Follow the Prophet is Doctrinal!

[Amonhi]

One Lord one faith -we can only have the spirit if we are agreed and have one mind. The HG will never give difference to that what the prophet is commanding ( A house divided can't stand).


Doctrine and Covenants 6:32
32 Verily, verily, I say unto you, as I said unto my disciples, where two or three are gathered together in my name, as touching one thing, behold, there will I be in the midst of them—even so am I in the midst of you.

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Matthew 18:19
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Interesting, because I fight for those who disagree with me to have the same freedoms I do. They fight for my freedoms as well. We are united in one by our desire for the freedom of thought, speech and action that we both enjoy.

If I protect the freedom of the protestant to believe what they want, and they protect my freedom to believe what I want, then we are one and united in a common cause and gladly walk side by side and hand in hand as friends.

Gods ways are higher than our ways. If this is true, then we cannot be one with God until we know all His ways. And yet we see that despite the fact that we do not know and understand all that God does, we can be one with God the way you say we need to be? If we are not one with God by believing all that he does, and Christ says if ye are not one, ye are not mine, then can any of us be considered Christ's?

You have created an impossibility.

If you want to know what being "ONE" means, see the scriptures that teach it...

24 And let every man esteem his brother as himself, and practice virtue and holiness before me.
25 And again I say unto you, let every man esteem his brother as himself.
26 For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other: Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?
27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine. - D&C 38

Can you tell me why the Lord would use that parable to explain how and why we should be one? What is he saying that being one means?

Peace,
Amonhi

[Finrock]

I don't see anywhere in the scriptures where there is this idea that "authority over the salvation of others" is given to a mortal.

It is all over the scriptures. Take baptism for example. If we must be baptized to receive salvation, and we must be baptized by someone with authority, doesn't that person who baptizes us have some authority over our salvation?

I want you to know that I have nothing but love for the LDS Church. I've stated this before and I state it again, but the Church has been nothing but good to me over the course of my life. I have no animosity towards the Church or the Church leaders. For most of my Mormon life, I believed and trusted in my Church leaders much like you and others on this forum appear to believe and trust in them. I love my bishop. I love the apostles. I love General Conference. I make all of my children at least bring a notepad and a writing tool when we gather around to listen during GC time. I don't force them to listen or to pay attention, but my hope is that they will see that time as an opportunity to be taught by the Holy Spirit. I love taking my family to Church. I love serving in the Church. I love helping the Church. I sustain the leaders of the Church. I pray for them and I do my part in my Ward to fulfill my callings and support my Ward family. This love that I have for the Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a huge motivator/factor for why I even care and participate on these forums. Lastly, I feel that I am aligned with most all of the apostles (both living and dead) in my perspective because it is in large measure through their words that the Spirit has lead me to where I am at.

Although the Church is good and wonderful and I am fiercely loyal to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Church is not perfect. The head is Christ. All authority comes from Christ. The only way a person has access to Christ's authority is by the principles of righteousness. The Church has a priesthood and then there is the priesthood of God. They are not the same thing. Although I believe most men in the Church are good men, all men are fallible mortals. The Church is not perfect because the people who are a part of the Church (including myself) and the people which make up the Church and the people who lead the Church, are not perfect (including myself). This means that what happens in the Church will not always match up with what is happening in Heaven. One day this will not be the case, but at the moment, the records on Earth do not match up with the records in Heaven. I hope that last statement makes sense to you...What that means in a practical sense is that it is possible (and according to scripture quite common) that a person who is not worthy to exercise God's priesthood (because they are living in sin) can have the Church priesthood conferred upon them and they can have authority to function in the Church, to do work in the Church, and to even lead in the Church. These individuals, whoever they may be, but we can be sure that they exist, would be performing priesthood ordinances without authority from God. Why is this true? Because we know from scripture that God's priesthood can only be controlled by the principles of righteousness. Only when a person is acting under the direction of the Spirit are they speaking and acting for God. And, acting under the direction of the Spirit is not an automatic thing just because you have been ordained to a particular office in the priesthood.

The problem may come from confusion about ordinances. I can't remember if you are among those who believe ordinances are not necessary for salvation.

Concerning the outward ordinances, in the not too distant past God shook my paradigm apart and showed me a better way about the outward ordinances of the Gospel. I emphasize God because I would like to stress at this point that I received these impressions and thoughts before I ever knew of or read from the likes of Amonhi or Stahura, or anyone else. My point is that I am an independent...witness, I guess is the best term to use here.

I'm going to use some posts I made a few months ago with some modifications to answer you inquiry, so if you've seen these before, that is why:

Isaiah prophesied that in the last days the Lord's covenant people would replace true spirituality with rituals. Rituals, or ordinances, have substituted or replaced true spirituality. The false idea of our day is that if you perform the ritual (ordinance), that makes you good. What is missed is that the true ordinance is the work that is done to one's heart, to their spirit.

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Since I've been born again I have realized that the outward ordinances are dead and that only by having the love of God in our hearts can we live. I want to do and be good. I am not perfect. I am terribly flawed and would you know all of my flaws you would likely think I were a fraud, but I know what I feel in my heart and I know now what God requires of me. Not empty ordinances, but He wants me to be kind, gentle, loving, good, and to uplift others. He wants me to love my enemy as well as my neighbor.

I go to the temple frequently too. However, when I go I don't think that my actions make me good or alive. I go there because God has commanded it and because I use the experience how I believe it is intended, which is to learn how to converse with the Lord through the veil. I love the temple. However, doing the ritual doesn't make anyone good. I think the ritual is pointing me to something that is internal. Just as the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, the ordinances were made for man, not man for the ordinances. They are dead. They point to someone who is alive, Jesus Christ.

Concerning the temple ordinances I believe they are pointing you to something that is real. The ritual that you do in the temple, no matter how many times you do it, does not bestow power upon you or make you good or anyone else good. The physical actions point to something that is internal and real. Instead of a symbolic parting, there is a real parting. Instead of symbolic angels, there are real angels. Instead of acting good, there is internal good, which can not be played out on a stage or emulated by empty actions. I believe all the ordinances are necessary, I just don't think the physical ordinances constitute the necessary ordinances. I think they point to something that is internal/spiritual.

I am on this earth to learn to distinguish between the good and the evil. God has given me every tool He can for this end. At whatever stage of life I am in, God has given me a way up. I use everything He gives me, realizing that at the end of the day, I have to feel good about myself, my conscience must be clear, and I must be internally at peace. I am saying that in my life that feeling good about myself, having peace, and having a clear conscience, has come from giving my sins over to God and allowing Him to change my heart so that I can have His Spirit to be with me. Learning to live by the Spirit, which is inside of me, has been the struggle of my life. It has truly been a struggle! It is in recognizing that I am a spirit of God and He can make me holy and in knowing who I am and what I am has been key!

The external, physically ordinances, in every case in my life, have pointed to an internal change or to something spiritual. I have done the actions a "million" times and yet I lived in hell. The outward ordinances never did set me free.

As good as the Church and the people who I've interacted with have been, God has been greater to the nth degree. It is Jesus Christ who ultimately set me free from the prison of darkness I was trapped in for very much of my life. This statement is an understatement. I can't say in words what this really means to me.

-Finrock

[Spaced_Out]

If I protect the freedom of the protestant to believe what they want, and they protect my freedom to believe what I want, then we are one and united in a common cause and gladly walk side by side and hand in hand as friends.

Gods ways are higher than our ways. If this is true, then we cannot be one with God until we know all His ways. And yet we see that despite the fact that we do not know and understand all that God does, we can be one with God the way you say we need to be? If we are not one with God by believing all that he does, and Christ says if ye are not one, ye are not mine, then can any of us be considered Christ's?

You have created an impossibility.

Peace,
Amonhi

You make some serious poor judgement calls. Yes we are commanded to do the impossible..
The G_d head is one - we are commanded to be one with them, and be prefect like them.
G_d's kingdom is not a democracy where there is dissent and decision goes to the most votes. To liken the kingdom of G_d or his church on earth to a democracy is folly.

Doctrine and Covenants 78:14
14 That through my providence, notwithstanding the tribulation which shall descend upon you, that the church may stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world;

We can indeed be one with G_d if our hearts mind and will are the same as his, and we are gathered together and are agreed as to the principle or thing that G_d is requiring of us. It is so commanded in the scriptures.

You may not have felt it or understand the higher way and are like Nephi older brothers and complain that it is impossible when it is very possible.

Don't comment till you watch this - how to be one and make decisions follow the Prophets and how they disagree and come to one understanding - very easy if you follow the pattern used in the Church.

[Spaced_Out]

There is only one truth and only one way forward that will be of the greatest benefit and in line with G_d will, if you have the Spirit as you claim - why would it give people different knowledge.

[Isaiah]

Those that "follow the prophet" - let them be - that's just where they are at right now.
They will find out sometime that the prophet also follows the same person that we do -
even Jesus Christ.

[Isaiah]

I don't see anywhere in the scriptures where there is this idea that "authority over the salvation of others" is given to a mortal.

It is all over the scriptures. Take baptism for example. If we must be baptized to receive salvation, and we must be baptized by someone with authority, doesn't that person who baptizes us have some authority over our salvation?

I want you to know that I have nothing but love for the LDS Church. I've stated this before and I state it again, but the Church has been nothing but good to me over the course of my life. I have no animosity towards the Church or the Church leaders. For most of my Mormon life, I believed and trusted in my Church leaders much like you and others on this forum appear to believe and trust in them. I love my bishop. I love the apostles. I love General Conference. I make all of my children at least bring a notepad and a writing tool when we gather around to listen during GC time. I don't force them to listen or to pay attention, but my hope is that they will see that time as an opportunity to be taught by the Holy Spirit. I love taking my family to Church. I love serving in the Church. I love helping the Church. I sustain the leaders of the Church. I pray for them and I do my part in my Ward to fulfill my callings and support my Ward family. This love that I have for the Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a huge motivator/factor for why I even care and participate on these forums. Lastly, I feel that I am aligned with most all of the apostles (both living and dead) in my perspective because it is in large measure through their words that the Spirit has lead me to where I am at.

Although the Church is good and wonderful and I am fiercely loyal to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Church is not perfect. The head is Christ. All authority comes from Christ. The only way a person has access to Christ's authority is by the principles of righteousness. The Church has a priesthood and then there is the priesthood of God. They are not the same thing. Although I believe most men in the Church are good men, all men are fallible mortals. The Church is not perfect because the people who are a part of the Church (including myself) and the people which make up the Church and the people who lead the Church, are not perfect (including myself). This means that what happens in the Church will not always match up with what is happening in Heaven. One day this will not be the case, but at the moment, the records on Earth do not match up with the records in Heaven. I hope that last statement makes sense to you...What that means in a practical sense is that it is possible (and according to scripture quite common) that a person who is not worthy to exercise God's priesthood (because they are living in sin) can have the Church priesthood conferred upon them and they can have authority to function in the Church, to do work in the Church, and to even lead in the Church. These individuals, whoever they may be, but we can be sure that they exist, would be performing priesthood ordinances without authority from God. Why is this true? Because we know from scripture that God's priesthood can only be controlled by the principles of righteousness. Only when a person is acting under the direction of the Spirit are they speaking and acting for God. And, acting under the direction of the Spirit is not an automatic thing just because you have been ordained to a particular office in the priesthood.

The problem may come from confusion about ordinances. I can't remember if you are among those who believe ordinances are not necessary for salvation.

Concerning the outward ordinances, in the not too distant past God shook my paradigm apart and showed me a better way about the outward ordinances of the Gospel. I emphasize God because I would like to stress at this point that I received these impressions and thoughts before I ever knew of or read from the likes of Amonhi or Stahura, or anyone else. My point is that I am an independent...witness, I guess is the best term to use here.

I'm going to use some posts I made a few months ago with some modifications to answer you inquiry, so if you've seen these before, that is why:

Isaiah prophesied that in the last days the Lord's covenant people would replace true spirituality with rituals. Rituals, or ordinances, have substituted or replaced true spirituality. The false idea of our day is that if you perform the ritual (ordinance), that makes you good. What is missed is that the true ordinance is the work that is done to one's heart, to their spirit.

11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Since I've been born again I have realized that the outward ordinances are dead and that only by having the love of God in our hearts can we live. I want to do and be good. I am not perfect. I am terribly flawed and would you know all of my flaws you would likely think I were a fraud, but I know what I feel in my heart and I know now what God requires of me. Not empty ordinances, but He wants me to be kind, gentle, loving, good, and to uplift others. He wants me to love my enemy as well as my neighbor.

I go to the temple frequently too. However, when I go I don't think that my actions make me good or alive. I go there because God has commanded it and because I use the experience how I believe it is intended, which is to learn how to converse with the Lord through the veil. I love the temple. However, doing the ritual doesn't make anyone good. I think the ritual is pointing me to something that is internal. Just as the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, the ordinances were made for man, not man for the ordinances. They are dead. They point to someone who is alive, Jesus Christ.

Concerning the temple ordinances I believe they are pointing you to something that is real. The ritual that you do in the temple, no matter how many times you do it, does not bestow power upon you or make you good or anyone else good. The physical actions point to something that is internal and real. Instead of a symbolic parting, there is a real parting. Instead of symbolic angels, there are real angels. Instead of acting good, there is internal good, which can not be played out on a stage or emulated by empty actions. I believe all the ordinances are necessary, I just don't think the physical ordinances constitute the necessary ordinances. I think they point to something that is internal/spiritual.

I am on this earth to learn to distinguish between the good and the evil. God has given me every tool He can for this end. At whatever stage of life I am in, God has given me a way up. I use everything He gives me, realizing that at the end of the day, I have to feel good about myself, my conscience must be clear, and I must be internally at peace. I am saying that in my life that feeling good about myself, having peace, and having a clear conscience, has come from giving my sins over to God and allowing Him to change my heart so that I can have His Spirit to be with me. Learning to live by the Spirit, which is inside of me, has been the struggle of my life. It has truly been a struggle! It is in recognizing that I am a spirit of God and He can make me holy and in knowing who I am and what I am has been key!

The external, physically ordinances, in every case in my life, have pointed to an internal change or to something spiritual. I have done the actions a "million" times and yet I lived in hell. The outward ordinances never did set me free.

As good as the Church and the people who I've interacted with have been, God has been greater to the nth degree. It is Jesus Christ who ultimately set me free from the prison of darkness I was trapped in for very much of my life. This statement is an understatement. I can't say in words what this really means to me.

-Finrock

D&C 29:
34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.

35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual.

[rewcox]

Those that "follow the prophet" - let them be - that's just where they are at right now.
They will find out sometime that the prophet also follows the same person that we do -
even Jesus Christ.

You're out in apostasy land. Here is some Jacob for you, he knew Jesus in his youth. Read 2N9, that can help you:

2 That he has spoken unto the Jews, by the mouth of his holy prophets, even from the beginning down..until the time comes that they shall be restored to the true church and fold of God (that would be The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)

40 O, my beloved brethren, give ear to my words.

44 O, my beloved brethren, remember my words.

47 But behold, my brethren, is it expedient that I should awake you to an awful reality of these things? Would I harrow up your souls if your minds were pure? Would I be plain unto you according to the plainness of the truth if ye were freed from sin?

48 Behold, if ye were holy I would speak unto you of holiness; but as ye are not holy, and ye look upon me as a teacher, it must needs be expedient that I teach you the consequences of sin.

Repent you guys! Hearken, heed, follow the prophet!

[Amonhi]

There is only one truth and only one way forward that will be of the greatest benefit and in line with G_d will, if you have the Spirit as you claim - why would it give people different knowledge.

Because we all are coming from different directions, different backgrounds, different everything. We need a custom plan that addresses our own strengths and weaknesses. If you teach everyone the same thing, then you will mislead almost all of them. Watch this video that explains why:

[Isaiah]

Feast upon the words of Christ.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY one we need to look to.

We need to put our faith in Christ - and not in the church and it's leaders.
It's CHRIST'S church and we need to look to him
and have his spirit with us to guide and direct us.
He's the one that died for us and the ONLY one that can save us.

Christ teaching.jpg (77.36 KiB) Viewed 1192 times

You can't live or be saved on borrowed light.
If you follow the prophet or the GA's of the church
expecting to be saved, you will be lost.
You can not follow someone into heaven.

Following the prophet can't save you.
Going to church won't save you.
Have you forgotten who's church this is !
JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY ONE that can save YOU !
seek to know him ! the one that died for YOU !

John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

2 Nephi 25:26
"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ,
we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ,
and we write according to our prophecies,
that our children may know to what source
they may look for a remission of their sins."

2 Nephi 31:20
"Wherefore, ye must press forward
with a steadfastness in Christ,
having a perfect brightness of hope,
and a love of God and of all men.
Wherefore, if ye shall press forward,
feasting upon the word of Christ,
and endure to the end, behold,
thus saith the Father:
Ye shall have eternal life."

2 Nephi 32
3 "Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."

3 Nephi 11
36 "And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one."

[rewcox]

Some thing for you guys to ponder:

- God is not a respecter of persons. That would include you.

- If you come to Christ, you will have Charity, and you will be One with Christ and God.

- God's glory is the immortality and eternal life of His Children.

So if you are One with Christ and God, and you have Charity, then you support His Church, and His Leaders.

Repent.

[BTH&T]

This topic is like so many of the type that the "dissenters" love to spew doubt and at the same time try to rationalize why they are "in the right".

There is only one way period no discussion, no debate.

The teachings of man are and will be twisted. The father of lies sees to that.
It is useless to try and "prove" truth to those that have not the spirit of truth, they do not recognize it.
Even the simplest and obvious truths elude them.

We are told to be submissive, humble and teachable. Following a Prophet is one of the commandments that is asked of us.
BUT we are free to choose for ourselves if we will.
That doesn't mean we make our own way. Sure we each come from a variety of backgrounds and circumstances.
It doesn't mean we each are treated different. The same rules apply to all.
We will each be JUDGED uniquely by a loving God who knows us better than we know ourselves.

This Gospel is so simple, why are so many confused?
(Rhetorical, I know the answer)

[Amonhi]

Again, you are assuming that we aren't, yet we have used quotes, references and scriptures that teach what we are saying. You are calling Elder McConkie to repent and support His Church and His leaders. You are calling Brigham Young to repent and support His Church and His leaders...

And, You are telling the Lord to repent and support His Church and His leaders and to not say that "Almost 100%" of them immediately exercise unrighteous dominion immediately upon being called into positions of authority. He isn't supporting His leaders you say. Well, if they lose the spirit because they are exercising unrighteous dominion, persecuting the saints and fighting against God, then why would He support them? (D&C 121)

If they have the spirit, then they have the powers of heaven supporting them and they have my support.

Do you support Richard R. Lyman and everything he did as an apostle during the 18 years that he was having an affair as an apostle with out the knowledge of the Church? Do you suppose that everything he taught during that time was uninfluenced by his beliefs, actions and choices? Do you think that he had the spirit with him in everything he was doing and saying during that time? If so, then why did the church excommunicate him when they discovered what he was doing? If he was doing great, then why not let him continue?

In 1943, the First Presidency discovered that Lyman had long been cohabiting with a woman other than his legal wife. In 1925, Lyman began his relationship with Anna Jacobsen Hegsted,[4] which he defined as a plural marriage. Unable to trust anyone to officiate at the wedding due to the church's ban on the practice, Lyman and Hegsted exchanged vows secretly. By 1943, both were in their seventies. Lyman was excommunicated on November 12, 1943, at age 73; at the time, his legal wife, Amy B. Lyman, was the general president of the Relief Society. The Quorum of the Twelve provided the newspapers with a one-sentence announcement, stating that the grounds for excommunication was a violation of the law of chastity, which was the standard interpretation of new plural marriages performed since the 1904 Second Manifesto. - Wikipedia Richard R. Lyman

What about Apostle Albert Carrington? He was sleeping with prostitutes while performing his duties as an apostle fr 8 years. He justified himself in his actions because he claimed that he didn't ejaculate inside the women that he had sexual relations with, so it was ok... Do you think that he was being inspired by the spirit in everything he did and said and believed? Do you think that the Lord supported his leader and Apostle Elder Albert Carrington because of his calling and priesthood? And if so, then why was he excommunicated by the church when they finally got him to confess?

Carrington was excommunicated from the LDS Church by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles on November 7, 1885, for adultery, fornication, and "lewd and lascivious conduct".[2] Carrington's extramarital relationships had begun in England while he was the mission president; he had hid these relationships from the leaders of the church for over 10 years and had lied to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles about them when rumors about Carrington began spreading.[2] (The Salt Lake Tribune first accused Carrington of adultery in 1875.)[4] In 1885, Carrington argued before the Twelve that because he did not ejaculate inside the women he had sexual relations with, he had technically not committed adultery, but had simply committed "a little folly in Israel".[2] The Quorum disagreed and excommunicated him. - Wikipedia Albert Carrington

I have no issue with supporting the leaders when they are acting under the direction of the Holy Ghost. But when the Holy Ghost leaves, not only do they have an Amen to their priesthood, but without knowing it, they kick against the pricks, persecute the saints and fight against God.

37 That they (the rights of the priesthood) may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.

You are saying that we should support our leaders when the spirit withdraws because they are still our leaders. Who cares if they are persecuting the saints. Who cares if they are fighting against God, support them anyway! If you support your leaders when they are persecuting the saints and fighting against God, then you are also persecuting the saints and fighting against God. That is what you are supporting when you support a position rather than the spirit. That is what you are telling us to do.

You are saying that we should support and obey our leaders because they are our leaders. The Lord said that he removes His support by taking away the powers of heaven and the spirit and the priesthood when they don't deserve it. The Lord says this is what he does with almost 100% of the men that are given even a little authority in the church because they abuse their authority.

If you support and follow men because they have a little authority as they suppose, then you support and follow them in fighting against God. If you support and follow the spirit, then you will never be found persecuting the saints and fighting against God. Follow the spirit, not fallible men who YOU think have a little authority.

If a leader or anyone is acting by the spirit, then support them as you support God because they are acting for God.

Peace,
Amonhi

[Amonhi]

It's funny how in the old endowment ceremony, they had the participants (US) listening to a sermon taught by a preacher who was being instructed by the devil on what to say. We as the participants sang a hymn in that congregation showing that we were part of the congregation who was listening to the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

Scripture is only what the Holy Ghost witnesses to be true. Everything else is the philosophies of men.

Scriptures — The Guide to the Scriptures
Words, both written and spoken, by holy men of God when moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

Doctrine and Covenants 68:4
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

There is no doubt that at every level of the church, the prophet included that we teach scripture by the power of the Holy Ghost. It is also clear that at every level of the church, the prophet included we also teach the philosophies of men which are mingled with the scripture and words of the Holy Ghost. It is a fact, it happens. I became keenly aware of this during the temple endowment ceremony.

If we believe everything taught by men, even men in authority, then we will be blinded by the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. We may even be honorable men of the earth, and we will inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom. At some point, if we are to remain valiant to the testimony we received of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost, then we must trust in the Holy Ghost above all else and accept that IT IS the VOICE OF GOD. It is how we trust in God, and IT alone can lead us back to God which is its source. This I know of a certainty. This I know from first hand experience as I have followed the Holy Ghost back to God and entered back into Christ's presence to be held by him and taught by him directly. I have seen God for myself and know for myself that there is no other path than to follow the spirit back to God. I am not guessing on this topic and I can not emphasize it enough.

All this while, I (and others), have shown you the scriptures, and you refuse to see. You refuse to consider that what you have been taught by the church could be incorrect. You are afraid to put all your trust in that spirit which is God's voice. You, like the children of Israel, want Moses or his modern counter part to speak to God for you rather than to speak to God for yourselves and enter back into His presence to learn from His directly. You feel safe in following the prophet and do not trust in the spirit which is the voice of God. You do not trust God who speaks by the voice of His spirit. You put your trust in manuals, leaders and positions. All these things have an end when men are dead. They have no power in or after the resurrection. ONLY that which is sealed by the promise of the Holy Spirit will remain after the resurrection. Only that which God has sanctioned will have power in heaven, power to save, power to exalt. And God accepts nothing without the witness and seal of His holy spirit. If you cannot trust God's word and God's spirit, then it doesn't matter what you put your faith in, it will fail you. There is only one rock on which if you build you cannot fall. That rock is not the prophet. That rock is not the church.

If you do not have oil in your lamp enough to guide yourself without relying on the light of others, then you will not be welcomed when the groom comes. You will not have a place in the Celestial Kingdom with the Gods. If you cannot hear the voice of the Lord and trust him, then you will not be accepted by him as his sheep and his church that worship in his name. It doesn't matter if you are baptized into the LDS Church or how well you follow the prophets and leaders of the church. What matters is how well you follow the spirit... How well you follow HIS Voice and His words... How well you " do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall commands". If you place a man, any man even a prophet, above the spirit, and give that man more influence in your life than you give the spirit, then you have placed a man above God voice and God's voice is God's will.

The scriptures and quotes have been given as a testimony and a witness to these things. They say them so clearly and all you have to do is look and see without the blinders of bias and the precepts of men you have been taught. The Lord so clearly taught, "No power or influence ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood" and yet you defy the Lord and say it should be and call the Lord's words evil and say to us, Repent for believing the Lord, repent for trusting in His voice above all others. You say to us that we are wrong and yet we are in His presence. He has called us friends and blessed us with His own hands and taught us with His own voice.

The blind see only that which they are willing to see. And for this reason, I leave you with my witness and my testimony and the power of God in me along with all the witnesses you have already been given and do so in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

[Spaced_Out]

Some thing for you guys to ponder:

- God is not a respecter of persons. That would include you.

- If you come to Christ, you will have Charity, and you will be One with Christ and God.

- God's glory is the immortality and eternal life of His Children.

So if you are One with Christ and God, and you have Charity, then you support His Church, and His Leaders.

Repent.

Agree. There entire argument is that a human can sometimes be subject to weakness and make mistakes. If the first presidency of the LDS church send out a notification on what to do then it is three persons that are in agreement, the chance for some human weakness to creep in is zero..

[Spaced_Out]

If you cannot trust God's word and God's spirit, then it doesn't matter what you put your faith in, it will fail you. There is only one rock on which if you build you cannot fall. That rock is not the prophet. That rock is not the church.

G_d word is the scriptures from the prophets and that which they speak to us the living mouth piece of G_d.

God is no respecter of persons - that is true when it come to his love.

Unto whom much is given much is required - we are not all given the same - G_d reveals much to his prophets and we get the word from them, all the scriptures you quote came from the prophets - if one just has the HG without scripture - the people perish - likewise without a teaching priest the people perish.

Again to say you accept Christ but not his Prophets you are of the telestrial order, because you don't accept what G_d has given you.

2 Chro 15: 3 Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.
4 But when they in their trouble did turn unto the Lord God of Israel, and sought him, he was found of them.


Luke 12:48
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

1 Nephi 1:1
1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

D&C 76:98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;

[Ezra]

Some thing for you guys to ponder:

- God is not a respecter of persons. That would include you.

- If you come to Christ, you will have Charity, and you will be One with Christ and God.

- God's glory is the immortality and eternal life of His Children.

So if you are One with Christ and God, and you have Charity, then you support His Church, and His Leaders.

Repent.

Agree. There entire argument is that a human can sometimes be subject to weakness and make mistakes. If the first presidency of the LDS church send out a notification on what to do then it is three persons that are in agreement, the chance for some human weakness to creep in is zero..

The fact remains that it's God who is the one who defines who are his. And as d&c 121 33-43 points out the majority of lds are not. D&c 76:75 points out that good honest honorable men of the earth who are simply blinded by the craftiness of men are not bound for the celestial kingdom. That could could mean even general authorities. Who are good honest men.

By living correctly one would naturally have charity and support for not only church leaders and his church but also (all) his neighbors and all of Their respective churches.

[BruceRGilbert]

3 Nephi 8:
25 And in another place they were heard to cry and mourn, saying: O that we had repented before this great and terrible day, and had not killed and stoned the prophets, and cast them out; then would our mothers and our fair daughters, and our children have been spared, and not have been buried up in that great city Moronihah. And thus were the howlings of the people great and terrible.

Standing in holy places, covenants are entered into whereby evil speaking of the Lord's anointed is to be avoided. Disparaging remarks directed at the Lord's servants amount to "verbal stoning." He has said that inasmuch as ye do it unto the least of these my servants, ye have done it unto me. Oh, man who supposeth that you are something, consider your ways and repent. History is going to repeat itself.

2 Nephi 26:
5 And they that kill the prophets, and the saints, the depths of the earth shall swallow them up, saith the Lord of Hosts; and mountains shall cover them, and whirlwinds shall carry them away, and buildings shall fall upon them and crush them to pieces and grind them to powder.
6 And they shall be visited with thunderings, and lightnings, and earthquakes, and all manner of destructions, for the fire of the anger of the Lord shall be kindled against them, and they shall be as stubble, and the day that cometh shall consume them, saith the Lord of Hosts.

2 Nephi 26:
8 But behold, the righteous that hearken unto the words of the prophets, and destroy them not, but look forward unto Christ with steadfastness for the signs which are given, notwithstanding all persecution—behold, they are they which shall not perish.
9 But the Son of Righteousness shall appear unto them; and he shall heal them, and they shall have peace with him, until three generations shall have passed away, and many of the fourth generation shall have passed away in righteousness.

2 Nephi 26:
20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block, that they have built up many churches; nevertheless, they put down the power and miracles of God, and preach up unto themselves their own wisdom and their own learning, that they may get gain and grind upon the face of the poor.
21 And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice.
22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.
23 For behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the Lord God worketh not in darkness.
24 He doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world; for he loveth the world, even that he layeth down his own life that he may draw call men unto him. Wherefore, he commandeth none that they shall not partake of his salvation.
25 Behold, doth he cry unto any, saying: Depart from me? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; but he saith: Come unto me all ye ends of the earth, buy milk and honey, without money and without price.
26 Behold, hath he commanded any that they should depart out of the synagogues, or out of the houses of worship? Behold, I say unto you, Nay.
27 Hath he commanded any that they should not partake of his salvation? Behold I say unto you, Nay; but he hath given it free for all men; and he hath commanded his people that they should persuade all men to repentance.
28 Behold, hath the Lord commanded any that they should not partake of his goodness? Behold I say unto you, Nay; but all men are privileged the one like unto the other, and none are forbidden.
29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.
30 Behold, the Lord hath forbidden this thing; wherefore, the Lord God hath given a commandment that all men should have charity, which charity is love. And except they should have charity they were nothing. Wherefore, if they should have charity they would not suffer the laborer in Zion to perish.
31 But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish.
32 And again, the Lord God hath commanded that men should not murder; that they should not lie; that they should not steal; that they should not take the name of the Lord their God in vain; that they should not envy; that they should not have malice; that they should not contend one with another; that they should not commit whoredoms; and that they should do none of these things; for whoso doeth them shall perish.
33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

Romans 16:
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

[Spaced_Out]

Romans 16:
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Amen

[Spaced_Out]

The fact remains that it's God who is the one who defines who are his. And as d&c 121 33-43 points out the majority of lds are not.

It is not a fact but your blasphemous interpretation, you take it upon yourself to judge the majority of the LDS - we will talk again at the day of judgement.

G_d has called his great and noble ones and set them as prophets to guide his church in the last days, to think otherwise is apostasy, going against His (Jesus) anointed, called and chosen Apostles.

Section 121 33-43 can be likened unto the parable of the sower who sowed seeds - some fell on stony ground and when the sun came up burnt them for they had no root and they left the church and fought against the apostles. To say it is the prophets who are no stony ground with no root -??? - judgement time.

[Amonhi]

Some thing for you guys to ponder:

- God is not a respecter of persons. That would include you.

- If you come to Christ, you will have Charity, and you will be One with Christ and God.

- God's glory is the immortality and eternal life of His Children.

So if you are One with Christ and God, and you have Charity, then you support His Church, and His Leaders.

Repent.

Agree. There entire argument is that a human can sometimes be subject to weakness and make mistakes. If the first presidency of the LDS church send out a notification on what to do then it is three persons that are in agreement, the chance for some human weakness to creep in is zero..

Do you remember any of the doctrines taught about blacks that were accepted by the entire church from the top down as doctrine which are now disavowed by the church in the recent essay on the church doctrine and history regarding the blacks put out by the church? Our current church calls the past leaders and Prophets Prejudiced. There are so many things that the church had changed like the law of tithing which we currently live differently than Joseph taught it, the church lived it and than it is spelled out in the scriptures and the church just recently realized it and says, "wow, that's interesting that we don't do it the same as they did..." The Lord said it would be a standing law to us forever and we don't even live or know what he taught us about tithing in the scriptures..." That zero thing just doesn't hold up to history.

But, what you are trying to do by saying that the chances for human weakness come close to zero is to negate the risk in your own mind. Pretend it doesn't exist. Your pretending that following the Prophet (or now the first presidency who is even less likely to be led astray than the prophet, you say...), is safe and secure. Besides contradicting the quotes from previous prophets and the scriptures which I provided that say we should not do this, you are attempting to make the prophet, (or just now the First Presidency of the church), the rock or sure foundation. You are trying to say, that the chances of them leading us astray are near zero, so they are a sure foundation which we can rely on and trust and build on and not fall. However, this does not match up with the scriptures. There is a rock on which if we build we cannot fall. But there is only one rock that we are told will be a sure foundation. We are told that building on anything else....Anything or anyone else is a sandy foundation and if we build on the sand, then we will fall.

I have been mentioning that the prophet was not the rock on which if we build we cannot fall for some time. I figured that I should spell it out for all of you... Here is what he Lord taught that you are contradicting...

11 And this shall ye always do to those who repent and are baptized in my name; and ye shall do it in remembrance of my blood, which I have shed for you, that ye may witness unto the Father that ye do always remember me. And if ye do always remember me ye shall have my Spirit to be with you.
12 And I give unto you a commandment that ye shall do these things. And if ye shall always do these things blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock.
13 But whoso among you shall do more or less than these are not built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation; and when the rain descends, and the floods come, and the winds blow, and beat upon them, they shall fall, and the gates of hell are ready open to receive them. - 3 Nephi 18

Now, that is VERY specific!!! And there is no mention of follow the prophet. It says, repent and be baptized and always remember Christ and if you do this correctly, then you will have the spirit to be with you... If you have the spirit to be with you, THEN "blessed are ye, for ye are built upon my rock." That is a direct quote. And then he tells is that if we do more than this, for example follow the prophet rather than rely on the spirit, or not get the spirit because we didn't truly repent, THEN he tells us, we "are NOT built upon my rock, but are built upon a sandy foundation...and the gates of hell are ready open to receive them."

Can you tell me what the rock is that is the sure foundation that if we build on, we will not fall?
Can you tell me of any other thing that the Lord says we can build on and not fall?
Can you find prophets mentioned here?

So, I looked up the other scriptures that talk about the rock and sure enough, none of them mentions a prophet or following a prophet or obeying a prophet. But every one of them mentions the Holy Ghost directly, (One mentioned it indirectly saying that the Rock was Christ and we have to build on Christ which is the same because the Holy Ghost is the voice of the Lord and gives us the words of Christ that tell us all things that we should do. So following the Holy Ghost is actually building on Christ, see Hel. 5:12)

Notice the role of the Holy Ghost in relation to the rock or that thing that has a "chance for some human weakness of zero.." not near zero, just zero.

11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.
12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;
13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. - D&C 33

24 Build upon my rock, which is my gospel;
25 Deny not the spirit of revelation, nor the spirit of prophecy, for wo unto him that denieth these things; - D&C 11

35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.
37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.
38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them. - 3 Nephi 11

24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
27 Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no more!
28 And in fine, wo unto all those who tremble, and are angry because of the truth of God! For behold, he that is built upon the rock receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy foundation trembleth lest he shall fall. - 2 Nephi 28

The is not a reference in scripture that says that if we follow the prophet we are build on the rock from which we can't fall. The Prophet is not the rock. Trying to make yourself feel comfortable in trusting the prophet or First Presidency because they are going to achieve a near zero human error is fooling yourself. If you want to know the rock on which you should built your life, you have just been shown it in the scriptures. Not just once, but repeatedly. Either build on the rock or build on sand.

In addition, did you see what the Lord said in D&C 33?

11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.
12 Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved;
13 And upon this rock I will build my church; yea, upon this rock ye are built, and if ye continue, the gates of hell shall not prevail against you. - D&C 33

The church is not built on the rock of the prophet... The Lord said he is building his church on a rock, but not the prophet. It is the rock of his gospel which is faith, repentance, baptism and then, for the true followers, comes the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost which is the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost which we learn from Nephi will tell us the words of Christ and all things what we should do. The Lord says that this is what he is building his church on. Every member should have the gift of the Holy Ghost to tell them what to do and so every member of the Church should be built on the rock. Not the prophet...

You said that the

There entire argument is that a human can sometimes be subject to weakness and make mistakes.

You are mistaken. That was the argument put forth by some of the quotes from Pophets like President Brigham Young which you ignore, and some of the others which you also ignore. But that is not the entire argument. And Yes it has been shown to be valid over and over again.There are so many strong arguments that you, Freedomforall and Rewcox either agree with or refuse to even challenge that it is ridiculous to say that our entire argument rests on one point.

The Lord has taught in so many ways that we are not to rely on the arm of flesh, but on the spirit which doesn't have an arm of flesh. But you just won't hear it. He said it so many ways... Here is another... where he addressed both sides of the issue saying that not only should we not trust in the arm of flesh and believe those trying to councel us, but they should not be trying to councel us. (Persuade is different than councel...) Instead, we each should be learning to speak in the name of the Lord. Not just the prophet, but all of the Lord's people should be speaking for the Lord, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

19 The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh—
20 But that every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world; - D&C 1

That is the goal and desire of the Lord. He doesn't want man to councel his fellow man, and he doesn't want us to trust in the arm of flesh either. He wants us all to speak in his name through the Holy Ghost. Here is what Moses Said,

Numbers 11:29
29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

So, in this post, I have detailed two more reasons and 8 more passages of scripture that explain why we do not "Follow the prophet" but rather follow the spirit... You can add these two points to the posts that you have refused to address/challenge/discuss which are stacked in opposition to your current views/teachings...

Here are the posts that as of yet have gone un-challenged, un-responded to:
1 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 18 unaddressed quotes from Prophets and apostles that directly contradict the idea of Following the Prophet and 13 reasons not to.
2 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 7 more reasons and 9 scriptures 1 quote and an entire talk by a member of the First Presidency on this exact subject
3 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 5 more reasons, 4 new quotes
4 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 1 reason
5 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 1 reason
6 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 4 more reasons and 4 more contradicting scriptures
7 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 8 more reasons and 9 more contradicting scriptures
8 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 2 more reasons and 1 more contradicting quote by President John Taylor
9 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 3 more reasons
10 - Unaddressed/Unchallenged Post with 5 more reasons

That is a total of approximately 51 different reasons, 24 quotes from Presidents and Apostles and 30 separate passages in scriptures that I provided which you three are ignoring or refusing to address. I only counted the information I provided that as far as I am aware remains unchallenged and unquestioned and didn't count the unique stances of the others on the forum who are saying the same things.

To say that our entire stance rests on one unfounded or unsubstantiated concept which you blew off as if it were negated because 3 men are almost perfect and significantly likely to make errors more than one, as if our presentation of the information was that weak and unbacked by scriptures, quotes and reason displays significant ignorance of what we are saying.

I encourage all of you to put your heads together and challenge these posts and show how the 24 direct quotes from prophets and apostles on the topic as well as the entire talk provided by a member of the First Presidency on this exact subject are all wrong and in error in their statements and beliefs which support our views and then, I encourage you to tackle the 51 reasons and 30 passages of scripture which teach principles directly related to the topic, most of which are from the Lord directly.

All of these references and reasons have been ignored entirely, and I am calling you on it.

Peace,
Amonhi

[Spaced_Out]

Some thing for you guys to ponder:

- God is not a respecter of persons. That would include you.

- If you come to Christ, you will have Charity, and you will be One with Christ and God.

- God's glory is the immortality and eternal life of His Children.

So if you are One with Christ and God, and you have Charity, then you support His Church, and His Leaders.

Repent.

Agree. There entire argument is that a human can sometimes be subject to weakness and make mistakes. If the first presidency of the LDS church send out a notification on what to do then it is three persons that are in agreement, the chance for some human weakness to creep in is zero..

Do you remember any of the doctrines taught about blacks that were accepted by the entire church from the top down as doctrine which are now disavowed by the church in the recent essay on the church doctrine and history regarding the blacks put out by the church? Our current church calls the past leaders and Prophets Prejudiced.
Peace,
Amonhi

:p :p :p :p
Give it a rest, People see though all this fake drummed up stuff.

Jesus Christ when on the earth did not preach to any who were not Jews or the house of Israel - does that make Jesus a racist?? The PH was only held by the tribe of Levi and the prophets.
What G_d does in His wisdom is his business and this is His Church and His Prophets, fundamental doctrine taught by the prophets and ordinances is in accordance to His will - or are you proposing that Jehovah has lost control of his church and the Fathers children are suffering on earth because false practices have entered the church, and Jesus is incapable of fixing the problem and he has called you to do it.

[Amonhi]

The fact remains that it's God who is the one who defines who are his. And as d&c 121 33-43 points out the majority of lds are not.

It is not a fact but your blasphemous interpretation, you take it upon yourself to judge the majority of the LDS - we will talk again at the day of judgement.

G_d has called his great and noble ones and set them as prophets to guide his church in the last days, to think otherwise is apostasy, going against His (Jesus) anointed, called and chosen Apostles.

Section 121 33-43 can be likened unto the parable of the sower who sowed seeds - some fell on stony ground and when the sun came up burnt them for they had no root and they left the church and fought against the apostles. To say it is the prophets who are no stony ground with no root -??? - judgement time.

Here is the scripture reference: Notice that is is talking about the priesthood holders, not those who leave the church, but those who are given authority in the priesthood...

36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
First off, He says that the priesthood is conferred upon us or given to us but that if we lose the spirit, then we lose the priesthood. Remember Richard R. Lyman who hid the fact that he was sleeping with another woman while married to his wife for 18 years as an apostle? He fits the description in this verse in that he "undertook to cover his sins". He did this for 18 years as an apostle. And Apostle Apostle Albert Carrington did it for only 8 years. He also fit this description for 8 years before he was discovered.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
Do you see the word "ere" in that verse? Ere is defined as "before". So, before he is aware, he is left to himself meaning the powers of heaven left him because they are tied to the spirit which doesn't hang around if you are doing those things. And without realizing he is left to himself, he begins kicking against the pricks and fighting against God. These two apostles may have been in that state for 8 or 18 years before they were made aware by being excommunicated... But back to the previous verse... it tells us that not only covering your sins will drive away the spirit, but unrighteous dominion will too. The Lord goes on to address this issue saying...
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
So, how many times have you seen the church give someone authority and immediately they start exercising unrighteous dominion and so they are excommunicated? I have never seen that happen. I have seen unrighteous dominion by leaders in authority, but they are rarely excommunicated. They usually serve for years doing so. The Lord tells us that "Almost all men begin to exercise unrighteous dominion IMMEDIATELY upon being given authority. If you were right, then almost all men would be excommunicated immediately upon being called and given positions of authority. That doesn't happen. What happens instead is that they aren't even aware that they are persecuting the saints and fighting against god from within their seat of authority.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
This statement here tells us without question or confusion that we should not attempt to influence others by the virtue of our priesthood or the authority we have received by virtue of our position in the priesthood. This is a new concept to you because, just like the Lord said, ALMOST ALL men in the church do exactly that. They expect to have power and influence by virtue of their priesthood. As long as they remain in that position, they maintain that power and influence without persuasion by virtue of the fact that they were called. But they do not realize that they are not chosen because of their error. But the fact is that we are still talking about ordained priesthood holders in positions of authority, not excommunicated members fighting against God from outside the church.
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile— - D&C 121

There is no tie to the parable of the sower of seeds here. These are members of the church who are given the priesthood and positions in the priesthood. The parable you mentioned is about people hearing the word of God as non-member/investigators and them giving place for the seed to take root before being baptized, not after receiving the priesthood by confirmation or being given positions of authority.

You are mistaken.

Peace,
Amonhi

[Spaced_Out]

Matthew 16:18
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Rock of revelation to the prophet is the rock on which the church is established - if you think you have no need of a church and every man walking in his own ways will bring you closer to G_d good luck with that.
All your questions have been answered - you just refuse to accept the plain truth of the gospel and seek to justify yourself.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:35
35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.

[Spaced_Out]

There is no tie to the parable of the sower of seeds here. These are members of the church who are given the priesthood and positions in the priesthood. The parable you mentioned is about people hearing the word of God as non-member/investigators and them giving place for the seed to take root before being baptized, not after receiving the priesthood by confirmation or being given positions of authority.

You are mistaken.

Peace,
Amonhi

They accept the word with gladness but when the temptations arise they fall away. Same as in Lehi's vision the ones that eat the fruit of the tree of life and then after the mocking from the large and spacious building fall away.

Most of the wards and branches of the church that I have been in there is about 30% activity - vast majority of baptized members don't stay active. If you think that section 121 refers to active church leadership that are held in good standing with the church and that they are the ones called but not chosen. That is a great misunderstanding.

[Amonhi]

Some thing for you guys to ponder:

- God is not a respecter of persons. That would include you.

- If you come to Christ, you will have Charity, and you will be One with Christ and God.

- God's glory is the immortality and eternal life of His Children.

So if you are One with Christ and God, and you have Charity, then you support His Church, and His Leaders.

Repent.

Agree. There entire argument is that a human can sometimes be subject to weakness and make mistakes. If the first presidency of the LDS church send out a notification on what to do then it is three persons that are in agreement, the chance for some human weakness to creep in is zero..

Do you remember any of the doctrines taught about blacks that were accepted by the entire church from the top down as doctrine which are now disavowed by the church in the recent essay on the church doctrine and history regarding the blacks put out by the church? Our current church calls the past leaders and Prophets Prejudiced.
Peace,
Amonhi

:p :p :p :p
Give it a rest, People see though all this fake drummed up stuff.

Jesus Christ when on the earth did not preach to any who were not Jews or the house of Israel - does that make Jesus a racist?? The PH was only held by the tribe of Levi and the prophets.
What G_d does in His wisdom is his business and this is His Church and His Prophets, fundamental doctrine taught by the prophets and ordinances is in accordance to His will - or are you proposing that Jehovah has lost control of his church and the Fathers children are suffering on earth because false practices have entered the church, and Jesus is incapable of fixing the problem and he has called you to do it.

Apparently you don't know... I'm not talking about racism. I'm talking about doctrines and prophecies supported and taught by the curch that were thrown out under the guise of racism. I am not saying the the early leaders of the church were racist, I am saying that the LDS church article called the early leaders of the church racist and negated the doctrine believed and taught by the church and its leaders as racist doctrines of men. I'll look up the recent article and some of the quotes and teaching by the early prophets and apostles that the article directly denounced as racist even though they were taught by Prophets and Apostles, not just the fact that giving the priesthood to the blacks was not permitted. I'm talking about Brigham Young and other prophets saying that the blacks were less valiant in the premortal life and prophecies by Presidents of the church speaking in the name of the lord saying that the blacks would not be given the priesthood until every white son of Adam had received it first, and the other such doctrines taught to the church from the pulpit of General Conference by Prophets and Apostles which the church in its recent article writes off as the results of raciest men even though they are talking about the teachings of Prophets/Presidents.

Peace,
Amonhi