LDS Freedom Forum

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 1:47 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 11:42 am

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:21 am

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:06 am

There are actually four groups:
1.) The "S" (Serotonin) Group
2.) The "G" (GABA) Group
3.) The "D" (Dopamine) Group
4.)The "N" (Norepinephrine) Group

The one most potentially negative if misdiagnosed is the GABA. As it slows impulses then if given to a depressed person can further aggravate depression. Nonetheless, it is not considered a great risk one just needs to be on top of it to determine if it is helping or hurting. It is also the one some think is least likely to be effective as the size of the GABA molecule exceeds the blood / brain barrier tolerances. This is currently the predominate supposition as they are not sure as it does help certain patients quite well. They are wondering if it is because the Blood / Brain barrier has been "stretched" due to the issues of depression and such that it allows the molecule to pass through but again they are not sure yet if that is the case. It may simply be that something else is at play that is allowing it to work as it does prove effective far more than would be expected for a blood / brain barrier issue. Here is another link for GABA which gives a bit more detail on usage:

http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html


SAMe and 5-HTP at first glance appear similar but there are a couple of different symptoms that would point to one over the other. 5 - HTP also has the affect of influencing GABA management in the body as well by magnifying it's effectiveness. Both groups have sleep issues but the issues are slightly different and that was the deciding factor for which one my wife took versus which one my child takes.

I would only start one at a time, and if it were me and I was unsure, since there is overlap in GABA performance, I would tend towards the 5-HTP first for 6 weeks or until it was obvious it was not working because issues were not responding as expected and or were getting worse. Again more research might paint a more clear picture for you but I reiterate that these have been very helpful for us.

Just as a word of caution concerning 5-HTP, because it affects serotonin levels in the body, it can cause serotonin syndrome if too much is taken just as SSRIs can. 5-HTP increases serotonin levels directly, whereas SSRI's suppress the reuptake of serotonin in the body to increase the amount left in the body. Both are acting on serotonin in the body, however.

-Finrock

From my research, I have not found where 5-HTP is ever implicated in serotonin syndrome. Typically this is related to drugs which manipulate serotonin levels. In the few instances where 5-HTP is associated it has always been when used in conjunction with those types of drugs. If you have other research though I would be interested.

You can look at the Side Affects listed on WebMD for a quick reference. It doesn't call it serotonin syndrome, but it describes some of the symptoms. The issue is of course compounded if you are using SSRIs (for instance) in addition to 5-HTP. However, 5-HTP gets converted in to serotonin so in large doses it is possible to have too much serotonin in the body.

Although I've never been officially diagnosed with serotonin syndrome, I have experienced what were symptoms which are typically associated with serotonin syndrome after experimenting with 5-HTP in the past. Although I was not using other SSRIs at the time, I was taking some pain medication (Tramadol) which could have contributed to the symptoms I felt, however, before I used the 5-HTP I made sure not to be using any other medications for a few days with the intent to avoid these types of issues. But, its possible that it wasn't enough time for my body to clear the "system" so to speak before I experimented with 5-HTP. I used 5-HTP for a couple of weeks and after about a week of daily use I started having issues associated with serotonin syndrome. I experimented some more trying to find the right balance but eventually gave up because for me it wasn't helping much at the time given the side effects I was experiencing.

-Finrock

Did you find an alternative solution?

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:13 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 1:47 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 11:42 am

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 9:21 am

Just as a word of caution concerning 5-HTP, because it affects serotonin levels in the body, it can cause serotonin syndrome if too much is taken just as SSRIs can. 5-HTP increases serotonin levels directly, whereas SSRI's suppress the reuptake of serotonin in the body to increase the amount left in the body. Both are acting on serotonin in the body, however.

-Finrock

From my research, I have not found where 5-HTP is ever implicated in serotonin syndrome. Typically this is related to drugs which manipulate serotonin levels. In the few instances where 5-HTP is associated it has always been when used in conjunction with those types of drugs. If you have other research though I would be interested.

You can look at the Side Affects listed on WebMD for a quick reference. It doesn't call it serotonin syndrome, but it describes some of the symptoms. The issue is of course compounded if you are using SSRIs (for instance) in addition to 5-HTP. However, 5-HTP gets converted in to serotonin so in large doses it is possible to have too much serotonin in the body.

Although I've never been officially diagnosed with serotonin syndrome, I have experienced what were symptoms which are typically associated with serotonin syndrome after experimenting with 5-HTP in the past. Although I was not using other SSRIs at the time, I was taking some pain medication (Tramadol) which could have contributed to the symptoms I felt, however, before I used the 5-HTP I made sure not to be using any other medications for a few days with the intent to avoid these types of issues. But, its possible that it wasn't enough time for my body to clear the "system" so to speak before I experimented with 5-HTP. I used 5-HTP for a couple of weeks and after about a week of daily use I started having issues associated with serotonin syndrome. I experimented some more trying to find the right balance but eventually gave up because for me it wasn't helping much at the time given the side effects I was experiencing.

-Finrock

Did you find an alternative solution?

Yes.

22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

11 Go up into Gilead, and take balm, O virgin, the daughter of Egypt: in vain shalt thou use many medicines; for thou shalt not be cured.

I tried many "medicines" but the only medicine that ultimately worked and provided a lasting cure was the "balm in Gilead". The balm in
Gilead is the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is Christ.

Medicines play a role, don't get me wrong, and there are many required steps that involve other people along the way (at least there was for me), but only Jesus Christ offers the ultimate cure and the ultimate healing. Without Christ, all other medicines and cures are just band-aids that wear out over time.

-Finrock

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:38 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:13 pm Did you find an alternative solution?

Yes.

22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

11 Go up into Gilead, and take balm, O virgin, the daughter of Egypt: in vain shalt thou use many medicines; for thou shalt not be cured.

I tried many "medicines" but the only medicine that ultimately worked and provided a lasting cure was the "balm in Gilead". The balm in
Gilead is the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is Christ.

Medicines play a role, don't get me wrong, and there are many required steps that involve other people along the way (at least there was for me), but only Jesus Christ offers the ultimate cure and the ultimate healing. Without Christ, all other medicines and cures are just band-aids that wear out over time.

-Finrock

Quite frequently I find that is the point of certain peoples suffering. The Lord is simply prodding them to get to a point where they will acquire the faith necessary to be healed of their infirmities and that is the intended solution.

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 3:45 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:38 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:13 pm Did you find an alternative solution?

Yes.

22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

11 Go up into Gilead, and take balm, O virgin, the daughter of Egypt: in vain shalt thou use many medicines; for thou shalt not be cured.

I tried many "medicines" but the only medicine that ultimately worked and provided a lasting cure was the "balm in Gilead". The balm in
Gilead is the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is Christ.

Medicines play a role, don't get me wrong, and there are many required steps that involve other people along the way (at least there was for me), but only Jesus Christ offers the ultimate cure and the ultimate healing. Without Christ, all other medicines and cures are just band-aids that wear out over time.

-Finrock

Quite frequently I find that is the point of certain peoples suffering. The Lord is simply prodding them to get to a point where they will acquire the faith necessary to be healed of their infirmities and that is the intended solution.

And what if they are already there but still endure the suffering?
What is the purpose then?

Red wrote: ↑July 27th, 2017, 7:34 am

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 3:45 pm

Finrock wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:38 pm

brlenox wrote: ↑July 26th, 2017, 2:13 pm Did you find an alternative solution?

Yes.

22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

11 Go up into Gilead, and take balm, O virgin, the daughter of Egypt: in vain shalt thou use many medicines; for thou shalt not be cured.

I tried many "medicines" but the only medicine that ultimately worked and provided a lasting cure was the "balm in Gilead". The balm in
Gilead is the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is Christ.

Medicines play a role, don't get me wrong, and there are many required steps that involve other people along the way (at least there was for me), but only Jesus Christ offers the ultimate cure and the ultimate healing. Without Christ, all other medicines and cures are just band-aids that wear out over time.

-Finrock

Quite frequently I find that is the point of certain peoples suffering. The Lord is simply prodding them to get to a point where they will acquire the faith necessary to be healed of their infirmities and that is the intended solution.

And what if they are already there but still endure the suffering?
What is the purpose then?

Not knowing particulars of whomever's situation that you reference I can only make general observations and of course they cover the gamut of possibilities. First off, I am sure there is generally an actual physical issue that can be addressed which can alleviate aspects of depression. However, I am equally sure that there is no physical condition that we can have that Satan doesn't exploit to his advantage to make it even worse than it otherwise would be.

1.) Healing - There is a quote found in the Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, where he records Joseph making the following paraphrased statement. "It is time the Elders got the power of God to heal the sick or cease practicing the forms without the power thereof." This was after a day of profound healing by Joseph Smith as the Saints were living in the swamp lands of Commerce and had become gravely ill. Going through the motions, so to speak is a genuine issue with priesthood holders. Sometimes we give blessings and they work and other times we just shake our heads not understanding what's going on because it didn't go as we said it would.

That is not to say that every time a blessing is given that the person receiving is required to receive the blessing. Priesthood works with agency, not against. I have seen cases where a person was supposed to be deceased in a couple of hours by medical evaluation have a complete reversal and in 30 minutes be conversing and joking with his family. Same person six months later did not accept a similar blessing and chose to pass on.

Still, and I surely do not have all of the answers, but there is an issue with using priesthood as authority, meaning to command and be obeyed, versus generalizing and giving weak blessings without the presence of a sense of authority. This has been a point that has been of great interest to me of late and I have observed remarkable differences in effectiveness. In fact that it was effective was the difference.

2.) Being healed - We have all sorts of mistaken notions about what this entails. If you remember the Elijah Fordham story, where Joseph pulled him back from deaths door. First when he gets there Elijah is comatose, not responding. Joseph asks if Elijah recognizes him multiple times...no answer. After a bit of time, Elijah kind of stirs a little and Joseph asks him if he believes he can be healed. Elijah mumbles that he is beyond healing and that maybe if Joseph had come earlier he might have been saved but it was now too late. For most of us we are all "he doesn't have faith - he can't be healed". "Hey can I have his shoes when he's dead...he won't need them. Okay but if you get the shoes, I's wants them bright red spenders he's wearin..." Anyway, Joseph is much more intelligent in these things and he asks Elijah if he believes in Jesus Christ and Elijah, feebly clutching his red spenders, says yes, you know I do Joseph.

Well, apparently this is the faith that matters. Because even though Elijah has voiced a lack of confidence that he can be healed, his affirmation of faith in Christ draws from Joseph a loud command for Elijah to rise and be healed and to go forth. Well, ultimately Elijah did die but it was forty years later so we can presume the blessing was pretty effective.

The essence is that I have had to have people leave the room of a blessing because they did not understand that someone expressing their concerns about being healed was not the faith being measured here. Thus they hear someone says that the blessing is too late and they begin to doubt and that doubt can completely undermine the effectiveness of a blessing which might otherwise work because their faith in Christ was sufficient to be healed.

However, the other problem and I think more common, is that people express faith in words but they are not living in a manner that illustrates they really possess faith in Christ. They ask for blessings from the Lord because they hurt in some way so that they can be healed to go back to living the same noncommitted life. That's not faith and the Lord generally expects more than that. He wants commitment.

Now these are generalities and there are situations that appear to be exceptions but these have always seemed the Lord judging based on what they know and not by what we think they should be doing etc.

Still this does bring us to the state of the person seeking healing. I have a person I have given blessings to end their depression. It works quite effectively. However, I have noticed and discussed with this person what one of the triggers is that keeps giving Satan a hold over them. After they have been blessed, this person will feel more positive and their efforts at not being negative and complaining are ramped up. However, in time they forget to be vigilant and they wind up back into the judging, complaining, murmuring, talking about others etc. Carefully, slowly, but surely Satan gets ahold again and they get dragged back down into a state of depression for the hold that they have freely given.

In other words most of us have issues that we are working on in our lives but those issues are the most important thing for Satan to maintain in order for him to have his influences. So we may not connect his efforts in our lives with certain behaviors that he influences so that he can maintain the control he seeks. However, until we make the connection and start observing the points of contact which seem innocent at first but slowly move us back into his camp we may not realize where it is that our actions are leading us downward.

Anyway, I read a book recently "Faith to Heal and to be Healed" by Dennis Horne. Lot's of stories which provide good fodder for understanding the nuances of being healed and healing. I recommend it.

When one contemplates suicide it is at a time when stress has taken over and one is no longer of sound mind nor able to think in a rational manner.

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑July 28th, 2017, 4:44 pm In logical terms I think of suicide as murder because you are killing an INNOCENT person. That's how I personally feel. Everyone should think of themselves as innocent.

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑July 28th, 2017, 4:44 pm In logical terms I think of suicide as murder because you are killing an INNOCENT person. That's how I personally feel. Everyone should think of themselves as innocent.

Whoaa there that is quite the statement. I disagree. I believe nearly all suicides are a type of death equivalent to dying from any other illness like a heart attack or stroke or cancer. The truth is that we cannot judge anyone who dies by suicide because we have not walked in their shoes. To say anything otherwise is truly foolish and cruel. We simply do not have all the facts. Remember when Elder Scott taught that if one is abused too much suicide results. And the person who mentioned SRA - Yea it is real and prevalent and it does kill and anyone who dies from SRA wounds and it looked like a suicide, no they were murdered and not by themselves because they are not themselves after such trauma.

waialeale wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 12:08 am

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑July 28th, 2017, 4:44 pm In logical terms I think of suicide as murder because you are killing an INNOCENT person. That's how I personally feel. Everyone should think of themselves as innocent.

Whoaa there that is quite the statement. I disagree. I believe nearly all suicides are a type of death equivalent to dying from any other illness like a heart attack or stroke or cancer. The truth is that we cannot judge anyone who dies by suicide because we have not walked in their shoes. To say anything otherwise is truly foolish and cruel. We simply do not have all the facts. Remember when Elder Scott taught that if one is abused too much suicide results. And the person who mentioned SRA - Yea it is real and prevalent and it does kill and anyone who dies from SRA wounds and it looked like a suicide, no they were murdered and not by themselves because they are not themselves after such trauma.

What is SRA?

Red wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 11:58 am

waialeale wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 12:08 am

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑July 28th, 2017, 4:44 pm In logical terms I think of suicide as murder because you are killing an INNOCENT person. That's how I personally feel. Everyone should think of themselves as innocent.

Whoaa there that is quite the statement. I disagree. I believe nearly all suicides are a type of death equivalent to dying from any other illness like a heart attack or stroke or cancer. The truth is that we cannot judge anyone who dies by suicide because we have not walked in their shoes. To say anything otherwise is truly foolish and cruel. We simply do not have all the facts. Remember when Elder Scott taught that if one is abused too much suicide results. And the person who mentioned SRA - Yea it is real and prevalent and it does kill and anyone who dies from SRA wounds and it looked like a suicide, no they were murdered and not by themselves because they are not themselves after such trauma.

What is SRA?

Satanic Ritual Abuse

kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 1:51 pm

Red wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 11:58 am

waialeale wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 12:08 am

CelestialAngel wrote: ↑July 28th, 2017, 4:44 pm In logical terms I think of suicide as murder because you are killing an INNOCENT person. That's how I personally feel. Everyone should think of themselves as innocent.

Whoaa there that is quite the statement. I disagree. I believe nearly all suicides are a type of death equivalent to dying from any other illness like a heart attack or stroke or cancer. The truth is that we cannot judge anyone who dies by suicide because we have not walked in their shoes. To say anything otherwise is truly foolish and cruel. We simply do not have all the facts. Remember when Elder Scott taught that if one is abused too much suicide results. And the person who mentioned SRA - Yea it is real and prevalent and it does kill and anyone who dies from SRA wounds and it looked like a suicide, no they were murdered and not by themselves because they are not themselves after such trauma.

What is SRA?

Satanic Ritual Abuse

What is that? I remember seeing that as well. I dont know what it is.

Red wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 4:02 pm

kittycat51 wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 1:51 pm

Red wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 11:58 am

waialeale wrote: ↑July 31st, 2017, 12:08 am

Whoaa there that is quite the statement. I disagree. I believe nearly all suicides are a type of death equivalent to dying from any other illness like a heart attack or stroke or cancer. The truth is that we cannot judge anyone who dies by suicide because we have not walked in their shoes. To say anything otherwise is truly foolish and cruel. We simply do not have all the facts. Remember when Elder Scott taught that if one is abused too much suicide results. And the person who mentioned SRA - Yea it is real and prevalent and it does kill and anyone who dies from SRA wounds and it looked like a suicide, no they were murdered and not by themselves because they are not themselves after such trauma.

What is SRA?

Satanic Ritual Abuse

What is that? I remember seeing that as well. I dont know what it is.

https://youtu.be/GUIThGCQZLA This is my video entitled, "What is Satanic Ritual Abuse"

I just watched a documentary about the pain of those who had lost loved ones through suicide. It made me want to be more open with my kids and encourage my kids to be more open about feelings, struggles, hopes etc. It also is a reminder that suicide is a permanent “solution” to a temporary problem & that such a “solution” is not solving problems or pain but shifting them to others.

https://youtu.be/WlDt9jq9ceE