Jesef wrote: ↑September 19th, 2017, 9:21 pm
Remnant Friends,
Well, I've noticed a lot of red-flags and contradictions in Denver's teachings. He makes a lot of self-aggrandizing comments and references to himself. These are quite similar of people with grandiose delusions of self-importance.
Btw, several of my nephews just returned from missions and apparently the Holy Ghost is still drawing people into the Church in this same manner - doesn't that contradict what Snuffer is saying? That even the Aaronic Priesthood authority is invalid in the Church? Also, several of these recent baptized converts reported experiences upon being confirmed that I could only account as being the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost - this definitely contradicts Snuffer's story (no Melchizedek Priesthood) - or are all things functioning in the LDS Church, still, according to people's faith? Wouldn't that mean the Church really is not defunct/rejected - but rather the same as it ever has been?
I've read and heard Denver more than the average bear by now. Mt testimony is that he does everything humanly possible to minimize himself and to deflect attention from himself and to the Lord or to his message, and that he even ridicules and condemns those who fawn over him or appear to follow him. Honestly, what more could he do? If I were in his shoes, I don't know what I'd do differently. It seems like he's being very deliberate about avoiding priestcraft to the point of being a recluse and appearing disagreeable and aloof. He tries to take a back seat in every meeting, activity or venture. And yet, he's commanded to say certain things, so he HAS TO speak what he's been commanded. And then WHEN he speaks, he's "self-aggrandizing"and "referring" to himself. Holy cow. He's truly in a no-win situation.
I have gobs of Denver quotes to back up my testimony that he's humble and meek and even self deprecating. On the few occasions I've seen him in person, as soon as he's done delivering his message, he splits. He doesn't like to be the center of attention and avoids the attention almost to the point of being a hermit with no apparent comfort in social settings. Maybe he is a hermit? Idk. Or maybe he's just trying to steer clear of the spotlight.
The man must be a crazy and a foolish businessman because a few days ago he paid around $25,000 (estimated) for a full-page ad in the LA Times, advertising his speech TOMORROW (Thurs at 7 pm Pacific Time). Livestreaming available from his
his website
On this same website, his "self aggrandizing" side of him is in full display at this
"About the Speaker" webpage.
Mr. Snuffer has authored 16 volumes on Mormonism that cover both Mormon history and doctrine (one of which is now translated into Spanish). Mr. Snuffer maintains a website where he publishes short essays and posts links to his books, talks, and longer essays. He taught for three years at Brigham Young University's Summertime "Education Week" on the BYU campus in Provo, Utah. He has presented papers at the annual Sunstone Symposium in Salt Lake City, Utah for several years. (read the rest of the bland intro at the link.)
For a man who touts himself as having a message from God (and is very similar to Jonah preaching to Nineveh down to the same eerie celestial detail of the solar eclipse occurring just before Jonah's ministry begins), that description above is woefully pathetic as far as generating any excitement for his upcoming talk. For the casual Christian, who the hell cares if some exed Mormon author and practicing attorney is coming to town! Yawn! From a marketing or "get people's attention" standpoint, one would think he could have spiced up the ad he took out by declaring that he is sent from God to the people of LA like Noah was sent. That may have persuaded a reporter to write an article. That could have ended up a city-wide or nationwide story. But all he did was quote mostly scripture, and then he actually threw Christian ministers and their churches under the bus, basically guaranteeing a cold welcome by the local clergy! Perhaps based on what he says tomorrow night, a Dallas reporter may have some material for the Dallas newspaper. Perhaps Denver may even get some national exposure. I'm guessing this will in fact occur, since we're in the digital, Information Age and since Denver does purport to be a prophet in the same vein of any OT prophet. I don't see how greater exposure is unavoidable. I ask Jesef, IF national or even worldwide exposure came via the media, would this be by the "power of the Holy Ghost?" It's a good question. Lehi's words could have only been heard by those in earshot. Imagine if every inhabitant of Jerusalem back in 600 BC was informed of what he was saying by news articles on their iPhone or through social media. Contrast the "reach" of Denver compared to ANY prophet in the past.
It was miraculously prophesied that Joseph's name would be had for good and evil among all men. What an astounding prophesy. Denver may very well help fulfill that prophesy this year with his 3 talks and get to "self aggrandize" along the way.
As to your last concern, Denver was clear that the priesthood
of the LEADERS was forfeited when they kicked against the pricks, persecuted him, and fought against God (DC 121).
Denver said in Talk #10:
Section 121 is a warning to church leaders. It is addressing the powerful, not the powerless. It is addressing those who occupy the seats of authority over others. Only those who claim the right to control, compel, and exercise dominion, are warned against persecuting the saints, who believe the religion and practice it as I did from the time of my conversion. My excommunication was an abuse of authority. Therefore, as soon as the decision was made, the Lord terminated the priesthood authority of the stake presidency and every member of the High Council who sustained this decision, which was unanimous. Thereafter, I appealed to the First Presidency, outlining the involvement of the 12 and the 70. The appeal gave notice to them all.20 The appeal was summarily denied.
Read the before and after comments. They are very enlightening and instructive.
Denver specified it was the LEADERS' priesthood and authority which was lost. The ties to the Lord were severed. Matt 10:40:
He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Last general conference, the entire First Presidency, the 12, the 70, and all other general authorities and auxiliaries, voted to sustain those who abused their authority in casting me out of the church. At that moment, the Lord ended all claims of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to claim it is led by the priesthood.21 They have not practiced what He requires. The Lord has brought about His purposes. This has been in His heart all along. He has chosen to use small means to accomplish it, but He always uses the smallest of means to fulfill His purposes.
None of this was my doing. The Lord's strange act, was not, could not, be planned by me. Was not, could not, have been controlled by me. It was not anticipated by me, or even understood by me, until after the Lord had accomplished His will, and made it apparent to me on the evening of May 1, 2014. He alone has done this. He is the author of all of this.
*21 Meaning the leaders who exercised control, compulsion and dominion, and not the powerless who had no part in the affair.
He wasn't talking about the rank and file's priesthood, unless you are FOR using unrighteous dominion to cast him out. Most Mormons (esp outside the west) don't even know about Denver Snuffer. And many who DO know about him have been so badly propagandized that they think he's evil and wrong without knowing the facts. If the masses did know, I believe there'd be a revolt overnight, or at least a true schism...IF the truth was known.
If there was a serious debate (with proper facts given) in Sunday Schools throughout the world, I believe a major schism would happen overnight in the Church.
That day WILL come. There will be a "great division."
The Church is engaged in a massive cover-up of not just Denver's excommunication, but of things I've mentioned like Elder Poelman's refilmed 1984 talk, like the WW excerpts secretly added in 1981 to OD1, like the LoF being removed in 1921, like Church history, like ANYTHING which puts the institution in an unfavorable light, like the precipitous decline of tithing "revenues", like the reasons for stagnate/ declining growth among the gentiles, like the reasons for 80+% of high school grads in the Church going less active, like the number of convert baptisms, like an accounting of how sacred tithing monies are being spent (malls, apartment complexes, farms, etc.) , like how much money and compensation are GA's, mission presidents receiving, like Joseph's Last Vision, etc., etc. The list goes on. MASSIVE cover-ups have been going on for years, but the Lord prophecies that all hidden things will be brought to light.
That's why it's not just sad, but astonishingly stupid, for the Church to think they could stem the truth from getting out. No UNHALLOWED HAND can stop the truth from filling the whole earth!!!! The Church is at least partially unhallowed, as evidenced by all the corruption hidden in plain view. And yet, there still is good in the Church. Thank goodness there is still good. It's not a zero sum apostasy. To what degree it's corrupt is the question.
Seriously, it makes me smile now.