The Doctrine of Gathering Out

[Kingdom of ZION]

I was posting my comments on another thread here about a Clarion Call. Would there ever be one sent out on the eve of a divine destruction. And as you look among this section of these Forums, it is interesting to note the number of threads on Tent Cities or if you would except a call to gather out. So it is an issue of belief or great concern that many here whom fully expect to be called out or to gather once the destructions have happened.

Is this a correct belief that is born out or the pattern of such that is found in the scriptures?

There are prophecies upon the subject, so there will be such events, but is it Adonai's will that that is how He will gather out His Elect? Or is there an initial gathering out that He wills and has ordained, and these other aftermath gatherings that come later are inspired by the survivors themselves or allowed to fulfill prophecies, but come not as a blessing, but part of the judgments?

When Yesrael was taken into Babylonian captivity, Jeremiah and those close to him were not among them who were made slaves. We find the same thing with Lot and his family, Lehi and his family, and many others. Is this the pattern? If you wait until the masses gather, you are already under condemnation and the blessing and Elect have already left!

Why do people need to be driven by the wipe to do what is best for them. It is not that He (Adonai), is not warning and revealing his will NOW for those who are listening. It is that most people are not listening and those who do hear the spirit, put a myriad of excuses as to why they cannot do it at this time. If Adonai says leave, what are you waiting for? The world, your church, your friends, or your family to agree with your revelation! They will NOT, because they are not listening like you are, and they may not have the same calling.

The doors to the Arc are getting ready to close. There is a point where this time will pass, and it will be to late. Failing to heed the spirit is a mark of a lessor spirit, born into a world that reflects their full measure of their creation.

Shalom

P.S. I long for even just a few families to awaken to our awful state of affairs we are in and to gather to prepare before the end. Aman

[waverider]

I was posting my comments on another thread here about a Clarion Call. Would there ever be one sent out on the eve of a divine destruction. And as you look among this section of these Forums, it is interesting to note the number of threads on Tent Cities or if you would except a call to gather out. So it is an issue of belief or great concern that many here whom fully expect to be called out or to gather once the destructions have happened.

Is this a correct belief that is born out or the pattern of such that is found in the scriptures?

There are prophecies upon the subject, so there will be such events, but is it Adonai's will that that is how He will gather out His Elect? Or is there an initial gathering out that He wills and has ordained, and these other aftermath gatherings that come later are inspired by the survivors themselves or allowed to fulfill prophecies, but come not as a blessing, but part of the judgments?

When Yesrael was taken into Babylonian captivity, Jeremiah and those close to him were not among them who were made slaves. We find the same thing with Lot and his family, Lehi and his family, and many others. Is this the pattern? If you wait until the masses gather, you are already under condemnation and the blessing and Elect have already left!

Why do people need to be driven by the wipe to do what is best for them. It is not that He (Adonai), is not warning and revealing his will NOW for those who are listening. It is that most people are not listening and those who do hear the spirit, put a myriad of excuses as to why they cannot do it at this time. If Adonai says leave, what are you waiting for? The world, your church, your friends, or your family to agree with your revelation! They will NOT, because they are not listening like you are, and they may not have the same calling.

The doors to the Arc are getting ready to close. There is a point where this time will pass, and it will be to late. Failing to heed the spirit is a mark of a lessor spirit, born into a world that reflects their full measure of their creation.

Shalom

P.S. I long for even just a few families to awaken to our awful state of affairs we are in and to gather to prepare before the end. Aman

So are you saying that we should gather ourselves if we feel directed? To not wait for an "announcement over the pulpit"?

[Kingdom of ZION]

YES!!! You may find yourself waiting for a call that never comes. When Hitler was making waves in the thirties, no call came for the Chosen People to gather out from their leaders. Some felt by the spirit that they needed too, and they did. Those who ignored the spirit, do so at great peril and even the loss of their own lives.

Lehi was not sitting there waiting for an official call to leave Jerusalem, from his leaders. Nor did Noah wait for permission for his leaders to tell him to start building a boat. IF you feel by the spirit to gather out, DO NOT let grass grow under your feet. Follow the spirit, rather than the arm of flesh ALWAYS!

[Lizzy60]

There will be no announcement over the pulpit.

The invitation will come directly from the Lord. If you haven't learned to "hear" Him, you will not be aware that anything unusual is happening. His sheep hear His voice, and will not listen to the voice of an imposter.

[butterfly]

There will be no announcement over the pulpit.

The invitation will come directly from the Lord. If you haven't learned to "hear" Him, you will not be aware that anything unusual is happening. His sheep hear His voice, and will not listen to the voice of an imposter.

You say this with such confidence. May I ask how you came to know this so clearly for yourself? Do you believe this applies to everyone? What I mean is, do you feel that there will never be a call out from the prophet and that anyone who is saved will have been led out on their own?

[Zathura]

YES!!! You may find yourself waiting for a call that never comes. When Hitler was making waves in the thirties, no call came for the Chosen People to gather out from their leaders. Some felt by the spirit that they needed too, and they did. Those who ignored the spirit, do so at great peril and even the loss of their own lives.

Lehi was not sitting there waiting for an official call to leave Jerusalem, from his leaders. Nor did Noah wait for permission for his leaders to tell him to start building a boat. IF you feel by the spirit to gather out, DO NOT let grass grow under your feet. Follow the spirit, rather than the arm of flesh ALWAYS!

Good points that will most certainly be repeated in our day

[Older/wiser?]

We lived along the wasatch front raised our children there..2001 we knew , were told to
Move...we where guided to the area we are in now..years ago I had 2 dreams .It wasn't
Until I heard someone describe this place in sacrament meeting, that I knew it
Was described to me in one of my dreams..I also know there will be mobs coming to this area
I learned a lot from that dream..the Lord will come..
Side note : I am surprised how many of my ward members have places here..different reasons people are "called out " way before they need to be out..

[Matchmaker]

There will be no announcement over the pulpit.

The invitation will come directly from the Lord. If you haven't learned to "hear" Him, you will not be aware that anything unusual is happening. His sheep hear His voice, and will not listen to the voice of an imposter.

Only a couple of times in the past when I was getting ready to fall off a cliff, so to speak, did the Lord have the Bishop warn me directly. Most of the time, I receive inspiration directly through the Spirit and then act.

[Matchmaker]

We lived along the wasatch front raised our children there..2001 we knew , were told to
Move...we where guided to the area we are in now..years ago I had 2 dreams .It wasn't
Until I heard someone describe this place in sacrament meeting, that I knew it
Was described to me in one of my dreams..I also know there will be mobs coming to this area
I learned a lot from that dream..the Lord will come..
Side note : I am surprised how many of my ward members have places here..different reasons people are "called out " way before they need to be out..

Are you going to leave us in suspense? Can you at least tell us what state you were called to. Thank you.

[Older/wiser?]

Know suspense , southeastern Idaho .. It is interesting how we have been guided,.along
With what I do I do for others..as I am told in my blessing "later in life I will take care of
The poor etc. oh this is not a church calling per say as we now are..and I am later in life
The signs are all around...thank you for asking as I hesitate to say to much..

[Kingdom of ZION]

You say this with such confidence. May I ask how you came to know this so clearly for yourself? Do you believe this applies to everyone? What I mean is, do you feel that there will never be a call out from the prophet and that anyone who is saved will have been led out on their own?

Butterfly, I hope you do not mind that I answer your question.

No, it does not apply to everyone. There are two statuses of beings here. If you are a Second Estate Being, and it you are destiny to lay your life down against the coming opposition... your path leads to martyrdom. If your a Fourth Estate Being, and your called to build Zion, your destine to be gathered out. Not that Second Estate Beings may not be gathered out or Fourth Estate Beings might not be called to Martyrdom. But whatever you are called to do, may you do it well.

Following the spirit looks like your doing what you want to do, except 'you know' that your doing the Fathers will not your own and it is not going to go the way you expect or want! It will stretch your mortal abilities beyond your believed limits. In those times, you will have no one except the Lord (Adonai) to lean on. In such times, your name will be written in the Lamb's book of life for good.

Why do some already have their names written in it?

[Older/wiser?]

Kingdom of Zion , just curious about your last question, is it because they have already been
Murdered though they yet live...just a thought as you seem to already know...and now that
I think about it that is probably way off, .

[butterfly]

You say this with such confidence. May I ask how you came to know this so clearly for yourself? Do you believe this applies to everyone? What I mean is, do you feel that there will never be a call out from the prophet and that anyone who is saved will have been led out on their own?

Butterfly, I hope you do not mind that I answer your question.

No, it does not apply to everyone. There are two statuses of beings here. If you are a Second Estate Being, and it you are destiny to lay your life down against the coming opposition... your path leads to martyrdom. If your a Fourth Estate Being, and your called to build Zion, your destine to be gathered out. Not that Second Estate Beings may not be gathered out or Fourth Estate Beings might not be called to Martyrdom. But whatever you are called to do, may you do it well.

Following the spirit looks like your doing what you want to do, except 'you know' that your doing the Fathers will not your own and it is not going to go the way you expect or want! It will stretch your mortal abilities beyond your believed limits. In those times, you will have no one except the Lord (Adonai) to lean on. In such times, your name will be written in the Lamb's book of life for good.

Why do some already have heir names written in it?

The idea of different estates reminds me of Buddhism and the 8 fold path. Do you believe people can progress through more than 1 estate in a single lifetime? Like they could learn and change enough to go from the 2nd to the 4th estate?

[Kingdom of ZION]

The idea of different estates reminds me of Buddhism and the 8 fold path. Do you believe people can progress through more than 1 estate in a single lifetime? Like they could learn and change enough to go from the 2nd to the 4th estate?

No it is not possible. The per-existence was the First Estate. Without coming down here and being born, you could not arrive to the Second Estate. No amount of works, knowledge, or faith can advance you to here except your being allowed to come here and you were physically born. The path is real, the path is life, and for some it extends more than life eternal.

[harakim]

We lived along the wasatch front raised our children there..2001 we knew , were told to
Move...we where guided to the area we are in now..years ago I had 2 dreams .It wasn't
Until I heard someone describe this place in sacrament meeting, that I knew it
Was described to me in one of my dreams..I also know there will be mobs coming to this area
I learned a lot from that dream..the Lord will come..
Side note : I am surprised how many of my ward members have places here..different reasons people are "called out " way before they need to be out..

I found this post interesting. The same thing happened in the place I have moved! Everyone who has moved here says they felt like they were supposed to move here.

[Matchmaker]

I think sometimes we are called by the Lord to go to a particular place for reasons other than safety. One of my old Bishops in AZ said that he and his wife felt impressed to move all the way from Florida to AZ. As soon as they arrived, he was called to be the Bishop.

[Kingdom of ZION]

We lived along the wasatch front raised our children there..2001 we knew , were told to
Move...we where guided to the area we are in now..years ago I had 2 dreams .It wasn't
Until I heard someone describe this place in sacrament meeting, that I knew it
Was described to me in one of my dreams..I also know there will be mobs coming to this area
I learned a lot from that dream..the Lord will come..
Side note : I am surprised how many of my ward members have places here..different reasons people are "called out " way before they need to be out..

Case in point... is it not prophesied that SLC will become one of the most wicked city upon the face of the earth, that blood will run in the gutters of the streets. Yet later it will become a tent city for people who come AFTER the destructions start!

So is this how you choose to live your final days in the end times? This is what you want for your family to experience and go through? Living first among the mops and gangs that will come, then in the tent cities with bad sanitation, lack of good shelter and food in a refugee camp, under the auspices of Bishops of the Church, who are the areas FEMA coordinators and directors, with little or no medical help or medicines.

Oh gee, sign me up for that one. Is that the plan Father has for His Elect? Or do you think He has another plan... just most are not spending the time required upon their knees to find out? I would be finding out. Everyone prays about should I put away stores and supplies... why not ask Him where He wants you to do this?

Was Lot blessed for choosing to live among the idolatress peoples of Sodom? Was that where the Lord told him to live? Are you willing to bet your life and the lives of all your love ones that the Lord will personally gather you out on the eve of destruction as He did for Lot? Did it still not cost him great personal loss, losing his wife because he failed to lead his family better in the ways of righteousness, by having gathered himself and his family out by the spirit.

Yes maybe the Lord did send him there to teach us by example, I cannot discount that... but even if He did, us not learning the lesson still remains a sin upon our heads to choose to dwell among the wick and the unrighteous, without being directly commanded too. If we do it for a job = money, or family or tradition = lack of revelation, we are on our own, for the Lord has no part in our doing.

ARE WE NOT COMMANDED TO GATHER OUT FROM AMONG THE WICKED? To come out of Babylon. TO EVENTUALLY GATHER AND BUILD ZION? To live by the spirit so we will know how and when.

Sobering thoughts to those whom love the Lord and His ways, not our own ways...

One might ask, is this a call to repentance? Yes, if you are not personally following the Lord, the great Adonai!

Shalom

[Kingdom of ZION]

I think sometimes we are called by the Lord to go to a particular place for reasons other than safety. One of my old Bishops in AZ said that he and his wife felt impressed to move all the way from Florida to AZ. As soon as they arrived, he was called to be the Bishop.

When gathered out, we cannot count the first blessing as the reason or purpose the Lord gathered us. Thousands of saint were gathered from Europe to these cities here in the mountains of the Rockies. And though many suffered greatly in the trek, it was their posterity and their posterity's posterity that really received the greatest blessings. You by the very nature of being born into the place where knowledge of the restored gospel has blessed you innumerially and continues to bless you and your children, is the blessing. You and your family are a product of being blessed like Lots descendants were blessed, because your ancestors once gathered out.

My Brothers and Sisters, if you can feel the truth of my words and the power of my testimony... then find your knees and make sure you are where Adonai would have you dwell. His ways ALWAYS leads us to life eternal!

Shalom

[Kingdom of ZION]

Not that I will be able to attend, as I will be working out of town. However, those who wish to study the historical attempts to build Zion, the blessing that came to others who through their obedience in those attempts were blessed, and how you might be blessed in the future, to attempt such... May want to attend.

As a side note: I have lived in two United Orders, stayed in a few others for a visit to see how they are attempting to unit. I have experienced first hand the struggles of community and living together. I have sought after Zion my whole life.

I currently am trying to get an EcoVillage started here on the western slopes of the Rockies in Colorado. Whether I succeed or not is not the test. My quality of life would be enough of a reward in and of itself, but I was command to move here first. I was shown where (the area), was then command to go and look and had the exact place revealed to me. I was then later commanded on the very day to go and purchase the exact piece of property I now dwell on. 8 years later, as of tomorrow, the day we closed on the property, Feb 14, Valentines day, we are still here and are very bless. We have milk and beef cows, with a few goats for entertainment. We have chickens, turkeys, geese, and a few peacocks for feathers. We have 2500 square feet of green houses and plenty of water, ponds and springs. I cannot begin to count all my blessings in connection to being willing to gather out, praise Adonai.


The United Order: History, Culture, and Future Prospects


Friday, February 19, 2016
1PM to 5:30PM
SWKT 280 Brigham Young University



United Order of Orderville


Organizer: Charles W. Nuckolls, Ph.D., Professor & Chair, Department of Anthropology, Brigham Young University



12:45 Introduction
Charles W. Nuckolls, Ph.D.

1:00 Paper One:
Steven L. Olsen, Ph.D. (Master Curator, LDS Church History Department)

Title: “The Design of Zion: Spatial and Organizational Structures”

Abstract: Establishing Zion was, for Joseph Smith, “the most important temporal object in view” for his followers. The significance of this utopian vision for the Latter-day Saints can be perhaps best appreciated from a structural study of its intended territorial and social orders. This presentation traces the design of the Mormon Zion from its origins in the 1830 to the present day, with particular attention given to the symbolism of its periodic structural transformations.


2:00 Paper Two:
Mathew Grow, Ph.D. (Director of Publications at the Church History Department of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and a general editor of the Joseph Smith Papers.)

Title: “Mormon Communalism in the Trans-Atlantic World.”

Abstract: The paper explores how Mormon communalism related to other groups in Europe and the U.S., focusing on particular interactions between them.


3:00-3:30 Break


3:30 Paper Three:
Ardis E. Parshall (Independent historian and researching specializing in Mormon and Utah topics.

Title: “’The Sisters Were Fully Up with the Men:’ Women and Children in the United Order of Kingston”

Abstract: This paper complicates our traditional awareness of women’s and children’s participation in a United Order community: How do you organize an LDS Relief Society when the goods and services provided by most Relief Societies are claimed by the men who lead the Order? How does an Order function when it becomes the “dumping ground” for an extended family’s widows and orphans? What economic role did children play in the Order? What role did women and children play in the collapsing Order’s transition to the economy of its surrounding culture?



4:30 Paper Four:
Warner Woodworth, Ph.D. (Global Social Entrepreneur/Professor Emeritus
Organizational Leadership & Strategy, Marriott School, BYU)

Title: “Practicing the United Order Today”

Abstract: This paper will briefly highlight contemporary models that reflect various
aspects of the visions of Enoch, 4 Nephi, Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young as they labored to build a better society. While the full plan may not be established in our time, many seek to approximate its dimensions of economic and social justice.


5:30 Discussion and Questions from the Audience


May one day we will all stand together in ZION. Shalom

[EmmaLee]

As a side note: I have lived in two United Orders, stayed in a few others for a visit to see how they are attempting to unit.

I currently am trying to get an EcoVillage started here on the western slopes of the Rockies in Colorado.

I thought you were in NW Missouri? Or maybe that was previously or just one you visited?

[Kingdom of ZION]

As a side note: I have lived in two United Orders, stayed in a few others for a visit to see how they are attempting to unit.

I currently am trying to get an EcoVillage started here on the western slopes of the Rockies in Colorado.

EmmaLee said: I thought you were in NW Missouri? Or maybe that was previously or just one you visited?

I lived for a time in 1992 in an United Order in Independence, MO. I lived in Sanpete Co. (Manti), Utah for 15 years, 1st in a old dead homestead off the grid on solar power (6 yrs.) and then on a old 5 ac. dead milk dairy in the old farm house (7 yrs.). Moved to Colorado in 2008 to a 70 ac ranch that we are converting into a farm.

We live on a road called 3500 Road, which means that we are 35 miles as the crow flies from Utah. We are a little south of Moab, Utah, located on the east side of the La Sal Mountains. But actually were are much closer to the San Juan Mountains east of us. Lone Mountain I mean Lone Cone is the mountain closes to us (about 12 mi. away).

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The northeast of the cone was blown away when it sealed itself, and became an extincted volcano, back when the Rockies were made.

I have ran into 7-8 thousand head of elk on multiple occasions in our valley. We have the largest herds of elk in the continental US. The only reason outsiders come into our valley is to trophy elk hunt. I run into 6 to 10 four point bucks of deer by the road side quite often. No one eats venison around here, they are starting to loose the fear of man because we all ignore them.

If I ever run out of food storage, the Lord will provide.

Shalom

[EmmaLee]

Okay, thanks for the reply.

[h_p]

There will be no announcement over the pulpit.

The invitation will come directly from the Lord. If you haven't learned to "hear" Him, you will not be aware that anything unusual is happening. His sheep hear His voice, and will not listen to the voice of an imposter.

You say this with such confidence. May I ask how you came to know this so clearly for yourself? Do you believe this applies to everyone? What I mean is, do you feel that there will never be a call out from the prophet and that anyone who is saved will have been led out on their own?

What better way to separate the sheep from the goats?

[Kingdom of ZION]

What I believe h_p is that the Gathering Out initially will be LDS who have awakened to our awful situation (book pun intended), and are being spirit lead, or Mormons who believe in the restoration but know that the Times of the Gentiles has come in, and the complete apostasy now exists which has broken the covenant.
Those who do not have this relationship with the Lord, or are waiting for other men to tell them what to do will not get the call or message.

If we had a Lord's Anointed and he was getting real revelation, that would be one thing. But to trust a large corporation ran by the arm of flesh, with the temporal salvation of myself and family, and to hope corporate executives had my best interest at heart, I was not born yesterday! And then when looking at the past examples of Gathering Out in the scriptures, it usually is not initiated by the ruling party, church, or institution, I am not willing to gamble with my families security on such, and neither will the spirit allow me too!

Shalom

[will]

Moses 3:7. I will follow the prophet. Kiss ( keep it simple stupid)