Mike Stroud Reeled in by the church

[I AM]

more like - he was hitting a little too close to home by bring out the truth of really where the church is - in apostasy.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the donkey its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.

--------------------

I am saying I am righteous ?
How does quoting Isaiah say that I am righteous ?
It's what Isaiah' is saying, not me.
And YES, Isaiah, along with the words of Jesus Christ and prophets in the Book of Mormon,
not only say that the church is off base, but in apostasy.
I could quote pages of scriptures (which I have already done in this forum) showing this.
Look up some of my posts and comments.
The first 3 chapters of Isaiah bring out the major sins of the people and of the church.

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.
ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/

Here is one you might want to read taking about the church - "the drunkards of Ephraim! "

Isaiah 28
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you realize that in the 29th chapter of Isaiah he describes the coming forth
of the original plates of the Book of Mormon and the attitude
of the people against it.

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

Now if the 29th Chapter of Isaiah refers to our people and nation,
then it is very feasible that the 28th chapter may also refer to us.
If you want a big wake up call please read it !
If you study this 28th chapter of Isaiah
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

We are still satisfied with the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,precept upon precept,
precept upon precept;a trifle here, a trifle there.

To me, you quote Isaiah according to your own interpretation that seems to condemn almost everyone else. So, you are setting yourself up as better than everyone else, or almost everyone else.
I was just reading in TPJS and read this:
"Do Not Betray the Brethren
O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key—that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing, lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.

A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man."

Uhm, it sounds to me like you are doing just this. Maybe I am wrong and misunderstand you. If that is so, I apologize. But, I don't think I do.

----------------------------------------------------
Again, you better study the words of Isaiah my friend
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/
My post in this forum viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31850
and do as Jesus commanded us to do,
because "all is NOT well in Zion " as you think it is.

2 Nephi 28:21,24,25
21 And others will he pacify,
and lull them away into carnal security,
that they will say: All is well in Zion;
yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—
and thus the devil cheateth their souls,
and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

WHY DID THE LORD HIMSELF SAY
"for great are the words of Isaiah" and
gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Because they are speaking about us - the church and it's leaders.

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."

3 "And all things that he spake (have been and shall be),
even according to the words which he spake."

4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles."

3 Nephi 20:11
11 "Ye remember that I spake unto you,
and said that when the words of Isaiah
should be fulfilled—behold they are written,
ye have them before you, therefore search them-"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy." not just listen to nice talks

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy. We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you, nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy (2 Nephi 25:4).

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness. If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

[Rand]

Who ascribes Isaiah's writing to the modern Church?
Isaiah specifically says he is referring to Judah.
1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."
Your saying it applies to the modern LDS Church may be only your opinion, not fact, as you assert it to be. Personally, I don't think you are right in your application of it.
We can all repent and be better. Not saying the whole church is as righteous as it needs to be. But it seems to me you are saying you are righteous and the brethren and the body of the church are off base.

--------------------

I am saying I am righteous ?
How does quoting Isaiah say that I am righteous ?
It's what Isaiah' is saying, not me.
And YES, Isaiah, along with the words of Jesus Christ and prophets in the Book of Mormon,
not only say that the church is off base, but in apostasy.
I could quote pages of scriptures (which I have already done in this forum) showing this.
Look up some of my posts and comments.
The first 3 chapters of Isaiah bring out the major sins of the people and of the church.

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.
ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/

Here is one you might want to read taking about the church - "the drunkards of Ephraim! "

Isaiah 28
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you realize that in the 29th chapter of Isaiah he describes the coming forth
of the original plates of the Book of Mormon and the attitude
of the people against it.

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

Now if the 29th Chapter of Isaiah refers to our people and nation,
then it is very feasible that the 28th chapter may also refer to us.
If you want a big wake up call please read it !
If you study this 28th chapter of Isaiah
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

We are still satisfied with the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,precept upon precept,
precept upon precept;a trifle here, a trifle there.

To me, you quote Isaiah according to your own interpretation that seems to condemn almost everyone else. So, you are setting yourself up as better than everyone else, or almost everyone else.
I was just reading in TPJS and read this:
"Do Not Betray the Brethren
O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key—that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come. Yea, in all your kicking and flounderings, see to it that you do not this thing, lest innocent blood be found upon your skirts, and you go down to hell. All other sins are not to be compared to sinning against the Holy Ghost, and proving a traitor to the brethren.

A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man."

Uhm, it sounds to me like you are doing just this. Maybe I am wrong and misunderstand you. If that is so, I apologize. But, I don't think I do.

----------------------------------------------------
Again, you better study the words of Isaiah my friend
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/
My post in this forum viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31850
and do as Jesus commanded us to do,
because "all is NOT well in Zion " as you think it is.

Did I say I think all is well in Zion? No. What is Zion in this case? It is the whole of North and South America, as Joseph indicated it was. All is not well in Zion.
Zion can also be identified as the pure in heart. Well, I think things are well in that application of Zion.

Zion is not the body of the Church, at least in this application. We are to establish Zion. But we have not yet done that.

I have studied Isaiah, but I do not agree with your interpretations, at least the ones I see you express, no matter how much you have studied Isaiah.

[Arenera]

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/mstr ... 2_55-08_00

Mike Stroud has been counseled and talked to by the church, has admitted a list of inappropriate teachings, and will willfully submit to the church. He will cease his podcasts and take them off the internet. The link is his last podcast, all of which will be taken down in a few days.

It appears Mike Stroud has just been excommunicated. He started a podcast on the Book of Mormon, with additional comments on coming to Christ. It seems like the comments on coming to Christ is the issue.

[inho]

It appears Mike Stroud has just been excommunicated. He started a podcast on the Book of Mormon, with additional comments on coming to Christ. It seems like the comments on coming to Christ is the issue.

That's what he tells: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/mstr ... 6_24-08_00. I haven't listen to his new podcasts, so I don't know how he has erred. Now I feel even less inclined to listen to them.

[Arenera]

It appears Mike Stroud has just been excommunicated. He started a podcast on the Book of Mormon, with additional comments on coming to Christ. It seems like the comments on coming to Christ is the issue.

That's what he tells: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/mstr ... 6_24-08_00. I haven't listen to his new podcasts, so I don't know how he has erred. Now I feel even less inclined to listen to them.

Mike is positive on the Church, leaders, and President Nelson. Maybe coming to Christ is intended to be a personal journey.

[investigator]

Here is a man who testifies of the truthfulness of the Book Of Mormon, that Joseph Smith is a great prophet seer and revelator, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a continuation of what Joseph began and that President Nelson is a "mighty prophet of God" and yet the Church excommunicates him for not bowing to their supposed priesthood authority to control what he teaches.

I have but one thing to say to those who excommunicated this man as a means of controlling him:

"AMEN TO THE PRIESTHOOD OR THE AUTHORITY OF [THOSE MEN]"

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness. 37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man. 38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; 42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

[mirkwood]

Stroud has been in a state of apostasy for a while.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XIt ... SRc-iK8qzs

[Jesef]

Stroud has been in a state of apostasy for a while.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XIt ... SRc-iK8qzs

He mentioned the name "Denver Snuffer" - that's probably what really got him in trouble. It's automatic "apostasy".

[e-eye2.0]

Stroud has been in a state of apostasy for a while.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XIt ... SRc-iK8qzs

So far pretty in line with the Denver Snuffer path. an attempt to get into the meat of the gospel, followed by a following of people and the inability to stop said teaching's.

Hopefully he does a course correction but that can be difficult because he already had a chance to and didn't.

Obtaining a following can prove to be a downfall of many people who had good intentions in their mind.

[Jesef]

Stroud has been in a state of apostasy for a while.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XIt ... SRc-iK8qzs

So far pretty in line with the Denver Snuffer path. an attempt to get into the meat of the gospel, followed by a following of people and the inability to stop said teaching's.

Hopefully he does a course correction but that can be difficult because he already had a chance to and didn't.

Obtaining a following can prove to be a downfall of many people who had good intentions in their mind.

Or maybe he will just join the DS movement...

[h_p]

The man loves the Lord and expressed his faith and love for God, the church and its leaders mere days after being excommunicated. If this is what counts for apostasy, well I don't know what church this is anymore.

[Col. Flagg]

I don't get the Snuffer movement... at all???

[Jesef]

The man loves the Lord and expressed his faith and love for God, the church and its leaders mere days after being excommunicated. If this is what counts for apostasy, well I don't know what church this is anymore.

It's the Church of hyper-loyalty & authorized social changes, i.e. as long as it comes from the top (the 15, the "keys" of the Kingdom) you're good to go. Don't step out of line, it's that simple. Like the movie "Bug's Life" - "get back in line!" (And don't stand or sit before they do, either.) Just a few simple rules & you won't get excommunicated. And don't start a Podcast either.

[Col. Flagg]

The man loves the Lord and expressed his faith and love for God, the church and its leaders mere days after being excommunicated. If this is what counts for apostasy, well I don't know what church this is anymore.

The church has ex'd members for teaching the same disturbing and faith-challenging information now contained in their essays on lds.org as well as others who were questioning church history/doctrine while maintaining a firm belief in God and our Savior.

[Jesef]

It's NDA & loyalty (whistleblowing) violations, to put it in corporate terms. And copyright infringement (don't pretend you KNOW like we do). "Don't step out of line" (variation on "follow us", and don't sit or stand before us) also means don't be forward-thinking - wait for them to do the thinking.

[Col. Flagg]

I almost made that same analogy.

[e-eye2.0]

The man loves the Lord and expressed his faith and love for God, the church and its leaders mere days after being excommunicated. If this is what counts for apostasy, well I don't know what church this is anymore.

Denver Snuffer - pretty much the same.

Things that will get you tossed:
Large followings
apostate/speculative doctrine
Pride

Mike, wouldn't stop doing what he was asked not to do which fell into the apostate/speculative doctrine. He was doing this with a large following. Some people just can't help themselves. We don't have all the story and may never have it but from past experience and what we know Mike checked all the boxes. He can come back if he wants to but if he isn't going to end his podcasts it sounds like he is not in any hurry.

[h_p]

Mike, wouldn't stop doing what he was asked not to do which fell into the apostate/speculative doctrine.

You can march in gay pride parades and agitate for acceptance of gay marriages, but not preach that you can see angels, receive the baptism of fire, and commune with the Lord. Got it.

The man can answer truthfully to all the temple recommend questions and pass, yet can't be a member of the church. That just makes no sense to me. Ah well. I wish him luck in his journey. If he's right with God, then no man can touch him. If he's not, then nothing I say here makes any difference.

[e-eye2.0]

Mike, wouldn't stop doing what he was asked not to do which fell into the apostate/speculative doctrine.

You can march in gay pride parades and agitate for acceptance of gay marriages, but not preach that you can see angels, receive the baptism of fire, and commune with the Lord. Got it.

The man can answer truthfully to all the temple recommend questions and pass, yet can't be a member of the church. That just makes no sense to me. Ah well. I wish him luck in his journey. If he's right with God, then no man can touch him. If he's not, then nothing I say here makes any difference.

Look what Denver Snuffer did. Pulled a bunch of people out of the church. Yes, you can do a lot of bad stuff and not get tossed but when you get a big following it gets real very quickly. That's why they call it wolves in sheep's clothing. The prepper community is stunned as they didn't see it coming.

[Arenera]

Mike, wouldn't stop doing what he was asked not to do which fell into the apostate/speculative doctrine.

You can march in gay pride parades and agitate for acceptance of gay marriages, but not preach that you can see angels, receive the baptism of fire, and commune with the Lord. Got it.

The man can answer truthfully to all the temple recommend questions and pass, yet can't be a member of the church. That just makes no sense to me. Ah well. I wish him luck in his journey. If he's right with God, then no man can touch him. If he's not, then nothing I say here makes any difference.

Denver Snuffer was negative against the Church and Leaders.

Mike is positive. I don’t understand this. The spiritual experiences are in the Book of Mormon, D&C, PoGP, Bible. The Leaders need to explain it.

[Jesef]

Mike, wouldn't stop doing what he was asked not to do which fell into the apostate/speculative doctrine.

You can march in gay pride parades and agitate for acceptance of gay marriages, but not preach that you can see angels, receive the baptism of fire, and commune with the Lord. Got it.

The man can answer truthfully to all the temple recommend questions and pass, yet can't be a member of the church. That just makes no sense to me. Ah well. I wish him luck in his journey. If he's right with God, then no man can touch him. If he's not, then nothing I say here makes any difference.

Denver Snuffer was negative against the Church and Leaders.

Mike is positive. I don’t understand this. The spiritual experiences are in the Book of Mormon, D&C, PoGP, Bible. The Leaders need to explain it.

There's nothing to see here...

[Kenco]

mike Stroud taught false doctrines, much of which were teachings of new age spiritualism. Energy healing philosophies. I’m glad that he won’t be deceiving members of the church by using his membership status.
Now it’s time to put energy healing in its place!

[investigator]

Mike, wouldn't stop doing what he was asked not to do which fell into the apostate/speculative doctrine.

You can march in gay pride parades and agitate for acceptance of gay marriages, but not preach that you can see angels, receive the baptism of fire, and commune with the Lord. Got it.

The man can answer truthfully to all the temple recommend questions and pass, yet can't be a member of the church. That just makes no sense to me. Ah well. I wish him luck in his journey. If he's right with God, then no man can touch him. If he's not, then nothing I say here makes any difference.

Look what Denver Snuffer did. Pulled a bunch of people out of the church. Yes, you can do a lot of bad stuff and not get tossed but when you get a big following it gets real very quickly. That's why they call it wolves in sheep's clothing. The prepper community is stunned as they didn't see it coming.

Whose behavior is more like a wolf in sheep's clothing. The man who is doing his humble best to follow the path he believes the Savior is taking him on or the Stake President who uses the threat of force and coercion to attempt to modify a behavior that is harming no one; then sever's the man from the church because of what he teaches. He has broken no commandment, committed no crime, violated no covenant other that disobedience to a man. "Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men". People have their agency. No one is forcing them to listen to Stroud's pod casts. Try to persuade Stroud with gentleness, meekness, and love unfeigned if he doesn't come around let him go his way.

[endlessQuestions]

Stroud has been in a state of apostasy for a while.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XIt ... SRc-iK8qzs

That's a document worth reading.

[endlessQuestions]

Mike, wouldn't stop doing what he was asked not to do which fell into the apostate/speculative doctrine.

You can march in gay pride parades and agitate for acceptance of gay marriages, but not preach that you can see angels, receive the baptism of fire, and commune with the Lord. Got it.

The man can answer truthfully to all the temple recommend questions and pass, yet can't be a member of the church. That just makes no sense to me. Ah well. I wish him luck in his journey. If he's right with God, then no man can touch him. If he's not, then nothing I say here makes any difference.

Denver Snuffer was negative against the Church and Leaders.

Mike is positive. I don’t understand this. The spiritual experiences are in the Book of Mormon, D&C, PoGP, Bible. The Leaders need to explain it.

I have some personal experience with a relative who believes she is receiving revelation from the Holy Ghost, but is clearly deceived. Multiple priesthood holders with stewardship over her have told her that the revelation is false. A couple women who know of the experience have told her it's not from the Lord. I have spent hours counseling with her, to no avail. She is convinced that she has received a special revelation.

She loves the church. She believes in our leaders (except for her local ones, on this particular issue). She would never speak ill of either. But she's deceived.

It appears to me that Mike is deceived. I'm sure he does love the church and its leaders, but apparently not as much as he loves the experiences he's claiming to have, and the attention they seem to bring. Time will tell whether he's made the right choice.