunity for a discussion and you went on an illogical diatribe against the Church, which was irrelevant and out-of-context, both in terms of what I was quoting and what I asked in response to it.

I asked about a “strange” message about something I “never heard before”, then you start saying how the Church is a failure. Seriously, what am I to make of that? I’ve heard this before, every scripture you quoted, and the personal interpretations sprinkled far and few between.

I don't think that you are being truthful but in any case we are done.

Abijah is many things - most quite awesome things. Dishonest is not one of those things.

[Michael Sherwin]

I am doing nothing of the sort. And you have no answer to the scriptures that I presented. If you see a problem with Church doctrine then the problem is not with the scriptures. Maybe you will understand the blessed hope as it should be taught.

So don't attack me. Tell me what the blessed hope is.

You keep saying “blessed hope”. Define that.

I don’t think the Church is perfect, nor complete, as I said. I do think there will be one mighty and strong to set the house of God in order, which the Church is a big part of.

I think the one mighty and strong will bear fruits. Fruits greater than saying something is short of the ideal. Maybe my expectations are high.

Anyway my assessments are never wrong.

That’s an easy way to live man, congrats.

I called you out as a leopard by the way ready to pounce. And you proved me correct.

My avatar shows a dragon, they have claws too.

This was never going to be a discussion. This was always going to be a put down by you. Be honest and admit it!

I gave you every opportunity for a discussion and you went on an illogical diatribe against the Church, which was irrelevant and out-of-context, both in terms of what I was quoting and what I asked in response to it.

I asked about a “strange” message about something I “never heard before”, then you start saying how the Church is a failure. Seriously, what am I to make of that? I’ve heard this before, every scripture you quoted, and the personal interpretations sprinkled far and few between.

I don't think that you are being truthful but in any case we are done.

Abijah is many things - most quite awesome things. Dishonest is not one of those things.

Then he is mistaken. And yet he says he has heard before what I posted. Can he show me or will he show me where he has heard or read that the falling away is the dissolving of this creation. I have never seen it anywhere before and I have been saying it for a very long time. If he can't present evidence that he has heard that somewhere before then it looks like he lied about it. But it's okay, he does not have to prove anything to me.

[Alaris]

You keep saying “blessed hope”. Define that.

I don’t think the Church is perfect, nor complete, as I said. I do think there will be one mighty and strong to set the house of God in order, which the Church is a big part of.

I think the one mighty and strong will bear fruits. Fruits greater than saying something is short of the ideal. Maybe my expectations are high.



That’s an easy way to live man, congrats.



My avatar shows a dragon, they have claws too.



I gave you every opportunity for a discussion and you went on an illogical diatribe against the Church, which was irrelevant and out-of-context, both in terms of what I was quoting and what I asked in response to it.

I asked about a “strange” message about something I “never heard before”, then you start saying how the Church is a failure. Seriously, what am I to make of that? I’ve heard this before, every scripture you quoted, and the personal interpretations sprinkled far and few between.

I don't think that you are being truthful but in any case we are done.

Abijah is many things - most quite awesome things. Dishonest is not one of those things.

Then he is mistaken. And yet he says he has heard before what I posted. Can he show me or will he show me where he has heard or read that the falling away is the dissolving of this creation. I have never seen it anywhere before and I have been saying it for a very long time. If he can't present evidence that he has heard that somewhere before then it looks like he lied about it. But it's okay, he does not have to prove anything to me.

Please don't take this the wrong way. Again, this is a concern and not a mocking or ridicule or anything like that. The servant is supposed to have the spirit of judgement ala Isaiah 11. You seem to have misjudged quite a few folks in your early posts here. I'm actually pleasantly surprised how cordial folks have been to you. Yet you seem rather defensive like you're being attacked. The servant will descend below Israel and will need a stronger jaw than glass when he bears the iniquities of his people. Do you believe the Davidic Servant will descend below Israel? In order to ascend above Israel, he must descend below Israel. I think fewer folks would be so eager to claim the title if they knew.

Just to be frank Michael - I do admire your bravery. I think your birth sign is extremely cool and may even be significant. I AM, another Davidic Servant fan, shares your birthday it seems. What are the chances? Many, many babies were born that day.

However I know several folks who have cool birth signs and repeating number patterns. That doesn't make them all the Davidic Servant. I asked you in the other thread how you know - how do you know you are the servant? Please feel free to answer in either post.

Oh .. and in that same spirit of frankness, with my testimony that President Nelson is a prophet of God - a telltale sign of a false servant is the one who fights against - rather than for - Israel.

[Michael Sherwin]

I don't think that you are being truthful but in any case we are done.

Abijah is many things - most quite awesome things. Dishonest is not one of those things.

Then he is mistaken. And yet he says he has heard before what I posted. Can he show me or will he show me where he has heard or read that the falling away is the dissolving of this creation. I have never seen it anywhere before and I have been saying it for a very long time. If he can't present evidence that he has heard that somewhere before then it looks like he lied about it. But it's okay, he does not have to prove anything to me.

Please don't take this the wrong way. Again, this is a concern and not a mocking or ridicule or anything like that. The servant is supposed to have the spirit of judgement ala Isaiah 11. You seem to have misjudged quite a few folks in your early posts here. I'm actually pleasantly surprised how cordial folks have been to you. Yet you seem rather defensive like you're being attacked. The servant will descend below Israel and will need a stronger jaw than glass when he bears the iniquities of his people. Do you believe the Davidic Servant will descend below Israel? In order to ascend above Israel, he must descend below Israel. I think fewer folks would be so eager to claim the title if they knew.

Just to be frank Michael - I do admire your bravery. I think your birth sign is extremely cool and may even be significant. I AM, another Davidic Servant fan, shares your birthday it seems. What are the chances? Many, many babies were born that day.

However I know several folks who have cool birth signs and repeating number patterns. That doesn't make them all the Davidic Servant. I asked you in the other thread how you know - how do you know you are the servant? Please feel free to answer in either post.

Oh .. and in that same spirit of frankness, with my testimony that President Nelson is a prophet of God - a telltale sign of a false servant is the one who fights against - rather than for - Israel.

I responded before I read this, lol. Do you not think it strange that 3 of us share the same birth date? You me and possibly I AM. And that two are arguing against one. It is bizarre to say the least. Something is up whether we can figure it out or not. This is just not all coincidence! Anyway I'm bowing out of all other threads. So please if you want to continue this conversation please come to my "Introduce Yourself" thread.

[Alaris]

I responded before I read this, lol. Do you not think it strange that 3 of us share the same birth date? You me and possibly I AM. And that two are arguing against one. It is bizarre to say the least. Something is up whether we can figure it out or not. This is just not all coincidence! Anyway I'm bowing out of all other threads. So please if you want to continue this conversation please come to my "Introduce Yourself" thread.

I do not share your birthday and am unsure how you came to that ....oh ... no "I AM" is the name of the user who shares your birthday. Not... you share the same birthday as I AM. lol haha funny misunderstanding there.

I AM is a great guy and I enjoy his posts and learn from him. Yet he doesn't believe the Holy Ghost exists, and he also believes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is lost, which puts him on my personal, "can't be the DS" list.

[Michael Sherwin]

I responded before I read this, lol. Do you not think it strange that 3 of us share the same birth date? You me and possibly I AM. And that two are arguing against one. It is bizarre to say the least. Something is up whether we can figure it out or not. This is just not all coincidence! Anyway I'm bowing out of all other threads. So please if you want to continue this conversation please come to my "Introduce Yourself" thread.

I do not share your birthday and am unsure how you came to that ....oh ... no "I AM" is the name of the user who shares your birthday. Not... you share the same birthday as I AM. lol haha funny misunderstanding there.

I AM is a great guy and I enjoy his posts and learn from him. Yet he doesn't believe the Holy Ghost exists, and he also believes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is lost, which puts him on my personal, "can't be the DS" list.

This one, then I AM done here, lol. I just read too fast. Sorry for the mixup. AM I still on the list somewhere. Even if it is under the not likely heading.

[I AM]

I responded before I read this, lol. Do you not think it strange that 3 of us share the same birth date? You me and possibly I AM. And that two are arguing against one. It is bizarre to say the least. Something is up whether we can figure it out or not. This is just not all coincidence! Anyway I'm bowing out of all other threads. So please if you want to continue this conversation please come to my "Introduce Yourself" thread.

I do not share your birthday and am unsure how you came to that ....oh ... no "I AM" is the name of the user who shares your birthday. Not... you share the same birthday as I AM. lol haha funny misunderstanding there.

I AM is a great guy and I enjoy his posts and learn from him. Yet he doesn't believe the Holy Ghost exists, and he also believes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is lost, which puts him on my personal, "can't be the DS" list.

---------------
Alaris, you write tons of "stuff", but If you knew ANYTHING, (which you don't seem to) about the Davidic servant, you would know that that's EXACTLY WHY he is sent to the church-
with the words of Christ (sealed portion),but is rejected)
because the church IS LOST, and HAS FALLEN INTO APOSTASY !

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51369&p=927567#p927567
"The Lord's end-time Davidic Servant (marred servant)
A servant of God who cries repentance to the Lord's latter-day people who have lapsed into apostasy from their destined mission to establish the kingdom of God on the earth."

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-4, 13,14
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the @#$ its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel, they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

and a thousand other scriptures.

and btw just to set the record straight -
I DO BELIEVE IN THE HOLY GHOST !
just not as you do. * 1. *

I tend to stick with the more traditional belief that most accept, and what the scriptures say,
and that is that the Holy Ghost is NOTHING MORE than what the scriptures say it is - the Lord's spirit.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48060&p=932227#p932227

so I think it's rather obvious by my posts, and ridiculous to say -
" he doesn't believe the Holy Ghost exists".
You know you really shouldn't be making false accusations about others.

where you come up with these things
I guess it's where you come up with all your other strange theories.
* 1. * "The Davidic Servant is The Holy Ghost" ! ! !
maybe YOU are really the one that doesn't believe in the Holy Ghost

*** sorry but - no debates this time ***
you're not going to pull me into another one of your endless pits
with your long drawn out theories.

[ThePowerofEternity111]

It is the membership that is in apostasy the core doctrines within the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the Bible are all still valid, it is the people who failed to establish Zion in their hearts that it may come forth, that is why Zion will come only by power during the saints hardest trials when the chickens scatter and the eggs are being consumed by serpents, and much weeping and wailing for the Lord that is when they shall be humbled to meet requirements to build Zion, all those who in that time endure and are found worthy.

Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Thus as was warned about the curse is coming, the saints did not build the Zion that was meant to be established that if it had been established the world would have been spared, but this was foreknown by God even when it was said. For the children of the earth, have pride and hardened hearts and love themselves more than their Lord and God, and their neighbors, many do almost all for many only do the temple works even for their own glory seeking exaltation's and many only tithe to be blessed in seeking increase. Thus the hearts are measured of the world and many are found wanting, and few are chosen out of this generation to be spared and many shall be put to great trials knowing it shall save them and the chosen shall be shown the greater mystery's and walk the true straight and narrow path, and in the time of sorrows of tribulations shall Zion finally be established by those who remain, and it will be by One of one liken to Moses who shall bring it forth to save Zion and fulfill the prophecy.

I have revealed in my newest Thread how to meet the requirements of the law to be the few men left. I am who I said I am and people best humble themselves for this is no joking matter, in my grace have I taken time to try aid souls through this forum in hopes more may be saved from the day of burning, but those who judge and mock they shall my spirit be withdrawn from in time I depart, for it shall only be given greater to the truly righteous and the truly righteous do not act as vipers. Now again I call all in the world to repent and begin to live by mine gospel and commandments before it is too late.