LDS Freedom Forum

Only the doctrine of Christ can save people, but prayer from others can be a way to soften hearts (we see both in the case of Alma the Younger).
How do you feel in regards to Mike Norton? Oftentimes the greater change comes to the person offering the prayer: an increase of love and mercy to them and all people. I can't see into his heart or yours, so I can't really say how effective it was, but you could answer part of it. I can say that it is definitely possible, and that given the low cost of prayer, worth an attempt.

We are commanded to pray for our enemies so I think this is a good thing.

Agency also, plays a part so God can answer those prayers to a specific point but it will be up to him in the end if he wants to change.

Does this mean we can remove the "I am leaving this site forever" thread you started a week or so ago? As the old saying goes "people can leave the LDSFF but they cant leave it alone..." =))

Isn't Mike Norton behind the channel newnamenoah? It doesn't hurt to pray and have some hope for the guy, but I doubt we'll see any change on his part. I believe his story is that he was previously excommunicated/resigned and was then rebaptized in order to gain access to the temple for his videos. I wouldn't be surprised if his being open about his identity will be his downfall: it's only a matter of time before a member who knows him finds his activities and reports him.

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Mark wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 4:46 pm Does this mean we can remove the "I am leaving this site forever" thread you started a week or so ago? As the old saying goes "people can leave the LDSFF but they cant leave it alone..." =))

This place is just too addictive.

You fail at Flounce. =))

Mark wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 4:46 pm Does this mean we can remove the "I am leaving this site forever" thread you started a week or so ago? As the old saying goes "people can leave the LDSFF but they cant leave it alone..." =))

From the other thread ... I guess now Meili is a prophetess:

Meili wrote: ↑September 5th, 2017, 2:45 am
I'd bet money that CelestialAngel will come back to check this thread and I wouldn't be surprised to see her/him return in the future. It's happened so many times with so many people....

I guess she'll be starting her own church now or at least do a book tour...

The whole world cannot be individually on the prayer list, and there are many more worthy who could be. It is despicable what he has done and is probably still doing.

brlenox wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 10:28 pm

Mark wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 4:46 pm Does this mean we can remove the "I am leaving this site forever" thread you started a week or so ago? As the old saying goes "people can leave the LDSFF but they cant leave it alone..." =))

From the other thread ... I guess now Meili is a prophetess:

Meili wrote: ↑September 5th, 2017, 2:45 am
I'd bet money that CelestialAngel will come back to check this thread and I wouldn't be surprised to see her/him return in the future. It's happened so many times with so many people....

I guess she'll be starting her own church now or at least do a book tour...

=))

It's been long established that I'm a prophetess. What is being established now is what kind of prophetess..... True/false.....

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 3:46 pm I've talked to him several times before. This is the guy that uses false identity to attend church and have a active temple recommend and he's the one that video recorded the temple ceremonies and keeps putting them on youtube. The reason I put his name on the prayer roll is because I fear for his soul because of what he's done and I want to see if any temple prayers can save him and change his attitude because he could possibly be sick in the head and it says to put sick or otherwise afflicted on the prayer roll. Is this a pointless cause I did or a good gesture of faith and hope for an Alma the Younger change in person?

It's always a good idea to pray for your enemies. I recommend doing that more than praying for others. There is so much more to gain by it, particularly understanding and forgiveness. It does the whole world good.

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 3:46 pm I've talked to him several times before. This is the guy that uses false identity to attend church and have a active temple recommend and he's the one that video recorded the temple ceremonies and keeps putting them on youtube. The reason I put his name on the prayer roll is because I fear for his soul because of what he's done and I want to see if any temple prayers can save him and change his attitude because he could possibly be sick in the head and it says to put sick or otherwise afflicted on the prayer roll. Is this a pointless cause I did or a good gesture of faith and hope for an Alma the Younger change in person?

He is sick in the head. He’s going to the Telestial Kingdom until he repents. Food job for doing this!

Why don't you just command him by his new name, which is, obviously, Noah, to be good, from hence forth forward? They theory goes that we're going to have power to raise people from the dead via their new names. That's why us guys get our spouses' in the temple Sealing. Doesn't make sense why us guys get one, but tell nobody else, if its only use is for someone else to raise us from the dead.
If you don't believe the new name has that kind of power, why not dust your feet off against the guy? Again, doing it against his new name? That should set him straight. There are oodles of missionary stories where they heard about some area getting feet dusted off against it and the whole place got near Moses level plagues slamming the whole place. Strike the guy dumb of something. It worked for Alma against Korihor.

FTC wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 8:27 am Why don't you just command him by his new name, which is, obviously, Noah, to be good, from hence forth forward? They theory goes that we're going to have power to raise people from the dead via their new names. That's why us guys get our spouses' in the temple Sealing. Doesn't make sense why us guys get one, if its only use is for someone else to raise us from the dead.
If you don't believe the new name has that kind of power, why not dust your feet off against the guy? Again, doing it against his new name? That should set him straight. There are oodles of missionary stories where they heard about some area getting feet dusted off against it and the whole place got near Moses level plagues slamming the whole place. Strike the guy dumb of something. It worked for Alma against Korihor.

Alma was in the same room with him.

Sasquatch wrote: ↑September 7th, 2017, 7:15 pm Isn't Mike Norton behind the channel newnamenoah?

Yep, same guy.

Meili wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 8:30 am

FTC wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 8:27 am Why don't you just command him by his new name, which is, obviously, Noah, to be good, from hence forth forward? They theory goes that we're going to have power to raise people from the dead via their new names. That's why us guys get our spouses' in the temple Sealing. Doesn't make sense why us guys get one, if its only use is for someone else to raise us from the dead.
If you don't believe the new name has that kind of power, why not dust your feet off against the guy? Again, doing it against his new name? That should set him straight. There are oodles of missionary stories where they heard about some area getting feet dusted off against it and the whole place got near Moses level plagues slamming the whole place. Strike the guy dumb of something. It worked for Alma against Korihor.

Alma was in the same room with him.

You aren't. Nor is CelestialAngel . Nor are the missionaries. Send them over to his place, then let him have it! X_X

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:00 am The whole world cannot be individually on the prayer list, and there are many more worthy who could be. It is despicable what he has done and is probably still doing.

Couldn't you make the same argument about any other name submitted to the prayer roll?

No. In fact why has not "CelestialAngel" reported him so that his ruse can be uncovered and Temple Recommend cancelled, instead of aiding and abetting his immoral illegal activities and making a mockery of the Temple prayer roll.

captainfearnot wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:25 am

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:00 am The whole world cannot be individually on the prayer list, and there are many more worthy who could be. It is despicable what he has done and is probably still doing.

Couldn't you make the same argument about any other name submitted to the prayer roll?

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:59 am No. In fact why has not "CelestialAngel" reported him so that his ruse can be uncovered and Temple Recommend cancelled, instead of aiding and abetting his immoral illegal activities and making a mockery of the Temple prayer roll.

Interesting. I wonder if you apply the same logic to all the other work going on in temples, involving the submission of names. After all, there's a finite amount of work that can be done for the dead, right? Shouldn't we restrict it to the worthiest ones? Or would you happily be baptized for Mike Norton after he's dead, you just wouldn't pray for him while he's alive?

The fact is, there is absolutely no criteria or restriction on names that can be submitted to the temple prayer roll. You seem to be attempting to fabricate one in order to justify your revulsion toward the idea prayers being offered on behalf of someone you find reprehensible, so now it's on you to justify it.

So what is that criteria, exactly? Where do we draw the line?

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:40 pm

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:59 am No. In fact why has not "CelestialAngel" reported him so that his ruse can be uncovered and Temple Recommend cancelled, instead of aiding and abetting his immoral illegal activities and making a mockery of the Temple prayer roll.

captainfearnot wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:25 am

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:00 am The whole world cannot be individually on the prayer list, and there are many more worthy who could be. It is despicable what he has done and is probably still doing.

Couldn't you make the same argument about any other name submitted to the prayer roll?

The temple knows about the name MIke Norton but the problem is Mr Norton uses a fake identity and uses a temple recommend with a different name than his and I don't know how to take the recommend from him nor do I know what the recommend name he has is. Otherwise I would have reported it a long time ago.

How do you know Mike?

OK... take a photo of him which can be circulated to Stake Presidents and to Temple workers.

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:40 pm

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:59 am No. In fact why has not "CelestialAngel" reported him so that his ruse can be uncovered and Temple Recommend cancelled, instead of aiding and abetting his immoral illegal activities and making a mockery of the Temple prayer roll.

captainfearnot wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:25 am

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:00 am The whole world cannot be individually on the prayer list, and there are many more worthy who could be. It is despicable what he has done and is probably still doing.

Couldn't you make the same argument about any other name submitted to the prayer roll?

The temple knows about the name MIke Norton but the problem is Mr Norton uses a fake identity and uses a temple recommend with a different name than his and I don't know how to take the recommend from him nor do I know what the recommend name he has is. Otherwise I would have reported it a long time ago.

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 1:56 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 1:14 pm

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:40 pm

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:59 am No. In fact why has not "CelestialAngel" reported him so that his ruse can be uncovered and Temple Recommend cancelled, instead of aiding and abetting his immoral illegal activities and making a mockery of the Temple prayer roll.

The temple knows about the name MIke Norton but the problem is Mr Norton uses a fake identity and uses a temple recommend with a different name than his and I don't know how to take the recommend from him nor do I know what the recommend name he has is. Otherwise I would have reported it a long time ago.

How do you know Mike?

I'd rather keep that information confidential.

Well, "confidentially" he used to be my neighbor. Moved a few years back but definitely an interesting, attention seeking, not the norm sort of folk.

Well bless your heart. I appreciate the kind geture. Coincidentally I received a pay raise today which allowed me to purchase a new pinhole camera I've had my eye on for a while.

If you really want to help, please call me and let's discuss the doctrinal and historicity concerns that caused me to leave the LDS Church in the first place.

(801) 971-8661

Sincerely,
Mike Norton

brlenox wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 2:07 pm

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 1:56 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 1:14 pm

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:40 pm

The temple knows about the name MIke Norton but the problem is Mr Norton uses a fake identity and uses a temple recommend with a different name than his and I don't know how to take the recommend from him nor do I know what the recommend name he has is. Otherwise I would have reported it a long time ago.

How do you know Mike?

I'd rather keep that information confidential.

Well, "confidentially" he used to be my neighbor. Moved a few years back but definitely an interesting, attention seeking, not the norm sort of folk.

An Image of his latest publications:

http://imgur.com/R0r5BxN

and another shot:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... n_couldve/

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:40 pm

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:59 am No. In fact why has not "CelestialAngel" reported him so that his ruse can be uncovered and Temple Recommend cancelled, instead of aiding and abetting his immoral illegal activities and making a mockery of the Temple prayer roll.

captainfearnot wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 10:25 am

Elizabeth wrote: ↑September 8th, 2017, 12:00 am The whole world cannot be individually on the prayer list, and there are many more worthy who could be. It is despicable what he has done and is probably still doing.

Couldn't you make the same argument about any other name submitted to the prayer roll?

The temple knows about the name MIke Norton but the problem is Mr Norton uses a fake identity and uses a temple recommend with a different name than his and I don't know how to take the recommend from him nor do I know what the recommend name he has is. Otherwise I would have reported it a long time ago.

So, you must know him pretty well then if you know all these things about how he does it and you claim you can't take his recommend away.


A couple of years ago, I found his pic on the internet and gave it to the temple I usually attend, I was pleased to find that someone else had already given it to them, not you, I guess, since you apparently have never reported him.
If you really want to help him, putting his name on the prayer roll isn't at the top of the list, IMO.

I think it would be rad if someone autoput his name on all the rolls in all the temples so that way, when he sneaks into the temple, if he goes in the prayer circle, he ends up praying for himself...

Guys, the problem isn't that Mike's identity isn't known to the church. His personal info is all over the internet. They know exactly who he is.

The problem is that temple security isn't really set up to keep people out. They aren't going to post mugshots of people known to use fake recommends, like a bodega banning check bouncers.

The church doesn't really care about keeping people out that badly, and it doesn't care about keeping its sacred rites secret. That's why you've been able to access all temple content on the Internet pretty much since its inception. As long as he doesn't cause a scene while he's there, it's not really worth the effort to try and keep him out.

The church knows how to keep a secret when it wants to. That's why nobody knows about its finances. And I can guarantee someone like Mike Norton isn't getting access to Vault F.

By the way, the bar codes on temple recommends weren't intended as a security measure. While they do make them harder to fake (and allow deactivation) the main purpose is to track attendance.