The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

[freedomforall]

Seek the Mysteries

Alma 12:9-11
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

This includes you, HBMH.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Seek the Mysteries

1 Nephi 2:16
16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young,
nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to
know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord and
behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the
words which had been spoken by my father wherefore, I did not rebel
against him like unto my brothers.

Jacob 4:8
8 Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. How
unsearchable are the depths of the mysteries of him and it is
impossible that man should find out all his ways. And no man knoweth
of his ways save it be revealed unto him wherefore, brethren, despise
not the revelations of God.

1 Nephi 10:19
19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find and the mysteries of God
shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost, as well in
these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to
come wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round.

1 Nephi 1:1
1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught
somewhat in all the learning of my father and having seen many
afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly
favored of the Lord in all my days yea, having had a great knowledge
of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of
my proceedings in my days.

Mosiah 2:9
9 And these are the words which he spake and caused to be written,
saying: My brethren, all ye that have assembled yourselves together,
you that can hear my words which I shall speak unto you this day for I
have not commanded you to come up hither to trifle with the words
which I shall speak, but that you should hearken unto me, and open
your ears that ye may hear, and your hearts that ye may understand,
and your minds that the mysteries of God may be unfolded to your
view.

Ether 4:13-14
13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater
things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.
14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest
unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the
foundation of the world and it hath not come unto you, because of
unbelief.

3 Nephi 26
3 And he did expound all things, even from the beginning until the time
that he should come in his glory--yea, even all things which should
come upon the face of the earth, even until the elements should melt
with fervent heat, and the earth should be wrapt together as a scroll,
and the heavens and the earth should pass away
D&C 88:40

40 For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence wisdom receiveth
wisdom truth embraceth truth virtue loveth virtue light cleaveth unto
light mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own justice
continueth its course and claimeth its own judgment goeth before the
face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth
all things.

D&C 76:7-8
7 And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries
of my kingdom from days of old, and for ages to come, will I make
known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all things
pertaining to my kingdom.
8 Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to
come will I show them, even the things of many generations.

So, yes indeed we are to seek the mysteries.
But I have revealed no mystery here.
Where is the mystery.
I have said nothing that Joseph, Brigham, John, George, ...
have not already said.

The only mystery here is why you follow me from topic to topic
and continue to lie about what I've said and mock the revelations
and writings of the Lord's anointed.

Mormon 8:27-3
27 And it shall come in a day when the blood of saints shall cry unto
the Lord, because of secret combinations and the works of darkness.

My blood crys unto the owner of LDSFF because of your works of darkness.

[freedomforall]

Brigham says that Adam & Eve are our spirit parents.

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

Brigham says Adam is our Father and God

“Is there in the heaven of heavens a leader? Yes, and we cannot do without one and that being the case, whoever this is may be called God. Joseph said that Adam was our Father and God” (Brigham Young, Journal History, May 14, 1876, Church Archives)

Brigham says the Jesus says he is the Son of Adam

“While it is in all probability true that the gospels were originally written in Aramaic, it is even more certain that the New Testament is based upon an Old Testament-Hebraic culture and religion. This being the case, it is most significant that in the Hebrew language the word for man is Adam, hence in the some odd 84 passages in the gospels when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, it can be taken quite literally as a claim on Jesus' part that he was the son of Adam.” (The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Volume 3, pg. 327)

Brigham says Adam is Michael is Jesus's Father and our God and Joseph said it to,

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

I've just repeated what Brigham has said.

Some here aren't so gullible that they would believe just anything that isn't considered as valid doctrine, and never has been.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

This commandment applies to anyone teaching other what what canon reveals to us, even prophets when not speaking as a prophet. Best heed it.

1 Now Alma, seeing that the words of Amulek had silenced Zeezrom, for he beheld that Amulek had caught him in his lying and deceiving to destroy him, and seeing that he began to tremble under a consciousness of his guilt, he opened his mouth and began to speak unto him, and to establish the words of Amulek, and to explain things beyond, or to unfold the scriptures beyond that which Amulek had done.
2 Now the words that Alma spake unto Zeezrom were heard by the people round about; for the multitude was great, and he spake on this wise:
3 Now Zeezrom, seeing that thou hast been taken in thy lying and craftiness, for thou hast not lied unto men only but thou hast lied unto God; for behold, he knows all thy thoughts, and thou seest that thy thoughts are made known unto us by his Spirit;
4 And thou seest that we know that thy plan was a very subtle plan, as to the subtlety of the devil, for to lie and to deceive this people that thou mightest set them against us, to revile us and to cast us out—
5 Now this was a plan of thine adversary, and he hath exercised his power in thee. Now I would that ye should remember that what I say unto thee I say unto all.
6 And behold I say unto you all that this was a snare of the adversary, which he has laid to catch this people, that he might bring you into subjection unto him, that he might encircle you about with his chains, that he might chain you down to everlasting destruction, according to the power of his captivity.
7 Now when Alma had spoken these words, Zeezrom began to tremble more exceedingly, for he was convinced more and more of the power of God; and he was also convinced that Alma and Amulek had a knowledge of him, for he was convinced that they knew the thoughts and intents of his heart; for power was given unto them that they might know of these things according to the spirit of prophecy.
8 And Zeezrom began to inquire of them diligently, that he might know more concerning the kingdom of God. And he said unto Alma: What does this mean which Amulek hath spoken concerning the resurrection of the dead, that all shall rise from the dead, both the just and the unjust, and are brought to stand before God to be judged according to their works?
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
12 And Amulek hath spoken plainly concerning death, and being raised from this mortality to a state of immortality, and being brought before the bar of God, to be judged according to our works.
13 Then if our hearts have been hardened, yea, if we have hardened our hearts against the word, insomuch that it has not been found in us, then will our state be awful, for then we shall be condemned.
14 For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence.

Nowhere does this say anything about "what canon reveals to us",
Verse 9 refers to the things that Zeezrom asked of him.

This is not a mystery revealed to me.
It is an eternal truth revealed to the prophets of the restoration.
To imply that they were told, like Nephi was, not to reveal these truths
is to criticize the Lord's anointed.

There is no mystery here, these are revealed doctrines to be found in black and white for all who chose to see.
They were revealed to the Lord's anointed.
The were published by the Lord's anointed.
They were taught by the Lord's anointed.

To imply that I have revealed something I should not have is to bare false witness against me.
I make no claim what so ever that anything has been revealed to me and not the prophets of God.
To imply such is to bare false witness against me.
To imply that that Brigham revealed something he should not have is to bare false witness against the Lord's anointed.
There is no scripture that condones such behavior, only condemns it.
Your own testimony condemns you.
You would be wise to stop and bring no more condemnation upon your self.
But if you were wise you would never have started.

The whole of this quote from Alma 12 and its warnings apply to you.
Stop hardening your hart to the revealed truths of the Lord's anointed, the prophets of the restoration.
The difference is that Zeezrom recognized the great peril he has placed himself in.
Sadly, you have not. I extort, read Alma 12 and apply it to yourself, take the same steps that Zeezrom started.

10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.

The Doctrine of Eternal Lives is "the greater portion of the word".

[LoveIsTruth]

Hidingbehindmyhandle, do us all a favor and leave this thread.

You do not respond to specific questions, instead you spam this thread with pages and pages of cut and paste garbage.

Please leave.

Thanks.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Hidingbehindmyhandle, do us all a favor and leave this thread.

You do not respond to specific questions, instead you spam this thread with pages and pages of cut and paste garbage.

Please leave.

Thanks.

I don't know what specific question you are talking about, give me a reference and I'll do my best.
Just backing up what I say, if you don't like it, don't read it or leave.

[LoveIsTruth]

I don't know what specific question you are talking about, give me a reference and I'll do my best.

I post it again, for your convenience:

So you keep asserting that Adam is greater than Christ.

Consider this:

You are cursed in the name of Adam, and your are blessed in the name of Christ.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)

"And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for thy sake; ..." (Moses 4:23)

"the curse of Adam is taken from them in me [Christ]" (Moroni 8:8)

The question is:

How can the "greater" be a curse to his posterity, according to God, and He who removed the curse and saved the "greater" (and all his posterity) from the fall and death, be the "lesser"?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I don't know what specific question you are talking about, give me a reference and I'll do my best.

I post it again, for your convenience:

So you keep asserting that Adam is greater than Christ.

Consider this:

You are cursed in the name of Adam, and your are blessed in the name of Christ.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)

"And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for thy sake; ..." (Moses 4:23)

"the curse of Adam is taken from them in me [Christ]" (Moroni 8:8)

The question is:

How can the "greater" be a curse to his posterity, according to God, and He who removed the curse and saved the "greater" (and all his posterity) from the fall and death, be the "lesser"?

is this scripture, where did it come from?
You are cursed in the name of Adam, and your are blessed in the name of Christ.
I suspect it is not or it contains error

however
You are cursed in the name of Adam => For as in Adam all die
Because of Adam we have mortal bodies which contain the seeds of death, so we will die
If not for Adam, we would we would not have mortal bodies and therefore not die.

your are blessed in the name of Christ => even so in Christ shall all be made alive
after we die Christ will redeem us if ... when ...

There is nothing in these two statements that establishes any hierarchical relationship
so there is no evidence one way or another.

You will have to look else where for evidence to determine the hierarchy.

If you wish, I can provide it.
- either in straight direct statements from Brigham Young
- or follow some logic in the cannon of scripture
- or both if you chose, but I wouldn't want to offend you with too much "garbage"

what would you like?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Instead of waiting for your answer here it is, I made it as short as I could while covering as much as I could

Just to be thorough:
Adam and Michael are the same personage.

D&C 27:11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;

And Michael is not "a" but "the" archangel. (only one)

D&C 88:112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.

What is an archangel – the word is prefixed arch-angel

What is the meaning of the root word Arch?
It comes from the GREEK archos. From this basic meaning it is associated with chief or head or king or origin in one way or another. You can make many words with ARCH, from ARCHbishop to ARCHfoe, from ARCHfriend to ARCHilar.

And what is an angel?

D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King Angel
or Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones
Whereas Christ does not yet have a physical body – mortal or immortal

Ether 3:9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?

So who has greater power? Adam or Christ?
that would be Adam.
Is a person of greater power superior or subordinate to one of lesser power
that would be superior
Therefore Adam is superior to Christ.

Back to Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones would make him God the Father.
And looking at “Adam, the father of all” might make sense as the father of all the spirits that come to this world rather that father of all mortals, which he is not.

And all of the above give credibility to

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.”
(Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

At least this teaching of Brigham Young is in complete harmony with the cannon of scripture.
And of course it would.
Joseph Smith taught this to Brigham - “ and Joseph taught this principle”
Joseph Smith translated and brought forth the Book of Mormon
and the D&C is mostly revelations given to Joseph Smith
why would anyone expect anything else?

[LoveIsTruth]

I don't know what specific question you are talking about, give me a reference and I'll do my best.

I post it again, for your convenience:

So you keep asserting that Adam is greater than Christ.

Consider this:

You are cursed in the name of Adam, and your are blessed in the name of Christ.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)

"And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for thy sake; ..." (Moses 4:23)

"the curse of Adam is taken from them in me [Christ]" (Moroni 8:8)

The question is:

How can the "greater" be a curse to his posterity, according to God, and He who removed the curse and saved the "greater" (and all his posterity) from the fall and death, be the "lesser"?

You are cursed in the name of Adam => For as in Adam all die
Because of Adam we have mortal bodies which contain the seeds of death, so we will die
If not for Adam, we would we would not have mortal bodies and therefore not die.

your are blessed in the name of Christ => even so in Christ shall all be made alive
after we die Christ will redeem us if ... when ...

There is nothing in these two statements that establishes any hierarchical relationship
so there is no evidence one way or another.

Really?

• "an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: ... This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father [who's Father? Adam's Father! Therefore the Only Begotten is the Son of Adam's Father, not of Adam! It is obvious!], which is full of grace and truth.
  Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
  And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father [not of Adam!] from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will." (Moses 5:6-9)

Jesus never transgressed: "Wherefore, the Almighty God gave his Only Begotten Son, as it is written in those scriptures which have been given of him. He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them." ( D&C 20:21-22)

Adam did transgress: "Wherefore, it came to pass that the devil tempted Adam, and he partook of the forbidden fruit and transgressed the commandment, wherein he became subject to the will of the devil, because he yielded unto temptation." (D&C 29:40)

Why would the "greater" be less righteous, and therefore in need of being redeemed by the "lesser?"
Is not greatness and therefore intelligence measured by obedience to the commandments of God in the long run?
Jesus didn't need to be redeemed, because he was perfect and blameless. Adam did need redemption because he "became subject to the will of the devil, because he yielded unto temptation." (D&C 29:40) Which is greater: that which is perfect and needs no redemption, or that which is imperfect and needs redemption and a Savior?

Why would the "greater" be commanded to repent, believe in the "lesser" and be baptized in the name of the "lesser", and worship God in the name of the "lesser" forever more.

Are you out of your mind?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I don't know what specific question you are talking about, give me a reference and I'll do my best.

I post it again, for your convenience:

So you keep asserting that Adam is greater than Christ.

Consider this:

You are cursed in the name of Adam, and your are blessed in the name of Christ.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)

"And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for thy sake; ..." (Moses 4:23)

"the curse of Adam is taken from them in me [Christ]" (Moroni 8:8)

The question is:

How can the "greater" be a curse to his posterity, according to God, and He who removed the curse and saved the "greater" (and all his posterity) from the fall and death, be the "lesser"?

You are cursed in the name of Adam => For as in Adam all die
Because of Adam we have mortal bodies which contain the seeds of death, so we will die
If not for Adam, we would we would not have mortal bodies and therefore not die.

your are blessed in the name of Christ => even so in Christ shall all be made alive
after we die Christ will redeem us if ... when ...

There is nothing in these two statements that establishes any hierarchical relationship
so there is no evidence one way or another.

Really?

• "an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: ... This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father [who's Father? Adam's Father! Therefore the Only Begotten is the Son of Adam's Father, not of Adam! It is obvious!], which is full of grace and truth.
  Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
  And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father [not of Adam!] from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will." (Moses 5:6-9)

Jesus never transgressed: "Wherefore, the Almighty God gave his Only Begotten Son, as it is written in those scriptures which have been given of him. He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them." ( D&C 20:21-22)

Adam did transgress: "Wherefore, it came to pass that the devil tempted Adam, and he partook of the forbidden fruit and transgressed the commandment, wherein he became subject to the will of the devil, because he yielded unto temptation." (D&C 29:40)

Why would the "greater" be less righteous, and therefore in need of being redeemed by the "lesser?"
Is not greatness and therefore intelligence measured by obedience to the commandments of God in the long run?
Jesus didn't need to be redeemed, because he was perfect and blameless. Adam did need redemption because he "became subject to the will of the devil, because he yielded unto temptation." (D&C 29:40) Which is greater: that which is perfect and needs no redemption, or that which is imperfect and needs redemption and a Savior?

Why would the "greater" be commanded to repent, believe in the "lesser" and be baptized in the name of the "lesser", and worship God in the name of the "lesser" forever more.

Are you out of your mind?

I am under no obligation to answer you and I was really hesitant to offer yo and answer you question because I am quite tired of the mocking and critical attitude. 95% of the responses have been really negative, rude, mocking and have misrepresented what I have said. and I'm pretty sure that is going to be blamed on me as well.

So, if you really want an answer, change the attitude.
A friend and I discovered this doctrine about the same time, his attitude was like yours. he kick and faught it, but eventually he finally said "I have no choice, It is true".
where as my attitude was, "I don't understand, this is what I've been taught, how can I harmonize the two. Thing came easily and peacefully with much inspiration as to where to look. Totally different experience than my friend. However, I know of no other with a stronger testimony of this doctrine than he.

So, if you want an answer from me, treat me with a little respect and ask questions rather than criticism answers.
It's up to you, but I'm just not going to respond to that kind of attitude anymore, I don't have to.

[LoveIsTruth]

Instead of waiting for your answer here it is, I made it as short as I could while covering as much as I could

Just to be thorough:
Adam and Michael are the same personage.

D&C 27:11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;

And Michael is not "a" but "the" archangel. (only one)

D&C 88:112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.

What is an archangel – the word is prefixed arch-angel

What is the meaning of the root word Arch?
It comes from the GREEK archos. From this basic meaning it is associated with chief or head or king or origin in one way or another. You can make many words with ARCH, from ARCHbishop to ARCHfoe, from ARCHfriend to ARCHilar.

And what is an angel?

D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King Angel

So far so good.

or Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones

Now he does, after Christ's resurrection. Back then he didn't because resurrected bodies do not die, but Adam did die.

Whereas Christ does not yet have a physical body – mortal or immortal

Ether 3:9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?

Yes, back then Christ did not have a corporal body. Now he does. And only after Christ was resurrected was Adam resurrected.

"That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead," (Acts 26:23)

"Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise." ( 2 Ne. 2:8)

So who has greater power? Adam or Christ?

Which one of them has the power to redeem and resurrect the other? According to scriptures it is Christ. Christ redeemed Adam. Not the other way around!

that would be Adam.

Then you are a fool.

Is a person of greater power superior or subordinate to one of lesser power
that would be superior
Therefore Adam is superior to Christ.

As I said, you have a problem with reason, my friend. Big problem!

Back to Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones would make him God the Father.

He was not resurrected back then in the garden because he died. And resurrected bodies do not die.

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died." (Gen. 5:5) And this is according to the words of God who said to Adam, if Adam transgressed: he "shalt surely die." (Alma 12:23) Which Adam did. So he was not a resurrected personage in the garden.

And looking at “Adam, the father of all” might make sense as the father of all the spirits that come to this world rather that father of all mortals, which he is not.

He is fore-father of the mortals. That's what "father" in this context means. Because the scriptures teach we are the spirit children of the same being who created Adam.

And all of the above give credibility to

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.”
(Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

Fore-father. Not the direct Father, unless you make the words of God void.

At least this teaching of Brigham Young is in complete harmony with the cannon of scripture.

It is in complete contradiction to the canon of scripture, as I just demonstrated to you.

And of course it would.
Joseph Smith taught this to Brigham - “ and Joseph taught this principle”
Joseph Smith translated and brought forth the Book of Mormon
and the D&C is mostly revelations given to Joseph Smith
why would anyone expect anything else?

Because it contradicts the scriptures, logic, and reason, and the revealed word of God. Trifles like these.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

that would be Adam.

Then you are a fool.

Is a person of greater power superior or subordinate to one of lesser power
that would be superior
Therefore Adam is superior to Christ.

As I said, you have a problem with reason, my friend. Big problem!
Not your friend - not my problem

Then I will stop being a fool, nice talking to ya, bye

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

OK now I'm going to really raise some eyebrows, and some eyer no doubt.

I used this scripture to show that Michael is the archangel.
and indeed, Michael is always the name of the archangel - king angel - king immortal

D&C 88:112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.

And in most other places, Michael refers to Our Current Father.
But in this verse it does not, it's all about timing.
These verses refer to the time after Adam-Ondi-Aham.
After all the keys to preside over the earth have been returned to Adam, our Current Father.
And After Adam then bestows them all on Christ, because it is his world now, he bought and paid for it.
And now Christ become the Adam/Michael of the world to come.
So in this case, it refers to Our Current Christ.
So, I wonder who the next Christ is.


Believe, don't believe, whatever.

[LoveIsTruth]

You should wonder where your reason's gone. You are delirious!

[MODERATOR NOTE: this is inappropriate.]

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

You should wonder where your reason's gone. You are delirious!

That's the kind of Christian response I've come to expect from you.

[LoveIsTruth]

You should wonder where your reason's gone. You are delirious!

That's the kind of Christian response I've come to expect from you.

It's quite accurate, because you are incapable of answering questions, because if you did, honestly, the insanity of your position would be clearly manifested.

Did Adam redeem Christ, or did Christ redeem Adam?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

You should wonder where your reason's gone. You are delirious!

That's the kind of Christian response I've come to expect from you.

It's quite accurate, because you are incapable of answering questions, because if you did, honestly, the insanity of your position would be clearly manifested.

Did Adam redeem Christ, or did Christ redeem Adam?

I'm wondering what your credentials are that you can judge mental acuity and health
from a few written lines. That is amazing.

[LoveIsTruth]

Here you go again. Dodging the question, because you CANNOT answer it without revealing how insane your position really is!

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I don.t understand. you say I have mental issues but you are demanding that I answer your questions?

[LoveIsTruth]

Ha ha. I ask you questions so it may be readily apparent to those that read your responses, that your position is fundamentally insane.

For your sake though, I hope you are just a good man blinded by incorrect belief in "authority." But alas, this is a lesson you must yet learn or your fate will be like that described in (1 Kings. 13:18-24 ), where one prophet believed another in contravention to the word of God.

[MODERATOR NOTE: This comment is inappropriate]

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Ha ha. I ask you questions so it may be readily apparent to those that read your responses, that your position is fundamentally insane.

For your sake though, I hope you are just a good man blinded by incorrect believe in "authority."

Speaking of authority,
here is some authority on the subject
I suppose i have the same mental acuity and health he does

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.”
(Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

[LoveIsTruth]

Prophets can be wrong in their personal opinions. Joseph told you so. But you do not believe even him!

But this is a lesson you must yet learn or your fate will be like that described in (1 Kings. 13:18-24 ), where one prophet believed another in contravention to the word of God.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I guess it is possible the the entire First Presidency and Quorum of Apostles that taught it right up until their deaths
could be wrong. Even when they taught in public speeches, General Conference, and public newspaper, thy just might be wrong.
and even when one of them was almost excommunicated for teaching against it, but he repented and returned to full fellowship
in the 12, it still might me possible. And even the ancient early christian writings of the Churches in the years following the death of the Savior taught it, well maybe.
But I wouldn't bet on it.
It seems as though you are, but the odds are really really really long.

[LoveIsTruth]

I guess it is possible the the entire First Presidency and Quorum of Apostles that taught it right up until their deaths
could be wrong. Even when they taught in public speeches, General Conference, and public newspaper, thy just might be wrong.
and even when one of them was almost excommunicated for teaching against it, but he repented and returned to full fellowship
in the 12, it still might me possible. And even the ancient early christian writings of the Churches in the years following the death of the Savior taught it, well maybe.
But I wouldn't bet on it.
It seems as though you are, but the odds are really really really long.

The "odds" of 2+2=4 are ABSOLUTE. They are as certain as the pillars of heaven. Even more.

And unless you take Reason as your guide, you can never be saved, because Reason is the Truth, and the language of the Gods.

Reason, and the words of God, including those in canonized scriptures of this true Church tell me with ABSOLUTE certainty that Jesus saved Adam and Adam's posterity from fall and death, both spiritual and temporal, on conditions of repentance. And the Spirit of God testifies to me the same. Therefore Jesus is the Son of the Most High God, and NOT of Adam, who is a god under Jesus, and is in need of Jesus' mercy and redemption, which he certainly received.

That is my testimony to you, friend. Forgive me for being harsh. I simply found this insult to reason to be unbearable! But I am certain you mean well. You are just deluded with a false doctrine (according to Spencer W. Kimball as well).

Cheers.