The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

[Jesef]

I have to admit, ever since the year 2000, every year has been touted as some sort of apocalyptic start time. The last few years have been the worst, EVERY September since like 2012! So, I got curious and wanted to see if this astrological configuration coming up next week is really cosmically and historically monumental - some are claiming it has not occurred in recorded history (at least 7000 years). Many LDS, Remnant, Evangelical and end-times Christians are interested in this and believe it to be a unique fulfillment of Revelations 12. A lot of these predictions are originating from people using modern software like Stellarium (http://www.stellarium.org/) to look forward to various astrological configurations that they interpret to be significant.

Here's a bona-fide astronomer who thinks it's religious bunk (with some good reasons):
http://earthsky.org/human-world/biblica ... er-23-2017

It turns out that, objectively, this same astrological phenomena has occurred at least 4 times in the last 1000 years alone: 1827, 1483, 1293, and 1056. And that was only doing a Stellarium search (backwards) to 1017 (1000 years).

The other observation I would cite is that almost every Christian generation since Christ has thought they were going to be the last, the one that would usher in the Second Coming. Are we truly unique, the one (we are certainly the most recent)? All these generations saw their fulfillment of signs, etc. Do we just see what we want to see? How many anticipations have been disappointed?

I will say this, though, about the Marred and/or Davidic Servants - and Revelations - all these prophecies mention supernatural signs, wonders, miracles, powers, etc. (from both the good guys and the bad guys: beast & anti-Christ, too), so if we aren't seeing weird, spectacular, marvelous type things - impossible, scientifically inexplicable things - as well as global-scale events - like asteroid impacts, nuclear war, etc. - I would have to say it's all still just anticipation until these things actually start materializing and happening.

[Finrock]

Maybe all these predictions and speculations are being used by people to fill a void that they have in their life. Perhaps without these things to look forward to, life would be too mundane or even meaningless. They provide a means and a thing to anticipate and to be prepared for. Perhaps the real changes and miracles and signs that need to happen are those that happen inside of us, those which change our very being, and which leads us to appreciate the here and the now and taking joy in being present.

-Finrock

[SmallFarm]

Just because the clock has struck twelve numerous times before doesn't make it any less of a sign of a new day

[Jesef]

We will see, truly. Lots of good, believing, dedicated folks over many, many generations have anticipated all kinds of things with "spiritual certainty" and been proven (by reality) to be wrong, in error, mistaken. Often, with imminent apocalypse "end timers" they end up re-contextualizing (their prophetic interpretations) and then pushing the date, as it were. After multiple failures to materialize, multiple disappointments, they usually end up confronting their cognitive dissonance and accepting they were wrong. NDE's and visions have proven to be particularly erroneous.

People love to anticipate and to fantasize. The good news is with a real "wait and see" approach, there's no disappointment. If it happens, it will actually happen. It will be visible and real and the whole world will witness something. Like a hurricane (God bless all the recent victims). Or a meteor or asteroid impact. In today's media world, none of us will miss it. It's going to be quite a show, if/when it ever actually starts. Denver giving talks to a tiny and mostly disinterested non-LDS Christian audience in a couple big cities doesn't qualify, in my view, as monumental, btw.

Also, I think it's quite productive to simply look at the end of one's own mortal life as "the (personal and real) end times" or "the (personal and real) apocalypse". Everyone has a "Second Coming" (meeting The Lord) waiting for them at the end of their mortal life. Be ready for that. With all the prophesied suffering and horrors, I'm not even sure I'm that interested in surviving.

[Z2100]

Friends,

I have created a blog. I did not want to, but as difficult as it is to format a blog, it's easier than doing it here and easier on the eyes than reading a lengthy forum post. So without further ado:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... aimer.html

So this blog is about the sign from Revelation 12 of the crowned woman clothed with the sun that seems to occur on 9/23/2017 and how it may be related to the anointing of the Davidic Servant. Enjoy!

9 days until September 23rd! I remember when I first heard about it back in March. I can't believe we're 9 days away!

[dafty]

there u have it I was wrong again lol

[Red]

"It" will come when we least expect it. We should all make a concerted effort to stop speculating so Christ can come back, already.

[Alaris]

I have to admit, ever since the year 2000, every year has been touted as some sort of apocalyptic start time. The last few years have been the worst, EVERY September since like 2012! So, I got curious and wanted to see if this astrological configuration coming up next week is really cosmically and historically monumental - some are claiming it has not occurred in recorded history (at least 7000 years). Many LDS, Remnant, Evangelical and end-times Christians are interested in this and believe it to be a unique fulfillment of Revelations 12. A lot of these predictions are originating from people using modern software like Stellarium (http://www.stellarium.org/) to look forward to various astrological configurations that they interpret to be significant.

Here's a bona-fide astronomer who thinks it's religious bunk (with some good reasons):
http://earthsky.org/human-world/biblica ... er-23-2017

It turns out that, objectively, this same astrological phenomena has occurred at least 4 times in the last 1000 years alone: 1827, 1483, 1293, and 1056. And that was only doing a Stellarium search (backwards) to 1017 (1000 years).

The other observation I would cite is that almost every Christian generation since Christ has thought they were going to be the last, the one that would usher in the Second Coming. Are we truly unique, the one (we are certainly the most recent)? All these generations saw their fulfillment of signs, etc. Do we just see what we want to see? How many anticipations have been disappointed?

I will say this, though, about the Marred and/or Davidic Servants - and Revelations - all these prophecies mention supernatural signs, wonders, miracles, powers, etc. (from both the good guys and the bad guys: beast & anti-Christ, too), so if we aren't seeing weird, spectacular, marvelous type things - impossible, scientifically inexplicable things - as well as global-scale events - like asteroid impacts, nuclear war, etc. - I would have to say it's all still just anticipation until these things actually start materializing and happening.

I took a look at the article, so I'm quoting from it:

"This basic arrangement happened before — in September 1827, in September 1483, in September 1293, and in September 1056. "

So the basic arrangement happened before, not the exact arrangement. If the exact arrangement happened before he would not only have stated as such but would have provided evidence. Was Jupiter in the "womb" for 42 weeks? Did Jupiter "birth" near the "basic arrangement?" Did they happen at the feast of trumpets? No. The spirit of the whole article is one of scornful disbelief - mocking those who look at the stars for signs as though they are as scientific as Harry Potter's wand. We LDS know better.

I highly recommend a reading of Avraham Gileadi's blog. I am not a horn tooter, but he is basically saying the same thing I said back in June.

http://www.isaiahinstitute.com/2017/09/ ... 2017s.html

Here are some relevant snippets to those of you who have "wait and see" or less:

On second thought, here's the whole thing:

To many people, the “signs in the heavens” the scriptures predict that will precede the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Luke 21:11; Acts 2:19) are a subject they categorically dismiss. In their minds, astrological events are unrelated to realities on the ground. Associating them with fortune telling and other forbidden practices, they ignore the part of God’s Word that deals with “looking forth for the signs of my coming” (Doctrine & Covenants 39:23). And yet, hasn’t it always been in the nature of God, who created the heavens, to reveal his truth through heavenly mysteries?

When Abraham inquired of God, for example, he learned of “the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God” (Abraham 3:10). As a celestial embodiment of God’s children who attain exaltation, the stars God showed Abraham informed him of different degrees of exaltation and that exaltation was a work in progress: “I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it,” the nearest being Kolob (Abraham 3:2, 16).

Isaiah similarly saw the stars as exalted beings: “Lift your eyes heavenward and see: Who formed these? He who brings forth their hosts by number, calling each one by name. Because he is almighty and all powerful, not one is unaccounted for” (Isaiah 40:26). Persons who experience spiritual rebirth each time they ascend the ladder to heaven, God calls by a new name (Isaiah 43:1; 49:1; 56:5; 62:2). Those who are “formed, molded, and wrought for my own glory,” he re-creates nearer to himself, acknowledging them as his “sons” and “daughters” (Isaiah 43:6–7).

Such esoteric knowledge, which deals with the mysteries of God, forms a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ that is accessible to all: “For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost” (1 Nephi 10:19). While on the one hand “he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word,” on the other, “he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full” (Alma 12:10).

Remembering the many precedents of astrological signs that portended significant events, including the birth of Jesus Christ at his first coming (Helaman 14:1–8, 12; 3 Nephi 1:9), surely the four blood moons on the four successive Jewish feastdays of Passover 2014, Tabernacles 2014, Passover 2015, and Tabernacles 2015 convey a message significant to the times in which we live, particularly for the Jews. And what of the solar eclipse of August 21, 2017 that cut across the entire United States, which has been followed by intensifying national disasters?

The question is one of belief or unbelief: “He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

To those who “fear” or reverence God, the messianic planet Jupiter’s gestation in the womb of the Virgo Constellation, and of its “birth” on September 23rd 2017, evidently contains far more significance than to those who don’t fear God. Particularly is that so when we perceive that all messianic prophecies aren’t equal—that many refer to a temporal savior who restores God’s people Israel to prepare them for Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth; while others, such as Isaiah 53:1–10, refer to a spiritual Savior who “saves his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

The phenomenon called the “Birthpangs of the Messiah” deals with Zion’s entering a time of travail until she brings forth a deliverer—God’s endtime servant: “Before she is in labor, she gives birth; before her ordeal overtakes her, she delivers a son! Who has heard the like, or who has seen such things? Can the earth labor but a day and a nation be born at once? For as soon as she was in labor, Zion gave birth to her children. Shall I bring to a crisis and not bring on birth? says Jehovah. When it is I who cause the birth, shall I hinder it? says your God” (Isaiah 66:7-9).

Like the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ day, who feared being displaced, those who attempt to hinder Zion’s deliverance oppose the servant’s efforts of gathering Israel’s natural lineages into a new nation of God’s covenant people in God’s Day of Judgment. Despised, abhorred, accused, and disfigured (Isaiah 49:7; 50:8–9; 52:14), God’s servant—his “arm” of righteousness (Isaiah 51:5, 9–12; 52:10)—nonetheless succeeds in restoring Israel in preparation for Jehovah’s coming (Isaiah 49:8–13; 52:13, 15; 55:3–5). The earth’s Creator sustains him (Isaiah 42:1; 44:24–26).

John’s vision of the Woman “travailing in birth, in pain to be delivered” (Revelation 12:2) forms a second witness of this endtime event. Synchronizing his and Isaiah’s visions, we learn that the Woman Zion’s son being “caught up to God and to his throne” (Revelation 12:5) implies his being translated. As with Enoch, Moses, and the Three Nephites, who were translated at similar such experiences, God’s translating his servant accounts for his being healed of his disfigurement (Isaiah 57:18; 3 Nephi 21:10), after which he gains prominence (Isaiah 49:7; 52:13–14; 55:3–5).~Avraham Gileadi

[Alaris]

"It" will come when we least expect it. We should all make a concerted effort to stop speculating so Christ can come back, already.

Where's the hug smiley? The Lord has told us to look for signs of his coming - see the awesome Gileadi blog I quoted above. Thanks Red *hug smiley*

[clarkkent14]

It is the work of the Father

13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.

14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.

15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.

17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.

18 Therefore, repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and believe in my gospel, and be baptized in my name; for he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned; and signs shall follow them that believe in my name.

19 And blessed is he that is found faithful unto my name at the last day, for he shall be lifted up to dwell in the kingdom prepared for him from the foundation of the world. And behold it is I that hath spoken it. Amen.

1 And verily I say unto you, I give unto you a sign, that ye may know the time when these things shall be about to take place—that I shall gather in, from their long dispersion, my people, O house of Israel, and shall establish again among them my Zion;

2 And behold, this is the thing which I will give unto you for a sign—for verily I say unto you that when these things which I declare unto you, and which I shall declare unto you hereafter of myself, and by the power of the Holy Ghost which shall be given unto you of the Father, shall be made known unto the Gentiles that they may know concerning this people who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, and concerning this my people who shall be scattered by them;

3 Verily, verily, I say unto you, when these things shall be made known unto them of the Father, and shall come forth of the Father, from them unto you;

4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed, that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted with his people, O house of Israel;

5 Therefore, when these works and the works which shall be wrought among you hereafter shall come forth from the Gentiles, unto your seed which shall dwindle in unbelief because of iniquity;

6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;

7 And when these things come to pass that thy seed shall begin to know these things—it shall be a sign unto them, that they may know that the work of the Father hath already commenced unto the fulfilling of the covenant which he hath made unto the people who are of the house of Israel.

8 And when that day shall come, it shall come to pass that kings shall shut their mouths; for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

13 Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off.

14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;

11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.

[Jesef]

Here's a believer that thinks that the 9/23/2017/Revelations-12 sign is false prophecy/sign-interpretation:

https://escapeallthesethings.com/sept-2 ... lation-12/

Please debunk his points if you see errors. Thanks.

[Alaris]

Here's a believer that thinks that the 9/23/2017/Revelations-12 sign is false prophecy/sign-interpretation:

https://escapeallthesethings.com/sept-2 ... lation-12/

Please debunk his points if you see errors. Thanks.

I've put enough study, thought, prayer and experienced enough spiritual confirmation that I really am way past spending time trying to debunk debunkers. Once God gives you a witness that something is true ... then why spend time on those who are just looking to spoil?

If you personally are teetering, I just have one question for you. It's an old question.

1 Nephi 15:8 And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?

[Jesef]

How does the Lord answer you (alaris & anyone else) & have you ever been wrong (let's say in your interpretation of an answer)?

As for this 9/23/17 astrological phenomena being the fulfillment of Revelations 12, I will ask about it. For now, I think it is possible and, if actually true, it will prove itself by actual global events which follow. I'm of the mindset of "always be prepared" (to meet your Creator, to die) and to "wait and see" when it comes to prophecy/signs, etc. The Lord is not absurd, He is benevolent and reasonable, the Most Intelligent and Rational Being of all. My faith in Divinity is not hinged on anyone's interpretation of scripture, etc., or erroneous expectations. And there's some wisdom to this as I've observed many disappointed/failed prognosticators & scripture interpreters & NDE'ers/visionaries over the years and during my lifetime.

So, we will see what becomes of this.

[Alaris]

How does the Lord answer you (alaris & anyone else) & have you ever been wrong (let's say in your interpretation of an answer)?

He typically answers the same way he answers everyone - in my mind and in my heart by the power of the Holy Ghost.

D&C 8:2 Yea, behold, I will atell you in your mind and in your bheart, by the cHoly Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
3 Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses abrought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.

Yes - I am wrong about my interpretations, wrong in my actions, and will continue to be wrong about things until the perfect day that hopefully will come some day.

However, I have received a powerful witness that 9/23 is indeed a sign - beyond the typical manner I described above. If you have the gift to believe on other's words you may feel so now as you read this. However, do not sell yourself short. This was Laman and Lemuel's response to Nephi:

1 Nephi 15:9 And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.

He can and does answer our prayers. So back to the simple question. Have you inquired in sincerity? If not, why not?

As for this 9/23/17 astrological phenomena being the fulfillment of Revelations 12, I will ask about it. For now, I think it is possible and, if actually true, it will prove itself by actual global events which follow. I'm of the mindset of "always be prepared" (to meet your Creator, to die) and to "wait and see" when it comes to prophecy/signs, etc. The Lord is not absurd, He is benevolent and reasonable, the Most Intelligent and Rational Being of all. My faith in Divinity is not hinged on anyone's interpretation of scripture, etc., or erroneous expectations. And there's some wisdom to this as I've observed many disappointed/failed prognosticators & scripture interpreters & NDE'ers/visionaries over the years and during my lifetime.

So, we will see what becomes of this.

Agreed! I believe the gulf between the wicked and righteous will continue to divide. It may be easy at first or it may be difficult immediately, but eventually the wheat and tares will be sifted (i.e. difficult.) The signs will continue to look like nothing to the wicked. I believe this because this isn't the gathering of the gentiles any longer. This is the gathering of Israel. The signs will look tremendous to Israel and those with faith whose souls are set, and the same signs will only anger the wicked and those who have set themselves to kick against the pricks. Imho

[Red]

"It" will come when we least expect it. We should all make a concerted effort to stop speculating so Christ can come back, already.

Where's the hug smiley? The Lord has told us to look for signs of his coming - see the awesome Gileadi blog I quoted above. Thanks Red *hug smiley*

Lol, you're right, I recall that scripture now that you said it. I guess sometimes I feel like I'm watching water, waiting on it to boil, haha.

BTW, I am reading your blog now. It's taking me awhile tho because I'm making follow up notes/questions for you.

[Jesef]

Many of you claiming to be receiving personal revelation on these endtimes Servant(s) have theories that are not entirely congruent (indicative of incompleteness and some errors), so I think I'll trust my own spiritual gifts and what I receive personally. I've also observed that many spiritual seekers who become obsessed or fixated on trying to "know the future" end up being all kinds of wrong. Many things are not necessary to know until they occur and then just to recognize/discern them for what they really are. The more unnecessary to know certain things (particularly future things), the more error-prone people seem to be - hence all the false predictions, interpretations, etc. But we shall see. My (un)favorite are the fear-mongerers who try to scare other people into doing drastic things by telling people by the time their particular prediction comes true, it will be too late to act (like repent), that they will have essentially "missed the boat". Also, propping up criteria, as if it came from God, that amounts to favoritism and inequity - also not true. Snufferites seem to have a lot of this going on these days.

[Alaris]

So you haven't inquired.

[Jesef]

Not yet. I still have like a week, right?

To be honest, I always have powerful manifestations on the equinoxes, including like 9/21-9/23, so I'll probably receive something around the time of. What's the need to know in advance? I'm ready to die right now.

[Alaris]

Not yet. I still have like a week, right?

To be honest, I always have powerful manifestations on the equinoxes, including like 9/21-9/23, so I'll probably receive something around the time of. What's the need to know in advance? I'm ready to die right now.

Thanks for sharing that. I have received a few gems of knowledge that my wife pointed out all took place at 2 AM. On a hunch I guessed correctly that 2 AM AZ time is 12 PM Jerusalem time.

[Silver]

Is it possible that since only certain people seem to be aware in advance that the fulfillment of prophecies will occur on 23Sep2017, that many people, and perhaps even a majority of people, will still be unaware of their actual fulfillment after 23Sep2017? After all, most people on the planet are still unaware that the Father and the Son visited Joseph in the grove, or that there were many subsequent angelic visitations to Joseph.

[Z2100]

Is it possible that since only certain people seem to be aware in advance that the fulfillment of prophecies will occur on 23Sep2017, that many people, and perhaps even a majority of people, will still be unaware of their actual fulfillment after 23Sep2017? After all, most people on the planet are still unaware that the Father and the Son visited Joseph in the grove, or that there were many subsequent angelic visitations to Joseph.

Yep. You are spot on. I need to ask my bishop on Sunday what he thinks about September 23rd.

[Silver]

Is it possible that since only certain people seem to be aware in advance that the fulfillment of prophecies will occur on 23Sep2017, that many people, and perhaps even a majority of people, will still be unaware of their actual fulfillment after 23Sep2017? After all, most people on the planet are still unaware that the Father and the Son visited Joseph in the grove, or that there were many subsequent angelic visitations to Joseph.

Yep. You are spot on. I need to ask my bishop on Sunday what he thinks about September 23rd.

Do you have a good relationship with your bishop? Is he open to inquiries such as the one you propose? He may be concerned that you're hanging out on some fringe LDS website and getting influenced by speculation about things that our current prophets, seers and revelators haven't seen a need to clarify.

[Red]

Is it possible that since only certain people seem to be aware in advance that the fulfillment of prophecies will occur on 23Sep2017, that many people, and perhaps even a majority of people, will still be unaware of their actual fulfillment after 23Sep2017? After all, most people on the planet are still unaware that the Father and the Son visited Joseph in the grove, or that there were many subsequent angelic visitations to Joseph.

Yep. You are spot on. I need to ask my bishop on Sunday what he thinks about September 23rd.

Is he the type to know about these things? you know, some bishops are cool and some are just bishops, haha

[e-eye2.0]

Is it possible that since only certain people seem to be aware in advance that the fulfillment of prophecies will occur on 23Sep2017, that many people, and perhaps even a majority of people, will still be unaware of their actual fulfillment after 23Sep2017? After all, most people on the planet are still unaware that the Father and the Son visited Joseph in the grove, or that there were many subsequent angelic visitations to Joseph.

Yep. You are spot on. I need to ask my bishop on Sunday what he thinks about September 23rd.

Is he the type to know about these things? you know, some bishops are cool and some are just bishops, haha

Haha - I'm in a bishopric and my bishop is cool but he has no clue about this stuff. It's probably for the best and why he is bishop as he just focuses and helping the members and working with the youth. I have a member of the stake presidency that I talk to occasional that I am pretty sure he knows this about this kind of stuff but he never would talk about it in public.

[Red]

Is it possible that since only certain people seem to be aware in advance that the fulfillment of prophecies will occur on 23Sep2017, that many people, and perhaps even a majority of people, will still be unaware of their actual fulfillment after 23Sep2017? After all, most people on the planet are still unaware that the Father and the Son visited Joseph in the grove, or that there were many subsequent angelic visitations to Joseph.

Yep. You are spot on. I need to ask my bishop on Sunday what he thinks about September 23rd.

Is he the type to know about these things? you know, some bishops are cool and some are just bishops, haha

Haha - I'm in a bishopric and my bishop is cool but he has no clue about this stuff. It's probably for the best and why he is bishop as he just focuses and helping the members and working with the youth. I have a member of the stake presidency that I talk to occasional that I am pretty sure he knows this about this kind of stuff but he never would talk about it in public.

lol, yeah, mine sounds kinda between cool and yours. it's so funny, you can def tell the bishops who are there for their own progression and those who lean toward being there for everyone else's progression with a little of their own thrown in there.