Mysteries of the Kingdom

[freedomforall]

I let my testimony and knowledge stand as witness against false doctrine such as the Adam-God doctrine, doctrine not found anywhere in the panoply of scripture, yet is twisted and cherry picked to the point that true doctrine is no longer recognized. It, the Adam-God doctrine, is deceiving, not corroborated by scriptural facts or worth internalizing.
It matters not how much you rail me, call me names or attempt to belittle my intelligence, ie; calling me to repentance and calling me ignorant and damning me to hell. These tactics are typical with those believing in Adam-God, used for that very purpose in order to weaken the resolve of others. My testimony and scripture postings stand as a solid wall that you cannot, and will not break through. So if you prefer to continue railing me, go for it. Enjoy your mind game.

Who knows, you might even become a legend in your own mind.

PS Don't confuse retreating from disjointed incoherency and narcissistic fortitude with running away to hide. Huge difference. Even missionaries know when to back off, and they are not going anywhere to hide. They merely see that talking to some people is an utter, near useless, exertion.
I have proven you wrong on many fronts, yet it has become a fruitless effort.

Matt 13:13-15
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I let my testimony and knowledge stand as witness against false doctrine such as the Adam-God doctrine, doctrine not found anywhere in the panoply of scripture, yet is twisted and cherry picked to the point that true doctrine is no longer recognized. It, the Adam-God doctrine, is deceiving, not corroborated by scriptural facts or worth internalizing.
It matters not how much you rail me, call me names or attempt to belittle my intelligence, ie; calling me to repentance and calling me ignorant and damning me to hell. These tactics are typical with those believing in Adam-God, used for that very purpose in order to weaken the resolve of others. My testimony and scripture postings stand as a solid wall that you cannot, and will not break through. So if you prefer to continue railing me, go for it. Enjoy your mind game.

Who knows, you might even become a legend in your own mind.

PS Don't confuse retreating from disjointed incoherency and narcissistic fortitude with running away to hide. Huge difference. Even missionaries know when to back off, and they are not going anywhere to hide. They merely see that talking to some people is an utter, near useless, exertion.
I have proven you wrong on many fronts, yet it has become a fruitless effort.

Matt 13:13-15
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

And you continue to bare false witness against me. The Doctrine was taught by all the prophets of the restoration.
It is contained within the canonized scripture, I have shown that that and freedom for all has not and cannot refute
that with any credibility.

But I will tell you all, do not take my word for anything, do not take freedomforall's word for anything. Study the scriptures,
study the writings of Joseph, Brigham, et al. Petition the Lord to know the truth while and after you do your studying.
Come to your own knowledge and testimony. And if and when tou accept this Doctrine, other amazing truths will be opened
to you.

[freedomforall]

D&C 129:2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

At that moment in time Jesus was the type of being called 'Angel' one who was resurrected and had a body of flesh and bone.. see verse D&C 129:1 but before that he was mortal and before his MORTAL BIRTH he was a spirit just as Hidingbehindmyhandle pointed out in the Book of Ether.

I fully agree with what you say here, I merely do not like the way Hidingbehindmyhandle gloats and calls names in order to get a point across. And if that point does not agree with scripture, I will call him out on it.

Yes, Jehovah spoke to the brother of Jared and told him he was viewing his, Jehovah's, Spirit body.
Yes, Jehovah came to earth as he told the brother of Jared and took himself a body by the name of Jesus, and was a mortal man.
Yes, Jesus was slain on the cross and then was resurrected, being the very first man, even before Adam and Eve in being resurrected, which gives Him preeminence over all. He was then an immortal man, having flesh and bones, yet no blood.

Colossians 1:18
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

This means Christ/Jehovah has superiority over all mankind.

Firstborn in Spirit
Only begotten in the flesh
First to rise from the dead
The only being capable of having blood come from his pores
He is the only way back to the Father
He is our creator
This earth is his footstool

He has all preeminence. (Superiority)

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

freedomforall, you once posted that you were not going to participate in this topic but you are still here.
Then you said that I was on your ignore list and not to talk to you because you would not be listening.
Yet you respond to my post after that declaration. When will you keep your promise.

Michael is The Archangel - indisputable
Angels are exalted immortal resurrected beings with beings with bodies of flesh and bones (D&C 129:1) - indisputable
the Arch prefix means the prototype, best example of or hear or top
Michael is the head resurrected immortal exalted being with a body of flesh and bones - indisputable
One cannot achieve being a resurrected immortal exalted being with a body of flesh and bones without
entering the everlasting covenant of marriage.
Angels ARE married. Again, your claim proven false. Just like all your claims.

It is not I who is confused, I know the the teachings of the true messengers from The Father, the prophets of the
restoration. And have proven them in harmony with canonized scripture.

So, please keep the two promises you made, be a man of your word.
Take the advice of Dr. Phil's father, never miss an opportunity to shut up, specially when you know not of what you speak.

Remember the old adage, It is better to remain silent and thought a fool that to speak and remove all doubt.
So, keep all that pride you have and keep your word.

[freedomforall]

2 Nephi 19:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Mosiah 7:27
27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth—

2 Ne. 26:12
12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Alma 11:39 (38–39, 44)
38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Spirit of God

[freedomforall]

Read D&C 109 and see who is being addressed as Father. Go on, let curiosity sway and prod to find out. Come on, go for it.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I fully agree with what you say here, I merely do not like the way Hidingbehindmyhandle gloats and calls names in order to get a point across. And if that point does not agree with scripture, I will call him out on it.

what you don't like is that I have proven what I say, both with the writings of Joseph, Brigham et all
and with the scriptures. you don't like that you have not driven me off like you have others.
And you are ashamed that an ancestor of yours believed and taught this doctrine.

It is your language that is full of hate, anger and false witnesses.

So, be a man of your word, go away.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Read D&C 109 and see who is being addressed as Father. Go on, let curiosity sway and prod to find out. Come on, go for it.

Your behavior is that of those that tried to trap Jesus with a question.

It is your topic, you tell me, then I will tell you whether I agree or not.

But you are still not a man of your word.
You still reply to me, you don't keep your word to ignore me.
Now you are trying to trap me.

You are like apostates who leave the church but won't leave it be.
You leave the truth but you won't leave it be.

Your own actions testify against you.

[freedomforall]

Hiding behind my handle, And you said I was running to hide. The pot calling the kettle black, again?

BTW, did I tell you you're on my list of names whereby I no longer have to read name calling, intelligence belittling or whatever? That's not hiding, rather, it is wisdom and smartness. It also helps in hampering my emotions, in providing a higher level of restraint. Additionally, it causes the guilty party to have a one sided conversation. Neat, huh?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

2 Nephi 19:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Mosiah 7:27
27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth—

2 Ne. 26:12
12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Alma 11:39 (38–39, 44)
38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Spirit of God

What is your point here?
What is it that you want us to know/beleive?
Or are you asking me to explain it because you are confused?
You have to tell us, just quoting scriptures doesn't convey what you are thinking/want.

[freedomforall]

Christ is our God, our creator, our Savior, our Eternal Father and our Prince of Peace.
Christ was/is the very first man to be resurrected, even before Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve did die, or God would have been a liar, when he said, in that day ye eat the fruit thereof, ye shall surely die. So Adam and Eve were in the ground for many, many years until Christ brought about the resurrection, he being the first to rise. This is also when all the righteous prior to Christ was resurrected as well. The wicked still remain under ground until the day of redemption. It's in the book!

Adam is not our Heavenly Father. Adam is the father of all mankind as mortal beings. In other words, we can call him great grandfather, many times removed.

Many members of the church obtain a copy of their "Priesthood Line of Authority" straight back to the Savior

Request Priesthood Line of Authority.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Hiding behind my handle, And you said I was running to hide. The pot calling the kettle black, again?

BTW, did I tell you you're on my list of names whereby I no longer have to read name calling, intelligence belittling or whatever? That's not hiding, rather, it is wisdom and smartness. It also helps in hampering my emotions, in providing a higher level of restraint. Additionally, it causes the guilty party to have a one sided conversation. Neat, huh?

Hidingbehindmyhandle is just a comment that very few use their real name. Other lists I belong to, eveyone uses their real names, first and last.
Here, very few do, including freedomforall. You are hiding behind your handle, I'm just brutally honest about it.

The rest of your post, it is nonsense. I'm wondering if your residence is in those big buildings owned by the state down by the water park in Provo.
I'm not sure exactly where they are, I bet you could tell me.

You said you were going to ignore me, I was so excited, but again your claim has been proven false.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Christ is our God, our creator, our Savior, our Eternal Father and our Prince of Peace.
Christ was/is the very first man to be resurrected, even before Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve did die, or God would have been a liar, when he said, in that day ye eat the fruit thereof, ye shall surely die. So Adam and Eve were in the ground for many, many years until Christ brought about the resurrection, he being the first to rise. This is also when all the righteous prior to Christ was resurrected as well. The wicked still remain under ground until the day of redemption. It's in the book!

Adam is not our Heavenly Father. Adam is the father of all mankind as mortal beings. In other words, we can call him great grandfather, many times removed.

Many members of the church obtain a copy of their "Priesthood Line of Authority" straight back to the Savior

Request Priesthood Line of Authority.

Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, ... all teach otherwise.
John Taylor pretty much says that Joseph Smith is second to Christ.
No testimony of yours, no matter how adamant or oft repeated, trumps the testimony of the Holy Ghost.

[freedomforall]

Resurrection

The reuniting of the spirit body with the physical body of flesh and bones after death. After resurrection, the spirit and body will never again be separated, and the person will become immortal. Every person born on earth will be resurrected because Jesus Christ overcame death (1 Cor. 15:20–22).

Jesus Christ was the first person to be resurrected on this earth (Acts 26:23; Col. 1:18; Rev. 1:5). The New Testament gives ample evidence that Jesus rose with His physical body: His tomb was empty, He ate fish and honey, He had a body of flesh and bones, people touched Him, and the angels said He had risen (Mark 16:1–6; Luke 24:1–12, 36–43; John 20:1–18). Latter-day revelation confirms the reality of the Resurrection of Christ and of all mankind (Alma 11:40–45; 40; 3 Ne. 11:1–17; D&C 76; Moses 7:62).

All people will not be resurrected to the same glory (1 Cor. 15:39–42; D&C 76:89–98), nor will all be resurrected at the same time (1 Cor. 15:22–23; Alma 40:8; D&C 76:64–65, 85; 88:96–102). Many Saints were resurrected after Christ’s Resurrection (Matt. 27:52). The righteous will be resurrected before the wicked and will come forth in the First Resurrection (1 Thes. 4:16); the unrepentant sinners will come forth in the last resurrection (Rev. 20:5–13; D&C 76:85).

Matt 27:50-53
50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

[freedomforall]

Who has read D&C 109 and discovered who the Father being addressed is?

[freedomforall]

Eph 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Cor. 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

3 Nephi 11:27
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

Galatians 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

And, btw, that quote earlier that you use to say that Joseph Smith was claiming to be greater than Jesus Christ,

What Joseph was referring to is that when Christ died, the church left him. All the twelve went back to their
previous lives. He had to go round them up again.

While some individuals close to Joseph left the church (and some later returned), the twelve never abandoned him,
even when he and Hyrum died. That is all that is about, nothing more. He never claimed to be greater that Christ as you say.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Who has read D&C 109 and discovered who the Father being addressed is?

You obviously have, stop playing games and just tell us your point.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Eph 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Cor. 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

3 Nephi 11:27
27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

Galatians 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Again, your point is...?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

D&C 129:2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

At that moment in time Jesus was the type of being called 'Angel' one who was resurrected and had a body of flesh and bone.. see verse D&C 129:1 but before that he was mortal and before his MORTAL BIRTH he was a spirit just as Hidingbehindmyhandle pointed out in the Book of Ether.

You've got that right, and he was married then also, he had at least two wives.

[harakim]

Who is the father in D&C 109? It looks like it could be referring to Jesus.

"I have shown that Joseph and Brigham has said that Adam is The Father of our spirits and The physical father of Christ." I have read a lot of this post and it seems like you have done a lot of research on this topic. I have followed most of the things you have been saying, but I don't remember being shown that Joseph and Brigham said Adam is the father of our Spirits. Can you repost those scriptures?

Thanks

[freedomforall]

What? No takers for reading D&C 109 and reporting as to whom the Father is being addressed? It certainly is not Michael/Adam

Speaking of Michael, is he mentioned here as being God or a leader of an army of angels? Who is this God and his Christ?

JST, Revelation 12:6,7
6 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michael;
7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.

Really! Does Michael have several roles, two of either being A Chief Prince, apparently one of many, or is he Father, God?

Daniel 10:13,21
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael (Adam), one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth: No one supports me against them (Persia and Grecia, which is Macedonia) except Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1
In the last days, Michael will deliver Israel from their troubles—
1 And at that time shall Michael (Adam) stand up, the great prince who has charge over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Adam will come and be seated at Adam-ondi-Ahman, and Jesus will come down in the clouds and greet him. Then Jesus will take over the saints and reign for a thousand years. The Ancient of Days is not God The Father. He is a Chief Prince over the Lord's people.

Dan. 7:22 (13, 22)
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man (Jesus Christ) came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days (Adam), and they brought him (Jesus) near before him (Adam).
22 Until the Ancient of days (Adam) came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High (God The Father); and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

D&C 27:116
1 Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman, because, said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days (Adam )shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

Read carefully. Who is the one presenting the keys of salvation to Adam? If Adam were God the Father he would have had them already.

D&C 78:16
16 Who hath appointed Michael your prince, and established his feet, and set him upon high, and given unto him the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One, who is without beginning of days or end of life.

[freedomforall]

Who is the father in D&C 109? It looks like it could be referring to Jesus. Close, real close...It is Jehovah.

"I have shown that Joseph and Brigham has said that Adam is The Father of our spirits and The physical father of Christ." I have read a lot of this post and it seems like you have done a lot of research on this topic. I have followed most of the things you have been saying, but I don't remember being shown that Joseph and Brigham said Adam is the father of our Spirits. Can you repost those scriptures?

Thanks

Actually, there are no scriptures making such claims. This info comes from the Journal of Discourses, which are full of interesting doctrinal information but lack basic, firm, foundational proof relating to the Adam-God doctrine. The claims therein are not corroborated by canon and are concluded as being an anomaly. The whole idea presented is against the whole panoply of scripture and makes a mockery of the Godhead.
Some here will argue to the contrary, so my humble advice is to read the four standard works as many times as it takes to get a clear understanding of the Godhead and how the chain of command works or is structured. Pray and ask God if this doctrine is worth seeking after, instead of merely taking another person's word for it. A testimony of the true doctrine, whatever that is, will carry you to greater heights of understanding and a surer faith, ie; light and knowledge. This advice even applies to my postings. God will give you truth and light that only you can acquire through prayer and humility on your own.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

“Is there in the heaven of heavens a leader? Yes, and we cannot do without one and that being the case, whoever this is may be called God. Joseph said that Adam was our Father and God” (Brigham Young, Journal History, May 14, 1876, Church Archives)

“While it is in all probability true that the gospels were originally written in Aramaic, it is even more certain that the New Testament is based upon an Old Testament-Hebraic culture and religion. This being the case, it is most significant that in the Hebrew language the word for man is Adam, hence in the some odd 84 passages in the gospels when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, it can be taken quite literally as a claim on Jesus' part that he was the son of Adam.” (The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Volume 3, pg. 327)

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

[freedomforall]

Prov 3:5,6
5 ¶ Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Mosiah 23:14
14 And also trust no one to be your teacher nor your minister, except he be a man of God, walking in his ways and keeping his commandments.

Jer. 9:4
4 Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.


As Prov 3 points out, we shouldn't even trust what we think we know, without asking God for confirmation and having the Holy Ghost burn that confirmation on our hearts.

Let's face truth here, Joseph and Brigham could have been wrong.

And forum members? Who are these people anyway? Are they teaching truth or their own opinions backed by cherry picked verses? What are their absolute beliefs? Where did their beliefs come from? Are their sources reliable? Do they have the welfare of Zion in their heart and mind? Are they Fundamentalists pretending to be orthodox Mormons? Are they an apostate pretending to be temple worthy? Are they a temple recommend holder with a deep rooted hate for church leaders? Are they humble? Are they kind and respectful? Are they a sheep in wolves clothing? Are their fruits something to aspire to? Or are they like a pretty piece of fruit on the outside and a rotten core inside?

Yep, Prov 3:5,6 says a lot.