LDS Freedom Forum

I'm a little reticent about starting this but am interested in what's happening in other parts of the world. This is really for information. Recently a GA (Elder Tillerman) came down and had a training meeting with a portion of our metropolitan area. The subject: reduce ward size to about 400 (depending on priesthood leadership available and activity) and stakes to have a maximum of 8 wards.

This occasions a change in the number of wards in buildings. This would be 4 overlapping wards, 5 wards in a growth situation and a 2.5 hour block. So the stake presidencies (6 total) got their heads together and did a plan to reduce the size of the existing wards. They end result was the creation of 4 to 5 new stakes.

The Brethren have already started the process in certain areas of the country. If a ward is created, and their is no space available, then they must travel to the next closest building with space available within a 30 or 45 minute drive. (The Wasatch Front, of course, is different with only a 15 minutes travel requirement!). So in our neck of the planet, it is conceivable that a new ward created in the suburbs might have to travel to downtown to housing.

So, now we have 3 apostles coming to our metro area, in the next couple of weeks, for priesthood training and a youth meeting, YSA meeting, some stake splits/changes, etc. It is assumed that the youth talks by Bednar and Holland will be of a similar nature as Elder Nelson's. Big changes are underway in the building areas. Has it come to your area?

My assumption is that its an effort to have a manageable size ward (so members don't get lost or hide). The future size of the Church keeps getting thrown around: 150,000,000 to 300,000,000 with the opening of China, I assume.

Our Stake President told us the same thing is happening in the Dallas-Ft. Worth region. Smaller wards, fewer units per stake, (therefore we should expect an additional stake or two in the near future) more units per building, and no new buildings planned unless there are a lot of new members. I heard this with my own ears.

Have heard the same thing now two different places in WA state where we've lived. Someone was told in our Stake that the Church is not building any more meetinghouses in the U.S. if it can help it. Need to squeeze into existing buildings and/or travel to different ones. We had to travel 20 min to our building despite having one 5 min. away. Now we are in situation where we are trying to fit three wards in a small building, and again, we might have to end up traveling to a building further away. The money it appears needs to go to foreign countries.

It all makes sense in some parts of the world.
Here in my ward we average about 85 on a sunday, and there are currently 7 units in the stake. Some stakes have only 5 units.

Zowieink wrote:I'm a little reticent about starting this but am interested in what's happening in other parts of the world. This is really for information. Recently a GA (Elder Tillerman) came down and had a training meeting with a portion of our metropolitan area. The subject: reduce ward size to about 400 (depending on priesthood leadership available and activity) and stakes to have a maximum of 8 wards.

This occasions a change in the number of wards in buildings. This would be 4 overlapping wards, 5 wards in a growth situation and a 2.5 hour block. So the stake presidencies (6 total) got their heads together and did a plan to reduce the size of the existing wards. They end result was the creation of 4 to 5 new stakes.

The Brethren have already started the process in certain areas of the country. If a ward is created, and their is no space available, then they must travel to the next closest building with space available within a 30 or 45 minute drive. (The Wasatch Front, of course, is different with only a 15 minutes travel requirement!). So in our neck of the planet, it is conceivable that a new ward created in the suburbs might have to travel to downtown to housing.

So, now we have 3 apostles coming to our metro area, in the next couple of weeks, for priesthood training and a youth meeting, YSA meeting, some stake splits/changes, etc. It is assumed that the youth talks by Bednar and Holland will be of a similar nature as Elder Nelson's. Big changes are underway in the building areas. Has it come to your area?

My assumption is that its an effort to have a manageable size ward (so members don't get lost or hide). The future size of the Church keeps getting thrown around: 150,000,000 to 300,000,000 with the opening of China, I assume.

The church thinks China alone will give them 100-300 million members more?

Sirocco wrote:

Zowieink wrote:My assumption is that its an effort to have a manageable size ward (so members don't get lost or hide). The future size of the Church keeps getting thrown around: 150,000,000 to 300,000,000 with the opening of China, I assume.

The church thinks China alone will give them 100-300 million members more?

25million is optimistic in then next 20 years. Dunno where a 100-300 million number comes from. It would radically change the entire dynamic of the entire church. We'd need a 1000 more temples, 10's of thousands of new buildings. A missionary force 100x the current size.

Those numbers sound like how I envision the return of the Lost Tribes. Are we pretty much at the end of the times of the Gentiles?

Our stake is being split at the end of this month. Have not heard of splitting wards and creating more, other than rumors, but I'm sure we will find out soon enough. We currently have 5 wards meeting in our building. We have a new Chapel that will be ready in April, and I understand another one in an adjoining stake is going to break ground soon. Our ward only has 100 families, but we are opening the overflow every Sunday for Sacrament, people are having kids like crazy. We have an 85% activity rate. Many people with no calling, and many Sunday school classes with 4 teachers.

My ward was reorganized a while back and ended up the same size. I'm not really sure why they did it. But we had 8 wards in our stake and ended up with 8 wards. It split up people who had been in the same ward for about 20 years. Now, in a new ward, our ward building went from 2 to 3 and soon to 4 and maybe 5 wards with a 5 o'clock start for someone. No changes to the stake and those wards are not in our stake.

Sunain wrote:

Sirocco wrote:

Zowieink wrote:My assumption is that its an effort to have a manageable size ward (so members don't get lost or hide). The future size of the Church keeps getting thrown around: 150,000,000 to 300,000,000 with the opening of China, I assume.

The church thinks China alone will give them 100-300 million members more?

25million is optimistic in then next 20 years. Dunno where a 100-300 million number comes from. It would radically change the entire dynamic of the entire church. We'd need a 1000 more temples, 10's of thousands of new buildings. A missionary force 100x the current size.

Could go up that way or stagnate, my generation is a pretty fickle one.
How many of those 25 million would be active?

idahommie wrote:Our stake is being split at the end of this month. Have not heard of splitting wards and creating more, other than rumors, but I'm sure we will find out soon enough. We currently have 5 wards meeting in our building. We have a new Chapel that will be ready in April, and I understand another one in an adjoining stake is going to break ground soon. Our ward only has 100 families, but we are opening the overflow every Sunday for Sacrament, people are having kids like crazy. We have an 85% activity rate. Many people with no calling, and many Sunday school classes with 4 teachers.

The one back home had at best 5 families

Zowieink wrote: opening of China

China has had missionaries 2x already. Late 1800's and 1930's.

Smaller wards are a great idea. If they don't fit in the buildings, cut them down to a few families each and they can meet in members' homes. Another idea is to eliminate the extra meetings on Sunday and just do sacrament meeting. Change the rest of the meetings back to mid-week. Combine them with the mid-week activities. Relief Society and primary could be during the day rather than in the evening in areas where the majority of women don't work.

Having been in small wards and large ones, the smaller ones are much nicer. You get to know people and really feel like a family.

China and Christianity has an uncomfortable history. Jesuit Matteo Ricci was one of the first to bring Catholicism to China in the early 1600s. He was highly educated and gained favor with the emperor and many converted to the new religion. Ricci believed there no conflict with Confucianism. After his death there was a controversy in the church regarding Confucianist rites honoring ancestors and this created a split with the emperor and the church. The new Jesuits were expelled from China.

Come along to the 1850's there is this alleged Christian that claims he is the son of God, the brother of Jesus Christ. He gains a powerful following and British agents decide to support him with arms. Thus began the Taiping Rebellion which brought the deaths of over 30 million people in the name of Christianity.

American history text books suddenly have this rush of Chinese to California at this time, yet not a word as to why so many were fleeing China. Who benefits from not sharing this knowledge with our growing children?

The Brits used religion as a means to divide and conquer and this also occurred in India. Thus it is understood the reluctance of both India and China to allow Christian proselyting.

Lord Palmerston (Queen Victoria's consort) was the chief instigator of the American Civil War, The Crimean War and the Taiping Rebellion. It could be said that he was the one that unleashed warfare upon the entire earth.

As a side note, Lehi, Confucius and Buddha lives overlapped. All 3 were reformers of old corrupted religions.

Wasn't there a thread on this a recent while back?

i have not seen anything in the Phoenix area split yet.

*Edit - It seems that there have been more stake splitting in Phienix and is happening little by little.

Get ready to do 3-4 callings now.

Sarah wrote:We had to travel 20 min to our building despite having one 5 min. away.

I have to travel a few blocks away to go to Church yet there's one almost across the street from me. True story.

BrianM wrote:

Sarah wrote:We had to travel 20 min to our building despite having one 5 min. away.

I have to travel a few blocks away to go to Church yet there's one almost across the street from me. True story.

Before we sold our house there was a church literally in my back yard but we had to go to the one that was almost across the street from it. Tough life in Utah.

If any of you guys/gals feel left out or under-utilized come on out to North Arkansas. Land is cheap and we all wear multiple hats ... our branch is over 1-1/2 hour drive time from corner to corner. We average 60 active, but 3-4 good active families could make us a ward. plus, i could use a good councilor.

cynikal wrote:If any of you guys/gals feel left out or under-utilized come on out to North Arkansas. Land is cheap and we all wear multiple hats ... our branch is over 1-1/2 hour drive time from corner to corner. We average 60 active, but 3-4 good active families could make us a ward. plus, i could use a good councilor.

That's why I love living where I do. The chances of having a "big" calling are slim B-)

h_p wrote: ↑January 12th, 2016, 6:55 pm Those numbers sound like how I envision the return of the Lost Tribes. Are we pretty much at the end of the times of the Gentiles?

Basically, yes.

BrianM wrote: ↑January 27th, 2016, 11:28 pm

Sarah wrote:We had to travel 20 min to our building despite having one 5 min. away.

I have to travel a few blocks away to go to Church yet there's one almost across the street from me. True story.

I was baffled as a teen when I found out the people across the street from my church building were in a different stake....

Meili wrote: ↑May 19th, 2017, 2:26 pm

BrianM wrote: ↑January 27th, 2016, 11:28 pm

Sarah wrote:We had to travel 20 min to our building despite having one 5 min. away.

I have to travel a few blocks away to go to Church yet there's one almost across the street from me. True story.

I was baffled as a teen when I found out the people across the street from my church building were in a different stake....

I still don't understand why the church building in my ward wasn't where my ward was assigned to go.

Seems the opposite may be happening in Europe:

https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.p ... flections/