Law of tithing
- DOZ
- captain of 100
- Posts: 247
Law of tithing
Can anyone tell me where I can find a quote stating that we are asked to pay 10% tithing on the gross income ( before tax ) ?
Thank you guys!
Thank you guys!
- ldsff
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1924
- Col. Flagg
- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 16961
- Location: Utah County
Re: Law of tithing
I don't think there is one, but I once heard a speaker in our ward put it a great way... "it depends if you'd rather have gross blessings or net blessings". I usually pay tithing on my net because of our money situation, but I wish I had the faith to pay it on my gross. I guess I'm in the 'net' blessings category.DOZ wrote:Can anyone tell me where I can find a quote stating that we are asked to pay 10% tithing on the gross income ( before tax ) ?
Thank you guys!
- ldsff
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1924
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Law of tithing
IF we quibble over definitions of tithing, we won't be ready for the Law of Consecration which requires ALL... i.e. 100%. I hve warned agains and again on this forum that we all need to be committed 100% in both our mind and heart before April, 2009.
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5560
- Location: American Fork, Utah
Re: Law of tithing
We pay on our gross, because that would be our increase if it was not for being robbed by government bandits.
These verse may help:
Alma 13: 15
15 And it was this same Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes; yea, even our father Abraham paid tithes of one-tenth part of all he possessed.
D&C 64: 23
23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.
D&C 85: 3
3 It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may tithe his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God.
These verse may help:
Alma 13: 15
15 And it was this same Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes; yea, even our father Abraham paid tithes of one-tenth part of all he possessed.
D&C 64: 23
23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.
D&C 85: 3
3 It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may tithe his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God.
- WYp8riot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1609
- Location: WYOMING
Re: Law of tithing
This is something that I have struggled with as well. However I must state that if you never have possession of the money and choice of what to do with it, such as pay tithing then in reality it is not your money or your increase.
If you have more than meets your needs after paying 10% on your increase you should do all in your power to pay additional fast offerings and more.
Thats my current position.
If you have more than meets your needs after paying 10% on your increase you should do all in your power to pay additional fast offerings and more.
Thats my current position.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 383
Re: Law of tithing
Tithing.
There are countless principles of the gospel which canbe a great blessing in our lives when we keep the spirit of the principle and the prescriptions of the principle in balance. As a bishop during tithing settlement in a ward of nearly eight hundred members from all walks of life, I found it a very interesting experience to observe what constituted a "full tithing" in the minds of the members. The scriptures and the General Handbook of Instructions are clear that tithing is "one-tenth of all their interest annually" (D&C 119:4) this is interpreted as income.Some Saints feel at peace with themselves in declaring 10 percent of their net income as tithing, while others pay 10 percent of their gross income. Some pay 10 percent on everything but Social Security and retirement investments, with the justification that they will continue to pay tithing when they begin receiving their retirement income. There are even a few folks who pay tithing on ten percent of "what's left over," a variation of the gross versus net issue.Certainly those engaged in the professions and various businesses with fixed costs for building overhead, employee wages, and so forth must arrive at some fair formula for determining an appropriate tithe. It may be advisable to consider how we would like to receive our blessings for having paid our tithes. That is to say, would we like all our blessings only after retirement, and would we like carefully calculated blessings or a more generous calculation when the "windows of heaven" are opened?Temple Interviews. The spirit and letter of temple worthiness interviews is yet another area in which balance is absolutely crucial. I recall being interviewed in the living room of a member of the stake presidency with members of his family sitting in the same room watching television. He asked me only one question: "Have you been a good kid lately?" Had there been a need for me to discuss some detailed concerns with my personal worthiness, that would certainly not have been the time nor the place. To provide some gentle guidance for priesthood leaders, the Brethren have outlined a series of more than a dozen questions which bishops and members of stake presidencies should ask their members in an assessment of personal worthiness. There are hundreds of questions which could be asked, including those addressed in Alma 5 of the Book of Mormon. They are excellent questions, but there must be a balance, and so local leaders are counseled to ask only the questions printed in the front of the temple recommend book and to refrain from asking questions beyond those prescribed. The spirit of the interview should be an opportunity for edifying and uplifting. The assessment of worthiness on the part of the common judge of Israel is a matter of vital importance. Worthiness is not synonymous with perfection, and one would hope that candidates for temple recommends become more worthy with each succeeding year. If we are not judicious, and if we do not balance mercy with justice, our interviews can be sources of frustration and discouragement rather than being inspirational and purifying experiences. "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." Whatever the outcome of any interview, the individual being interviewed should know he or she is loved by the bishop and loved of the Lord. Interviews should include expressions of gratitude and should inspire improvement.
Spencer J. Condie, In Perfect Balance, p. 103
There are countless principles of the gospel which canbe a great blessing in our lives when we keep the spirit of the principle and the prescriptions of the principle in balance. As a bishop during tithing settlement in a ward of nearly eight hundred members from all walks of life, I found it a very interesting experience to observe what constituted a "full tithing" in the minds of the members. The scriptures and the General Handbook of Instructions are clear that tithing is "one-tenth of all their interest annually" (D&C 119:4) this is interpreted as income.Some Saints feel at peace with themselves in declaring 10 percent of their net income as tithing, while others pay 10 percent of their gross income. Some pay 10 percent on everything but Social Security and retirement investments, with the justification that they will continue to pay tithing when they begin receiving their retirement income. There are even a few folks who pay tithing on ten percent of "what's left over," a variation of the gross versus net issue.Certainly those engaged in the professions and various businesses with fixed costs for building overhead, employee wages, and so forth must arrive at some fair formula for determining an appropriate tithe. It may be advisable to consider how we would like to receive our blessings for having paid our tithes. That is to say, would we like all our blessings only after retirement, and would we like carefully calculated blessings or a more generous calculation when the "windows of heaven" are opened?Temple Interviews. The spirit and letter of temple worthiness interviews is yet another area in which balance is absolutely crucial. I recall being interviewed in the living room of a member of the stake presidency with members of his family sitting in the same room watching television. He asked me only one question: "Have you been a good kid lately?" Had there been a need for me to discuss some detailed concerns with my personal worthiness, that would certainly not have been the time nor the place. To provide some gentle guidance for priesthood leaders, the Brethren have outlined a series of more than a dozen questions which bishops and members of stake presidencies should ask their members in an assessment of personal worthiness. There are hundreds of questions which could be asked, including those addressed in Alma 5 of the Book of Mormon. They are excellent questions, but there must be a balance, and so local leaders are counseled to ask only the questions printed in the front of the temple recommend book and to refrain from asking questions beyond those prescribed. The spirit of the interview should be an opportunity for edifying and uplifting. The assessment of worthiness on the part of the common judge of Israel is a matter of vital importance. Worthiness is not synonymous with perfection, and one would hope that candidates for temple recommends become more worthy with each succeeding year. If we are not judicious, and if we do not balance mercy with justice, our interviews can be sources of frustration and discouragement rather than being inspirational and purifying experiences. "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." Whatever the outcome of any interview, the individual being interviewed should know he or she is loved by the bishop and loved of the Lord. Interviews should include expressions of gratitude and should inspire improvement.
Spencer J. Condie, In Perfect Balance, p. 103
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5560
- Location: American Fork, Utah
Re: Law of tithing
Beautiful quote.
We used to pay on net, and then our bishop stated, do you want net blessings or gross blessings, and so we changed what we were doing. It takes faith, and sacrifice. In fact, if you don't feel that you are giving enough that it is a sacrifice, then give a little more. If giving the 10% of gross is a sacrifice then do that. The law of sacrifice is very powerful.
We struggle to give to anything else other then tithing, but do it because it is a struggle.
We used to pay on net, and then our bishop stated, do you want net blessings or gross blessings, and so we changed what we were doing. It takes faith, and sacrifice. In fact, if you don't feel that you are giving enough that it is a sacrifice, then give a little more. If giving the 10% of gross is a sacrifice then do that. The law of sacrifice is very powerful.
We struggle to give to anything else other then tithing, but do it because it is a struggle.
- WYp8riot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1609
- Location: WYOMING
Re: Law of tithing
." Whatever the outcome of any interview, the individual being interviewed should know he or she is loved by the bishop and loved of the Lord.
I have had a few interviews where I knew the Bishop was biased and not representing me but rather preconditioned garbage from another that wasnt even a member of the ward. Then there was an instance of a baishop giving advise to my wife that didnt support family unity. He hadnt done as required and heard both sides of the story and more than that avoided me when I had attempted to contact him to discuss my concerns. Anyway It has been a struggle for me to put up with Bishop betrayal from a few bishops who have been decieved by the ex.
I testify that I know the gospel is true, but I as Pres Hinkley stated, the Church was perfect until we were all put in it.
I have had a few interviews where I knew the Bishop was biased and not representing me but rather preconditioned garbage from another that wasnt even a member of the ward. Then there was an instance of a baishop giving advise to my wife that didnt support family unity. He hadnt done as required and heard both sides of the story and more than that avoided me when I had attempted to contact him to discuss my concerns. Anyway It has been a struggle for me to put up with Bishop betrayal from a few bishops who have been decieved by the ex.
I testify that I know the gospel is true, but I as Pres Hinkley stated, the Church was perfect until we were all put in it.
- WYp8riot
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1609
- Location: WYOMING
Re: Law of tithing
I plan to work on my tithing issue as my new years resolution. How ever I do still believe that Money you never see or have controll of is not increase and if I were bishop unless told otherwise by church leadership I would not ask anyone to pay on what I didnt feel was their increase. However I would expect that we all should be greatfull to do all we can financially to do more than just tithing. I for one know that if and when at times I do have a little to donate that the church is the most trustworthy charitable organization.
I also feel that more detrimnental top the church than the net gross issue is the more well to do members that could give more but rather have excess homes, recreational activities, toys and other modern day idols.
-Paul
I also feel that more detrimnental top the church than the net gross issue is the more well to do members that could give more but rather have excess homes, recreational activities, toys and other modern day idols.
-Paul
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- captain of 1,000
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 383
Re: Law of tithing
Well said Moroni
If we are quibbling over gross and net, what makes us think we can live the law of consecration?
If we are quibbling over gross and net, what makes us think we can live the law of consecration?
- pjbrownie
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3070
- Location: Mount Pleasant, Utah
Re: Law of tithing
I'm just as interested in the frequency of tithing. Do we pay it every month, every time we have a paycheck, dividends, or annually. I had BYU professors that had payroll income dividend income, investments, rents, and net worth increases (that weren't necessarily liquid). They then made one single donation once a year to the Church, often in the form of a stock or bond that the Church could cash itself or keep as an investment.
As people gain more wealth, income is a very very nebulous topic. Does net worth county, property valuation assessments?
I think because of this, at the end of the day, it really is the lower law of God's money system, we value it the best we know how, and wait for the higher law at a later date.
As people gain more wealth, income is a very very nebulous topic. Does net worth county, property valuation assessments?
I think because of this, at the end of the day, it really is the lower law of God's money system, we value it the best we know how, and wait for the higher law at a later date.
- Bircher
- captain of 100
- Posts: 909
- Location: Utah
- ldsff
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1924
Re: Law of tithing
[quote="pjbrownie"]I'm just as interested in the frequency of tithing. quote]
I like my money as soon as it is owed to me, why would not God want the same thing?
I like my money as soon as it is owed to me, why would not God want the same thing?
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- Level 34 Illuminated
- Posts: 5560
- Location: American Fork, Utah
Re: Law of tithing
It is annual increase, but I prefer to pay every time I get paid so that I am not overwhelmed at the end of the year.
D&C 119: 4
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
D&C 119: 4
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
- Bircher
- captain of 100
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- Location: Utah
Re: Law of tithing
Proud 2b Peculiar wrote:
D&C 119: 4
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
We know that tithing will not be the law forever, does that mean that forever does not really mean forever in the scriptures?
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- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: American Fork, Utah
Re: Law of tithing
Interesting. Maybe even with giving all our excess, we still will give 10% of our increase... interesting thought.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 383
Re: Law of tithing
There is a Celestial meaning to tithing that I do not totally understand. It goes beyond the basic tithing principle we hear in Church. It applies to eternity, in all things. I wish I knew enough about it, to explain more, but I do not.
- pjbrownie
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3070
- Location: Mount Pleasant, Utah
Re: Law of tithing
Yeah I read that article. Bro. Stone is a bit vacuous though - no mention of "no poor among us" or how we are supposed to follow the "law of consecration" in Babylon. It was more of a spiritual concept of living like Zion now, not much mention of the temporal laws of Zions. I would love the live the law of consecration, but I deeded all of my property to the Bishop, he would think I was crazy, and would probably deed it back to me. Perhaps this is what I need to do - when I do own a house - which is probably 40 years down the road with this economy.
I think living the law of consecration means we are willing to live the law of consecration and live it to the best of our ability (with our time, talents, and also donations in kind as we can afford it, and it should hurt a bit or we're not giving enough).
- pjbrownie
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 3070
- Location: Mount Pleasant, Utah
Re: Law of tithing
I did have the same thoughts about frequency, however. What if you lost all of your assets and at the end of the year couldn't pay a full tithe? Best to do it at least monthly.
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- captain of 100
- Posts: 383
Re: Law of tithing
My personal feeling about tithing is: We owe all we have to the Lord, our lives, each breath we take, our belongings, our labor, our families.......everything. All he asks is 1/10th. That is all 1/10th. We get to keep 9/10th. 9/10th of our labor, belongings, family, time, ....9/10th of everything! I am not going to hold back His one tenth of anything! It is all His anyway.
I do not think Abraham separated the sheep he used for clothing, or every cow he used to pull the plow, or every pot he had to use for cooking, or every tax he had to pay, into one pile,.......and then paid tithing on the rest. It does not make a bit of sense to me.
If everything we are and have belongs to the Lord and we are still "unprofitable servants", why wouldnt we give a tenth of all we possess to Him.
At one point in the future we will have to stand before Him and make an accounting of our tithing. He will ask us if it was an "honest tithing". I do not think we are going to feel like rationalizing why we paid net instead of Gross. I personally want to be able to say, "I have paid a tenth of all thou didst give unto me".
I do not think Abraham separated the sheep he used for clothing, or every cow he used to pull the plow, or every pot he had to use for cooking, or every tax he had to pay, into one pile,.......and then paid tithing on the rest. It does not make a bit of sense to me.
If everything we are and have belongs to the Lord and we are still "unprofitable servants", why wouldnt we give a tenth of all we possess to Him.
At one point in the future we will have to stand before Him and make an accounting of our tithing. He will ask us if it was an "honest tithing". I do not think we are going to feel like rationalizing why we paid net instead of Gross. I personally want to be able to say, "I have paid a tenth of all thou didst give unto me".
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- Minion
- Posts: 1062
- Location: Idaho
Re: Law of tithing
threepercentite wrote:actually, for the enlightened, tithing is now 12.5%.
10% is enduring, 12.5% is magnifying.
Oh yeah. Us higher law living people have been doing this for years.
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- captain of 1,000
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Re: Law of tithing
What really is the test NOT some definaition of tithing is how much one gives to Fast Offering. You see this is a sure test of whether one is willing to live the FULL Law of Consecration. No upper limit to what can be given and totally goes to help the less fortunate. IMO, a minimum of 2% of net income is the beggining of real giving.