Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

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Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Yea
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48%
Nay
8
35%
1
0
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3
2
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Total votes: 23
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BeNotDeceived
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Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

You may check up to 4 items on the list.

1) Internal search of lds.org

2) Google.com search of site:lds.org

3) Google.com search with "lds" appended.

4) Other, please explain in your post.

If you searched via any of the three links, please so indicate, and supply comments.

This is a repost because the original thread was lost; when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. :mrgreen:

You may change your selections at any time. If you vote "yea" then please explain how and/or why, in your post.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

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Four Acconts of Creation on lds.org

My initial answer is nay, and best hit so far via link #2.

Reminds me of "scipture chase" of long ago; do people still do that?

JohnnyL
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by JohnnyL »

According to Mormon belief, the earth was not created "here", but somewhere else.

After the Fall, it fell to here.

Did anything else fall?

Of course, MSS will tell you a planet moving from one solar system to another is impossible.

Would earth's creation be different, in a different environment?

What effects would the Fall have on the earth?

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

JohnnyL wrote: September 13th, 2017, 2:02 pm According to Mormon belief, the earth was not created "here", but somewhere else.

After the Fall, it fell to here.

Did anything else fall?

Of course, MSS will tell you a planet moving from one solar system to another is impossible.

Would earth's creation be different, in a different environment?

What effects would the Fall have on the earth?
I have a friend who has read a bunch of ancient writings. He told me about one that says the earth had a miniature star as it's companion while coming here. And that when they arrived here, earth took up it's current orbit and the mini star lost it's glory to the sun and became Saturn.
If you look into plasma physics and the electric universe, it all seems to fit together. I haven't looked at it for a while but you might just google it.

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brlenox
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by brlenox »

Following is from some personal study I did about 10 years ago but it speaks to this subject albeit in somewhat greater detail than might be anticipated.

To shorten if one is not inclined to read these are the points made in the text that follows this list.

1.) Light is the law and power by which all things are governed. (D & C 88)
2.) There was a fall in space. (quote by Brigham Young below)
3.) Each Kingdom exists in differing degrees of light and a lower kingdom cannot tolerate the degree of light of a higher kingdom. (D & C 88)
4.) New research showing how gene expression can be controlled, turned off and on, by the quantity or quality of UV light that triggers expression. Thus simply by altering UV light as would occur in changes in higher kingdoms one might experience greater capacities associated with a higher being. Photographic memory, longevity, tolerance to higher intensity of light etc.

CONDITION 2 - FALL IN LIGHT
The premise for this condition is a given based on what we know of the earth’s origins. Nonetheless it possibly suffers from lack of thoughtful consideration as to the impact of the fall in this remarkable resource as it existed during the earth’s Edenic state. If matter was existing in a eternal state and then fell below the standard of being able to tolerate the conditions of an eternal state, one would readily perceive that these conditions were no longer beneficial to sustaining the matter. Instead it would negatively impact the matter by increasing the destructive effect of conditions of perfection and purity upon corrupted matter. One of the key environmental factors of a perfect state is the nature and quality of the light source that is manifest in an eternal state. If matter has begun a process of change that is devolving to a corrupted state and the intent was to preserve that matter for as long as necessary to accomplish desired objectives, it would need to be moved from its proximity to the pure renewing light source to a distance where a diffused lesser light source could sustain the life giving forces temporarily without destroying them by burning them out. That light is perhaps the primary force sustained in scripture as the controlling element of all things is extrapolated from the following verse:
D & C 88:13

13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.
Thus, the first facet of the fall discussed in its physical movement from one location to another has intrinsic in the process the second objective to move from one location to another to reach a safe distance from excessive exposure to the effects of perfected light. This distance is suitable to sustain a process of a slow death by providing a diffused light to prevent a total immediate absence of light which would be instant physical death. This quote by Brigham Young, already referenced also has reference to changes in the orb which provides our light:
When the earth was framed and brought into existence and man was placed upon it, it was near the throne of our Father in heaven. And when man fell—though that was designed in the economy, there was nothing about it mysterious or unknown to the Gods, they understood it all, it was all planned— but when man fell, the earth fell into space, and took up its abode in this planetary system, and the sun became our light. When the Lord said—"Let there be light," there was light, for the earth was brought near the sun that it might reflect upon it so as to give us light by day, and the moon to give us light by night. This is the glory the earth came from, and when it is glorified it will return again unto the presence of the Father, and it will dwell there, 20. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 17:143.)
The physical conditions that may relate to the trauma of a fall in space can easily contribute to the evidences of mass die offs of species from cataclysmic conditions such as ice, water, fire and any other condition that I have considered. Additionally, one of the foundational principles of measuring the age of organic and non-organic substances is based on scientific understandings of the rate of decay of radioactive isotopes. This will be covered later but to introduce the subject there are several assumptions that scientists make that are completely at odds with the idea of a physical fall in space and a change in the nature of light received from the sun or suns around which this earth existed prior to the fall. These assumptions are:

a.) The balance between Carbon-14 production and decay has always been the same;
b.) The rate of Carbon-14 decay has not altered;
c.) Organic material tested has not been contaminated by Carbon-14 since its death;
d.) Earth's magnetic field intensity has not changed;
4.) Cosmic ray intensity has not changed.

If any of these factors are not precisely as they exist according to the current state of existence the laws of physics used to calculate and assess the age of the earth, fossils, rocks and any other age measured matter would be in error. There appears to be little scriptural insight as to the magnitude that the changes in location and degree, intensity, or quality of light that may have existed in precise measurable quantities prior to the fall. However, it is known that each of these conditions would have been far different in a purified state than that of a telestial mortal state. The sources of that difference may be two fold.

In the first consideration, simple proximity to cosmic influences is going to create distinct impact on the nature of cosmic ray influences and affect Carbon-14 decay rates, production, and quantity as well as other radiometric dating criteria. Potential for how these influences could be understood will be explored a little later in this section.

The second consideration has to do with the nature of the glorified beings that inhabit eternal realms and who also provide in some measure the life and light force that sustains planets and stars in the functions to which they are assigned. While this state of glory is absolutely not understood there are certain effects that scripture speaks to about being in the presence of such a glorified being. One aspect of Christ’s second coming that seems particularly singular is the inability of the wicked and anything of a telestial level to bear his presence:
Doctrine and Covenants 133:41
41 And it shall be answered upon their heads; for the presence of the Lord shall be as the melting fire that burneth, and as the fire which causeth the waters to boil.
Doctrine and Covenants 101:24-25

24 And every corruptible thing, both of man, or of the beasts of the field, or of the fowls of the heavens, or of the fish of the sea, that dwells upon all the face of the earth, shall be consumed;

25 And also that of element shall melt with fervent heat; and all things shall become new, that my knowledge and glory may dwell upon all the earth.


2 Peter 3:10

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Nephi 6:14

14 And behold, according to the words of the prophet, the Messiah will set himself again the second time to recover them; wherefore, he will manifest himself unto them in power and great glory, unto the destruction of their enemies, when that day cometh when they shall believe in him; and none will he destroy that believe in him.
As the second coming is precipitous to the earth returning to its Edenic state, it is necessary that all things of a telestial standard be destroyed. This also indicates the necessities of a gradual fall as opposed to an instant fall. Anything that was conditioned to an Edenic existence had to gradually over generations slowly become more mortal, and more degraded in order for the for the world as a whole to make that transition in a sustainable pattern that permitted the existence of life to continue. Thus in reverse, the only way for the righteous to withstand this transition back to the Edenic existence is for Christ to activate the capacity for the righteous to tolerate the standard of a higher law.

The possibilities of how this might be accomplished are only now being observed by science as a byproduct of the genome project of mapping human DNA. It is now understood that certain gene expression can be turned on and turned off by exposing binding molecules to ultraviolet light:
Triplex-forming oligonucleotides (TFOs) are commonly used molecules that can prevent gene transcription by binding to double-stranded DNA. NC State chemist Dr. Alex Deiters wanted to find a way to more precisely control TFOs, and by extension, the transcription of certain genes. So Deiters attached a light-activated “cage” to a TFO. When exposed to ultraviolet (UV) light, the cage is removed, and the TFO is free to bind with DNA, inhibiting transcription of the gene of interest.

“In the absence of light, transcription activity is 100 percent,” says Deiters. “When we turn on the light, we can take it down to about 25 percent, which is a significant reduction in gene expression.”

Additionally, Deiters fine-tuned the process by attaching a caged inhibitor strand to the TFO. In the absence of UV light, the TFO behaves normally, binding to DNA and preventing gene expression. However, when exposed to UV light, the caged inhibitor activates and stops the TFO from binding with DNA, turning gene transcription on.

“We’ve created a tool that allows for the light-activation of genetic transcription,” Deiters says. “By giving researchers greater temporal and spatial control over gene expression, we’ve expanded their ability to study the behavior of particular genes in whichever environment they choose.”( http://news.ncsu.edu/releases/tp-gene-light/)
This description of genetic transcription26, found in the footnote, is not to describe what will happen when in the presence of the pure light of Christ but simply to illustrate factors that are known that do illustrate how unexpressed genes which may contain myriad capacities seldom observed in fallen man could become expressed in an individual prepared to receive sufficient pure light to activate latent traits. Things such as hyper memory, abilities in language and understanding, greater sensitivity to spiritual talents etc.

Other research has been forth coming which illustrates additional ways in which light cn be used as a direct influence on DNA repair as a result of exposure to photon energy – a photon being one of the cellular components of light
Blue light governs a number of cellular responses in bacteria, plants, and animals, including photoreactivation, plant development, and circadian photoentrainment. These activities are mediated by a family of highly conserved flavoproteins, the photolyase/cryptochrome family. Photolyase binds to UV photoproducts in DNA and repairs them in a process called photoreactivation in which blue light is used to initiate a cyclic electron transfer to break bonds and restore the integrity of DNA. Cryptochrome, which has a high degree of sequence identity to photolyase, works as the main circadian photoreceptor and as a component of the molecular clock in animals, including mammals, and regulates growth and development in plants. (http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v21/n ... 5958a.html)
This type of research is still very much in its infancy, however it potentially illustrates that the concept of the positive potential of light on health and cellular repair. In the day of destruction of the Lords coming, is it not unreasonable that the light of his presence will serve the dual purpose of destroying those that cannot endure it’s presence while preserving those who can be acted upon by the spirit in positive fashion to be raised to a level that is benefited by such light. Further consideration of these and other potentials will be explored as this document proceeds.

This ends this portion of my previous research. I will add that this is the most speculative that I ever get in my studies. IT is based on scriptures and quotes and I believe I have protected the potential trues to be derived from these sources. The scientific material provided is simply to illustrate potentials and in no way is to state to any degree of finality that "this is so". Spiritual sources are so much more consistent and reliable than our current levels of scientific understandings which are always subject to change as we advance in understandings. Hindingbehindmyhandle mentioned Saturn which is something I worked on in this same document years ago. What I found most interesting was placement of Saturn Stones at the top of the Salt Lake Temple which if researched out matches or at least alludes to very ancient mythology about Saturn. .... but that is for a different post, another day.
Footnotes:
26 Transcription is when RNA is made from DNA. The information is copied from one molecule to the other. The DNA sequence is copied by a special enzyme called RNA polymerase to make a matching RNA strand.

"All living things, with their myriad variations, use an almost identical microscopic machine to read their genes. This machine – RNA polymerase – is responsible for a process called transcription, which by producing RNA from DNA, takes the first step in reading the blueprint of life that is encoded in all of our genes".[1]

The matching RNA strand is a 'pre-messenger RNA'. Next, the non-coding introns are stripped out by a spliceosome. The remainingexons are put together to make a messenger RNA.

The product is called messenger RNA (mRNA) because it carries a genetic message from the DNA to the protein-making machinery of the cell. Transcription is the first step that leads to the expression of the genes.

The stretch of DNA that is transcribed into an RNA molecule is called a transcription unit. (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transc ... (genetics))
Last edited by brlenox on September 15th, 2017, 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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brlenox
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by brlenox »

I stopped with the material of my last post at a logical point. However the point made following in my research is a description of the term light as used in the scriptures and what light may be perceived as by the definitions of science. Our tendency is to often consider light as that range of the electromagnetic spectrum of the visual range that illuminates our existence. However the majority of the Electromagnetic range is actually comprised of electromagnetic frequencies that do not illuminate and are dark but can still be detected by our bodies and could provide all manner of influences upon us. The following quotes could be reflective of such potentials:

President Joseph Fielding Smith said, "This Light of Christ is not a personage. It has no body. I do not know what it is as far as substance is concerned; but it fills the immensity of space and emanates from God. It is the light by which the worlds are controlled, by which they are made." Furthermore, it "is impersonal and has no size, nor dimension." It "is the active agency by which the great discoveries in these modern times have been accomplished. It is this Spirit which the Lord declares he will withdraw from the world [D&C 63:32], and which he said to Noah would not always 'strive with man,' and not the Holy Ghost which they never had. [Moses 8:17; Gen. 6:3; D&C 1:33.] It is this Spirit which led Columbus in his discoveries." (DS 1:52-53.) The Light of Christ should not be confused with the Holy Ghost, who is "a personage of Spirit." (D&C 130:22.) However, "the person of the Holy Ghost can work through the Spirit of Christ that permeates everything, or he can work by personal contacts" (DS 1:54).(Hoyt W. Brewster, Jr., Doctrine and Covenants Encyclopedia 1988], 324.)
The means through which the Holy Ghost operates are no more truly the Holy Ghost in person than the light and heat and actinic energy of the sun are the sun itself. The influence, spirit, or power of the Holy Ghost is that of enlightenment and progression, and this is given unto men in proportion to their receptiveness and worthiness; but the right to the special ministrations of the third member of the Godhead is obtainable only through compliance with the preliminary requirements of the Gospel—faith, repentance, and baptism. The terms "Spirit" and "Ghost" occur in the scriptures frequently without differentiation. The Holy Ghost is an individual personage, the third member of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit, in a distinctive sense, is the "divine essence" by means of which the Godhead operates upon man and in nature.(James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1981], 439.)

Spaced_Out
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by Spaced_Out »

The sun is a celestial planet so how can it be affected. Also all the plannets, stars etc were placed in their orbit by the God's for the benefit of the earth - the earth does not influence the sun the sun influences the earth and is a governing star to the earth - what a crazy notion that the sun was changed.....

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brlenox
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

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Spaced_Out wrote: September 15th, 2017, 4:59 pm The sun is a celestial planet so how can it be affected. Also all the plannets, stars etc were placed in their orbit by the God's for the benefit of the earth - the earth does not influence the sun the sun influences the earth and is a governing star to the earth - what a crazy notion that the sun was changed.....
It just depends on what one means by affected. Did it change location. Did it get an upset tummy and get a little gassy? ...

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

brlenox wrote: September 15th, 2017, 4:05 pm I stopped with the material of my last post at a logical point. However the point made following in my research is a description of the term light as used in the scriptures and what light may be perceived as by the definitions of science. Our tendency is to often consider light as that range of the electromagnetic spectrum of the visual range that illuminates our existence. However the majority of the Electromagnetic range is actually comprised of electromagnetic frequencies that do not illuminate and are dark but can still be detected by our bodies and could provide all manner of influences upon us. The following quotes could be reflective of such potentials:
Here is some stuff that supports many of your assertions. :mrgreen:
BeNotDeceived wrote: September 13th, 2017, 5:48 pm
email: Topic reply notification wrote:You are receiving this notification ... This topic has received a reply by Ezra
... When Xiaobo Yin, a materials scientist at the University of Colorado in Boulder, saw Fan’s paper, he noticed the material worked in part by encouraging infrared photons to bounce back and forth between the layers of the film in a manner that made it a stronger IR emitter. Yin wondered whether there was a simpler way to do this. From previous work, Yin knew that spherical objects can act like tiny resonance chambers—much as the sound box of a guitar encourages sound waves of a particular frequency to bounce back and forth inside. He and his colleagues calculated that glass beads about 8 micrometers in diameter—little bigger than a red blood cell—would make powerful IR resonators and thus strong IR emitters.

So they bought a batch of glass powder from a commercial supplier and mixed it with ... sciencemag.org: plastic film cools whatever it touches up to 10°C

Essentially, energy is converted into a wavelength that radiates into space, as though the atmosphere wasn't there. Image
Stuff that passes though solid material, as though it wasn't there.

"Beam me up Scotty", or skip opening the door to enter a room, sounds familiar.

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brlenox
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by brlenox »

JohnnyL wrote: September 13th, 2017, 2:02 pm According to Mormon belief, the earth was not created "here", but somewhere else.

After the Fall, it fell to here.

Did anything else fall?

Of course, MSS will tell you a planet moving from one solar system to another is impossible.

Would earth's creation be different, in a different environment?

What effects would the Fall have on the earth?
I do not recognize MSS, so I am not sure what that refers to, however, in recent years the idea that planets can move between solar systems is widely accepted in Astronomic circles. Please consider:
Last November astronomer David Nesvorny of the Southwest Research Institute in Colorado … proposed that a fifth gas giant emerged from the planet-birthing cloud 4.5 billion years ago. Suddenly his simulations started matching reality. The outer planets still jockeyed for position, but this time Jupiter spared Uranus and Neptune and ejected the extra planet instead. The loss of the extra world also shifted the orbits of the surviving planets. Jupiter darted toward the sun, while Uranus and Neptune got shoved farther away to the positions they have today. Nesvorny’s study in The Astrophysical Journal Letters came out just as other scientists announced that our galaxy may contain hundreds of billions of rogue planets floating aimlessly through interstellar space. If Nesvorny is correct, one of them may be our long-lost neighbor. (http://discovermagazine.com/2012/may/09 ... ost-planet)
Additionally:
Seven years ago, astronomers boggled when they found the first runaway star flying out of our galaxy at a speed of 1.5 million miles per hour. The discovery intrigued theorists, who wondered: If a star can get tossed outward at such an extreme velocity, could the same thing happen to planets?

New research shows that the answer is yes. Not only do runaway planets exist, but some of them zoom through space at a few percent of the speed of light -- up to 30 million miles per hour.

"These warp-speed planets would be some of the fastest objects in our galaxy. If you lived on one of them, you'd be in for a wild ride from the center of the galaxy to the Universe at large," said astrophysicist Avi Loeb of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.

"Other than subatomic particles, I don't know of anything leaving our galaxy as fast as these runaway planets," added lead author Idan Ginsburg of Dartmouth College. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 113604.htm)

Still it may not be limited to siblings, as it appears something akin to adoption might also be taking place in galaxies throughout the universe:

New research suggests that billions of stars in our galaxy have captured rogue planets that once roamed interstellar space. The nomad worlds, which were kicked out of the star systems in which they formed, occasionally find a new home with a different sun. This finding could explain the existence of some planets that orbit surprisingly far from their stars, and even the existence of a double-planet system. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 113652.htm)
And one more for good measure:
Now, Vanderbilt astronomers report in the May issue of the Astronomical Journal that they have identified a group of more than 675 stars on the outskirts of the Milky Way that they argue are hypervelocity stars that have been ejected from the galactic core. They selected these stars based on their location in intergalactic space between the Milky Way and the nearby Andromeda galaxy and by their peculiar red coloration.

"These stars really stand out. They are red giant stars with high metallicity which gives them an unusual color," says Assistant Professor Kelly Holley-Bockelmann, who conducted the study with graduate student Lauren Palladino. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 140033.htm)
Of course this is current findings and we can be sure that this is only partial understandings but again it points to possibilities that science has only admitted to in the past decade or so. However, those who have taken the counsel of prophets and had faith in their revelations have known for almost 200 years what God revealed to Joseph Smith concerning the fall and the relocation of anything from perhaps a single earth to perhaps an entire solar system. These seemingly limited admissions that science has barely touched upon is only a precursor to the grander things of creation as revealed to the servants of God.

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brlenox
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by brlenox »

BeNotDeceived wrote: September 15th, 2017, 8:05 pm
brlenox wrote: September 15th, 2017, 4:05 pm I stopped with the material of my last post at a logical point. However the point made following in my research is a description of the term light as used in the scriptures and what light may be perceived as by the definitions of science. Our tendency is to often consider light as that range of the electromagnetic spectrum of the visual range that illuminates our existence. However the majority of the Electromagnetic range is actually comprised of electromagnetic frequencies that do not illuminate and are dark but can still be detected by our bodies and could provide all manner of influences upon us. The following quotes could be reflective of such potentials:
Here is some stuff that supports many of your assertions. :mrgreen:
BeNotDeceived wrote: September 13th, 2017, 5:48 pm
email: Topic reply notification wrote:You are receiving this notification ... This topic has received a reply by Ezra
... When Xiaobo Yin, a materials scientist at the University of Colorado in Boulder, saw Fan’s paper, he noticed the material worked in part by encouraging infrared photons to bounce back and forth between the layers of the film in a manner that made it a stronger IR emitter. Yin wondered whether there was a simpler way to do this. From previous work, Yin knew that spherical objects can act like tiny resonance chambers—much as the sound box of a guitar encourages sound waves of a particular frequency to bounce back and forth inside. He and his colleagues calculated that glass beads about 8 micrometers in diameter—little bigger than a red blood cell—would make powerful IR resonators and thus strong IR emitters.

So they bought a batch of glass powder from a commercial supplier and mixed it with ... sciencemag.org: plastic film cools whatever it touches up to 10°C

Essentially, energy is converted into a wavelength that radiates into space, as though the atmosphere wasn't there. Image
Stuff that passes though solid material, as though it wasn't there.

"Beam me up Scotty", or skip opening the door to enter a room, sounds familiar.
Your link was a gem and had one paragraph that I found most interesting. Some of the ancient mythology surrounding the dog star, or Saturn as it is commonly known, alludes to the possibility that Saturn may have functioned in a light giving fashion eons ago. As we consider possibilities, only possibilities, I have wondered if indeed being part of a dual star system may have been a contributing factor in the difference between a terestrial state and a telestial state. Again, this is only speculation and certainly not an adamant declaration of veracity, but such a state would allow for potentially a different quality and intensity of light and its components to influence conditions on any planet that found itself in orbital proximity to multiple sources of light. The paragraph from your article that lends perhaps a modicum of credence to my thoughts is this one:

Scientists are not yet ready to settle the long debate over the rings’ age; a definitive statement on whether they’re 100 million or billions of years old could come later this year. But the finale has already made clear that the interior and exterior of Saturn rotate at different rates, with a significant difference in speeds, Iess says. A similar pattern is seen in the sun, but NASA’s Juno spacecraft, now orbiting Jupiter, has found only a marginal difference in rotation in its gas giant. Something more complex is going on at Saturn, adds Jonathan Fortney, a planetary scientist at the University of California, Santa Cruz; it appears one template does not govern gas giants. “Saturn is not a small version of Jupiter,” he says. “The planets are distinct and unique.” (After a dive into Saturn, Cassini spacecraft melts into history By Paul Voosen, Sep. 15, 2017 , 8:30 AM (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09 ... ts-history)

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LukeAir2008
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

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Why don't we just accept what the Prophets have said? JD 17. Or do modern mormons just make up their own doctrine? The fall of Man and of the earth took place near to the throne of God which is a Celestial area. The earth had to be removed after the fall and was relocated to this part of the universe which is a lower level, inferior area with a far inferior star which is our sun.

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brlenox
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

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Is anyone saying different? or to whom are you responding?

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BeNotDeceived
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Stars differs in glory, but only one star is our sun.

Post by BeNotDeceived »

LukeAir2008 wrote: September 16th, 2017, 11:22 pm Why don't we just accept what the Prophets have said? JD 17. Or do modern mormons just make up their own doctrine? The fall of Man and of the earth took place near to the throne of God which is a Celestial area. The earth had to be removed after the fall and was relocated to this part of the universe which is a lower level, inferior area with a far inferior star which is our sun.
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-18?lang=eng wrote: Paul says, ‘There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So is also the resurrection of the dead.
Stars differs in glory, but only one star is our sun. Perhaps this is like the idea, that there are many fathers, but only one father is yours. Because he is your father, he is special to you. But to everyone else, he's just one of many fathers. The sun, being our star, means it has special significance to us.

Please quote authoritative sources, that say the Sun and/or Earth was removed, when man fell. :?:

Everything in the universe can be observed to be in motion, so merely moving through space, may have no meaningful effect.

Flatland is a book written long ago that is both entertaining and enlightening about dimensional perspectives. String Theory postulates eleven dimensions to truly boggle the mind.

Image
The Big Dipper Bowl is devolving from a Square to that of a Mere Triangle. Image

Image

The world may never know. :mrgreen: Until such day, that it is made new again.

My reason for wanting to know, goes back to, acting vs being acted upon, as it relates to "and subdue it" and the idea, that we are to be stewards of the Earth. Nowhere did I find anything, that says that we to do likewise for the sun. This has bearings on the recent solar flares, and the accumulating evidence that when the flares, the Earth quakes.

There is a lot of information to review. Much thanks to all that contributed, and to those, that may yet contribute.

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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

brlenox wrote: September 15th, 2017, 4:05 pm I stopped with the material of my last post at a logical point. However the point made following in my research is a description of the term light as used in the scriptures and what light may be perceived as by the definitions of science. Our tendency is to often consider light as that range of the electromagnetic spectrum of the visual range that illuminates our existence. However the majority of the Electromagnetic range is actually comprised of electromagnetic frequencies that do not illuminate and are dark but can still be detected by our bodies and could provide all manner of influences upon us. The following quotes could be reflective of such potentials:

President Joseph Fielding Smith said, "This Light of Christ is not a personage. It has no body. I do not know what it is as far as substance is concerned; but it fills the immensity of space and emanates from God. It is the light by which the worlds are controlled, by which they are made." Furthermore, it "is impersonal and has no size, nor dimension." It "is the active agency by which the great discoveries in these modern times have been accomplished. It is this Spirit which the Lord declares he will withdraw from the world [D&C 63:32], and which he said to Noah would not always 'strive with man,' and not the Holy Ghost which they never had. [Moses 8:17; Gen. 6:3; D&C 1:33.] It is this Spirit which led Columbus in his discoveries." (DS 1:52-53.) The Light of Christ should not be confused with the Holy Ghost, who is "a personage of Spirit." (D&C 130:22.) However, "the person of the Holy Ghost can work through the Spirit of Christ that permeates everything, or he can work by personal contacts" (DS 1:54).(Hoyt W. Brewster, Jr., Doctrine and Covenants Encyclopedia 1988], 324.)
The means through which the Holy Ghost operates are no more truly the Holy Ghost in person than the light and heat and actinic energy of the sun are the sun itself. The influence, spirit, or power of the Holy Ghost is that of enlightenment and progression, and this is given unto men in proportion to their receptiveness and worthiness; but the right to the special ministrations of the third member of the Godhead is obtainable only through compliance with the preliminary requirements of the Gospel—faith, repentance, and baptism. The terms "Spirit" and "Ghost" occur in the scriptures frequently without differentiation. The Holy Ghost is an individual personage, the third member of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit, in a distinctive sense, is the "divine essence" by means of which the Godhead operates upon man and in nature.(James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1981], 439.)
So true, this thing about light. :)

Light of a particular wavelength cured occasional pain and paralysis of my left hand. I simply shine the 300 Watt light on my wrist and forearm whenever symptoms flair. Dr. Mercola turned me on to the idea.

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Luke
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by Luke »

Brigham said that the sun was a celestial kingdom and that this earth would be a sun to another world when celestialised

justme
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Re: Stars differs in glory, but only one star is our sun.

Post by justme »

BeNotDeceived wrote: September 17th, 2017, 1:14 am
LukeAir2008 wrote: September 16th, 2017, 11:22 pm Why don't we just accept what the Prophets have said? JD 17. Or do modern mormons just make up their own doctrine? The fall of Man and of the earth took place near to the throne of God which is a Celestial area. The earth had to be removed after the fall and was relocated to this part of the universe which is a lower level, inferior area with a far inferior star which is our sun.
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-18?lang=eng wrote: Paul says, ‘There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So is also the resurrection of the dead.
Stars differs in glory, but only one star is our sun. Perhaps this is like the idea, that there are many fathers, but only one father is yours. Because he is your father, he is special to you. But to everyone else, he's just one of many fathers. The sun, being our star, means it has special significance to us.

Please quote authoritative sources, that say the Sun and/or Earth was removed, when man fell. :?:

Everything in the universe can be observed to be in motion, so merely moving through space, may have no meaningful effect.

Flatland is a book written long ago that is both entertaining and enlightening about dimensional perspectives. String Theory postulates eleven dimensions to truly boggle the mind.

Image
The Big Dipper Bowl is devolving from a Square to that of a Mere Triangle. Image

Image

The world may never know. :mrgreen: Until such day, that it is made new again.

My reason for wanting to know, goes back to, acting vs being acted upon, as it relates to "and subdue it" and the idea, that we are to be stewards of the Earth. Nowhere did I find anything, that says that we to do likewise for the sun. This has bearings on the recent solar flares, and the accumulating evidence that when the flares, the Earth quakes.

There is a lot of information to review. Much thanks to all that contributed, and to those, that may yet contribute.
This is all very interesting, but it needs more COWBELL

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Does the Universe Have an Edge Documentary - Universe Expanding Faster Than We Thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s99M_Q94ueM

Currently showing stuff about sun spots, but it's a live Youtube. The time is relative to now and goes back 12 hours. Is it possible to replay it, when it's over :?:

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BeNotDeceived
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only one star is our sun.

Post by BeNotDeceived »

justme wrote: June 4th, 2020, 10:08 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: September 17th, 2017, 1:14 am
LukeAir2008 wrote: September 16th, 2017, 11:22 pm Why don't we just accept what the Prophets have said? JD 17. Or do modern mormons just make up their own doctrine? The fall of Man and of the earth took place near to the throne of God which is a Celestial area. The earth had to be removed after the fall and was relocated to this part of the universe which is a lower level, inferior area with a far inferior star which is our sun.
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-18?lang=eng wrote: Paul says, ‘There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So is also the resurrection of the dead.
Stars differs in glory, but only one star is our sun. Perhaps this is like the idea, that there are many fathers, but only one father is yours. Because he is your father, he is special to you. But to everyone else, he's just one of many fathers. The sun, being our star, means it has special significance to us.

Please quote authoritative sources, that say the Sun and/or Earth was removed, when man fell. :?:

Everything in the universe can be observed to be in motion, so merely moving through space, may have no meaningful effect.

Flatland is a book written long ago that is both entertaining and enlightening about dimensional perspectives. String Theory postulates eleven dimensions to truly boggle the mind.

Image
The Big Dipper Bowl is devolving from a Square to that of a Mere Triangle. Image

Image

The world may never know. :mrgreen: Until such day, that it is made new again.

My reason for wanting to know, goes back to, acting vs being acted upon, as it relates to "and subdue it" and the idea, that we are to be stewards of the Earth. Nowhere did I find anything, that says that we to do likewise for the sun. This has bearings on the recent solar flares, and the accumulating evidence that when the flares, the Earth quakes.

There is a lot of information to review. Much thanks to all that contributed, and to those, that may yet contribute.
This is all very interesting, but it needs more COWBELL

Sorry, fresh out of cowbell. :lol:
Image

There’s a fresh dipper animation though.

Does the North Star move very much?

Drat: the animation won’t animate. :?

Thy this: http://www.phy.olemiss.edu/~perera/anim ... pmn_um.gif

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by MikeMaillet »

This is one of the most interesting discussions. The astronomy stuff in the scriptures had me confused until I started thinking of the sun, moon and stars as classes of angels rather than celestial spheres. In the Book of Enoch it becomes more apparent that orbits and years refer to the paths that angels take as they descend and ascend through various portals as part of their eternal progression.

In The Ascension of Isaiah we read about Isaiah ascending through the various heavens, or degrees of glory. This is very interesting reading.

The Book of Enoch speaks of four winds that suspend our heaven. Are these four winds the four fundamental forces that we know as the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, magnetism and electricity? Gravity is not a force.

Mike

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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

MikeMaillet wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 1:13 pm This is one of the most interesting discussions. The astronomy stuff in the scriptures had me confused until I started thinking of the sun, moon and stars as classes of angels rather than celestial spheres. In the Book of Enoch it becomes more apparent that orbits and years refer to the paths that angels take as they descend and ascend through various portals as part of their eternal progression.

In The Ascension of Isaiah we read about Isaiah ascending through the various heavens, or degrees of glory. This is very interesting reading.

The Book of Enoch speaks of four winds that suspend our heaven. Are these four winds the four fundamental forces that we know as the strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, magnetism and electricity? Gravity is not a force.

Mike
Gravity is an acceleration as can be seen by the equation:

F = MA

F is the force of your weight = your mass times gravity’s acceleration.

A unit of acceleration is meters per second squared.

g = 9.8 meters per second squared at sea level.

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FrankOne
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Re: Was the SUN affected, by the Fall of Man?

Post by FrankOne »

Here is a theory from the far side:

The sun is an inter-dimensional Aether reactor. It pulls in Aether, which is the life giving substance of the temporal world, and mixes it with light. The light carries the life force within it and this is how vegetation grows which in turn gives life to insects, animals etc and human bodies. It feeds this illusion.

There is light within the light.

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