No where in scripture does is say to celebrate Christmas.

[Ezra]

Quote Ezra:
"People can worship Christ or money, cars ,houses ,Santa ,war,TV, sports teams, and so on. "

Ezra, I do not agree that is the truth. The truth is most or all of us worship God the Father and Jesus Christ, and we enjoy or use as tools the money, the car, the house, the tv and so on. And enjoy Santa as entertainment.
And I don't think we worship war. I don't think any of us do that.
dc

You misread my post,

I'm saying we can. Not do. It's something to be cautious about where we place our desires. And what the thought and intent is behind those desires.
And according to president hinkley a great many of us do worship war and the machines of war.

As I said we can worship God and still have a house and car and money. It's where we place are desire that makes the difference between worshiping the cars house and money vs having an eye single to the glory of God.

I'm sure people can celebrate Christ and Christmas with traditions of Santa.
I just can't wrap my head around not having confusion or distraction that go along with it. As the way the world teaches Santa as a lie. Combating it and trying to have the focus be on Christ and what he did as well as being Christ like with giving not reciving. Seems a near impossible tast in my mind and exsperiance of growing up with parents who lied to me about Santa like the world.

[skmo]

...Worshipping is putting thought and energy into something.... It's all about what you place the importants on. The desires on.

Your first sentence there is an exceedingly convoluted belief. The second is less so, it's closer to a part of worship. Just because you put thought and energy into something doesn't mean you worship it. Worship is about the things you honor, revere, and have faith in. Even the idea that one can worship money is inaccurate. Greedy people don't worship money, they replace worship with their greed and love for money. That's not the same thing as worship.

If you desire to celebrate another what does that say?

That I'm gaining experience in this life of the many different things the world has to offer. If you spend your whole life closing out everything except Christ, you're denying the experiences this life gives us. Not all of them are good, and certainly Christ should be the main focus of our lives, but that doesn't mean we should close ourselves off from the many beautiful experiences life can give us. For me, the Christmas season has always been about joy.

I'm not saying that only for the celebration of Christmas.
It's a question I ask myself constantly to help me not to have a desire for the things of the world.

Nothing wrong with desires, as long as they're positive things and that the desires are kept in moderation. I desired an education. That's been a good thing. I desired a profession that would pay me enough to be able to meet my needs and allow me to be generous with my time and leisure. Being a teacher isn't a way to get filthy rich, but working in Alaska certainly helped. When my wife and I got the opportunity to go to Ireland, we had the financial stability to do so.

[Ezra]

Wikipedia

[Worship] The word is derived from the Old English weorþscipe, meaning worship, honour shown to an object,[1] (to a object)

In modern society and sociology, some writers have commented on the ways that people no longer simply worship recognised deities, but also/instead worship consumer brands,[11] sports teams, and other people (celebrities).[12] Sociology therefore extends this argument to suggest that religion and worship is a process whereby society worships itself, as a form of self-valorization and self-preservation.[13]


Any desire that is not based in Christ or in other words twisted by the thinking of man is a sinful desire.

You can have a desire for education that is selfish based and there for wrong. Or your desire can be righteous and good. That desire of righteously based is part of your worship of God or the world. And having a eye single to the glory of God.

There is no middle ground. You are either gods or you are not.
Most people give little thought towards God and his ways. There days are full of thoughts and desires for the "world" everything but God.

Like my original post. The tally of time spent in thought or service to God is very small comparied to thought and time of the world.

If we are judged by our works many will be very sad come judgement day to find out that they spent more time watching reruns then in thought or worship to God.

And yes you can worship money and riches.

[skmo]

Any desire that is not based in Christ or in other words twisted by the thinking of man is a sinful desire.

When we went to Ireland, it was purely happenstance. My vacation club overbooked, and my wife and I got roundtrip airfare, hotels and bed & breakfasts for a week, and a rental car for a week, all for $360 per person. Even with airline charges and taxes, the check I wrote for the two of us was under $1,000. I had never had plans or a desire to go, but the deal was so enticing we decided to go. While we were there, we touristed around, but the only churches we visited were Catholic churches, and that was mainly to admire the art and architecture.

Was that a sinful desire? We didn't do any proselyting, but we began and ended each day with prayer, as usual. I can't see it as being sinful. We enjoyed our trip, saw stunningly beautiful parts of the earth we'd never dreamt of, ate magnificent food, and we had a wonderful time.

There is no middle ground. You are either gods or you are not.

This is true, but one does not need to cloister themselves away from everything with a Book of Mormon and a candle to read it by. And there IS plenty of middle ground for daily activities: Going to work or school, having recreational activities, taking time to eat, alone time with a spouse or loved one. As long as a person has time each day for prayer and scripture study, all day Sunday for worship and service, and adequate time to fully fulfill your callings and duties, there is room in this life for recreation and enjoyment. If your point is that too many people eliminate worship time for more play time, then yes, those people need to re-examine their priorities. One of our purposes in this life is to have joy. Enjoying the beauty and (wholesome) experiences of this world can and should be a source of joy.

Most people give little thought towards God and his ways. There days are full of thoughts and desires for the "world" everything but God.

Most people overall in this country? Yea, I'll go along with that. There are even some members of the church who do this. Most of the people I interact with in my current ward seem to be good saints who place their relationship with God at the head of their priority list. However, they still have time to come to my house to help me winterize since I'm not physically able to, watch and enjoy BYU games, and even let me BBQ for them (I do a mean bone-in ribeye.)

And yes you can worship money and riches.

Not really, not in the sense of "Thou shall have no other gods before Me" sense of worship. It's a cute turn of phrase, but it's not really accurate.

[Ezra]

How so?

A person can be a millionare and not worship money. And they could also be a millionare and only worship money.

One could be poor and do the same. If you desire riches over Christ. Your wicked. If you desire Christ over riches most likely your wont be rich as you will give it to the poor.

The scriptures say seek first the kingdom of heaven befor riches/money.
And then the scriptures go on to define riches as accually being wisdom or blessing / exaltation.

No money at all as man thinks. Men think money is riches God says him and his ways are.

I'm still confused how you think one cannot worship and object like money??? Please explain.

[skmo]

I'm still confused how you think one cannot worship and object like money??? Please explain.

It's kind of being used like a hyperbole. Worship is generally interpreted to include a religious or spiritual figure. To say a person worships money can certainly indicate that the focus of their lives are on the acquisition of money, and by "worship" you're saying a person is dedicating the great majority of their time and effort to money. However, when someone is talking about God's commandment to have no other gods before Him, I believe He's talking about people offering their spiritual and religious loyalty to another god or group of gods. People who are greedy are covetous, but to say they worship money is using the term "worship" to be a ludicrous over-the-top statement about how they love money more than God. I agree that some people do, but unless they're setting up money as a religious object, it's just a figure of speech, it's not worship in the way the term is generally accepted.

We both agree on the need to focus our lives on Christ, in gaining and living faithful lives following Him. As an English teacher, I often get hung up with misuse of words. It works fine to use a statement like that as a parable, but it's not worship. Worship implies a divine affection.

[kennyhs]

[Ezra]

I'm still confused how you think one cannot worship and object like money??? Please explain.

It's kind of being used like a hyperbole. Worship is generally interpreted to include a religious or spiritual figure. To say a person worships money can certainly indicate that the focus of their lives are on the acquisition of money, and by "worship" you're saying a person is dedicating the great majority of their time and effort to money. However, when someone is talking about God's commandment to have no other gods before Him, I believe He's talking about people offering their spiritual and religious loyalty to another god or group of gods. People who are greedy are covetous, but to say they worship money is using the term "worship" to be a ludicrous over-the-top statement about how they love money more than God. I agree that some people do, but unless they're setting up money as a religious object, it's just a figure of speech, it's not worship in the way the term is generally accepted.

We both agree on the need to focus our lives on Christ, in gaining and living faithful lives following Him. As an English teacher, I often get hung up with misuse of words. It works fine to use a statement like that as a parable, but it's not worship. Worship implies a divine affection.

That is part of the definition of worship but not the entire definition. Part is that you can worship a person or thing object.
Like hero worship or pride which is a form of self worship.

This is from Wikipedia.
In modern society and sociology, some writers have commented on the ways that people no longer simply worship recognised deities, but also/instead worship consumer brands,[11] sports teams, and other people (celebrities).

The word is derived from the Old English weorþscipe, meaning worship, honour shown to an object,[1] which has been etymologised as "worthiness or worth-ship"—to give, at its simplest, worth to something.[2]


This is from a talk given by spencer w kimbal

Entitled

The false gods we worship.

n spite of our delight in defining ourselves as modern, and our tendency to think we possess a sophistication that no people in the past ever had—in spite of these things, we are, on the whole, an idolatrous people—a condition most repugnant to the Lord.

We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we become antienemy instead of pro-kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan’s counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior’s teaching:

Gods of stone and steel planes missiles. Are all objects.
Money is an object.

More from the same talk.

Few men have ever knowingly and deliberately chosen to reject God and his blessings. Rather, we learn from the scriptures that because the exercise of faith has always appeared to be more difficult than relying on things more immediately at hand, carnal man has tended to transfer his trust in God to material things. Therefore, in all ages when men have fallen under the power of Satan and lost the faith, they have put in its place a hope in the “arm of flesh” and in “gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know” (Dan. 5:23)—that is, in idols. This I find to be a dominant theme in the Old Testament. Whatever thing a man sets his heart and his trust in most is his god; and if his god doesn’t also happen to be the true and living God of Israel, that man is laboring in idolatry.

What ever a man sets his heart and trust in is his God.

Money then can be a mans God.

Full talk can be found here.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/06/the- ... p?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dash jones]

I'm having a birthday coming up. I suppose I should find it annoying that everyone wants to eat cake and ice cream, play games and possibly be the winner of such a game, and only spend such a little time remembering that it's my birthday. I suppose they should let me win the games and focus only on me, because that might make them be able to focus on the reason for the birthday celebration in the first place...

But...it doesn't. I actually want them to celebrate and have a fun time. When they are happy, it makes me happier.

Yes, this is a parallel.

(In truth, I do have a birthday coming up. I had the unfortunate date of birth to be right near Christmas. People really do focus on a whole lot of other items besides me...in fact...I get Christmas gifts on my birthday that I am to save till Christmas because...you know...just too close to Christmas to get me two gifts...but in truth...I don't mind as long as it's a fun celebration if I even have a celebration).

[captainfearnot]

I love what has come to be known as Christmas. I enjoy all the pagan rituals and symbols whether they originate in Yuletide or Saturnalia or whatever. From Christmas trees to mistletoe to gingerbread men, I'm down with all of it. I especially like the British and Scandinavian traditions, they really bring out the contrast between the warmth and joy of humanity and the cold, dark winter solstice. It's all beautiful.

But it's true that nativity scenes don't really fit in with all of this. The Savior wasn't born during the winter solstice, of course—the early Catholic church just wedged it in there to piggy back on what was already one of the biggest festivals of the year. So I don't have any problem with Jesus taking a back seat during the holidays. I think it's great that some people want to eschew the paganism and commercialism and focus on the Savior during this time of the year. But I don't see it that way. I don't need the worship of my savior as a contrived reason for Yuletide any more than I need to shoehorn him into Valentine's day or the 4th of July.

Some holidays are truly holy days and I get that. I actually wish the LDS church did more with the liturgical calendar when it comes to Easter, concerning Passover and Good Friday and Ash Wednesday and Lent and all of that. But I'm perfectly fine with Christmas being pagan.

[kennyhs]

I'm having a birthday coming up. I suppose I should find it annoying that everyone wants to eat cake and ice cream, play games and possibly be the winner of such a game, and only spend such a little time remembering that it's my birthday. I suppose they should let me win the games and focus only on me, because that might make them be able to focus on the reason for the birthday celebration in the first place...

But...it doesn't. I actually want them to celebrate and have a fun time. When they are happy, it makes me happier.

Yes, this is a parallel.

(In truth, I do have a birthday coming up. I had the unfortunate date of birth to be right near Christmas. People really do focus on a whole lot of other items besides me...in fact...I get Christmas gifts on my birthday that I am to save till Christmas because...you know...just too close to Christmas to get me two gifts...but in truth...I don't mind as long as it's a fun celebration if I even have a celebration).

I'm sure glad you posted this, my sister's birthday is the 28th and I always forget it.
Happy December birthday Dash! :ymparty:

[Todd]

I'm having a birthday coming up. I suppose I should find it annoying that everyone wants to eat cake and ice cream, play games and possibly be the winner of such a game, and only spend such a little time remembering that it's my birthday. I suppose they should let me win the games and focus only on me, because that might make them be able to focus on the reason for the birthday celebration in the first place...

But...it doesn't. I actually want them to celebrate and have a fun time. When they are happy, it makes me happier.

Yes, this is a parallel.

Bravo Dash. Well said.

[Fiannan]

One side note for the topic of Heavenly Mother, I was recently speaking with a Mormon who did a PhD on ancient deities. The person felt that Inanna was probably inspired by a more ancient past that had more information regarding the creation. I have spoken to several LDS people who are really into history who concur.
.


This is a more modern depiction: https://shestirs.files.wordpress.com/20 ... .jpg?w=652" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ezra]

How's about getting back to the op.

I asked for traditions of those who are dedicating Christmas to Christ.

I not really interested in why you all choose not to.
I'm asking for some good ideas for those who choose to have Christ be the focus.

Like the suggestion by kitkat and bro of m said.

Marc I know you have dedicated yourself to being in not of the world I would love to hear what you and your fam to to celebrate Christ.

[Robin Hood]

I'm having a birthday coming up. I suppose I should find it annoying that everyone wants to eat cake and ice cream, play games and possibly be the winner of such a game, and only spend such a little time remembering that it's my birthday. I suppose they should let me win the games and focus only on me, because that might make them be able to focus on the reason for the birthday celebration in the first place...

But...it doesn't. I actually want them to celebrate and have a fun time. When they are happy, it makes me happier.

Yes, this is a parallel.

(In truth, I do have a birthday coming up. I had the unfortunate date of birth to be right near Christmas. People really do focus on a whole lot of other items besides me...in fact...I get Christmas gifts on my birthday that I am to save till Christmas because...you know...just too close to Christmas to get me two gifts...but in truth...I don't mind as long as it's a fun celebration if I even have a celebration).

I'm sure glad you posted this, my sister's birthday is the 28th and I always forget it.
Happy December birthday Dash! :ymparty:

Mine's the 27th.
My Dad's is the 24th.
His mother's was the 24th.
His cousin's is the 26th.

All of us managed to miss the day itself. #:-s

[kennyhs]

I'm having a birthday coming up. I suppose I should find it annoying that everyone wants to eat cake and ice cream, play games and possibly be the winner of such a game, and only spend such a little time remembering that it's my birthday. I suppose they should let me win the games and focus only on me, because that might make them be able to focus on the reason for the birthday celebration in the first place...

But...it doesn't. I actually want them to celebrate and have a fun time. When they are happy, it makes me happier.

Yes, this is a parallel.

(In truth, I do have a birthday coming up. I had the unfortunate date of birth to be right near Christmas. People really do focus on a whole lot of other items besides me...in fact...I get Christmas gifts on my birthday that I am to save till Christmas because...you know...just too close to Christmas to get me two gifts...but in truth...I don't mind as long as it's a fun celebration if I even have a celebration).

I'm sure glad you posted this, my sister's birthday is the 28th and I always forget it.
Happy December birthday Dash! :ymparty:

Mine's the 27th.
My Dad's is the 24th.
His mother's was the 24th.
His cousin's is the 26th.

All of us managed to miss the day itself. #:-s

Happy December 27th birthday Robin Hood, may all the men be merry. :ymparty:

[kennyhs]

One side note for the topic of Heavenly Mother, I was recently speaking with a Mormon who did a PhD on ancient deities. The person felt that Inanna was probably inspired by a more ancient past that had more information regarding the creation. I have spoken to several LDS people who are really into history who concur.
.


This is a more modern depiction: https://shestirs.files.wordpress.com/20 ... .jpg?w=652" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting, I enjoyed reading this.

[kennyhs]

How's about getting back to the op.

I asked for traditions of those who are dedicating Christmas to Christ.

I not really interested in why you all choose not to.
I'm asking for some good ideas for those who choose to have Christ be the focus.

Like the suggestion by kitkat and bro of m said.

Marc I know you have dedicated yourself to being in not of the world I would love to hear what you and your fam to to celebrate Christ.

In returning to the OP;

. In a Christmas message the First Presidency counseled us:

“… may the true Christmas spirit rest upon each of us this season. May we help reverse the trend toward the gross commercialization of Christmas by gathering our families about us and reading and reflecting on the beautiful story of His birth. May we demonstrate our love for others not only with thoughtful gifts and messages, but also with expressions of love and kindness. May we demonstrate our love for God by worshiping Him in spirit and truth and by obeying His commandments.” lds.org

" Thoughtful gifts and messages." There it is, exchanging gifts is part of the season! I love being right! O:-)

[Fiannan]

If people were smart they would shun the traditional date of the celebration of Saturnalia and instead celebrate Christmas on January 8 as the Eastern Orthodox do. In that way you still get to take part in a co-opted pagan holiday but also get lots of great buys on presents during the after-Christmas reductions.

[Ezra]

I love what has come to be known as Christmas. I enjoy all the pagan rituals and symbols whether they originate in Yuletide or Saturnalia or whatever. From Christmas trees to mistletoe to gingerbread men, I'm down with all of it. I especially like the British and Scandinavian traditions, they really bring out the contrast between the warmth and joy of humanity and the cold, dark winter solstice. It's all beautiful.

But it's true that nativity scenes don't really fit in with all of this. The Savior wasn't born during the winter solstice, of course—the early Catholic church just wedged it in there to piggy back on what was already one of the biggest festivals of the year. So I don't have any problem with Jesus taking a back seat during the holidays. I think it's great that some people want to eschew the paganism and commercialism and focus on the Savior during this time of the year. But I don't see it that way. I don't need the worship of my savior as a contrived reason for Yuletide any more than I need to shoehorn him into Valentine's day or the 4th of July.

Some holidays are truly holy days and I get that. I actually wish the LDS church did more with the liturgical calendar when it comes to Easter, concerning Passover and Good Friday and Ash Wednesday and Lent and all of that. But I'm perfectly fine with Christmas being pagan.

Jeremiah 10.

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

It is not in the custom to do good!!! Interesting.

[Ezra]

How's about getting back to the op.

I asked for traditions of those who are dedicating Christmas to Christ.

I not really interested in why you all choose not to.
I'm asking for some good ideas for those who choose to have Christ be the focus.

Like the suggestion by kitkat and bro of m said.

Marc I know you have dedicated yourself to being in not of the world I would love to hear what you and your fam to to celebrate Christ.

In returning to the OP;

. In a Christmas message the First Presidency counseled us:

“… may the true Christmas spirit rest upon each of us this season. May we help reverse the trend toward the gross commercialization of Christmas by gathering our families about us and reading and reflecting on the beautiful story of His birth. May we demonstrate our love for others not only with thoughtful gifts and messages, but also with expressions of love and kindness. May we demonstrate our love for God by worshiping Him in spirit and truth and by obeying His commandments.” lds.org

" Thoughtful gifts and messages." There it is, exchanging gifts is part of the season! I love being right! O:-)

No one said not too. I have not said not to.

The council 2 years ago by the prophet was to follow the patterns in the scriptures. Give gifts to Jesus as the wise men did. For us we should give the gift of a humble heart and contrite spirit. And then. (Then) give the gifts to others that Jesus himself would give.

[samizdat]

If people were smart they would shun the traditional date of the celebration of Saturnalia and instead celebrate Christmas on January 8 as the Eastern Orthodox do. In that way you still get to take part in a co-opted pagan holiday but also get lots of great buys on presents during the after-Christmas reductions.

I thought it was January 6th.

here in Mexico it is the commemoration of the Three Magi's visit to the baby Jesus.

[captainfearnot]

I don't know what Jeremiah is talking about specifically in that chapter, but I know it's not Christmas trees. Based on the surrounding context, I'd guess he was condemning the practice of carving wooden idols in order to worship them.

As far as winter solstice celebrations, doing good has always been a part of them, virtually across all cultures. Gathering with family, giving gifts, even suspending wars and personal disputes and grudges for the season.

You might even say it was eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. To our ancient ancestors, the winter months meant death. Gathering together to celebrate life in the face of oncoming death is a beautiful thing to me. Beautiful, lovely, of good report, and praiseworthy, in fact.

[marc]

Oh yeah, what about Jeremiah 10: 2-4:
"Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen .. for the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest .. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

;)

Yup. Pagans practiced this during each winter solstice thousands of years before Christ and Romans later did as well during their Saturnalia, which festival celebrated merrymaking. They decorated such trees with silver and gold and replicas of Bacchus, also known as Dionysus, the god of wine/grape harvest/ritual madness/fertility. Decorating trees and celebrating merry making during this time have been a ritual ever since.

[freedomforall]

I'm afraid I'm a bit of a Scrouge when it comes to Christmas.
I cannot stand all of the commercialism and stupidness (I know the word should be stupidity but I think stupidness is more accurate) that surrounds it. I just cannot bear it.

The Lord asked us to do one thing in remembrance of him and that was to take the sacrament.
He didn't ask us to cut down a tree and decorate it (which originates with Nimrod), or to exchange presents, or to feast, or to eat egg shaped chocolate at Easter etc.
It's all ridiculous.

The three wise men presented gifts to baby Jesus. Is that ridiculous?
The Lord says to be charitable, and giving of gifts can be included in that command. Therefore, is it also ridiculous?
Going back to the three wise men, of course.