LDS Freedom Forum

I am not even sure there are refuge cities. Some sources in the scriptures and in visions indicate there are, other sources indicate the refuge will be the home with God protecting the home, others seem to indicate there is no quarter.

I tend to think there will be safe havens. As I have studied Isaiah I see enough to indicate that there are. In Isaiah, Hezekiah is warned (21) about the invasion of Assyria. He is told to seek no allies, but to hold fast to the Lord. He is told about the cities that will be invaded or deserted on the Assyian march.

Now, as a type and shadow, I likened Hezekiah unto our modern Prophet, with Jerusalem representing SLC. If the invasion were to be taken as a type for our day, here's how it would play out:

Assyria marches from the North along established routes, going through established cities, before the halt at Nob (a hill where you can first see the temple). It conquers Libnah which is the second largest city in Judah. Now invert that map, since in the old world Galilee runs south into the Dead Sea--the new world has Utah Lake running north into the Great Salt Lake. The route would then see the moder Assyrians advancing North on I-15, overruning Provo, and being halted at the point where you see the temple (point of the mountain). At this point, the army is destroyed by the Lord. If this is the case, SLC has no invaders, although it may still be hit by nukes or be run by an internal gestapo or have riots or have plagues.

Has anybody seen scriptural sources of refuge cities where we can be safe from armies, perhaps other nasty things as well? It would make sense that interior country is the safest bet, but who knows? Moab is a wicked city so I don't that place as a good place to go. It's also along the I-70 corridor which would obvously be a great war route since its the only way to get over the San Rafeel Swell.

Our Hezakiah is our government leader, our Isaiah is our modern day Prophet. Rethink from there first!

Bob

I understand that the BofM does not reference cities of refuge? But the Bible does:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/c/61

Six cities, three on each side of Jordan (that is, Kedesh, Shechem, and Hebron, on the western side, and Bezer, Ramoth, and Golan on the eastern side), in which a man who had accidentally committed homicide could take refuge from the avenger of blood. The regulations about the use of these cities are found in Num. 35: 6-34; Deut. 19: 1-13; Josh. 20.

How does this translate to America?

bobhenstra wrote:Our Hezakiah is our government leader, our Isaiah is our modern day Prophet. Rethink from there first!

Bob

Okay, I wondered about this, your answer seemed more logical than mine, but I still see this as a type of an attack on SLC, because it is (at this time) the Holy City--my analysis would hold true then about the invasion.

However, if it were to be interpreted as New Jerusalem, we have a whole new ball park, and it would be a type for an invasion that we be turned back before the Missouri River (possibly from the East). I think I still prefer SLC as the type for this kind of invasion. Another reason is that the spokesman for Assyria laughs at the people of God stating that they had overrun much more glorious Pagan cities than Jerusalem.

truthseeds wrote:I understand that the BofM does not reference cities of refuge? But the Bible does:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/c/61

Six cities, three on each side of Jordan (that is, Kedesh, Shechem, and Hebron, on the western side, and Bezer, Ramoth, and Golan on the eastern side), in which a man who had accidentally committed homicide could take refuge from the avenger of blood. The regulations about the use of these cities are found in Num. 35: 6-34; Deut. 19: 1-13; Josh. 20.

How does this translate to America?

Is there a key to understanding ancient Israel cities in a modern context? I haven't found one. Maybe I'm supposed to find it spiritually.

The B of M certainly does reference cities of refuge, Captain Moroni (the real one ) set up several, the first being Zarahemla.


Picture this, the commander of the Army of the South who invades California, has had it pretty easy (because of the prior internal fighting), he has gone anywhere he wants. Has sacked a couple of hundred cities and towns in California and Nevada. He has captured many slaves killed the rest and finally off to get some more easy pickens. He won't make it to St George.

The army of the South will be stopped at the Virgin River Gorge, he'll have a lot of trouble making it that far! Thats a pretty long desert down there, and logistics (Re-supply lines) will be a nightmare. He will find no food or fuel among the ruined cities he enters. It'll all have to come from ships anchored off the coasts.

Lets say he makes it to the Virgin River Gorge. The defenders there (no longer, easy pickens) lets him get all his vehicles on that long narrow winding canyon, then blows the last bridges closest to St George. Then the defenders start blowing up the tanks and bridges at the other end, who's trapped? All he will be able to do is shoot until their ammunition has run out or all his men killed.

Thats where the Army of the South will be stopped and later destroyed. There's also the Army of the North to deal with!

We have a four star general as a General Authority, Robert Oaks, "Our" modern day Captain Moroni?

Bob

Bob, that sounds good, and it might work.

But where are all the arms and munitions going to come from?

Utah National Guard?

I'm not saying that it can't be done, but it's going to take some pretty big blasts to close the Gorge.

Despite all the talk of tents and tent cities, the Brethren have had very little to say about tents, and even less to say about arms and armed confrontation.

My point: Unlike the early days of the Church, at this point we don't have a very well armed or trained standing army.

That is something we seem to be very content to depend on the government to take care of.

But I'm sure when the time comes Utah will be one of the federal government's hightest priorities, and the government will have it covered. Aren't you?

Cities of refuge make sense to me; however, I think more can be understood when put into perspective of the pass over and the destroying angel. Lots of symbolism on many different levels.

Bob, that sounds good, and it might work.

But where are all the arms and munitions going to come from?

Utah National Guard?------------- No, A prepared people!

I'm not saying that it can't be done, but it's going to take some pretty big blasts to close the Gorge.

-----Just to knock down a few bridge supports?

Despite all the talk of tents and tent cities, the Brethren have had very little to say about tents, and even less to say about arms and armed confrontation.

-----Why would they? Cause more trouble with the authorities?

My point: Unlike the early days of the Church, at this point we don't have a very well armed or trained standing army.

------Ah! We're better trained then you think! However, the Lord will fight our battle with the Army of the North, all we need do with the Army of the South is stop them in their tracks and let the desert take care of them. Remember, they'll run out of supplies in a hurry. Its hard to keep a large army in supplies, especially in the desert.

That is something we seem to be very content to depend on the government to take care of.

------Thats the governments job.

But I'm sure when the time comes Utah will be one of the federal government's hightest priorities, and the government will have it covered. Aren't you?

-----Surely, you jest!

Bob

Are we not told that anyone who will not take up his sword against his brethren must flee to zion for safety?, Tent cities maybe thats what is meant by cities of refuge but, I sure as hell won't be in Utah when things kick off.

Look to the exmaple that BY used against Johnston's army. Harrassment, making supplly lines difficult to suppley forcing the army to winter down far from the SL valley. Morale went way down. No one fired on any of Johnston's troops. BY was ready to set fire to SLC. The army mached through town and settled where Fort Douglas stands today. God will provide us with whatever tools we need to defend ourselves.

I believe that we have quite a few special forces members who know about explosives. and counterinsurgeny warfare. My bet would be that the GAs called them on a defensive mission to use their skills. We MUST never go on a military offensive but use our ingenuity to defend only.

When the refugees from CA, NV, AZ to name a few come pouring into the mountains we may be forced to go on the major defensive even before the Army of the south arrives. It might be just as dangerous to have refugees around who seem harmless, but with no food, shelter or water, they might be mobbing around to get what they want. May leave you no other choice but to go on the offensive in a defensive manner.

I am seeing many people comming to idaho, Looking for Jobs, Shelters ect.. Many from California, Utah, And some from back east. Is anyone seeing this Happen in SLC or other Locations?

will wrote: Is anyone seeing this Happen in SLC or other Locations?

Yes, Cache valley. Just in my 'hood we've had families from Ogden, salt lake, Virginia, California, Georgia, Oregon, Provo, and I can't remember the other state, move here within the last year or so. And I've been trying to get out! One family moved out and headed to Dubai