LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 6:19 pm**

I got a pm about that...and I am researching that in another tab, lol

You made me think about them when you used the "cremation of care" phrase in a previous post

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 6:32 pm**

thinks church hq and president monson knew around 1985 at the latest mk-ultra pedophile/child abuse ring stuff entered into utah or even church hierarchy, then why has he/president monson used it in his talks since then?? probably some signs to the outer world of pedophile rings chosen class that the church hq acknowledges their agenda??

remembers churchs reproving corresponding message was by president monson.

""sushi_ recalls vaguely that was 1985,6, in lehi utah there was some child abusing news in a newspaper or some, and then there was a message corresponding to that news from church by president monson(then apostle or 2nd counselor, doesnt recall which, probably the latter), that was in churchnews(newspaper) or other. sushi_ then was a kind of english as a second language student in provo utah at that time....hopefully someone can access that article and show/tell....

"A Rumor of Devils: Allegations of Satanic Child Abuse and Mormonism, 1985-1994
The Feast of the Beast comes to Utah "A Political Nightmare": The Lehi Ritual Abuse Scare (1985-1988)
"
http://www.cesnur.org/2001/archive/mi_mormons.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
""
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=36821&p=600592&hilit=lehi#p600592" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 6:34 pm**

Despite whatever is said about President Monson, I believe he is a true Prophet of God. Perfect, no, but he has a wonderful testimony, and does his best as he knows. My favorite talk he ever gave is actually his first he ever gave as an Apostle...

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 6:48 pm**

being called and sustained such is one thing and magnifying ones calling is another....

"3 And my brother, Jacob, also has seen him as I have seen him...
"19 And we did magnify our office unto the Lord, taking upon us the responsibility, answering the sins of the people upon our own heads if we did not teach them the word of God with all diligence; wherefore, by laboring with our might their blood might not come upon our garments; otherwise their blood would come upon our garments, and we would not be found spotless at the last day.

:-B

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 6:51 pm**

Oh nosss sushi, not the Pace memo stuff...that thread went down the rabbit hole, along with a post I made on pg. 1 on this one

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 8:53 pm**

Rachael wrote:I got a pm about that...and I am researching that in another tab, lol

You made me think about them when you used the "cremation of care" phrase in a previous post

Not surprisingly, Wilford Woodruff story is news to me. Would love to hear about your findings

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 9:18 pm**

I'm pretty sure President Monson identified the choice as being between 'the right path or the wrong path'.

Besides...he called the cat, Chinese.

Maybe, he was warning Congress to stop using our natural resources and created wealth as collateral on horrific debt to the Communist Chinese!

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 9:31 pm**

If your friend invites you to a satanic, secret society where they channel demon spirits, can we all agree that is the wrong path?

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 9:38 pm**

I yeah we can agree in that. But I'm not seeing an invite for that from TSM using Alice in wonderland analogies in GC

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 9:39 pm**

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:Why Alice in Wonderland?

So I'm curious to know why you think this story is repeated in conference???

Posted: **April 6th, 2016, 9:48 pm**

butterfly wrote:
Rachael wrote:I got a pm about that...and I am researching that in another tab, lol

You made me think about them when you used the "cremation of care" phrase in a previous post
Not surprisingly, Wilford Woodruff story is news to me. Would love to hear about your findings

This is gonna take a bit to sort through. I have mixed feelings about W. Woodruff. He is interesting. He reigned when the feds were really cracking down on polygamy and the church was about to lose all material assets. He gave us the Manifesto. And the prophet can never lead the church astray line. I'm trying to see if his rubbing elbows with the likes of the Bohemians was one of those examples of it being wise to make friends with Mammon or did they lure him out there to posion him to try to disentegrate the church's control over Utah and a major Western corridor or what

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 3:14 am**

Oh come on people, some of our apostles use terms like "A new dawn" and "dawning of a new day" but I doubt they know the deep occultic significance of those phrases.

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 7:15 am**

Explain

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:09 am**

Thank you all for your allowing discussion - even though there are some who assume my motives are wrong (which I no longer desire to address, unless I know such members to be sincere themselves through our interactions over the almost 2 years we've been here now). One can discern my motives by reading through our posts from the get go, and I no longer care what assumptions exists, as I've exhausted my sincerity explaining to the "loving" latter day saints why I exist and think and feel, much to the majority's disdain dislike and calling me apostate.

This type of discussion, despite the topic being controversial to some, over bearing to others, is hardly allowed within the confines of the Church. If a "prophet" of God quotes from a movie, author, or otherwise, we have every right to ask, discuss, and seek - nowhere have I sought to tear down the man who quoted this, I am addressing the principles of a prophet of God not attacking the man, in light of this discussion.

If a prophet of God quotes a movie, it lends itself to those who "follow the prophet" (think about that phrase in light of this movie quote) to go and watch the movie, does it not? Regardless of whether or not he was trying to make one point from the movie, by quoting the movie, it would seem he unintentionally endorses the movie, just like with other quotes (which is all well and good I guess) and it is the right of every person on earth to hear the voice of Christ speak to their heart as they listen to claimed prophets, apostles, seers, and revelators, and whether or not that person heeds His voice is up to the individual, and for me, he spoke to my heart upon hearing this man, who claims to speak for God, quote again from this movie.

PLEASE DISCUSS THIS ^^^ What does Heaven tell you about this ^^^ - share this as you are supposed to, as life long missionaries of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The majority of active LDS members on this forum, believe and have participated in the thought that during GC, the prophet of God speaks the exact words Christ our Lord would speak if he were here. So if that is the case, then Christ himself would be quoting this movie, and the Spirit of God working in my heart tells me otherwise - which is why this discussion is happening, to invite, to ponder, to seek, and discuss such.

Pres. Monson had other good things he shared, the usual he shares each time he speaks. This is not about those positive things, but the simple fact of the belief that He speaks as if his words, are the words of Christ (that is the claim) and in so claiming, we have to believe that quoting a movie is something Christ would have us consider after all.

I hope to answer any sincere questions and points now in this thread in light of what I underlined above.

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:17 am**

Fiannan wrote:Look up most of the classic literature and its true origins. Even those made into Disney movies were very, very dark originally.

Sleeping Beauty is not awaken by a kiss but rather in childbirth.

Little Red Riding Hood was more akin to "Twilight" but it took the "Team Jakob" to a far greater degree.

Even rhymes like "London Bridge is Falling Down" as well as "Ring Around the Rosies" and "Humpty Dumpty" are very dark.

OK Fiannan, please expound. These false traditions, especially the morbid, gruesome, songs of our childhood we all memorize (compared to maybe the scriptures of the Lord being sung and memorized) - are carried down from generation to generation - why are we perpetuating them? Are we not in your view to put a stop to the false traditions of our fathers?

FYI. These morbid, perpetuated nursery rhimes and fairy tales are specifically required to be taught in first grade school curriculum in conservative, all is well in Zion Utah.

Do we believe the city of Enoch had these songs being taught to their children? The entertainment style of Alice in Wonderland being quoted in their General Conferences by Enoch the voice of God to the people - before they were taken up to heaven? or were they undoing all these false traditions, and had progressed to much holier sphere were they were plum undesired whatsoever due to the beauties they had compared to such false traditions?

Some of you are thinking I'm being nit picky, but I am trying to gain a witness that this is God's only authorized mouthpiece on earth, and in seeking this witness in sincerity - I am baffled (but not surprised now) that he quotes false tradition - so rather than tearing it down, he enshrines it in my opinion with the stamp of approval now to be shared for generations more.

Is there anything cute and uplifting about that movie overall? Does it even come close to belonging on the Elder Oaks Good, Better, Best scale?

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:30 am**

Rachael wrote:TSM probably didn't know about L. Carroll's past either when making his quotes. Hinckley didn't about Hoffman. But that's another rabbit hole....

In seeking a witness if President Thomas S Monson is God's voice on earth, does it matter to you what they quote from, or is this simply going to be yet another "speaking as Thomas, not as a prophet" claimed things that most active LDS state in such matters? (not accusing you in the least, but asking your thoughts on the matter ;) )

I mean come one. I have been called in by leaders in various wards for teaching a spiritual concept with a quote that wasn't in the manual (I get I'm just a lay member). Pres. Monson is a prophet of God, should he not be able to discern more than most lay members when he is quoting from some other man's work, esp. a work that is more than obviously dark and anti Christ?

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:32 am**

iWriteStuff wrote:Hey, at least he watched Conference ;)

I propose a rule: GAs can only quote scriptures from now on. Except when the characters in them kill people, behave unrighteously (ie: sin), practice incest, or are influenced by immorality. That'll keep us all on the straight and narrow for sure.

So in other words, you are comparing inspired scripture (what God wanted us to consider, incest, immorality and all) with Satan's counterfeit Alice and Wonderland?

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:38 am**

setyourselffree wrote:The guy doesn't believe the Prophets and Apostles are called of God. The only reason he watches is probably to try and catch doing something wrong from the pulpit I.E what he is doing right now. He doesn't belong on this board if he is going to do this.

Really? So where is your inspiration in this profound thought? Where are your Heavenly inspired questions? Huh?

Let me help you with a sincere reply (I invite you to lovingly consider and respond to my sincere, non assumptive (like yours) response here).

I belive so much in prophets and apostles, maybe more than most, that what I'm seeking in President Monson, to have this witness many of you claim, is missing all the parts of my ABSOLUTELY BELIEF in prophets, seers, revelators, and apostles called of God. This assumption of yours my friend is so opposite of "setting your self free" process it is ironic.

The reason I watch is my sincere seeking a witness of God, because of me ABSOLUTELY BELIEF in prophets, seers, and revelators. Capiche as of yet, or do I need to repeat it again?

As to your comment of my not belonging on this board? There are so many examples of your words in scripture against Christ and his true followers, its not even funny.

I declare my absolutely belief in prophets, seers, revelators, and apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ. I declare my witness Joseph Smith was one of them, and was absolutely innocent of what the LDS church has put out (notice I didn't say brethren have prophesied or declared verily thus saith the Lord - because I'm pretty confident at least Uchtdorf, Scott, Bednar, and others would have a witness right along with me) in paid-scholarly essays to the contrary.

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:40 am**

iWriteStuff wrote:
setyourselffree wrote:
Rachael wrote:Your name is set yourself free on a freedom forum. Go figure. So what if BroOfMahonri is an ex, did he put out misinformation? Was L.Carroll a pedophie or not? Did TSM derive the quotes from Alice in Wonderland or not? Can the symbology he discovered in Alice in Wonderland be disputed and debunked? This isn't the dark ages to burn books or ban people when they don't agree.
You are apparently a bitter member as well, go figure! It is not fact that Lewis Caroll was a pedophile nor is it fact that his book was Satanic. So to suggest it is trying to start something up about the Prophet.
On a side note, I wonder how many of us have read books by people who are secretly Satanists or pedophiles. Heck, how many of us have VOTED for such individuals? :ymsick:

... Man cannot be saved in ignorance... does this apply in your view to the books read that are secretly Satanic or by pedophiles?

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:41 am**

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:Why Alice in Wonderland?

Alice in Wonderland 101...

AUTHOR / PEDOPHILE for little Girls, including Alice (who was a real person) who he took nude photos of

Author of Alice in Wonderland:
Reverend Charles L. Dodgson
aka Lewis Carroll

1832 - 1898

Mathematician, Symbolist, Logician, Anglican Deacon, Prolific Photographer, and most important highly likely from all the evidence of his life, he was a pedophile for little girls... He also drew inspiration from Hashish and Amanita Muscaria Mushrooms.

Mr. Carroll had many 'child friends' and was an avid photographer, taking pictures of young girls, often nude.

Here we see the author kissing Alice Liddell in one of his photographs... before the photographs he took of her nude...

ALICE AND WONDERLAND

Lewis Carroll originally titled the story, "Alice's adventures underground".

Mind you, all of the following is found down through the rabbit hole into the abyss where Alice was invited to a "party", way far down into darkness in the movie:

- going down the rabbit hole, which goes really deep (bottomless pit) - where one can go to the party, which party Alice references (lots of symbolism I won't go into details)
- she goes into the shaft, into the pit and falls down, down, down into darkness
- mirror is inverted, the entire place is inverted (referenced to the abyss)
- white rabbit, room 101, the beast, numbers, colors used
- doors and door knobs, keys
- last supper mockery (tea party) and symbolism
- magic tunnels into other dimensions and worlds
- doors and veils
- owls
- spiral stairs
- clocks and time (3pm is mentioned in movie, time of Christ's death, but in an anti christ manner)
- numbers, colors, music (part of accessing the subconcious mind, esp. for children), time, dimensions, last hour, no time, being late
- Signs and Symbols (hand signs obvious refernce ot the goat - satan)
- infinite tunnels
- spiritual possession (disembodiment - demonic)
- drugs, mushrooms, etc.

Essentially, without going into more depth, this movie is all about opening the veil of the abyss of the anti christ, it mocks Christ, mocks the last supper, mocks his death, time of death, the veil, essentially this movie mocks all things symbolic of Christ with Satan's counterfeit.

What are your thoughts? Should the Prophet of God call it out on this movie if he is quoting from it, unless some saint, or heaven forbid children unwittingly think if the prophet quotes from it, then it must be one to have in a movie collection, should he know the truth about it? When he quotes from a blatantly satan-occult-inspired movie, should he at least warn us about it?

I see you haven't changed a bit since Ive been gone lol. Must be exhausting to be you.

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:45 am**

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:If a prophet of God quotes a movie, it lends itself to those who "follow the prophet" (think about that phrase in light of this movie quote) to go and watch the movie, does it not?

Some things become part of speech or common knowledge that transcends a single line in a movie or a quote from a book. If I say "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" you know I'm quoting the movie Gone With The Wind, and I assure you, I've never sat through that snore fest of a movie. I can make and/or understand all kinds of references to Romeo & Juliet, Henry V, Twelfth Night, Macbeth, and many other works of Shakespeare, but I've never read a single one of his plays or poems. I know them from other things I've read or learned somewhere along my path of learning because they're common knowledge.

I believe that's what President Monson was doing. He referenced something that is fairly common knowledge to express his point. That's all.

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:53 am**

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:
iWriteStuff wrote:Hey, at least he watched Conference ;)

I propose a rule: GAs can only quote scriptures from now on. Except when the characters in them kill people, behave unrighteously (ie: sin), practice incest, or are influenced by immorality. That'll keep us all on the straight and narrow for sure.
So in other words, you are comparing inspired scripture (what God wanted us to consider, incest, immorality and all) with Satan's counterfeit Alice and Wonderland?

No, you're the one making the comparison. And swallowing camels wholesale in the process (as opposed to that gnat you were craving).

Weren't you the pious individual previously bragging about being able to find inspiration in kids movies? And now kids movies are the devil and should never be mentioned in talks? It's a wonderful double standard, but wildly inconsistent to embrace one in your house and then denounce another because a Prophet of God mentioned it in a talk :ymsick:

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:55 am**

skmo wrote:
BrotherOfMahonri wrote:If a prophet of God quotes a movie, it lends itself to those who "follow the prophet" (think about that phrase in light of this movie quote) to go and watch the movie, does it not?
Some things become part of speech or common knowledge that transcends a single line in a movie or a quote from a book. If I say "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" you know I'm quoting the movie Gone With The Wind, and I assure you, I've never sat through that snore fest of a movie. I can make and/or understand all kinds of references to Romeo & Juliet, Henry V, Twelfth Night, Macbeth, and many other works of Shakespeare, but I've never read a single one of his plays or poems. I know them from other things I've read or learned somewhere along my path of learning because they're common knowledge.

I believe that's what President Monson was doing. He referenced something that is fairly common knowledge to express his point. That's all.

Fair enough, but I would never know that was from Gone with the Wind, why wouldn't I know that? Uneducated? Un-cultured? Not of the world?

However, are you not perpetuating traditions of the fathers then by quoting from movies you've never seen? Are you not completely proving a deeper point, that you are continuing the traditions of things you didn't know about? Is not that why we still require first graders in Utah, USA to learn the songs of morbid-historic nursery rhimes? Will you or I be the school board member to heed the voice of the Spirit, follow the prompting to set down the manual, and go lookup the info outside the church's manual to find the truth about those books, songs, etc. we are teaching our children from?

If I took this train of thought and started quoting lines that so many in my high school days quoted from, from the show, "Friends" and 60 years later, I'm dead, but my children or grandchildren look up those quotes, on lives the false traditions - to the third and fourth generations until God rasise up another human being sensative and willing enough to put an end to them - enough so we can focus on our own City of Enoch per se?

Do you see my point in this? When do we say enough is enough, and does Zion, the new jerusalem's inhabitants live in a sphere of holiness that to hear such quote from such unimportant works by man - simply shows the state of mind, even ignorance, of the person quoting them, as that person has yet to put off the traditions of the fathers (false ones) enough to seek for holier "entertainment"?

Why didn't Jesus Christ participate in such train of thought? Where do you find such "fairly common knowledge" or false traditions being quoted in Scriptures by prophets of God? Do not the scriptural prophets condemn the false traditions again and again?

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 9:59 am**

What did the Cheshire Cat say that was so offensive?

Posted: **April 7th, 2016, 10:01 am**

Separatist wrote:What did the Cheshire Cat say that was so offensive?

I think his main offense was that his creator, the author, liked little girls and Satan. 8-|

LDS Freedom Forum

Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

Re: Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie