No where in scripture does is say to celebrate Christmas.

[rewcox]

I have a sleigh too.

image.jpeg (481.46 KiB) Viewed 1212 times

[Ezra]

I have a sleigh too.

image.jpeg

Do you use draft horses?

[The ward heretic]

I have been contemplating how seriously we should take our own salvation.

I have often thought that we have a running tally of how much time is spent doing certain things.

112 hr a week sleeping.
40 hr a week working.
28 hr a week watching tv.
14hr a week commuting.
10.5 hr a week eating.
3 hr a week in church
30 min in prayer.

You know something along those lines.

Point being for most people we spend very little time putting effort or our time into devotion towards God. In service to him. In thought of his ways.

We are distracted.

Christmas has become a distraction that same way in my mind.

1 hour teaching about the true meaning of Christmas and the other 2 months building up Santa and presents.

I just wonder how much better should we be? How much better do we need to be at dedicating our life's to God to make it to the celestial kingdom? To be part of the few?

I would love to see this Christmas be about Christ.

My family and I will not be celebrating Santa this year and every year from now on.
We will be celebrating our savior. And trying to be in his service by giving the least of these the gifts that he would give himself to the best of our knowledge.

Who wants to join me in this?
And if you already do this please tell me what you do for your Christmas family traditions to focus only on our savior. And not on the things of the world.

It doesn't say it anywhere in scripture, but if we can only do things listed in scripture......life would indeed be boring.

We go the St. Nick is Santa route. You ask my boy why we give and get presents (even the one Santa brings) and he'll say......Jesus. We tell him that the Lord taught Santa to follow the example from the wisemen, he magical because of his faith in the lord...etc...

Like most things, it's what you make of the traditions.

I love Christmas. I love the decorations, music, food, and ambience.

Early merry Christmas to you all!

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I once tried to help my mother in law, when she asked my wife (Kitkat) and I if we were going to celebrate Christmas, asking our kids if Santa was coming. I simply replied in my devious humor voice, "you are spelling it wrong mother - the N in Santa actually goes on the end of the word, not in the middle..." She thought for about 20 seconds, followed by an "ahhhh - Jared!"... she got it... Satan Santa never felt good to us as parents with our children, we are trying to put experiences in place of presents, and we have tried to teach the kids from early on that Christmas is a time to have the Savior come sup with us, so we are to prepare all year long and invite him to sup with us, so we will put out a plate for him on Christmas Eve and invite him to come and tell us some good stories only he can tell us.

[Robert Sinclair]

Interesting setting the plate out once a year, as that is exactly what the Jews do at Passover, set out a plate at supper for Elijah to come, sup with them, once each year.♡

[David13]

I once tried to help my mother in law, when she asked my wife (Kitkat) and I if we were going to celebrate Christmas, asking our kids if Santa was coming. I simply replied in my devious humor voice, "you are spelling it wrong mother - the N in Santa actually goes on the end of the word, not in the middle..." She thought for about 20 seconds, followed by an "ahhhh - Jared!"... she got it... Satan Santa never felt good to us as parents with our children, we are trying to put experiences in place of presents, and we have tried to teach the kids from early on that Christmas is a time to have the Savior come sup with us, so we are to prepare all year long and invite him to sup with us, so we will put out a plate for him on Christmas Eve and invite him to come and tell us some good stories only he can tell us.

I think you can have experience and presents.
I remember the experience from when I was a kid, long ago, it was the tree, and the lights, and the smell of the fresh cut pine, and being off school, and the snow, and being warm in the house, and all the relatives visiting, and food, just a relaxed happy atmosphere. Everyone in a pleasant mood. Just a nice time of year.

I was a Catholic in those days. So there was really no gospel to it, just a little mention of "Jesus birthday". And mass on Christmas morning or late night Christmas eve.
Catholicism always seemed a little shallow to me. In the Catholic school or in Catechism class the nuns always talked of the 'true meaning' and "Jesus birthday" but that's about as far as it went.
I like the lds idea of a year-round gospel.
dc

[ajax]

JWFF?

C'mon folks

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

I have nothing but fond memories of Christmas. Shall we walk around as a pre-enilghtened Scrooge, crowing humbug on the season? Or shall we see the light as post-enilightened Scrooge and spread cheer and goodwill to our fellows?

Celebrating the Commercialism of Christmas:
http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2 ... tmas/2939/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is nothing more predictable and cliche than the yearly denouncement of consumerism at Christmas. The Pope condemned the commercialization of Christmas at the Christmas Eve Mass last night and President Monson bemoaned the commercialization at Christmas at the annual First Presidency Christmas Devotional this year.

I think this yearly antagonism toward commercialism is wrong-headed and misguided. It ignores the nature of holidays, and ultimately, human nature as well. The criticism is generally based on the idea that in all the consumerism and commercialism we lose sight of the “true meaning of Christmas” and forget what Christmas is really “all about.” Nothing could be farther from the truth.

If you think about holidays for a moment, you will quickly realize that holidays are made by the traditions that surround them. Holidays with no traditions are not really holidays at all. The best holidays are the ones with the best (and most) traditions. Thanksgiving revolves around a big dinner, Halloween around costumes and trick-or-treating, the 4th of July around fireworks, Easter around baskets of candy and egg hunts. In a real sense, these traditions are the holiday. The second tier holidays have less traditions or traditions with a more limited appeal: St. Patrick’s day and wearing green clothes, Valentine’s day and giving chocolate to our wives and mistresses, April Fool’s day and playing tricks on people. Then there are the holidays with no widespread traditions surrounding them other than getting the day off school/work: Memorial day, Labor day, Columbus day, etc.

The impact of the holiday is directly proportional to the traditions that surround it. The impact is not just due to the existence of a tradition, but the nature of the tradition itself comes into play. Traditions that require more planning will have a bigger impact simply because we spend more time and attention getting ready for the holiday. Traditions with wide appeal will lead to a bigger holiday (costumes are funner than wearing green, which helps Halloween over St. Patrick’s day). There is additional weight to the holiday when the thing celebrated is of deeper significance (compare Memorial Day and Labor Day). It adds weight to the holiday when the traditions are congruent with the thing celebrated (Valentines Day+, Easter-).

It is instructive to compare the holiday observance of Christmas to Easter. Arguably, Easter is the holiday with the greater religious significance, but Easter is vastly surpassed by Christmas in our cultural and religious lives generally because of the differences in the traditions surrounding them. Easter traditions are obviously much less extensive than those at Christmas. The Easter traditions do not have a very wide appeal (Easter egg hunts are only fun for kids and even then not that fun. Peeps are treasured by a few sick souls, but most of us realize they are vile). The Easter bunny has no meaningful connection with the resurrection of Jesus. Most of Easter revolves around candy which is entirely commonplace. There are few if any beloved Easter songs. The question is: with Easter being less commercialized, is our observance of Christ’s resurrection more meaningful, pure, and complete than our observance of Christ’s birth? I think the answer is an emphatic and obvious “no!” Those who decry the commercialization of Christmas just fail to see the way Christmas is enhanced and embiggened by the traditions they denounce. If they had their way they would destroy the very parts of Christmas they themselves love.

Let’s think about how great Christmas is as a holiday. It has tons of traditions surrounding it including the most obvious tradition of gift-giving. We spend tons of time figuring out what we are going to give to others, purchasing gifts, and wrapping gifts. As a result we spend a whole month thinking about Christmas, seeing signs in every store that it is the Christmas season, and hearing Christmas songs when we are shopping. Most families have traditions surrounding their Christmas meals. Christmas has the best (and by far the most) holiday songs of any holiday. The traditions of Christmas have immense appeal even across religious and cultural boundaries (I was just talking with someone at work from another country who is not Christian and not American but will be observing a host of Christmas traditions this year because his children have been swept up in the cultural observance of Christmas and are demanding it!). The traditions surrounding Christmas are wonderfully congruent with the thing celebrated. This last point deserves its own paragraph.

Easter is the poster child for holidays with traditions that don’t match the thing celebrated. Its Bunny and colorful eggs don’t remind us at all of the resurrection of Christ. Attempts to link the two are strained and weak. Christmas, to the contrary, is positively enhanced by the tradition of gift-giving (which is the target of the anti-commercialization crowd). Giving gifts to others is a huge part of the Christmas spirit that everyone loves. In giving gifts we focus on the people around us and we have to think about them and what they might want (there is no standby gift of flowers/chocolate like on Valentine’s Day). Gift-giving spills over to a focus on lifting up the weary and oppressed. My largely atheist and non-Christian group of coworkers pool money every Christmas season to adopt-a-family and provide presents for a family in need. More people visit nursing homes during the Christmas season than at other times of the year.

Could this spirit of giving exist without all the consumerism and buying of gift? Sure, it is logically possible, but I would point out that it doesn’t accompany Easter. I think a big part of the reason is that as we anticipate a wonderful Christmas morning for ourselves with presents and fun, we think of others and want to give them some of the same Christmas cheer we anticipate. Santa, as opposed to the Easter Bunny, is a perfect secular stand-in for Christ as he keeps track of who is naughty and nice, dispensing gifts to all good children (which turns out to be everyone) and coal to the naughty. It is simply no stretch at all to see in Christmas giving a shadow of our Savior who gave himself and his Father who loved the world and gave his only begotten Son.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I once tried to help my mother in law, when she asked my wife (Kitkat) and I if we were going to celebrate Christmas, asking our kids if Santa was coming. I simply replied in my devious humor voice, "you are spelling it wrong mother - the N in Santa actually goes on the end of the word, not in the middle..." She thought for about 20 seconds, followed by an "ahhhh - Jared!"... she got it... Satan Santa never felt good to us as parents with our children, we are trying to put experiences in place of presents, and we have tried to teach the kids from early on that Christmas is a time to have the Savior come sup with us, so we are to prepare all year long and invite him to sup with us, so we will put out a plate for him on Christmas Eve and invite him to come and tell us some good stories only he can tell us.

I think you can have experience and presents.
I remember the experience from when I was a kid, long ago, it was the tree, and the lights, and the smell of the fresh cut pine, and being off school, and the snow, and being warm in the house, and all the relatives visiting, and food, just a relaxed happy atmosphere. Everyone in a pleasant mood. Just a nice time of year.

I was a Catholic in those days. So there was really no gospel to it, just a little mention of "Jesus birthday". And mass on Christmas morning or late night Christmas eve.
Catholicism always seemed a little shallow to me. In the Catholic school or in Catechism class the nuns always talked of the 'true meaning' and "Jesus birthday" but that's about as far as it went.
I like the lds idea of a year-round gospel.
dc

I would agree, maybe we should have said, PURCHASED presents will not be a part of our Christmas, as gifts made with hands are indeed part of our Christmas. We started the tradition of only putting ornaments we make as a family together on the tree, and so far, those ornaments are the talk of each Christmas each year by the children, reminiscing on the memories surrounding the making of them each year.

For some reason, when we are in God's canvas (nature) and use it as the spirit directs, be it for food, gifts, or Christmas, the spirit abounds much more then if we go buy something at the store.

[Ezra]

I have been contemplating how seriously we should take our own salvation.

I have often thought that we have a running tally of how much time is spent doing certain things.

112 hr a week sleeping.
40 hr a week working.
28 hr a week watching tv.
14hr a week commuting.
10.5 hr a week eating.
3 hr a week in church
30 min in prayer.

You know something along those lines.

Point being for most people we spend very little time putting effort or our time into devotion towards God. In service to him. In thought of his ways.

We are distracted.

Christmas has become a distraction that same way in my mind.

1 hour teaching about the true meaning of Christmas and the other 2 months building up Santa and presents.

I just wonder how much better should we be? How much better do we need to be at dedicating our life's to God to make it to the celestial kingdom? To be part of the few?

I would love to see this Christmas be about Christ.

My family and I will not be celebrating Santa this year and every year from now on.
We will be celebrating our savior. And trying to be in his service by giving the least of these the gifts that he would give himself to the best of our knowledge.

Who wants to join me in this?
And if you already do this please tell me what you do for your Christmas family traditions to focus only on our savior. And not on the things of the world.

It doesn't say it anywhere in scripture, but if we can only do things listed in scripture......life would indeed be boring.

We go the St. Nick is Santa route. You ask my boy why we give and get presents (even the one Santa brings) and he'll say......Jesus. We tell him that the Lord taught Santa to follow the example from the wisemen, he magical because of his faith in the lord...etc...

Like most things, it's what you make of the traditions.

I love Christmas. I love the decorations, music, food, and ambience.

Early merry Christmas to you all!

Santa is a fictitious lie.

Nicholas of Myra or st nick was a real person that did good things.

Are we celebrating him nick or Christs birthday?

And what does telling made up fictitious story's of Nicholas of Myra. Which is Not even telling his true story have anything to do with the celebration of the birth and life of Christ?

It really is confusing to me how it all came about.

The only way I can peice it together is that satan wanted to distract us from celebrating Christ.

Yes there are good people who try to do both. Try.
But it all boils down to what do you put first? How much time is spent in teaching Christ vs satan claws.
And then if you are even thinking on those terms of what do you put first. In action and deed and thought. Why would you even want to have something in the equation that does not need to be there.

It's kinda like being able to drink from the fountain of youth. But figuring out just how much poison you can drink at the same time.


There are tons of ways to have fun. Give gifts. And have great Christmas traditions that don't involve lying or bringing in the counterfeit Christ
To do so.

And yes satan claws is a counterfeit.
Think about it.
He knows when you are sleeping knows when your awake knows if you been bad or good so be good for goodness sake.
Delivers toys to all the kids of the entire world in one night.

So we teach satan claws is all knowing all powerful all wise. Our judge jury and executioner.

And God told us to have no others gods befor him.

Satan has tricks us by saying this teaching is good. It's fun. It's for the kids.
But what does the teaching is satan claws teach kids?
It teaches them to "want and desire after the things of the world" they can't wait to unwrap them and it doesn't matter how good or bad they were they get them anyways.

[Robert Sinclair]

Ezra,
Is every parable or story or fairy tale not to be told?

One can still tell the truth by saying in advance that this is a parable, or fairy tale or a story of imagination, and not real, but just to enjoy for the lessons it might teach, as many parables and fairy tales and stories, tend to do.

One does not have to lie, to enjoy family time together, and giving to others, while still telling favorite fairy tales, stories, and parables, and traditions.♡

[kennyhs]

nevermind, Merry Christmas!

[Ezra]

Ezra,
Is every parable or story or fairy tale not to be told?

One can still tell the truth by saying in advance that this is a parable, or fairy tale or a story of imagination, and not real, but just to enjoy for the lessons it might teach, as many parables and fairy tales and stories, tend to do.

One does not have to lie, to enjoy family time together, and giving to others, while still telling favorite fairy tales, stories, and parables, and traditions.♡

I sometimes feel no one reads my posts just what they want to.

You are in agreeance with me. We don't need to lie. Santa is a lie. Nicholas of Myra is not.
A parable is not a lie it's a teaching. Santa is a teaching but not one of Christ.

But of an imposter that we substitute in place of Christ during Christs birthday celebration.

Why?

Because it's easy to go the way of the world over the way of God.
People would rather focus on anything other then what will get them to heaven.

It's a distraction. And that is part of the test why we are here. To see what we will do. If we will choose the world or God. There is no middle ground.
The lord will spit out those who are luke warm.

[Ezra]

Satan claws my be your man this is mine.

[Robert Sinclair]

My children know, Christmas time is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ for most of the Christian world, for the rest of the world does not celebrate his birth. The Jews, and Muslims, Buddists and other people of this world, have no such time set aside to think about Jesus Christ and his gift to us. Jesus Christ taught to give, Nicholas did just that with his inheritance, obeyed Jesus Christ and gave to the poor, fairy tales have come from his actions, and all kinds of stories. I know of no one else calling St Nicholas "Satan Claws", or Snow White, or Bambi, or any other fairy tales of "Satan", I think you are going a little deep on trying to make such an example from fairy tales.

But it is a free agency thing, and you are free to feel as you do. I only say, balance of good and evil, right and wrong, stories made up, fairy tales, imagination and dreams, are what they are, as are parables. All have their place in life.♡

[Ezra]

Satan claws is far from Bambi. One is about a deer. The other is a full on lie that teaches children that there is another who is all powerful all knowing all wise. Judge jury. All the things Christ is supposed to be.

And they do this in place of teaching Christ. In place. Not addition too. Or as a side note. In place of. Most of the world does not teach Christ in Christmas. It's a. It's a big problem.

The entire world as you point out does This.
Only a few teach Christmas is about Christ. I glad you too can see the problem.

We can teach about Nicholas of Myra anytime during the year. And we should. But why not focus on Christ during his birthday celebration??

That's like inviting everyone over to celebrate your bday and the Only sing you happy bday. And spend the rest of the entire week/ month celebrating someone else that your family never met or has any ties to made up story's.

That would make me feel like junk.

[Dash jones]

I once tried to help my mother in law, when she asked my wife (Kitkat) and I if we were going to celebrate Christmas, asking our kids if Santa was coming. I simply replied in my devious humor voice, "you are spelling it wrong mother - the N in Santa actually goes on the end of the word, not in the middle..." She thought for about 20 seconds, followed by an "ahhhh - Jared!"... she got it... Satan Santa never felt good to us as parents with our children, we are trying to put experiences in place of presents, and we have tried to teach the kids from early on that Christmas is a time to have the Savior come sup with us, so we are to prepare all year long and invite him to sup with us, so we will put out a plate for him on Christmas Eve and invite him to come and tell us some good stories only he can tell us.

I think you can have experience and presents.
I remember the experience from when I was a kid, long ago, it was the tree, and the lights, and the smell of the fresh cut pine, and being off school, and the snow, and being warm in the house, and all the relatives visiting, and food, just a relaxed happy atmosphere. Everyone in a pleasant mood. Just a nice time of year.

I was a Catholic in those days. So there was really no gospel to it, just a little mention of "Jesus birthday". And mass on Christmas morning or late night Christmas eve.
Catholicism always seemed a little shallow to me. In the Catholic school or in Catechism class the nuns always talked of the 'true meaning' and "Jesus birthday" but that's about as far as it went.
I like the lds idea of a year-round gospel.
dc

AWESOME...I tend to favor the late night (midnight) mass on Christmas Eve/Christmas Morning. Just myself talking of course in a NON-LDS context.

You are right though in many ways. It is a lot of presents and other things and really only mass and a little talk about the Birth of our Lord. It's different in the LDS church?

[kennyhs]

[Kitkat]

JWFF?

C'mon folks

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

I have nothing but fond memories of Christmas. Shall we walk around as a pre-enilghtened Scrooge, crowing humbug on the season? Or shall we see the light as post-enilightened Scrooge and spread cheer and goodwill to our fellows?

Celebrating the Commercialism of Christmas:
http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2 ... tmas/2939/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is nothing more predictable and cliche than the yearly denouncement of consumerism at Christmas. The Pope condemned the commercialization of Christmas at the Christmas Eve Mass last night and President Monson bemoaned the commercialization at Christmas at the annual First Presidency Christmas Devotional this year.

I think this yearly antagonism toward commercialism is wrong-headed and misguided. It ignores the nature of holidays, and ultimately, human nature as well. The criticism is generally based on the idea that in all the consumerism and commercialism we lose sight of the “true meaning of Christmas” and forget what Christmas is really “all about.” Nothing could be farther from the truth.

If you think about holidays for a moment, you will quickly realize that holidays are made by the traditions that surround them. Holidays with no traditions are not really holidays at all. The best holidays are the ones with the best (and most) traditions. Thanksgiving revolves around a big dinner, Halloween around costumes and trick-or-treating, the 4th of July around fireworks, Easter around baskets of candy and egg hunts. In a real sense, these traditions are the holiday. The second tier holidays have less traditions or traditions with a more limited appeal: St. Patrick’s day and wearing green clothes, Valentine’s day and giving chocolate to our wives and mistresses, April Fool’s day and playing tricks on people. Then there are the holidays with no widespread traditions surrounding them other than getting the day off school/work: Memorial day, Labor day, Columbus day, etc.

The impact of the holiday is directly proportional to the traditions that surround it. The impact is not just due to the existence of a tradition, but the nature of the tradition itself comes into play. Traditions that require more planning will have a bigger impact simply because we spend more time and attention getting ready for the holiday. Traditions with wide appeal will lead to a bigger holiday (costumes are funner than wearing green, which helps Halloween over St. Patrick’s day). There is additional weight to the holiday when the thing celebrated is of deeper significance (compare Memorial Day and Labor Day). It adds weight to the holiday when the traditions are congruent with the thing celebrated (Valentines Day+, Easter-).

It is instructive to compare the holiday observance of Christmas to Easter. Arguably, Easter is the holiday with the greater religious significance, but Easter is vastly surpassed by Christmas in our cultural and religious lives generally because of the differences in the traditions surrounding them. Easter traditions are obviously much less extensive than those at Christmas. The Easter traditions do not have a very wide appeal (Easter egg hunts are only fun for kids and even then not that fun. Peeps are treasured by a few sick souls, but most of us realize they are vile). The Easter bunny has no meaningful connection with the resurrection of Jesus. Most of Easter revolves around candy which is entirely commonplace. There are few if any beloved Easter songs. The question is: with Easter being less commercialized, is our observance of Christ’s resurrection more meaningful, pure, and complete than our observance of Christ’s birth? I think the answer is an emphatic and obvious “no!” Those who decry the commercialization of Christmas just fail to see the way Christmas is enhanced and embiggened by the traditions they denounce. If they had their way they would destroy the very parts of Christmas they themselves love.

Let’s think about how great Christmas is as a holiday. It has tons of traditions surrounding it including the most obvious tradition of gift-giving. We spend tons of time figuring out what we are going to give to others, purchasing gifts, and wrapping gifts. As a result we spend a whole month thinking about Christmas, seeing signs in every store that it is the Christmas season, and hearing Christmas songs when we are shopping. Most families have traditions surrounding their Christmas meals. Christmas has the best (and by far the most) holiday songs of any holiday. The traditions of Christmas have immense appeal even across religious and cultural boundaries (I was just talking with someone at work from another country who is not Christian and not American but will be observing a host of Christmas traditions this year because his children have been swept up in the cultural observance of Christmas and are demanding it!). The traditions surrounding Christmas are wonderfully congruent with the thing celebrated. This last point deserves its own paragraph.

Easter is the poster child for holidays with traditions that don’t match the thing celebrated. Its Bunny and colorful eggs don’t remind us at all of the resurrection of Christ. Attempts to link the two are strained and weak. Christmas, to the contrary, is positively enhanced by the tradition of gift-giving (which is the target of the anti-commercialization crowd). Giving gifts to others is a huge part of the Christmas spirit that everyone loves. In giving gifts we focus on the people around us and we have to think about them and what they might want (there is no standby gift of flowers/chocolate like on Valentine’s Day). Gift-giving spills over to a focus on lifting up the weary and oppressed. My largely atheist and non-Christian group of coworkers pool money every Christmas season to adopt-a-family and provide presents for a family in need. More people visit nursing homes during the Christmas season than at other times of the year.

Could this spirit of giving exist without all the consumerism and buying of gift? Sure, it is logically possible, but I would point out that it doesn’t accompany Easter. I think a big part of the reason is that as we anticipate a wonderful Christmas morning for ourselves with presents and fun, we think of others and want to give them some of the same Christmas cheer we anticipate. Santa, as opposed to the Easter Bunny, is a perfect secular stand-in for Christ as he keeps track of who is naughty and nice, dispensing gifts to all good children (which turns out to be everyone) and coal to the naughty. It is simply no stretch at all to see in Christmas giving a shadow of our Savior who gave himself and his Father who loved the world and gave his only begotten Son.

Yes Christmas is a lovely time of year drenched with many lovely traditions. There has to be a balance somewhere...probably different for everyone. I love the thought process of gift giving too, thinking about what kind of a gift would light up my children's little faces is fun. The catch...and maybe the precipice gift buying leads to, especially for young children is even when they have gorged themselves on new toys they are not fulfilled. Yes their pleasure receptors are overflowing, but I want their joy receptors to overflow as well.

We will probably do some gift buying (still up for debate )but I always have the children buy for each other, rather than Santa getting all the glory. It builds love between siblings too.

When I was little my younger brother refused to tell my parents what he wanted for Christmas because money was tight and he told my mom not to worry because Santa would buy all the expensive presents. Ha ha good memories for sure.

[Ezra]

JWFF?

C'mon folks

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

I have nothing but fond memories of Christmas. Shall we walk around as a pre-enilghtened Scrooge, crowing humbug on the season? Or shall we see the light as post-enilightened Scrooge and spread cheer and goodwill to our fellows?

Celebrating the Commercialism of Christmas:
http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2 ... tmas/2939/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is nothing more predictable and cliche than the yearly denouncement of consumerism at Christmas. The Pope condemned the commercialization of Christmas at the Christmas Eve Mass last night and President Monson bemoaned the commercialization at Christmas at the annual First Presidency Christmas Devotional this year.

I think this yearly antagonism toward commercialism is wrong-headed and misguided. It ignores the nature of holidays, and ultimately, human nature as well. The criticism is generally based on the idea that in all the consumerism and commercialism we lose sight of the “true meaning of Christmas” and forget what Christmas is really “all about.” Nothing could be farther from the truth.

If you think about holidays for a moment, you will quickly realize that holidays are made by the traditions that surround them. Holidays with no traditions are not really holidays at all. The best holidays are the ones with the best (and most) traditions. Thanksgiving revolves around a big dinner, Halloween around costumes and trick-or-treating, the 4th of July around fireworks, Easter around baskets of candy and egg hunts. In a real sense, these traditions are the holiday. The second tier holidays have less traditions or traditions with a more limited appeal: St. Patrick’s day and wearing green clothes, Valentine’s day and giving chocolate to our wives and mistresses, April Fool’s day and playing tricks on people. Then there are the holidays with no widespread traditions surrounding them other than getting the day off school/work: Memorial day, Labor day, Columbus day, etc.

The impact of the holiday is directly proportional to the traditions that surround it. The impact is not just due to the existence of a tradition, but the nature of the tradition itself comes into play. Traditions that require more planning will have a bigger impact simply because we spend more time and attention getting ready for the holiday. Traditions with wide appeal will lead to a bigger holiday (costumes are funner than wearing green, which helps Halloween over St. Patrick’s day). There is additional weight to the holiday when the thing celebrated is of deeper significance (compare Memorial Day and Labor Day). It adds weight to the holiday when the traditions are congruent with the thing celebrated (Valentines Day+, Easter-).

It is instructive to compare the holiday observance of Christmas to Easter. Arguably, Easter is the holiday with the greater religious significance, but Easter is vastly surpassed by Christmas in our cultural and religious lives generally because of the differences in the traditions surrounding them. Easter traditions are obviously much less extensive than those at Christmas. The Easter traditions do not have a very wide appeal (Easter egg hunts are only fun for kids and even then not that fun. Peeps are treasured by a few sick souls, but most of us realize they are vile). The Easter bunny has no meaningful connection with the resurrection of Jesus. Most of Easter revolves around candy which is entirely commonplace. There are few if any beloved Easter songs. The question is: with Easter being less commercialized, is our observance of Christ’s resurrection more meaningful, pure, and complete than our observance of Christ’s birth? I think the answer is an emphatic and obvious “no!” Those who decry the commercialization of Christmas just fail to see the way Christmas is enhanced and embiggened by the traditions they denounce. If they had their way they would destroy the very parts of Christmas they themselves love.

Let’s think about how great Christmas is as a holiday. It has tons of traditions surrounding it including the most obvious tradition of gift-giving. We spend tons of time figuring out what we are going to give to others, purchasing gifts, and wrapping gifts. As a result we spend a whole month thinking about Christmas, seeing signs in every store that it is the Christmas season, and hearing Christmas songs when we are shopping. Most families have traditions surrounding their Christmas meals. Christmas has the best (and by far the most) holiday songs of any holiday. The traditions of Christmas have immense appeal even across religious and cultural boundaries (I was just talking with someone at work from another country who is not Christian and not American but will be observing a host of Christmas traditions this year because his children have been swept up in the cultural observance of Christmas and are demanding it!). The traditions surrounding Christmas are wonderfully congruent with the thing celebrated. This last point deserves its own paragraph.

Easter is the poster child for holidays with traditions that don’t match the thing celebrated. Its Bunny and colorful eggs don’t remind us at all of the resurrection of Christ. Attempts to link the two are strained and weak. Christmas, to the contrary, is positively enhanced by the tradition of gift-giving (which is the target of the anti-commercialization crowd). Giving gifts to others is a huge part of the Christmas spirit that everyone loves. In giving gifts we focus on the people around us and we have to think about them and what they might want (there is no standby gift of flowers/chocolate like on Valentine’s Day). Gift-giving spills over to a focus on lifting up the weary and oppressed. My largely atheist and non-Christian group of coworkers pool money every Christmas season to adopt-a-family and provide presents for a family in need. More people visit nursing homes during the Christmas season than at other times of the year.

Could this spirit of giving exist without all the consumerism and buying of gift? Sure, it is logically possible, but I would point out that it doesn’t accompany Easter. I think a big part of the reason is that as we anticipate a wonderful Christmas morning for ourselves with presents and fun, we think of others and want to give them some of the same Christmas cheer we anticipate. Santa, as opposed to the Easter Bunny, is a perfect secular stand-in for Christ as he keeps track of who is naughty and nice, dispensing gifts to all good children (which turns out to be everyone) and coal to the naughty. It is simply no stretch at all to see in Christmas giving a shadow of our Savior who gave himself and his Father who loved the world and gave his only begotten Son.

So your not following the prophet on this one??

[Ezra]

I'm not sure satan will ever bow to Christ.

He has to be crazy hot and stinky sweaty in the heat of Bethlehem during that time of year since Christ was not born in winter.

[Dash jones]

Satan claws my be your man this is mine.

Cesare Borgia in a robe is your man????

:p

[Fiannan]

In this season dedicated to Saturnalia maybe we should at least hang a few planetary decorations on the fertility tree?

[Ezra]

http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Good artical

[Robert Sinclair]

Satan claws is far from Bambi. One is about a deer. The other is a full on lie that teaches children that there is another who is all powerful all knowing all wise. Judge jury. All the things Christ is supposed to be.

And they do this in place of teaching Christ. In place. Not addition too. Or as a side note. In place of. Most of the world does not teach Christ in Christmas. It's a. It's a big problem.

The entire world as you point out does This.
Only a few teach Christmas is about Christ. I glad you too can see the problem.

We can teach about Nicholas of Myra anytime during the year. And we should. But why not focus on Christ during his birthday celebration??

That's like inviting everyone over to celebrate your bday and the Only sing you happy bday. And spend the rest of the entire week/ month celebrating someone else that your family never met or has any ties to made up story's.

That would make me feel like junk.

"Satan Claws"-------

All powerful? All knowing? All wise? Judge and Jury?

This is getting a little out there, as I have never have seen stories that would equate St Nicholas with equal to the Savior of the world ever.

This is way off base to fairy tales I have been told as a child, and have read books of. Just plain old, be good, or Santa might not bring you a present. No harm done with this fairy tale, to me that I have ever experienced.♡

What happens to your poor children, when they go out into the world and come home with stories to tell, do you tell them Santa Clause is none other than Satan himself?

Does this not upset them?

I hope things work out for you.♡

[kennyhs]

I don't think Rudolph likes Christmas either!