Denver Snuffer's Remnant scripture project and covenant

[drtanner]

drtanner.

And why would I want a witness of men? Of what value is it?

The church is a vehicle not a destination. Jesus Christ is the destination. You must know Jesus Christ to have eternal life. Having a testimony of some men gains you absolutely nothing.

You talk about covenants. Why does the church not keep their end of the covenant? It takes more than one party to fulfill a covenant. Two or more parties must comply by the terms.

What do you think keys do? Do you think they save you? Does the endowment ever save you or is it trying to teach how to gain salvation?

If these 15 men are the mouthpiece of God, why do they not lead us to repent and conform to the words of God? Why do they tell us all is well when we do not live by either the precepts found in the Book of Mormon or by the sermon on the mount? Why do they let us continue to walk in sin?

"20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin."

If they are the mouthpiece of God, why have they denied the fullness of the gospel as found in D&C 84?

Why do they try to trick us into thinking we will have eternal life by being loyal to them and the church, when God requires more?

Do you want eternal life or do you want wailing and gnashing teeth as the scriptures predict will be the case for many who think they have eternal life?

Let's be clear about what the "witness" is. It is not a witness of following a man. It is a witness that he speaks for God and is authorized to perform or delegate the keys that authorize ordinances that bind on earth and heaven. Please do not group those who sustain these men into the category of not having faith in Christ and him alone for salvation. There is a difference between the church and the gospel, but both work together for your salvation. That is why you would want a witness of a prophet.

There are no tricks except for those the adversary is playing on you. I'm happy to fast and pray with you if you are open to it.

[AI2.0]

I don't know how many times it has to be said, the church had lesser priesthood until April 2014. And it is likely not even correct to say the church had it. The church does not hold priesthood. People hold priesthood. Denver stated, the church could no longer claim, it was led by the priesthood after the above date. Why? because they rejected the offer to repent. The curse was lifted, God offered repentance. The message was delivered by Denver Snuffer. When the leaders refused that offer, they lost their lower priesthood. The only priesthood they ever had.

The higher priesthood was briefly held by some few, in the early days of the church but it was taken from them for transgression.

And how many times are you going to show that Remnant followers want their cake and eat it too.

If Denver Snuffer is correct that the church was rejected at the death of Joseph Smith, and the dispensation ended, then there is NO WAY that the lesser priesthood could have continued. And IF you want to claim the lesser priesthood continued, then Denver Snuffer never had proper priesthood, ever, while he was a member for 40 years. And IF this is the case, why did Denver say that men who'd been ordained before 2013 held proper priesthood?? You are contradictory in your claims, but I understand why--because Denver Snuffer is contradictory in his claims. He's saying things now that he did not claim before and you all can't keep up with the changes!

Thomas, you don't seem to know what Denver Snuffer is preaching now and that's because he keeps evolving in his views and the biggest problem is that he's building his church on top of the foundation of the church he used to belong to.

[AI2.0]

My responses in blue:

drtanner.

And why would I want a witness of men? Of what value is it? Seriously, do you not see the irony in this statement??? You are a follower of Denver Snuffer because he said he saw Jesus Christ. Is he not a man??? Do you not see that by denigrating others' witnesses you are denigrating his???? Thomas, you need to think before you type.

The church is a vehicle not a destination. Jesus Christ is the destination. You must know Jesus Christ to have eternal life. Having a testimony of some men gains you absolutely nothing. And you don't think you are expected to trust Snuffer? Did you accept his covenant that he offered? You'd be stupid to make a covenant he offered if you didn't trust him. And, If so, why are you criticizing LDS for making covenants?
I don't think you are stupid, so you MUST have trusted him.

You talk about covenants. Why does the church not keep their end of the covenant? It takes more than one party to fulfill a covenant. Two or more parties must comply by the terms.

What do you think keys do? Do you think they save you? Does the endowment ever save you or is it trying to teach how to gain salvation? Apparently your prophet Snuffer thought keys were necessary. He seems to think they are vital for what he wants to achieve,
or why bother 'wresting' them from the first Presidency?

If these 15 men are the mouthpiece of God, why do they not lead us to repent and conform to the words of God? Why do they tell us all is well when we do not live by either the precepts found in the Book of Mormon or by the sermon on the mount? Why do they let us continue to walk in sin? You don't listen to them, because if you did, you would not make these accusations. I bet it's been a long time since you bothered to listen to anything they say. You are an example of the warning in Alma 12. You're beginning to show how much knowledge and truth you are losing....

"20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin."If you think your piddly little offerings at fellowships are going to keep the remnant from this condemnation, think again. You all aren't paying a proper tithe or living the law of consecration so don't lecture the LDS church when we are doing way more than you can imagine. And I've been wondering--since Snuffer is trying to restore everything to what was done in Joseph's time, when are you all going to start living the law of consecration?????

If they are the mouthpiece of God, why have they denied the fullness of the gospel as found in D&C 84?

Why do they try to trick us into thinking we will have eternal life by being loyal to them and the church, when God requires more?

Do you want eternal life or do you want wailing and gnashing teeth as the scriptures predict will be the case for many who think they have eternal life?

You are so busy judging and condemning others, do you not think you should consider carefully your own warnings?

[Thomas]

drtanner.

And why would I want a witness of men? Of what value is it?

The church is a vehicle not a destination. Jesus Christ is the destination. You must know Jesus Christ to have eternal life. Having a testimony of some men gains you absolutely nothing.

You talk about covenants. Why does the church not keep their end of the covenant? It takes more than one party to fulfill a covenant. Two or more parties must comply by the terms.

What do you think keys do? Do you think they save you? Does the endowment ever save you or is it trying to teach how to gain salvation?

If these 15 men are the mouthpiece of God, why do they not lead us to repent and conform to the words of God? Why do they tell us all is well when we do not live by either the precepts found in the Book of Mormon or by the sermon on the mount? Why do they let us continue to walk in sin?

"20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin."

If they are the mouthpiece of God, why have they denied the fullness of the gospel as found in D&C 84?

Why do they try to trick us into thinking we will have eternal life by being loyal to them and the church, when God requires more?

Do you want eternal life or do you want wailing and gnashing teeth as the scriptures predict will be the case for many who think they have eternal life?

Let's be clear about what the "witness" is. It is not a witness of following a man. It is a witness that he speaks for God and is authorized to perform or delegate the keys that authorize ordinances that bind on earth and heaven. Please do not group those who sustain these men into the category of not having faith in Christ and him alone for salvation. There is a difference between the church and the gospel, but both work together for your salvation. That is why you would want a witness of a prophet.

There are no tricks except for those the adversary is playing on you. I'm happy to fast and pray with you if you are open to it.

Thank you for the offer. I don't know if you saw my previous posts where I have explained that I have prayed at least 1,000 times about this whole thing. I wonder if you have prayed about Snuffer's message?

I extend the offer to you to pray about it but understand that I don't believe God will force any information on you that you wont seek yourself. I also think the spirit will explain things to you. The spirit has explained to me how the 15 are not God's mouthpiece. The spirit also explained, in great detail why not. Some of the answers I have received have been given above. Like how can they be prophets when they don't lead into compliance with the word of God. The spirit has used the scriptures to show me the many, many ways they do not conform. In fact, the spirit has told me, they most closely resemble the Pharisees, in the time of Christ. They bind heavy burdens upon their followers which they will not lift a finger to bear themselves. They love the chief seats at a feast. They even have an exclusive entrance into the temple so they don't have to mingle with the common member like the Pharisees had. I could literally write a book about what the spirit has revealed to me about it. Most of it found in scripture.

On the other hand, God has shown me how Denver Snuffer fits the pattern of a true prophet and explained in great detail how he fits that pattern.

Any witness you have received should come with an explanation from the spirit. It should conform to scripture or you may be receiving a witness from a deceiving spirit. If you are taking feelings or spiritual manifestations as proof without explanation than a false spirit can confirm anything. I hope you are taking that into consideration and will ask God to explain to you why or how the 15 fit the pattern of true servants or prophets or if they do not, to explain to you why. God will reason with you as one man reasons with another.

[clarkkent14]

I don't know how many times it has to be said, the church had lesser priesthood until April 2014. And it is likely not even correct to say the church had it. The church does not hold priesthood. People hold priesthood. Denver stated, the church could no longer claim, it was led by the priesthood after the above date. Why? because they rejected the offer to repent. The curse was lifted, God offered repentance. The message was delivered by Denver Snuffer. When the leaders refused that offer, they lost their lower priesthood. The only priesthood they ever had.

The higher priesthood was briefly held by some few, in the early days of the church but it was taken from them for transgression.

And how many times are you going to show that Remnant followers want their cake and eat it too.

If Denver Snuffer is correct that the church was rejected at the death of Joseph Smith, and the dispensation ended, then there is NO WAY that the lesser priesthood could have continued. And IF you want to claim the lesser priesthood continued, then Denver Snuffer never had proper priesthood, ever, while he was a member for 40 years. And IF this is the case, why did Denver say that men who'd been ordained before 2013 held proper priesthood?? You are contradictory in your claims, but I understand why--because Denver Snuffer is contradictory in his claims. He's saying things now that he did not claim before and you all can't keep up with the changes!

Thomas, you don't seem to know what Denver Snuffer is preaching now and that's because he keeps evolving in his views and the biggest problem is that he's building his church on top of the foundation of the church he used to belong to.

This is really simple folks.

18 And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations, which priesthood also continueth and abideth forever with the priesthood which is after the holiest order of God.

19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.

20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.

21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.

25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;

26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;

The lesser priesthood can continue with those who are in apostasy. Then God will send a messenger and once that messenger is rejected by their own law, their claim to priesthood ends.

The Greatness and Mission of John the Baptist

Section Five 1842-43, p.275

The question arose from the saying of Jesus--"Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." How is it that John was considered one of the greatest prophets? His miracles could not have constituted his greatness.

Section Five 1842-43, p.275

First. He was entrusted with a divine mission of preparing the way before the face of the Lord. Whoever had such a trust committed to him before or since? No man.

Section Five 1842-43, p.275

Secondly. He was entrusted with the important mission, and it was required at his hands, to baptize the Son of Man. Whoever had the honor of doing that? Whoever had so great a privilege and glory? Whoever led the Son of God into the waters of baptism, and had the privilege of beholding the Holy Ghost descend in the form of a dove, or rather in the sign of the dove, in witness of that administration? The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. The Holy Ghost is a personage, and is in the form of a personage. It does not confine itself to the form of the dove, but in sign of the dove. The Holy Ghost cannot be transformed into a dove; but the sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence.

Section Five 1842-43, p.276

Thirdly. John, at that time, was the only legal administrator in the affairs of the kingdom there was then on the earth, and holding the keys of power. The Jews had to obey his instructions or be damned, by their own law; and Christ Himself fulfilled all righteousness in becoming obedient to the law which he had given to Moses on the mount, and thereby magnified it and made it honorable, instead of destroying it. The son of Zacharias wrested the keys, the kingdom, the power, the glory from the Jews, by the holy anointing and decree of heaven, and these three reasons constitute him the greatest prophet born of a woman.

Has happened before, can happen again. Simple.

[LukeAir2008]

True Believers in Christ make a sacred covenant every week to take upon themselves his name, to keep his commandments, to share his gospel etc that they may have his Spirit to be with them - it's called partaking of the Sacrament.

[clarkkent14]

"Now this [Joseph] plainly taught to the [Latter-day Saints] in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God; But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory. Therefore, he took [Joseph] out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also." (D&C 84:17-26.)

[Thomas]

True Believers in Christ make a sacred covenant every week to take upon themselves his name, to keep his commandments, to share his gospel etc that they may have his Spirit to be with them - it's called partaking of the Sacrament.

And they should do it in conformance to the original ordinance as Joseph Smith taught that changing the ordinance breaks it or nullifies it. So that is why I do it with the priesthood, all participants kneeling, and with wine instead of water.

[drtanner]

drtanner.

And why would I want a witness of men? Of what value is it?

The church is a vehicle not a destination. Jesus Christ is the destination. You must know Jesus Christ to have eternal life. Having a testimony of some men gains you absolutely nothing.

You talk about covenants. Why does the church not keep their end of the covenant? It takes more than one party to fulfill a covenant. Two or more parties must comply by the terms.

What do you think keys do? Do you think they save you? Does the endowment ever save you or is it trying to teach how to gain salvation?

If these 15 men are the mouthpiece of God, why do they not lead us to repent and conform to the words of God? Why do they tell us all is well when we do not live by either the precepts found in the Book of Mormon or by the sermon on the mount? Why do they let us continue to walk in sin?

"20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin."

If they are the mouthpiece of God, why have they denied the fullness of the gospel as found in D&C 84?

Why do they try to trick us into thinking we will have eternal life by being loyal to them and the church, when God requires more?

Do you want eternal life or do you want wailing and gnashing teeth as the scriptures predict will be the case for many who think they have eternal life?

Let's be clear about what the "witness" is. It is not a witness of following a man. It is a witness that he speaks for God and is authorized to perform or delegate the keys that authorize ordinances that bind on earth and heaven. Please do not group those who sustain these men into the category of not having faith in Christ and him alone for salvation. There is a difference between the church and the gospel, but both work together for your salvation. That is why you would want a witness of a prophet.

There are no tricks except for those the adversary is playing on you. I'm happy to fast and pray with you if you are open to it.

Thank you for the offer. I don't know if you saw my previous posts where I have explained that I have prayed at least 1,000 times about this whole thing. I wonder if you have prayed about Snuffer's message?

I extend the offer to you to pray about it but understand that I don't believe God will force any information on you that you wont seek yourself. I also think the spirit will explain things to you. The spirit has explained to me how the 15 are not God's mouthpiece. The spirit also explained, in great detail why not. Some of the answers I have received have been given above. Like how can they be prophets when they don't lead into compliance with the word of God. The spirit has used the scriptures to show me the many, many ways they do not conform. In fact, the spirit has told me, they most closely resemble the Pharisees, in the time of Christ. They bind heavy burdens upon their followers which they will not lift a finger to bear themselves. They love the chief seats at a feast. They even have an exclusive entrance into the temple so they don't have to mingle with the common member like the Pharisees had. I could literally write a book about what the spirit has revealed to me about it. Most of it found in scripture.

On the other hand, God has shown me how Denver Snuffer fits the pattern of a true prophet and explained in great detail how he fits that pattern.

Any witness you have received should come with an explanation from the spirit. It should conform to scripture or you may be receiving a witness from a deceiving spirit. If you are taking feelings or spiritual manifestations as proof without explanation than a false spirit can confirm anything. I hope you are taking that into consideration and will ask God to explain to you why or how the 15 fit the pattern of true servants or prophets or if they do not, to explain to you why. God will reason with you as one man reasons with another.

I'm still up to fast and pray with you, 1001th time may just be what it takes. Let me know if you change your mind.

[Thomas]

I will make a deal with you. You fast and pray about Snuffer and I will ask again about the 15. I really doubt that God will overturn the hundreds of hours of instruction he has already given me but if it will motivate you to pray about Snuffer's message, than why not.

[jdt]

Wait a minute. If you and jdt are going to criticize the LDS church writers because things were not reported at the time they happened, or criticize them for 'trying to shore up' their authority, you'll have to criticize Denver Snuffer for the things he's done--he told about having his name changed to David, after the fact by a few years (so is it also suspect??) and he has used his claims of speaking with Christ to give himself authority, his most well known being his 'wresting the key's claim.

And sorry, but no one is pointing to authority to say they should be obeyed. We believe in agency. You are over sensitive to anything an LDS church authority says but ignore the claims of authority by your own prophet, Pres. Snuffer.

This is not an apples to apples comparison. We may not have open access to it, but the events are recorded in his journal as they happen. And the event at the time was private, really only pertaining to him as opposed to something on the order of "Brigham should be leading the church".

Furthermore is it really criticism to ask why someone would not write down something right away about something as momentous as God spoke from heaven and said who should lead his church?

[jdt]

Let's be clear about what the "witness" is. It is not a witness of following a man. It is a witness that he speaks for God and is authorized to perform or delegate the keys that authorize ordinances that bind on earth and heaven.

Whether intentional or not, the words you use are still deeply troubling to me.
I would much rather hear the words "It is a witness that the message shared was given to him from God" than what you said. And the difference is significant. Because again the focus should always be on the message and not the messenger. But I rarely hear that language from TBM's.

[jdt]

Underdog, Thomas, and/or JDT, maybe we could focus on one thing at a time - there are so many potential issues - and we're all a bit scatter-brained or shooting shotguns - maybe a sniper rifle is what we need for a little while.

If Denver's message is true, how could the Lord have possibly meant what he said in D&C 65 (the whole section).

http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper- ... 31-dc-65/1
Revelation Oct. 30th. 1831
Hearken & Lo a voice as one sent down from on high who is mighty & powerfull whose going forth is unto the ends of the Earth yea whose voice is unto men prepare ye the way of the Lord make his paths strait The keys of the kingdom of God is committed unto man on the Earth & from thence shall the Gospel roll forth unto the ends of the Earth as the stone which is hewn from the Mountain without hands shall roll forth untill it hath filled the whole Earth yea a voice crying prepare ye the way of the Lord prepare ye the supper of the Lamb make ready for the Bridegroom pray unto the Lord call upon his holy name make known his wonderfull works. among the people call upon the Lord that his kingdom may go forth upon the Earth that the inhabitants thereof may received it & be prepared for the days to come in the which the Son of man Shall come down in heaven Clothed in the brightness of his glory to meet the kingdom of God which is set up on the Earth Wherefore may the kingdom of God go forth that the kingdom of heaven may come that thou O God may be glorified in heaven so on Earth that thine enemies may be subdued for thine is the honour power & glory forever & ever Amen

Please read and notice all the references to Daniel's prophecy being applied to the work then underway with the Church set up by Joseph, as well as the references to Jacob 5. You can't imagine that The Lord had not foreknowledge that Joseph was going to be killed in 1844. None of the language in the entire cannon of JS's revelations bespeaks total rejected/failure and a 170 year apostasy. Also, what was The Lord waiting for, for that 170 years, for Denver Snuffer to be born and join the Church? Come on. Why doesn't the last part of Jacob 5 describe a huge break and a new servant and cutting down the corrupt tree (the LDS Church) or its wicked servants?

Sorry Jesef, I doubt we can undo the massive number of topics.
I will point out that the reference to Daniel was in the future tense. As was the reference you gave several pages back that was just 6 weeks prior to his death. And I will point out that by the Council of Fifty, they gave up on the Church being the mechanism mentioned by Daniel and thought it was instead the Council of Fifty (which mind you they went out of their way to repeatedly say was a wholly distinct body from the Church).
The problem is that when a person tries to attribute fulfillment of a prophecy before the entire thing is filled, (i.e. when you see the possible beginnings) you get derailed by thinking that it must be the answer. The truth is that there has always been poor among us, we are not of one heart and mind, and we do not everyone know the Lord. I submit that this is what the natural fruit is. And yet where do we see it? So did the grafting even take place? The most recent interpretations I have been hearing about Jacob 5, seems to leave out Josephs work entirely and that the start of the verses around 55 are meaning today and not 1820. I leave this as speculation. Because in so many ways, I am afraid the Remnant is falling into the same thing. Why talk about grafting and pruning until we see the natural fruit? Why talk about a kingdom that fills the earth when we don't even have peace among a 15 million member church or 1500 person movement? I don't get it.
Oh and read McKay Platt's description about the subjunctive mood (http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2017/ ... g-god.html) The Lord uses this extensively, including parts of your quote above. It is important to notice when He does so.

[drtanner]

Let's be clear about what the "witness" is. It is not a witness of following a man. It is a witness that he speaks for God and is authorized to perform or delegate the keys that authorize ordinances that bind on earth and heaven.

Whether intentional or not, the words you use are still deeply troubling to me.
I would much rather hear the words "It is a witness that the message shared was given to him from God" than what you said. And the difference is significant. Because again the focus should always be on the message and not the messenger. But I rarely hear that language from TBM's.

If they are troubling then you don't understand what I"m saying and are making false assumptions about a testimony of a prophet. Or you don't understand the role and importance of a modern prophet. Has nothing to do with a man, it is the message, it is the authority to administer ordinaces, it is about the sealing power, but most important it is about Christ and his role in our salvation. I could never deny the witness I have of these things.

Have you never had experiences as you attended the temple as a witness of the truth that priesthood authority exists in the "house of the Lord?"

[jdt]

Underdog, Thomas, JDT

Do you believe George Q Cannon lied when he said:

"I know that Jesus lives; for I have seen Him."

How about President Kimball when he said the following:

“I know that God lives. I know that Jesus Christ lives,” said John Taylor, my predecessor, “for I have seen him.” I bear this testimony to you brethren in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen."

When Elder Brough was alive he shared with a few of us in person some experiences he had with individuals on the other side. Out of respect for him I will not repeat what was said but I will never forget what was felt while visiting with him.

I have also sat in a room one on one with one of the brethren as they shared how they gained their witness of Christ. I could never deny what was felt and the chain of events that led to that experience as an answer to my prayers.

As powerful as these experiences are I do not hang my hat on them for my personal conversion. I rely alone upon the merits of Christ for my salvation, but I know that the power of Godliness is manifest through his authorized ordinances. I know that as we make and keep covenants we receive power from on high. The sealing power is real and only found in this church.

The 15 men who we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators have the keys of the priesthood. Thomas S Monson is the Lord's prophet. How will you really know? Put their words to the test. Commit to follow them as the Lord's mouthpiece and when you are all in and Heaven knows it you will know. Conference is right around the corner, put Heaven to the test and receive your own witness of these men.

I had the opportunity to meet Elder Brough a couple times on my mission. Great guy! He had the idea that we could leverage family history as a missionary tool. We never really found a way to implement his ideas as full-time missionaries, but I thought his "tell me about your family" lead in was based on some great principles.
I have no reason to doubt any of those men had the experiences they claim. Again, I have never claimed the Lord went on vacation (or anything like thereto). I certainly hope they did have those experiences, and hope I will have similar in the future. But if they did have those experiences, it does not mean that the church was not under condemnation since 1832 for taking lightly the Book of Mormon (as President Benson pointed out), does not mean that the fulness of the priesthood was not removed (as D&C 124 states), does not mean that we have achieved Zion, or any other host of things that show that we as a people need to do a ton of repenting.
This whole "have the keys of the priesthood", I have found to be the modern day equivalent of "we are the children of Abraham". It really becomes an unfalsifiable claim (seriously can someone tell me what things would look like if they lost the keys?) that basically ensures that they have God's favor. It is essentially Calvin's doctrine of irresistible grace (that there is nothing that can be done to resist God's grace if he decides to give it to you).

[jdt]

If they are troubling then you don't understand what I"m saying and are making false assumptions about a testimony of a prophet. Or you don't understand the role and importance of a modern prophet. Has nothing to do with a man, it is the message, it is the authority to administer ordinaces, it is about the sealing power, but most important it is about Christ and his role in our salvation. I could never deny the witness I have of these things.

Have you never had experiences as you attended the temple as a witness of the truth that priesthood authority exists in the "house of the Lord?"

If you mean this, then show me the message. Seriously, pick an address from President Monson that the Lord gave to him to give to us. And I am not talking still small voice like we expect 12 year olds to get for sacrament talks, I mean an angel came and said this is what you need to say like King Benjamin.
I have said several times on this forum (in this thread) and not been challenged on this point by anyone: you remove the words that were spoken by President Monson and attribute them to your local ward Physical Facilities Rep and they would never receive any attention. This is because the message is not what is important. And the opposite is true too, your ward PFR could write a talk that President Monson delivers and it would be assumed to be the mind and will of the Lord. All power and influence in the Church is maintained by virtue of the priesthood.

[Seek the Truth]

"Now this [Joseph] plainly taught to the [Latter-day Saints] in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God; But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory. Therefore, he took [Joseph] out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also." (D&C 84:17-26.)

Lol. You had to subtract and add to scriptures. Pretty harsh statements about that in scripture.

[Seek the Truth]

I will make a deal with you. You fast and pray about Snuffer and I will ask again about the 15. I really doubt that God will overturn the hundreds of hours of instruction he has already given me but if it will motivate you to pray about Snuffer's message, than why not.

Why do you ask people to gain testimony of a man where on the same page you say such testimony is worthless.

Do you understand the cosmic contradiction? I do not need Denver Snuffer even by your logic.

Your position is fatally flawed.

[Seek the Truth]

This is really simple folks.

No, it's not simple. Snufferite claims are all over the map. Some say the Melchizedek Priesthood was lost. Some say it wasn't. Some say Denver "wrested" keys, from a Church with no higher Priesthood? How is this possible? Some say keys aren't necessary at all, and any man between you and Christ is a deceiver. Except Denver Snuffer. The only man who can be between you and God.

It is a contradictory house of confusion, which cannot stand.

[Seek the Truth]

Has happened before, can happen again. Simple.

Except Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith said this was the last dispensation that would not happen again and would endure till the end.

So no it cannot happen again. Simple. See my sig.

[Seek the Truth]

So it should be obvious that in order to have equality, some drastic change has to take place. We cannot have those who esteem themselves better rule over us

How do they rule over you.

[Seek the Truth]

I would say that now,

Oh, the words of a man. The arm of flesh. We know what that is worth.

[clarkkent14]

Has happened before, can happen again. Simple.

Except Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith said this was the last dispensation that would not happen again and would endure till the end.

So no it cannot happen again. Simple. See my sig.

"If the people of Zion did not repent, the Lord would seek another place, and another people."

[Jesef]

But we can't get an answer about Snuffer until after we follow him, remember? The Lord may (subjunctive mood), apparently, be unwilling to answer or manifest the truth of Snuffer, his claims of wresting the keys of the kingdom, etc., and his message, by the power of the Holy Ghost - for we may receive no witness until after the trial of our faith - like some extreme sacrifices, not limited to, but such as breaking all our sacred covenants, removing our names from the (purportedly corrupt and defunct) Church (i.e. self-excommunication), being re-baptized (hoping Denver is correct), and making a new covenant under his direction (hoping it is valid) - then, maybe, we just might get an answer (and start flying before we hit the bottom of the cliff we just jumped off - or hope, at least, that there might be water at the bottom of the bridge, hoping we are over a bridge with water because we just jumped off the train). Thanks for pointing out the ever-elusive subjunctive mood which has just invalidated almost all of scripture. "By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." Just may/might/maybe/probably not.

[Arenera]

But we can't get an answer about Snuffer until after we follow him, remember? The Lord may (subjunctive mood), apparently, be unwilling to answer or manifest the truth of Snuffer, his claims of wresting the keys of the kingdom, etc., and his message, by the power of the Holy Ghost - for we may receive no witness until after the trial of our faith - like some extreme sacrifices, not limited to, but such as breaking all our sacred covenants, removing our names from the (purportedly corrupt and defunct) Church (i.e. self-excommunication), being re-baptized (hoping Denver is correct), and making a new covenant under his direction (hoping it is valid) - then, maybe, we just might get an answer (and start flying before we hit the bottom of the cliff we just jumped off - or hope, at least, that there might be water at the bottom of the bridge, hoping we are over a bridge with water because we just jumped off the train). Thanks for pointing out the ever-elusive subjunctive mood which has just invalidated almost all of scripture. "By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." Just may/might/maybe/probably not.

You have to make some principles now. Being led by a blogger. Isn't that trusting in the arm of flesh?! This is one strange movement, going from Christ to arms of men. Maybe its time to mow a lawn.