Social Security Recipients, Increase?

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freedomforall
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Social Security Recipients, Increase?

Post by freedomforall »

https://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factshee ... ts2017.pdf

JUST IN Trump Announces Social Security Recipients Will Now Receive THIS Amount Monthly


What say ye ??
Last edited by freedomforall on August 28th, 2017, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ezra
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Ezra »

I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.

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AI2.0
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by AI2.0 »

Do I have to watch the video to find out how much the increase is?

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gclayjr
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by gclayjr »

Ezra,
I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.
Which part. Following the law and paying the taxes. Or following the law and receiving the benefit from those taxes you paid?

Do you just follow the laws you agree with and break the others?

or Do you do things even more dishonest and deceptive in order to "avoid" a paying taxes you don't like?


Regards,

George Clay

Ezra
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Ezra »

gclayjr wrote: August 27th, 2017, 2:49 pm Ezra,
I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.
Which part. Following the law and paying the taxes. Or following the law and receiving the benefit from those taxes you paid?

Do you just follow the laws you agree with and break the others?

or Do you do things even more dishonest and deceptive in order to "avoid" a paying taxes you don't like?


Regards,

George Clay
Partaking in government theft of others to give money to you. That's sin. Doesn't matter if it's the law is to have your income/property stolen from you by the government. Voted into law by others. It becomes sin when you partake in the spoils of that theft. You can justify partaking in that theft all you want label it however makes you feel good. But it is what it is. Just because your money was stolen doesn't make it right to steal someone else money in return.

D&c 98 specifically states to only follow the laws that are constitutional. So yes I follow the laws that are constitutional and I don't follow laws that are unconstitutional if I can. Which is exactly what d&c tell us to do.

For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation. It's legal yet I have withdrawn my support of socialism by doing so. I have no debt own my own property. Grow my own food. Will produce my own power soon and so am able to put what money I make into saving to provide my own retirement, healthcare, education for my children and so on. Anyone can do the same if they choose too.

So I'm not just talking the talk. I have a nice solid rock foundation that I stand on.

We have been told by our prophets and scripture to fight against and not support socialism or its programs. To awake to that awful situation.

It's foolish to partake in government theft just because they stole from you or are stealing from you. The lord will bless you if you choose to repent and turn away from partaking of the theft of others.

Crackers
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Crackers »

Ezra,

I see your concern. SS is a benefit I don't begrudge (too much), however, since theoretically, it is your exact money, dollar for dollar (except more like dollar for cents), being returned to you. (Isn't it? I am not a govt benefit expert, lol). In that case, it would be hard for me to feel bad about getting my money returned to me. I get that in practice, due to missmanagment and corruption, it has to be taken from someone else. But it is hard to justify withholding our older citizens of their money. We should probably pay it out of our congressmen's pensions and salaries. Would you be okay with that (hahaha)?

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gclayjr
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by gclayjr »

Ezra,
For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation
You must pay SS or self employment tax on the first dollar you earn. It is arrogantly self serving for YOU to determine which laws you are going to follow and which ones you won't

12 th article of Faith:
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
While we believe that the Constitution is divinely inspired, there is nothing that says we should only obey laws that we believe to be constitutional

Regards,

George Clay

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shadow
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by shadow »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:12 pm

For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation. It's legal yet I have withdrawn my support of socialism by doing so. I have no debt own my own property. Grow my own food. Will produce my own power soon and so am able to put what money I make into saving to provide my own retirement, healthcare, education for my children and so on. Anyone can do the same if they choose too.

So I'm not just talking the talk. I have a nice solid rock foundation that I stand on.

We have been told by our prophets and scripture to fight against and not support socialism or its programs. To awake to that awful situation.

It's foolish to partake in government theft just because they stole from you or are stealing from you. The lord will bless you if you choose to repent and turn away from partaking of the theft of others.
Don't you work for a company? I thought you worked as some sort of troubled boy counselor.
If you get a wage, even self employed, then you pay into social security. It doesn't matter if it's a small wage, ss taxes apply from Dollar #1. If you make one dollar, roughly 7.5% is owed to social security (the hidden tax is that your employer also pays 7.5% on your behalf). If self employed, it's 15%. If self employed and you don't pay it, the IRS will hunt you down and take your property and sell it in order for you to pay that tax.

Ezra
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Ezra »

shadow wrote: August 27th, 2017, 9:54 pm
Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:12 pm

For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation. It's legal yet I have withdrawn my support of socialism by doing so. I have no debt own my own property. Grow my own food. Will produce my own power soon and so am able to put what money I make into saving to provide my own retirement, healthcare, education for my children and so on. Anyone can do the same if they choose too.

So I'm not just talking the talk. I have a nice solid rock foundation that I stand on.

We have been told by our prophets and scripture to fight against and not support socialism or its programs. To awake to that awful situation.

It's foolish to partake in government theft just because they stole from you or are stealing from you. The lord will bless you if you choose to repent and turn away from partaking of the theft of others.
Don't you work for a company? I thought you worked as some sort of troubled boy counselor.
If you get a wage, even self employed, then you pay into social security. It doesn't matter if it's a small wage, ss taxes apply from Dollar #1. If you make one dollar, roughly 7.5% is owed to social security (the hidden tax is that your employer also pays 7.5% on your behalf). If self employed, it's 15%. If self employed and you don't pay it, the IRS will hunt you down and take your property and sell it in order for you to pay that tax.
I do work part time for the wilderness program when I feel like it and farm on my property. But claim exempt on w2 For the wilderness program. I get a tax return every year. So even though some money goes to the government i get it all back. If I get back extra I give it to the church or charities.

The IRS cannot seize what I don't own. Trusts are awesome that way. All assets are put in trust. Except vehicles which the trust has a Lein on for 3 times their value.
The trust has its own bank accounts which I have access. I have bank accounts which I keep almost no money. So on paper I'm dirt poor with nothing to take or would make money with the attempt to take it.

I have a awesome cpa who is a ex IRS agent.

Ezra
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Ezra »

gclayjr wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:49 pm Ezra,
For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation
You must pay SS or self employment tax on the first dollar you earn. It is arrogantly self serving for YOU to determine which laws you are going to follow and which ones you won't

12 th article of Faith:
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
While we believe that the Constitution is divinely inspired, there is nothing that says we should only obey laws that we believe to be constitutional

Regards,

George Clay
While the constitution doesn't the scriptures do.


Arrogant and self serving???

Why do you keep trying to pin labels on me?

Try instead follow the words of god??
D&c 98

4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

(Obey the laws he commands not the laws of the land. what he commands)!!!!!!!!!

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

(Anything more or less then following the constitutional laws of the land cometh evil)!!!!!

Why do you feel the need to label me??? While ignoring gods words? I am perfectly justified and encouraged by god to do what I'm doing in obeying only the laws of the land that are constitutional. Constitutional as god scripture and our prophets have defined them.
The federalist papers as well as other writing from the founding father explain that labor is private property and not to be taxed. By men going away from the constitution changing and altering what god created is what has caused us to be in the position we are in with big out of control government. Seizing private property through taxation and going away from the gold standard ammong others changes to the constitution has only cometh evil as god said it would.

The real question is why are you trying to talk me into supporting such blatantly abusive government powers that have obviously created evil when you should be trying to become free from them like me.

Ezra
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Ezra »

Crackers wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:42 pm Ezra,

I see your concern. SS is a benefit I don't begrudge (too much), however, since theoretically, it is your exact money, dollar for dollar (except more like dollar for cents), being returned to you. (Isn't it? I am not a govt benefit expert, lol). In that case, it would be hard for me to feel bad about getting my money returned to me. I get that in practice, due to missmanagment and corruption, it has to be taken from someone else. But it is hard to justify withholding our older citizens of their money. We should probably pay it out of our congressmen's pensions and salaries. Would you be okay with that (hahaha)?
i think a great law to get passed would be that if the government doesn't have a balanced budget that the difference is then seized from the president and congress and houses assests. If that's not enough then government employees.

Bet you we would have a balance budget every year without fail. Bet we would see a huge decrease in government, government spending and entitlement programs. Bet you they would account for every dollar spent.

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brlenox
A sheep in wolf in sheep's clothing
Posts: 2615

Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by brlenox »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:12 pm
Partaking in government theft of others to give money to you. That's sin. Doesn't matter if it's the law is to have your income/property stolen from you by the government. Voted into law by others. It becomes sin when you partake in the spoils of that theft. You can justify partaking in that theft all you want label it however makes you feel good. But it is what it is. Just because your money was stolen doesn't make it right to steal someone else money in return.

D&c 98 specifically states to only follow the laws that are constitutional. So yes I follow the laws that are constitutional and I don't follow laws that are unconstitutional if I can. Which is exactly what d&c tell us to do.

For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation. It's legal yet I have withdrawn my support of socialism by doing so. I have no debt own my own property. Grow my own food. Will produce my own power soon and so am able to put what money I make into saving to provide my own retirement, healthcare, education for my children and so on. Anyone can do the same if they choose too.

So I'm not just talking the talk. I have a nice solid rock foundation that I stand on.

We have been told by our prophets and scripture to fight against and not support socialism or its programs. To awake to that awful situation.

It's foolish to partake in government theft just because they stole from you or are stealing from you. The lord will bless you if you choose to repent and turn away from partaking of the theft of others.

Ezra, I find your perspective remarkable and laudable. It sounds like everything you are doing is legal and simply based on a supreme sense of self-control and honest means of interpreting the law. Based on the limited material you have discussed, I am interested.

freedomforall
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by freedomforall »

AI2.0 wrote: August 27th, 2017, 1:45 pm Do I have to watch the video to find out how much the increase is?
No, go to the Social Security website wherein their are some calculators.

freedomforall
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by freedomforall »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 10:44 am I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.
I have no need of guilt. I worked 35 years and paid into SS the whole time. This is not socialism, it is a delayed spending program. :ymapplause:

freedomforall
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by freedomforall »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:12 pm
gclayjr wrote: August 27th, 2017, 2:49 pm Ezra,
I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.
Which part. Following the law and paying the taxes. Or following the law and receiving the benefit from those taxes you paid?

Do you just follow the laws you agree with and break the others?

or Do you do things even more dishonest and deceptive in order to "avoid" a paying taxes you don't like?


Regards,

George Clay
Partaking in government theft of others to give money to you. That's sin. Doesn't matter if it's the law is to have your income/property stolen from you by the government. Voted into law by others. It becomes sin when you partake in the spoils of that theft. You can justify partaking in that theft all you want label it however makes you feel good. But it is what it is. Just because your money was stolen doesn't make it right to steal someone else money in return.

D&c 98 specifically states to only follow the laws that are constitutional. So yes I follow the laws that are constitutional and I don't follow laws that are unconstitutional if I can. Which is exactly what d&c tell us to do.

For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation. It's legal yet I have withdrawn my support of socialism by doing so. I have no debt own my own property. Grow my own food. Will produce my own power soon and so am able to put what money I make into saving to provide my own retirement, healthcare, education for my children and so on. Anyone can do the same if they choose too.

So I'm not just talking the talk. I have a nice solid rock foundation that I stand on.

We have been told by our prophets and scripture to fight against and not support socialism or its programs. To awake to that awful situation.

It's foolish to partake in government theft just because they stole from you or are stealing from you. The lord will bless you if you choose to repent and turn away from partaking of the theft of others.
Agree to disagree. I had money taken from every single paycheck, so I see no problem of being able to use it now.
Now those laying around in a hammock all day every day and accepting freebies from government, I see as wrong...so let's keep our facts straight, shall we?

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by freedomforall »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 11:23 pm
gclayjr wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:49 pm Ezra,
For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation
You must pay SS or self employment tax on the first dollar you earn. It is arrogantly self serving for YOU to determine which laws you are going to follow and which ones you won't

12 th article of Faith:
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
While we believe that the Constitution is divinely inspired, there is nothing that says we should only obey laws that we believe to be constitutional

Regards,

George Clay
While the constitution doesn't the scriptures do.


Arrogant and self serving???

Why do you keep trying to pin labels on me?

Try instead follow the words of god??
D&c 98

4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

(Obey the laws he commands not the laws of the land. what he commands)!!!!!!!!!

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

(Anything more or less then following the constitutional laws of the land cometh evil)!!!!!

Why do you feel the need to label me??? While ignoring gods words? I am perfectly justified and encouraged by god to do what I'm doing in obeying only the laws of the land that are constitutional. Constitutional as god scripture and our prophets have defined them.
The federalist papers as well as other writing from the founding father explain that labor is private property and not to be taxed. By men going away from the constitution changing and altering what god created is what has caused us to be in the position we are in with big out of control government. Seizing private property through taxation and going away from the gold standard ammong others changes to the constitution has only cometh evil as god said it would.

The real question is why are you trying to talk me into supporting such blatantly abusive government powers that have obviously created evil when you should be trying to become free from them like me.
And what makes you feel justified in degrading those of us who are accepting what is rightfully ours? Some of us worked for our keep and in raising children, and yes, had to pay taxes and social security. But since we could not spend our wages, all of them, we get to have money given back to us after we retire. I suppose you feel that because the government took our money that we should have let them keep it all out of the kindness of our heart.
Not everyone can live on a farm.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by freedomforall »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 11:23 pm
gclayjr wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:49 pm Ezra,
For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation
You must pay SS or self employment tax on the first dollar you earn. It is arrogantly self serving for YOU to determine which laws you are going to follow and which ones you won't

12 th article of Faith:
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
While we believe that the Constitution is divinely inspired, there is nothing that says we should only obey laws that we believe to be constitutional

Regards,

George Clay
While the constitution doesn't the scriptures do.


Arrogant and self serving???

Why do you keep trying to pin labels on me?

Try instead follow the words of god??
D&c 98

4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

(Obey the laws he commands not the laws of the land. what he commands)!!!!!!!!!

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

(Anything more or less then following the constitutional laws of the land cometh evil)!!!!!

Why do you feel the need to label me??? While ignoring gods words? I am perfectly justified and encouraged by god to do what I'm doing in obeying only the laws of the land that are constitutional. Constitutional as god scripture and our prophets have defined them.
The federalist papers as well as other writing from the founding father explain that labor is private property and not to be taxed. By men going away from the constitution changing and altering what god created is what has caused us to be in the position we are in with big out of control government. Seizing private property through taxation and going away from the gold standard ammong others changes to the constitution has only cometh evil as god said it would.

The real question is why are you trying to talk me into supporting such blatantly abusive government powers that have obviously created evil when you should be trying to become free from them like me.
D&C 134:1-3,5,7-9,11-12
1 We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society.
2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.
3 We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign.
5 We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience.
7 We believe that rulers, states, and governments have a right, and are bound to enact laws for the protection of all citizens in the free exercise of their religious belief; but we do not believe that they have a right in justice to deprive citizens of this privilege, or proscribe them in their opinions, so long as a regard and reverence are shown to the laws and such religious opinions do not justify sedition nor conspiracy.
8 We believe that the commission of crime should be punished according to the nature of the offense; that murder, treason, robbery, theft, and the breach of the general peace, in all respects, should be punished according to their criminality and their tendency to evil among men, by the laws of that government in which the offense is committed; and for the public peace and tranquility all men should step forward and use their ability in bringing offenders against good laws to punishment.
9 We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.
11 We believe that men should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as will protect the same; but we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded.
12 We believe it just to preach the gospel to the nations of the earth, and warn the righteous to save themselves from the corruption of the world; but we do not believe it right to interfere with bond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters, nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life, thereby jeopardizing the lives of men; such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in servitude.

Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which are Cæsar’s, Matt. 22:21 (D&C 63:26).

Titus 3:1
1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 Pet. 2:10
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land, D&C 58:21.

D&C 58:22
22 Wherefore, be subject to the powers that be, until he reigns whose right it is to reign, and subdues all enemies under his feet.

Now what is there to say ? D&C 98 is only a part of the equation, right ?

Seek the Truth
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Seek the Truth »

freedomforall wrote: August 28th, 2017, 2:02 am
Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 10:44 am I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.
I have no need of guilt. I worked 35 years and paid into SS the whole time. This is not socialism, it is a delayed spending program. :ymapplause:
It's not only socialism, it's a Ponzi scheme and incredibly destructive to the economy.

But, I wouldn't feel any guilt taking from it, the more we take the more burden is place on it and we can force alternatives.

freedomforall
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by freedomforall »

Seek the Truth wrote: August 28th, 2017, 3:01 am
freedomforall wrote: August 28th, 2017, 2:02 am
Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 10:44 am I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.
I have no need of guilt. I worked 35 years and paid into SS the whole time. This is not socialism, it is a delayed spending program. :ymapplause:
It's not only socialism, it's a Ponzi scheme and incredibly destructive to the economy.

But, I wouldn't feel any guilt taking from it, the more we take the more burden is place on it and we can force alternatives.
But according to scripture I see us judging each other, even to the point of sticking noses in the air, in an attempt to make someone feel less than.
The scriptures I posted above tell us to be subject to what is until Jesus comes and takes charge. So there is no evil committed by accepting money that one has paid, by force, into the corrupt system to only get it back at a later date. And if people are paying ten percent of their income, they are paying tithing on the money taken to go into the fund as well. I have yet to get scolded in a priesthood blessing for giving money to the Lord that was going through government.

Now that this thread has gone off track, has anyone figured out how or what a social security increase will entail?
Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

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gclayjr
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Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by gclayjr »

Ezra
While the constitution doesn't the scriptures do.


Arrogant and self serving???

Why do you keep trying to pin labels on me?

Try instead follow the words of god??
Yea, arrogant and self serving.

1) you take the scripture out of context. This was actually specifically delivered in regards to evil STATE governments (that you seem to love so much) who were defying the constitution in order to murder Mormons and drive them from their homes.

2) You, like those who use the dodge of "following the spirit" as a way to ignore God and his prophets, use your interpretation of the Constitution to defy the Law and use slippery accountants to deceitfully use what may or may not be a legal (or honest) loophole in the law to benefit you.

While you, in your arrogance, state that YOU have determined that income taxes and Social Security are unconstitutional. Actually the Constitution clearly states otherwise
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
So I stand by my statement that you are arrogant in both your defiance of Government laws, and your accusations against those of us who are law abiding, and that you are twisting scripture to support your cause rather than actually following God's law, including the Articles of Faith I quoted., the D&C quoted by Freedom For All, and the guidance given by the Lord's anointed servants.

Regards,

George Clay

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shadow
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Posts: 10542
Location: St. George

Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by shadow »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 11:06 pm
shadow wrote: August 27th, 2017, 9:54 pm
Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:12 pm

For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation. It's legal yet I have withdrawn my support of socialism by doing so. I have no debt own my own property. Grow my own food. Will produce my own power soon and so am able to put what money I make into saving to provide my own retirement, healthcare, education for my children and so on. Anyone can do the same if they choose too.

So I'm not just talking the talk. I have a nice solid rock foundation that I stand on.

We have been told by our prophets and scripture to fight against and not support socialism or its programs. To awake to that awful situation.

It's foolish to partake in government theft just because they stole from you or are stealing from you. The lord will bless you if you choose to repent and turn away from partaking of the theft of others.
Don't you work for a company? I thought you worked as some sort of troubled boy counselor.
If you get a wage, even self employed, then you pay into social security. It doesn't matter if it's a small wage, ss taxes apply from Dollar #1. If you make one dollar, roughly 7.5% is owed to social security (the hidden tax is that your employer also pays 7.5% on your behalf). If self employed, it's 15%. If self employed and you don't pay it, the IRS will hunt you down and take your property and sell it in order for you to pay that tax.
I do work part time for the wilderness program when I feel like it and farm on my property. But claim exempt on w2 For the wilderness program. I get a tax return every year. So even though some money goes to the government i get it all back. If I get back extra I give it to the church or charities.

The IRS cannot seize what I don't own. Trusts are awesome that way. All assets are put in trust. Except vehicles which the trust has a Lein on for 3 times their value.
The trust has its own bank accounts which I have access. I have bank accounts which I keep almost no money. So on paper I'm dirt poor with nothing to take or would make money with the attempt to take it.

I have a awesome cpa who is a ex IRS agent.
So you do participate in social security.
Just an FYI- ss tax is separate from income tax. And I appreciate your honesty in admitting you receive a tax refund, obviously more than you've paid since you're claiming exempt. What you do with your government check is your business, but at least you admit you get a check and cash it. You participate in the system more than you think you do. You're no different than any other citizen. Best wishes.

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markharr
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 6523

Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by markharr »

Seriously people.

Nobody is getting denied entrance into the celestial kingdom because they accepted a social security check.

We have a loving and compassionate heavenly father.

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David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by David13 »

Ezra has somehow developed all these schemes and concoctions to live in a certain way.
Fine, just don't chagrin others just because they don't want to perform all those convolutions.
It may be right for you. That does not mean it's right for any of us.
dc

setyourselffree
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1258

Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by setyourselffree »

Ezra wrote: August 27th, 2017, 7:12 pm
gclayjr wrote: August 27th, 2017, 2:49 pm Ezra,
I say that those who partake in socialism are sinning.
Which part. Following the law and paying the taxes. Or following the law and receiving the benefit from those taxes you paid?

Do you just follow the laws you agree with and break the others?

or Do you do things even more dishonest and deceptive in order to "avoid" a paying taxes you don't like?


Regards,

George Clay
Partaking in government theft of others to give money to you. That's sin. Doesn't matter if it's the law is to have your income/property stolen from you by the government. Voted into law by others. It becomes sin when you partake in the spoils of that theft. You can justify partaking in that theft all you want label it however makes you feel good. But it is what it is. Just because your money was stolen doesn't make it right to steal someone else money in return.

D&c 98 specifically states to only follow the laws that are constitutional. So yes I follow the laws that are constitutional and I don't follow laws that are unconstitutional if I can. Which is exactly what d&c tell us to do.

For instance I have not payed taxes for years by purposely earning less then is required for taxation. It's legal yet I have withdrawn my support of socialism by doing so. I have no debt own my own property. Grow my own food. Will produce my own power soon and so am able to put what money I make into saving to provide my own retirement, healthcare, education for my children and so on. Anyone can do the same if they choose too.

So I'm not just talking the talk. I have a nice solid rock foundation that I stand on.

We have been told by our prophets and scripture to fight against and not support socialism or its programs. To awake to that awful situation.

It's foolish to partake in government theft just because they stole from you or are stealing from you. The lord will bless you if you choose to repent and turn away from partaking of the theft of others.
Pretty sure you are wrong according to this article of faith 12: We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

You can't choose which laws you want to obey.

But if you want to live a Law of Moses type life, then you are free to do it. But don't condemn others because they live the law of this land.

Michelle
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Social Security Increase?

Post by Michelle »

I am so disappointed in so many commenters that I have respected in the past.

Ezra has done something amazing and legal. I applaud him wholeheartedly. I agree with his actions and understanding and wish everyone trusted God to provide for them instead of the government ( arm of God vs. arm of flesh) He does not seem to have intentionally offended any if you, but you have taken offense and then turned and insulted him intentionally.

I am both stunned and saddened by so many on an LDS Freedom Forum who only espouse principles of freedom until it affects their bread and butter or would require more work on their part.

I appreciate that at least one other commenter seemed to appreciate the principled genius of this plan.

Good job Ezra! I have only taken half the steps you have, but like brlenox I am curious about more details.

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