LDS Freedom Forum

Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

Whomever is feeling this despair I hope you know you are loved. In my own dark hours I have felt his love when I become his hands and voice for others in need.

Red wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 10:39 pm Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

In dark times of my own I have wondered the same thing. What I have learned in life so far is that we do not often see how He was there for us until we look back. I really like the footprints poem where it states that when we felt alone and no one was there it is then that He carried us.

I can testify that this is true. It is so hard to bear some of the burdens we get in life but know that as we continue to live the strength to do that at times comes from God. We have all been there to some degree that we don't have the human strength or emotional strength to continue, it is then that we are given strength to bear it and wake up the next day. It doesn't feel like it, I know but He does give us strength beyond our own to continue. Some burden are not lifted but we are given strength to bear them, I know this to be true.

If Christ could save just one soul he would have still given his life for that one person. When you feel so bad and worthless remember that you are so very loved by God.

Anyone who feels like suicide is the only answer I would tell them it does get better, the intense feelings do subside and the sun does shine again. It does! Hang on to the good memories and good feelings you have had, you are loved and you are powerful beyond measure and you are magnificent just the way you are. It is true, you are an amazing soul and worth everything.

One of my children was having a major issue with this and when they brought it to my attention I recalled a study I had read only a week or two before. I compared their symptoms to the descriptions of 3 different states and solutions. I decided on a product called SAMe (S-Adenosyl methionine) and they started it. Within a week they were a changed person, far less moody and stable at happy. It really has made quite a difference.

Everyone has people that love them and would be devastated by that decision. Love is the best tender mercy of all. The love of self and of others. Hang in there, never give up.

MMbelieve wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:15 pm

Red wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 10:39 pm Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

In dark times of my own I have wondered the same thing. What I have learned in life so far is that we do not often see how He was there for us until we look back. I really like the footprints poem where it states that when we felt alone and no one was there it is then that He carried us.

I can testify that this is true. It is so hard to bear some of the burdens we get in life but know that as we continue to live the strength to do that at times comes from God. We have all been there to some degree that we don't have the human strength or emotional strength to continue, it is then that we are given strength to bear it and wake up the next day. It doesn't feel like it, I know but He does give us strength beyond our own to continue. Some burden are not lifted but we are given strength to bear them, I know this to be true.

If Christ could save just one soul he would have still given his life for that one person. When you feel so bad and worthless remember that you are so very loved by God.

Anyone who feels like suicide is the only answer I would tell them it does get better, the intense feelings do subside and the sun does shine again. It does! Hang on to the good memories and good feelings you have had, you are loved and you are powerful beyond measure and you are magnificent just the way you are. It is true, you are an amazing soul and worth everything.

Speaking of the "Footprints in the Sand" poem; a cute sister in our ward gave a talk recently. She had been experiencing her own troubles in the past. She mentioned that poem and something to the effect that it's not how it happens. You see when we get to those hard times in our lives rather than one set of footprints, there are many scattered about....Christ's, family, friends, neighbors, Visiting teachers, home teachers, bishop, etc. You get the picture. They all help carry and get us through tough times. There are SO many people out there willing to help who really do care. All one has to do sometimes is just reach out. I chastise myself because sometimes I feel like my spouse should know or read my mind when I'm having troubles. But he can't. I have to speak up.

Remember Elder Hollands speech a couple of years ago about depression? It was a good one. He also gave this great speech for a BYU devotional in 1980. This is a good one, called For Times of Trouble.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/jeffrey- ... s-trouble/

NEVER give up. :ymhug:

kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 21st, 2017, 9:03 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:15 pm

Red wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 10:39 pm Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

In dark times of my own I have wondered the same thing. What I have learned in life so far is that we do not often see how He was there for us until we look back. I really like the footprints poem where it states that when we felt alone and no one was there it is then that He carried us.

I can testify that this is true. It is so hard to bear some of the burdens we get in life but know that as we continue to live the strength to do that at times comes from God. We have all been there to some degree that we don't have the human strength or emotional strength to continue, it is then that we are given strength to bear it and wake up the next day. It doesn't feel like it, I know but He does give us strength beyond our own to continue. Some burden are not lifted but we are given strength to bear them, I know this to be true.

If Christ could save just one soul he would have still given his life for that one person. When you feel so bad and worthless remember that you are so very loved by God.

Anyone who feels like suicide is the only answer I would tell them it does get better, the intense feelings do subside and the sun does shine again. It does! Hang on to the good memories and good feelings you have had, you are loved and you are powerful beyond measure and you are magnificent just the way you are. It is true, you are an amazing soul and worth everything.

Speaking of the "Footprints in the Sand" poem; a cute sister in our ward gave a talk recently. She had been experiencing her own troubles in the past. She mentioned that poem and something to the effect that it's not how it happens. You see when we get to those hard times in our lives rather than one set of footprints, there are many scattered about....Christ's, family, friends, neighbors, Visiting teachers, home teachers, bishop, etc. You get the picture. They all help carry and get us through tough times. There are SO many people out there willing to help who really do care. All one has to do sometimes is just reach out. I chastise myself because sometimes I feel like my spouse should know or read my mind when I'm having troubles. But he can't. I have to speak up.

Remember Elder Hollands speech a couple of years ago about depression? It was a good one. He also gave this great speech for a BYU devotional in 1980. This is a good one, called For Times of Trouble.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/jeffrey- ... s-trouble/

NEVER give up. :ymhug:

Yes you are correct, but often times when one feels that bad, they do not reach out for help from others. When you feel suicidal and hopeless, you feel ashamed for those feelings and withdraw from others. So you are correct but it often does take others to see people's troubles and offer help. The shame is hard to deal with and you do feel very alone.
Perhaps this is why home teachers and visiting teachers are important.

kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 21st, 2017, 9:03 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:15 pm

Red wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 10:39 pm Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

In dark times of my own I have wondered the same thing. What I have learned in life so far is that we do not often see how He was there for us until we look back. I really like the footprints poem where it states that when we felt alone and no one was there it is then that He carried us.

I can testify that this is true. It is so hard to bear some of the burdens we get in life but know that as we continue to live the strength to do that at times comes from God. We have all been there to some degree that we don't have the human strength or emotional strength to continue, it is then that we are given strength to bear it and wake up the next day. It doesn't feel like it, I know but He does give us strength beyond our own to continue. Some burden are not lifted but we are given strength to bear them, I know this to be true.

If Christ could save just one soul he would have still given his life for that one person. When you feel so bad and worthless remember that you are so very loved by God.

Anyone who feels like suicide is the only answer I would tell them it does get better, the intense feelings do subside and the sun does shine again. It does! Hang on to the good memories and good feelings you have had, you are loved and you are powerful beyond measure and you are magnificent just the way you are. It is true, you are an amazing soul and worth everything.

Speaking of the "Footprints in the Sand" poem; a cute sister in our ward gave a talk recently. She had been experiencing her own troubles in the past. She mentioned that poem and something to the effect that it's not how it happens. You see when we get to those hard times in our lives rather than one set of footprints, there are many scattered about....Christ's, family, friends, neighbors, Visiting teachers, home teachers, bishop, etc. You get the picture. They all help carry and get us through tough times. There are SO many people out there willing to help who really do care. All one has to do sometimes is just reach out. I chastise myself because sometimes I feel like my spouse should know or read my mind when I'm having troubles. But he can't. I have to speak up.

Remember Elder Hollands speech a couple of years ago about depression? It was a good one. He also gave this great speech for a BYU devotional in 1980. This is a good one, called For Times of Trouble.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/jeffrey- ... s-trouble/

NEVER give up. :ymhug:

I read that article. Thank you for sharing it.

There have been two times in my life I was truly suicidal. The first I actually attempted, it was caused by a medication. The second was severe post partum depression. I want to tell you my experience because it changed the way I view depression and suicide. When I attempted it I realized that when we have those thoughts we're not in our right mind. It was like being surrounded by darkness and even though we know what we're doing,
we don't "get" it. I felt nothing but compassion for my friends and family who suffered with it after that. The second time was less acute. I had the occasional thought, but nothing too serious. Then one night, out of the blue, I was plagued by suicidal thoughts. It was like a compulsion and I really thought I was going to give in. I begged the Lord for help and I got the distinct impression there was a evil spirit that was feeding these thoughts into my mind and it needed to be cast out. The process of casting it out was truly sacred for me. I see that as a tender mercy. It didn't cure my depression, but I recognized that Satan loves to exploit our physical ailments. And that it is NOT our fault. I kept that in mind on difficult days and I felt less alone. I couldn't always feel the spirit, but knowing who was actually responsible for these thoughts helped. I guess I felt a little less broken.
My heart goes out to any with this struggle.

Technical difficulties (a.k.a. toddler interference)

kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 21st, 2017, 9:03 pm

MMbelieve wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:15 pm

Red wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 10:39 pm Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

In dark times of my own I have wondered the same thing. What I have learned in life so far is that we do not often see how He was there for us until we look back. I really like the footprints poem where it states that when we felt alone and no one was there it is then that He carried us.

I can testify that this is true. It is so hard to bear some of the burdens we get in life but know that as we continue to live the strength to do that at times comes from God. We have all been there to some degree that we don't have the human strength or emotional strength to continue, it is then that we are given strength to bear it and wake up the next day. It doesn't feel like it, I know but He does give us strength beyond our own to continue. Some burden are not lifted but we are given strength to bear them, I know this to be true.

If Christ could save just one soul he would have still given his life for that one person. When you feel so bad and worthless remember that you are so very loved by God.

Anyone who feels like suicide is the only answer I would tell them it does get better, the intense feelings do subside and the sun does shine again. It does! Hang on to the good memories and good feelings you have had, you are loved and you are powerful beyond measure and you are magnificent just the way you are. It is true, you are an amazing soul and worth everything.

Speaking of the "Footprints in the Sand" poem; a cute sister in our ward gave a talk recently. She had been experiencing her own troubles in the past. She mentioned that poem and something to the effect that it's not how it happens. You see when we get to those hard times in our lives rather than one set of footprints, there are many scattered about....Christ's, family, friends, neighbors, Visiting teachers, home teachers, bishop, etc. You get the picture. They all help carry and get us through tough times. There are SO many people out there willing to help who really do care. All one has to do sometimes is just reach out. I chastise myself because sometimes I feel like my spouse should know or read my mind when I'm having troubles. But he can't. I have to speak up.

Remember Elder Hollands speech a couple of years ago about depression? It was a good one. He also gave this great speech for a BYU devotional in 1980. This is a good one, called For Times of Trouble.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/jeffrey- ... s-trouble/

NEVER give up. :ymhug:

I don't want to be contrary or pessimistic but I do want to point out that often when we are depressed, it is because the people around us are dragging us down. I have had to learn through hard experience to keep certain family members at a distance for my own mental health. I've had to learn to overcome the destructive thought processes that I was raised with. I don't want to make it sound like we aren't responsible for our own happiness--we are responsible for the people we choose to associate with. But I do want to point out that if you don't feel like the people around you are lifting you up, you aren't alone and you shouldn't be ashamed or despondent at that realization. If you do find yourself with a support system of negative people, then Christ is the one who will carry you through and he will help you surround yourself with more positive, supportive people. It's when you are in those types of situations that Christ carries you alone.

Life is far from easy. We are up against it with a countless barrage of opposition to intensify the difficulty of life. This second estate also known as a veil of sorrows in the scriptures is one swift kick in the hind-end more often than not. Surviving Battleground "mortal probation" is entirely impossible without the goodness of Jesus in our life . Unless we've been lulled away and are at ease in Zion-- we can be rest assured that we will have our fair share of Heartache, hardship, temptation, grief, and sorrows, etc. It's amazing to think of Christ being a Man of Sorrows acquainted with grief... can you imagine being infused with absolute truth resulting in knowing clearly how thick and pervasive and evil this fallen existence really is? Makes me think of Nephi in 2 Nephi chapter 4. This righteous man was anything but asleep. He was fully awake and had received the choicest blessings in this gospel to include even the second comforter at the time this chapter was written-- yet he lamented in his condition with the difficulty of sin by the temptations he was afflicted with because of the weakness of his flesh. The solutions he was inspired to offer himself and all those who would read his words are so key to overcoming life's despondencies...

I remember waking after a very difficult nights worth of sleep two years ago from a horrible horrible nightmare. I cried out to God asking why I would be permitted to be afflicted the way I was in this very bad dream. I knew clearly that it was inspired by satanic forces. Pleading to God in my heart upon awakening and wanting to understand--- a very clear and peaceful voice came to my mind and it said simply "do not give it life" I went from array of thoughts and wrong feelings in my heart and mind ( even though I knew who inspired the dream) as to why I received the nightmare that I did--- too-- you're good don't worry about it. go forward. Focus on who you know God knows you are. Focus on his love for you. This because I was told by Heaven not to give life to these difficulties. Christ more so than anybody understood how to navigate the morass of earth life. His burdens were made light his difficulty made so much more easy because of the Father... We have a ton of reason to be yoked to Jesus so that he might make our burdens easy and light that we might have a growing beautiful rest and peace to our souls as we do yoke up to him. Love and great great Hope for all of us as we to the best of our given abilities "feel after Jesus" :ymhug:

Red wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 10:39 pm Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

The Lord allows it so society looks at itself and realizes that something is terribly wrong. One person in the comments of a z3news article said that the Lord had told warned them that if we continued with the public school system and the way it forces kids and controls them, that the suicide rates will go way up.

I myself have had many suicide programs from satanic ritual abuse. There is no way a person is guilty for suicide if they were 'programmed' like that.

God doesn't think like us. He is kind, rational, and smart. He isn't going to leave any of His children behind in the end but these things do happen. It is terribly sad and we need to blame society for not making this world worth living in, and use these tragedies to make the world a better place. The person who does commit suicide is not the one at fault. Some people will go through hard things after they die, but it will be ok and the Lord is always there ready to embrace them when they are ready to receive it.

The one who is tempted, I would be willing to privately talk about it and offer my support. Usually people in this situation have a lot of potential to help others if they can get through the pain. I also just did a video on nutrition to help the emotions. My blog is www.juliebucker.com.

I did to a blog post on suicidal thoughts. It is a little old and needs to be re-written with a little more compassion and insight; but here it is:http://www.juliebucker.com/julie-bucker ... of-suicide

Red wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 10:39 pm Where are the Lord's tender mercies for those tempted by suicide? The uncompassionate need not respond.

I like the idea of many footprints. God and many are there with tender mercies, but sometimes, I'm looking down instead of around. You are loved and not alone.

Most (if not all) tender mercies require conscious shift & focus - basically acknowledging them to FEEL them. Both sensing tender mercies & feeling suicidal come from thoughts. Just as I don't eat poison, I try to be careful about thoughts I focus on. Ie: One depressing thought I had was the mistaken idea that I'm the only one going through this & nobody could understand. But when I've opened to the probability that actually, many have gone or are going through similar and that many would understand, I feel less alone and more encouraged to get through. If you can find meaning in suffering (especially through prayer & the spirit) , it makes it more bearable.

Also, if you have a map that shows a way through- there's hope. For me, this map has involved correcting cognitive distortions (improving thoughts improves feelings) & healing life traps. Along the way, I've realized that depressing (holding down) thoughts have less chance to take hold if I'm up & moving. There are times to be still, but depression tends to involve too much of it.

Find even the tiniest reason to be grateful. Your beating heart is a tender mercy.

brlenox wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:31 pm One of my children was having a major issue with this and when they brought it to my attention I recalled a study I had read only a week or two before. I compared their symptoms to the descriptions of 3 different states and solutions. I decided on a product called SAMe (S-Adenosyl methionine) and they started it. Within a week they were a changed person, far less moody and stable at happy. It really has made quite a difference.

Study link?

M Russel Ballard "Suicide, Some Things we Know and Some We do not"

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 1:43 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:31 pm One of my children was having a major issue with this and when they brought it to my attention I recalled a study I had read only a week or two before. I compared their symptoms to the descriptions of 3 different states and solutions. I decided on a product called SAMe (S-Adenosyl methionine) and they started it. Within a week they were a changed person, far less moody and stable at happy. It really has made quite a difference.

Study link?

There are many and I recommend studying several resources but one of the most succinct was this one:

https://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/htc_GABA

brlenox wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 6:39 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 1:43 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:31 pm One of my children was having a major issue with this and when they brought it to my attention I recalled a study I had read only a week or two before. I compared their symptoms to the descriptions of 3 different states and solutions. I decided on a product called SAMe (S-Adenosyl methionine) and they started it. Within a week they were a changed person, far less moody and stable at happy. It really has made quite a difference.

Study link?

There are many and I recommend studying several resources but one of the most succinct was this one:

https://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/htc_GABA

What if you have all three? :ymsigh:

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 5:47 am

brlenox wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 6:39 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 1:43 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 20th, 2017, 11:31 pm One of my children was having a major issue with this and when they brought it to my attention I recalled a study I had read only a week or two before. I compared their symptoms to the descriptions of 3 different states and solutions. I decided on a product called SAMe (S-Adenosyl methionine) and they started it. Within a week they were a changed person, far less moody and stable at happy. It really has made quite a difference.

Study link?

There are many and I recommend studying several resources but one of the most succinct was this one:

https://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/htc_GABA

What if you have all three? :ymsigh:

There are actually four groups:
1.) The "S" (Serotonin) Group
2.) The "G" (GABA) Group
3.) The "D" (Dopamine) Group
4.)The "N" (Norepinephrine) Group

The one most potentially negative if misdiagnosed is the GABA. As it slows impulses then if given to a depressed person can further aggravate depression. Nonetheless, it is not considered a great risk one just needs to be on top of it to determine if it is helping or hurting. It is also the one some think is least likely to be effective as the size of the GABA molecule exceeds the blood / brain barrier tolerances. This is currently the predominate supposition as they are not sure as it does help certain patients quite well. They are wondering if it is because the Blood / Brain barrier has been "stretched" due to the issues of depression and such that it allows the molecule to pass through but again they are not sure yet if that is the case. It may simply be that something else is at play that is allowing it to work as it does prove effective far more than would be expected for a blood / brain barrier issue. Here is another link for GABA which gives a bit more detail on usage:

http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html


SAMe and 5-HTP at first glance appear similar but there are a couple of different symptoms that would point to one over the other. 5 - HTP also has the affect of influencing GABA management in the body as well by magnifying it's effectiveness. Both groups have sleep issues but the issues are slightly different and that was the deciding factor for which one my wife took versus which one my child takes.

I would only start one at a time, and if it were me and I was unsure, since there is overlap in GABA performance, I would tend towards the 5-HTP first for 6 weeks or until it was obvious it was not working because issues were not responding as expected and or were getting worse. Again more research might paint a more clear picture for you but I reiterate that these have been very helpful for us.

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:06 am

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 5:47 am

brlenox wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 6:39 pm

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 1:43 pm
Study link?

There are many and I recommend studying several resources but one of the most succinct was this one:

https://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/htc_GABA

What if you have all three? :ymsigh:

There are actually four groups:
1.) The "S" (Serotonin) Group
2.) The "G" (GABA) Group
3.) The "D" (Dopamine) Group
4.)The "N" (Norepinephrine) Group

The one most potentially negative if misdiagnosed is the GABA. As it slows impulses then if given to a depressed person can further aggravate depression. Nonetheless, it is not considered a great risk one just needs to be on top of it to determine if it is helping or hurting. It is also the one some think is least likely to be effective as the size of the GABA molecule exceeds the blood / brain barrier tolerances. This is currently the predominate supposition as they are not sure as it does help certain patients quite well. They are wondering if it is because the Blood / Brain barrier has been "stretched" due to the issues of depression and such that it allows the molecule to pass through but again they are not sure yet if that is the case. It may simply be that something else is at play that is allowing it to work as it does prove effective far more than would be expected for a blood / brain barrier issue. Here is another link for GABA which gives a bit more detail on usage:

http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html


SAMe and 5-HTP at first glance appear similar but there are a couple of different symptoms that would point to one over the other. 5 - HTP also has the affect of influencing GABA management in the body as well by magnifying it's effectiveness. Both groups have sleep issues but the issues are slightly different and that was the deciding factor for which one my wife took versus which one my child takes.

I would only start one at a time, and if it were me and I was unsure, since there is overlap in GABA performance, I would tend towards the 5-HTP first for 6 weeks or until it was obvious it was not working because issues were not responding as expected and or were getting worse. Again more research might paint a more clear picture for you but I reiterate that these have been very helpful for us.

Just as a word of caution concerning 5-HTP, because it affects serotonin levels in the body, it can cause serotonin syndrome if too much is taken just as SSRIs can. 5-HTP increases serotonin levels directly, whereas SSRI's suppress the reuptake of serotonin in the body to increase the amount left in the body. Both are acting on serotonin in the body, however.

-Finrock

I believe that the punishment for suicide is seeing the grief, and pain you caused others on this side.

I don't believe it would prevent anyone from entering the celestial kingdom.

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:21 am

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:06 am

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 5:47 am

brlenox wrote: ↑July 23rd, 2017, 6:39 pm

There are many and I recommend studying several resources but one of the most succinct was this one:

https://www.needs.com/product/NDNL-0712-01/htc_GABA

What if you have all three? :ymsigh:

There are actually four groups:
1.) The "S" (Serotonin) Group
2.) The "G" (GABA) Group
3.) The "D" (Dopamine) Group
4.)The "N" (Norepinephrine) Group

The one most potentially negative if misdiagnosed is the GABA. As it slows impulses then if given to a depressed person can further aggravate depression. Nonetheless, it is not considered a great risk one just needs to be on top of it to determine if it is helping or hurting. It is also the one some think is least likely to be effective as the size of the GABA molecule exceeds the blood / brain barrier tolerances. This is currently the predominate supposition as they are not sure as it does help certain patients quite well. They are wondering if it is because the Blood / Brain barrier has been "stretched" due to the issues of depression and such that it allows the molecule to pass through but again they are not sure yet if that is the case. It may simply be that something else is at play that is allowing it to work as it does prove effective far more than would be expected for a blood / brain barrier issue. Here is another link for GABA which gives a bit more detail on usage:

http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html


SAMe and 5-HTP at first glance appear similar but there are a couple of different symptoms that would point to one over the other. 5 - HTP also has the affect of influencing GABA management in the body as well by magnifying it's effectiveness. Both groups have sleep issues but the issues are slightly different and that was the deciding factor for which one my wife took versus which one my child takes.

I would only start one at a time, and if it were me and I was unsure, since there is overlap in GABA performance, I would tend towards the 5-HTP first for 6 weeks or until it was obvious it was not working because issues were not responding as expected and or were getting worse. Again more research might paint a more clear picture for you but I reiterate that these have been very helpful for us.

Just as a word of caution concerning 5-HTP, because it affects serotonin levels in the body, it can cause serotonin syndrome if too much is taken just as SSRIs can. 5-HTP increases serotonin levels directly, whereas SSRI's suppress the reuptake of serotonin in the body to increase the amount left in the body. Both are acting on serotonin in the body, however.

-Finrock

From my research, I have not found where 5-HTP is ever implicated in serotonin syndrome. Typically this is related to drugs which manipulate serotonin levels. In the few instances where 5-HTP is associated it has always been when used in conjunction with those types of drugs. If you have other research though I would be interested.

markharr wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 10:46 am I believe that the punishment for suicide is seeing the grief, and pain you caused others on this side.

I don't believe it would prevent anyone from entering the celestial kingdom.

Why do you believe this?

I don't have anything to back it up. I had an uncle who committed suicide and this is what I felt while trying to come to terms with it.

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 11:42 am

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:21 am

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:06 am

JohnnyL wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 5:47 am
What if you have all three? :ymsigh:

There are actually four groups:
1.) The "S" (Serotonin) Group
2.) The "G" (GABA) Group
3.) The "D" (Dopamine) Group
4.)The "N" (Norepinephrine) Group

The one most potentially negative if misdiagnosed is the GABA. As it slows impulses then if given to a depressed person can further aggravate depression. Nonetheless, it is not considered a great risk one just needs to be on top of it to determine if it is helping or hurting. It is also the one some think is least likely to be effective as the size of the GABA molecule exceeds the blood / brain barrier tolerances. This is currently the predominate supposition as they are not sure as it does help certain patients quite well. They are wondering if it is because the Blood / Brain barrier has been "stretched" due to the issues of depression and such that it allows the molecule to pass through but again they are not sure yet if that is the case. It may simply be that something else is at play that is allowing it to work as it does prove effective far more than would be expected for a blood / brain barrier issue. Here is another link for GABA which gives a bit more detail on usage:

http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html


SAMe and 5-HTP at first glance appear similar but there are a couple of different symptoms that would point to one over the other. 5 - HTP also has the affect of influencing GABA management in the body as well by magnifying it's effectiveness. Both groups have sleep issues but the issues are slightly different and that was the deciding factor for which one my wife took versus which one my child takes.

I would only start one at a time, and if it were me and I was unsure, since there is overlap in GABA performance, I would tend towards the 5-HTP first for 6 weeks or until it was obvious it was not working because issues were not responding as expected and or were getting worse. Again more research might paint a more clear picture for you but I reiterate that these have been very helpful for us.

Just as a word of caution concerning 5-HTP, because it affects serotonin levels in the body, it can cause serotonin syndrome if too much is taken just as SSRIs can. 5-HTP increases serotonin levels directly, whereas SSRI's suppress the reuptake of serotonin in the body to increase the amount left in the body. Both are acting on serotonin in the body, however.

-Finrock

From my research, I have not found where 5-HTP is ever implicated in serotonin syndrome. Typically this is related to drugs which manipulate serotonin levels. In the few instances where 5-HTP is associated it has always been when used in conjunction with those types of drugs. If you have other research though I would be interested.

You can look at the Side Affects listed on WebMD for a quick reference. It doesn't call it serotonin syndrome, but it describes some of the symptoms. The issue is of course compounded if you are using SSRIs (for instance) in addition to 5-HTP. However, 5-HTP gets converted in to serotonin so in large doses it is possible to have too much serotonin in the body.

Although I've never been officially diagnosed with serotonin syndrome, I have experienced what were symptoms which are typically associated with serotonin syndrome after experimenting with 5-HTP in the past. Although I was not using other SSRIs at the time, I was taking some pain medication (Tramadol) which could have contributed to the symptoms I felt, however, before I used the 5-HTP I made sure not to be using any other medications for a few days with the intent to avoid these types of issues. But, its possible that it wasn't enough time for my body to clear the "system" so to speak before I experimented with 5-HTP. I used 5-HTP for a couple of weeks and after about a week of daily use I started having issues associated with serotonin syndrome. I experimented some more trying to find the right balance but eventually gave up because for me it wasn't helping much at the time given the side effects I was experiencing.

-Finrock