Born again? Prove it!

[shadow]

I think the title of the thread isn't asking if one has been born again or not but if those who claim they have can prove it. As far as those on this site who enjoy publicly claiming they have, I'd say they haven't proved it and if anything they've proved the contrary.

[ilovetherain]

I disagree! I am anonymous. No one knows who I am. I stated a fact that I thought would be helpful. We are to seek our calling & election and seek the face of the Lord. Every member of the Church is to seek for these things. Just because you share as an anonymous person, doesn't discredit or nullify the reality.

[Dash jones]

There is a great difference between what I understand being Born Again is in Mormonism, and what it may be in other faiths.

For example, in many Baptist Faiths, it IS all that is needed, and when you understand WHAT it means, you will understand WHY you only need to be born again once and why that means salvation for you.

In many ways, being Born again is almost like that Calling and Election that people talk about in the LDS faith, but it is felt in your heart instead of seen or otherwise done.

In this way, one who is born again no longer feels the desire or need to sin and turns away. They follow Christ because their heart has truly changed and their desire is towards him instead of towards sin. Hence they are Born Again, and are saved into salvation.

One cannot tell if another is born again, but in many instances, one who has been born again can be seen through their actions, in that they will always follow the Lord instead of choosing to sin. The sin has literally become despicable to them, and their love to do good is through that mighty change of heart and being Born Again.

There is NO way to Prove one has been born again in this mortal life short of the Lord showing himself to everyone and reading a list (which I suspect will not happen). However, by observing the actions of someone, it can be an indicator of whether their claims of being born again are true or not.

These are not ideas I necessarily believe in, but I think it is important to point out that being Born Again as per several Baptist denominations (and possibly other Protestant religions) is vastly different than what Mormons think, and in many ways is very similar to the idea of a Calling and Election made sure rather than simply a baptism of fire.

A Very different idea than that of LDS Mormons (from what I've read about being born again on these forums recently according to Mormons).

[2ndRateMind]

...
There is more of interest here. Doing what you please is not Christlike, nor what he taught. And what seems good to you may or may not actually BE good. It is a worldly and Satanic idea that we are gods unto ourselves and can determine for ourselves what is good. That is the reason that GOd gave us commandments, sent us prophets, and Christ himself to teach us.
...

2ndRateMind,

If you read scripture you will learn that Loving God is not enough to know his will. Whether it be Moses climbing Mt. Sinai, or Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, The will of God was only found after much prayer and searching!

Regards,

George Clay

Hmmm. George, in these and other posts on this thread, you seem to think that God's Will is a burden that good people must carry, and subject themselves to, whether they like it or not. I have to say, I do not find it so. I am reminded of the phrase: 'in who's service is perfect freedom'. For, as has already been pointed out, the born again do not want sin, and do not desire it, and recoil from it.

Morality and ethics are good to study, and debate, and consider. I have no argument with either theology or philosophy as fields of enquiry. We ought to reflect on the nature of God's will, and the essence that distinguishes a good action from a bad action, and we ought to bring these two lines of approach into consistency with each other, so far as we can. For, I am persuaded, God's Will for us, and perfect morality, are not different entities. Nevertheless, I also think there is a shortcut to academic discussions, and that shortcut is simply to be born again. Which means to love God, and His creation, wholly, perfectly and completely, so that all subsequent activity must be to nurture the world, nourish it in wholesome ways, value it beyond all riches, and so make God immanent. And this all before such petty concerns as one's comfort, or social status, or financial security.

To be born again is to dance to the tune of God, not because one has to, but because one wants to, and desires nothing else, and nothing else allows that degree of self-expression.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Zathura]

I think the title of the thread isn't asking if one has been born again or not but if those who claim they have can prove it. As far as those on this site who enjoy publicly claiming they have, I'd say they haven't proved it and if anything they've proved the contrary.

In sharing experiences you prove yourself a fraud?
Since Joseph and Alma and Nephi and Moroni all made public claims about spiritual experiences, they proved the contrary as well?

[gclayjr]

2ndRateMind,

I hate to rain upon your parade, but anything worthwhile is not easy, it is not meant to be. You make assertions that sound sweet.

To be born again is to dance to the tune of God, not because one has to, but because one wants to, and desires nothing else, and nothing else allows that degree of self-expression.

but have no root in reality. I just showed you the tip of the Iceberg, when I referenced struggles of both Moses, and Jesus to learn and follow the will of God. Unfortunately, while the above may sound sweet, it is actually dangerous in that it gives you a reason for not needing to make the effort to either truly come to know God, or to learn and follow his will as to what HE wants of you. Satan will be pleased at each one of us who for whatever reason chooses to just do his own thing without making the effort to get to know GOd, his will and try to follow it.

You say you are not LDS, yet you have chosen to participate in an LDS themed board. Would you be curious enough to obtain and read a copy of the Book of Mormon? Would you be willing to just read the 1st Book (1st Nephi... only about 50 pages) in it? It might help you to understand. You can get a free copy from your local LDS Church or missionaries. If you send me a private message, I will send you one.

Regards,

George Clay

[Zathura]

Anyone who shares his experiences only to prove something is a fool.
In my experience, those who have shared their experience did so because the Holy Spirit urged them to, so that they could share the delicious fruit that they partook of.

[shadow]

I think the title of the thread isn't asking if one has been born again or not but if those who claim they have can prove it. As far as those on this site who enjoy publicly claiming they have, I'd say they haven't proved it and if anything they've proved the contrary.

In sharing experiences you prove yourself a fraud?
Since Joseph and Alma and Nephi and Moroni all made public claims about spiritual experiences, they proved the contrary as well?

That's not what I said.

[Zathura]

I think the title of the thread isn't asking if one has been born again or not but if those who claim they have can prove it. As far as those on this site who enjoy publicly claiming they have, I'd say they haven't proved it and if anything they've proved the contrary.

In sharing experiences you prove yourself a fraud?
Since Joseph and Alma and Nephi and Moroni all made public claims about spiritual experiences, they proved the contrary as well?

That's not what I said.

You mention those on this site who enjoy publically claiming that they've been born of God. You said those specific group of people have not proved that they've been born of God, but they proved contrary. Are you not saying that those that have publically shared that they've been born again proved that they haven't been?

[2ndRateMind]

Just a quick intervention, on the thread title.

Perhaps it was unduly provocative.

I did not mean that we should prove ourselves to each other. I am perfectly prepared to believe that all those who consider themselves born again, are indeed, born again, at least as far as present company is concerned.

I am more interested in what we do for God, and do for the world, irrespective of what we say to each other about ourselves. The challenge was thrown down for each of us to pick up as privately or publicly as we wish, and no aspersions were meant.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[abelchirino]

Jesus said "born of water and of the Spirit". I haven't read through all of the comments but one think came to mind. Could it be that we are born again when we receive the Holy Ghost but that baptism is just a requirement for it? We're told, during confirmation, to receive the Holy Ghost, but we have the freedom to choose when to receive Him. The Lord says, in 3 Nephi 27:20

Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

Repenting, coming unto Him and making a covenant with Him (in this case through baptism), are the requirements to be worthy to receive the Holy Ghost. The receiving is then our opportunity or privilege, but it doesn't happen necessarily because of our meeting the requirements. With me, I was baptized at 8, but I can say that I didn't really receive the Holy Ghost until 11 (when I finally sought it). Since then I have noticed one thing every time I'm ministered by the Holy Ghost or it comes to dwell in me, after that experience I will feel completely clean (spiritually), sinless and even weightless for a few days. It is my belief, and I think the scriptures back me, that the Holy Ghost naturally has a cleansing/sanctifying power. When He dwells in you and ministers to you, it automatically cleanses/sanctifies you. Unfortunately, after a few days, if you're not too careful, Babylon might stain you again and that is why continual repentance, constantly seeking to perfect oneself and constantly seeking the companionship and guidance of the Holy Ghost is important -- that we may stand spotless before Christ at the last day.

[2ndRateMind]

2ndRateMind, You say you are not LDS, yet you have chosen to participate in an LDS themed board. Would you be curious enough to obtain and read a copy of the Book of Mormon? Would you be willing to just read the 1st Book (1st Nephi... only about 50 pages) in it? It might help you to understand. You can get a free copy from your local LDS Church or missionaries. If you send me a private message, I will send you one.

Regards,

George Clay

That's a kind offer, George. I have been meaning to buy a Book of Mormon for some time now. Perhaps, if Santa is kind this Christmas, I will be able to make the purchase early in the new year.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[shadow]

I think the title of the thread isn't asking if one has been born again or not but if those who claim they have can prove it. As far as those on this site who enjoy publicly claiming they have, I'd say they haven't proved it and if anything they've proved the contrary.

In sharing experiences you prove yourself a fraud?
Since Joseph and Alma and Nephi and Moroni all made public claims about spiritual experiences, they proved the contrary as well?

That's not what I said.

You mention those on this site who enjoy publically claiming that they've been born of God. You said those specific group of people have not proved that they've been born of God, but they proved contrary. Are you not saying that those that have publically shared that they've been born again proved that they haven't been?

I believe Joseph and Alma and Nephi and Moroni were all born again because of what they did, not because they just said they were. I can read their works, their works accomplished with humility and meekness and with the glory given to God. The fruit testifies of who they are.
Many local proclaimers don't have that fruit.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another

I just don't see those ^^^ in most of the self proclaimed born-again folks on this site, past and present.
The OP asked for proof, and the proof wouldn't be in stating it, the proof would be in acting like it.
Honestly, the proclaimers here don't act like it. If they're an example of one who has been born again then there wouldn't be much sense in being born again. If I ever see fruits of the spirit in their posts, then they'll be more believable. Until then they're like a yappy little dog that my brother owns, a lot of bark but absolutely no bite.

[Zathura]

Got it

[ilovetherain]

You can quote as many scriptures and prophetic statements on the subject matter as you wish. It is all helpful to those seeking for these experiences and blessings. But when it occurs in your life, the experiences leave you speechless. There are no words. Just tears of joy and gratitude to the Lord. The experiences take you to a higher place that you can't even describe. I'm not special or different than any one else because I have received. I am trying to make the point that WE ALL have the opportunity. Receiving these experiences is more about a lifetime or proving to the Lord you are His - than being perfect. Most think you have to have attained some kind of perfection - not true! So far the only book I have found that has helped me the most with these matters is John Pontius' book - Journey to the Veil. He is spot on.

[davedan]

There are 3 lessons we all must learn in life. These lessons can only be taught by the Spirit. Our attitude and actions about them reveals the state of our heart and spirit.

1. Love God
---attitude---do you love God?
---action---Do you look for opportunities to help others and even forgive, pray for and attempt to win over enemy's via service?

2. Control the Body
----attitude---do you wish to be pure in thoughts and actions?
----action--- are you currently living a virtuous life absent of sexual or recreational drug abusing sin?

3. Submit to God's priesthood authority
---are you willing to accept any calling in the Church and when the bishopric calls you gladly accept any assignment without excuse? (including wolf den leader, nursery and primary song leader)
---do you actually show up and magnify your callings instead of being passive aggressive continually not showing up until the bishop is forcef to make a change and do you actually do your home and visiting teaching?


We must learn to worship God in Spirit and in truth.

[Sarah]

Here are some hints that help us to determine if we're born again? Read carefully and see what the fine points revealed here are. By making a check list of these requirements, one can prove for themselves if they spiritually born again. However, the proof is between each of us and the Savior. It is no one else's business.

Alma 5:14-19,27-33,49,55,56
14 And now behold, I ask of you, my brethren of the church, have ye spiritually been born of God? Have ye received his image in your countenances? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?
15 Do ye exercise faith in the redemption of him who created you? Do you look forward with an eye of faith, and view this mortal body raised in immortality, and this corruption braised in incorruption, to stand before God to be judged according to the deeds which have been done in the mortal body?
16 I say unto you, can you imagine to yourselves that ye hear the voice of the Lord, saying unto you, in that day: Come unto me ye blessed, for behold, your works have been the works of righteousness upon the face of the earth?
17 Or do ye imagine to yourselves that ye can lie unto the Lord in that day, and say—Lord, our works have been righteous works upon the face of the earth—and that he will save you?
18 Or otherwise, can ye imagine yourselves brought before the tribunal of God with your souls filled with guilt and remorse, having a remembrance of all your guilt, yea, a perfect remembrance of all your wickedness, yea, a remembrance that ye have set at defiance the commandments of God?
19 I say unto you, can ye look up to God at that day with a pure heart and clean hands? I say unto you, can you look up, having the image of God engraven upon your countenances?
27 Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?
28 Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life.
29 Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is not prepared; and I would that he should prepare quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth not when the time shall come; for such an one is not found guiltless.
30 And again I say unto you, is there one among you that doth make a mock of his brother, or that heapeth upon him persecutions?
31 Wo unto such an one, for he is not prepared, and the time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved!
32 Yea, even wo unto all ye workers of iniquity; repent, repent, for the Lord God hath spoken it!
33 Behold, he sendeth an invitation unto all men, for the arms of mercy are extended towards them, and he saith: Repent, and I will receive you.
49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.
55 Yea, and will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor, and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?
56 And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.
All of Alma 5 is very good concerning being born again.

Mosiah 27:25 (24–27)
24 For, said he, I have repented of my sins, and have been redeemed of the Lord; behold I am born of the Spirit.
25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;
26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
27 I say unto you, unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off.

Alma 22:15
15 And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: What shall I do that I may have this eternal life of which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.

Rom. 6:3 (3–11)
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord

Romans 8:11 (11–17)
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Mosiah 5:2
2 And they all cried with one voice, saying: Yea, we believe all the words which thou hast spoken unto us; and also, we know of their surety and truth, because of the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.

Moses 6:65
65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.

1 Jn. 3:2 (1–3)
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Or simply skip over these things. Whose to know, Right?

Thank you for pointing these scriptures out. This really is the key - have you received His image in your countenance?
Like the song asks, "will He know you when he comes again, because you will be like Him?"

[Sarah]

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3 1-15 KJV

Being 'born again' is often spoken about, and claimed, as if it were a commonplace experience and a status that every Christian knows, and being a believing Christian is enough to qualify. I wonder what your testimonies are?

In my experience, there are two broad and distinct routes:

1. One has always believed, and gradually grows in the spirit, as one matures. For these fortunates, faith, hope and charity are integral to their psychologies, and always have been, and they cannot conceive of themselves without them.

2. One comes to belief suddenly, after doubts, questioning, and uncertainties. For such as these, the invasion of the heart by the love of the Holy Spirit may be intense, even traumatic. The injustices of the world, once known solely insofar as they affected oneself, are compounded, because one now knows they affect many, and disadvantage many. The empathy and sympathy bestowed by the Spirit is not bounded, and one feels full force the impoverishment of the world. It is an abrupt awakening, and harrowing. But it is not all bad news; one immediately perceives the relevance and virtue of those who fight daily for human rights, the end of corruption, a solution to global absolute poverty, and the resolution of all armed conflict.

So my theme for this thread is this; can one be born again and not know this ravishment of the heart, and the accompanying emotional vulnerability that leaves one tearful whenever one hears of vital needs unmet, or the merit and quality of soul that leads good people into striving to meet those needs?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Just wanted to address why we don't see the Church, and more Latter-Day-Saints fighting for human rights, end of poverty, no war etc. The quick answer is that the best and only solution to these problems is the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is why we flood the earth with missionaries. The word of God has more powerful effect on the hearts of people than any other thing, including public policy, and trying relieve suffering by simply giving handouts. That's not to say that we should not be involved in doing these things, but as a Church, the mission of the Church is to proclaim the word of God. When people begin to learn about Christ and his gospel which is two-pronged - Love others (help widows and orphans for example) AND be pure and clean (personal morality/goodness) - then the problems in the world disappear. The biggest thing that will alleviate suffering, is to strengthen the family and obey the law of Chastity, which is a huge part of the Laws of God. I admire those who dedicate their lives to trying to solve the worlds problems, but they usually are relying on man's solutions to try to help people. God's way of helping people is to get them to come to Him.

[Sarah]

2ndratemind, I also wanted to respond to the idea that if we are God's and are "born again," then we will automatically choose not to sin. This is something that we don't believe, but I know is a popular belief among Christians. I think it must have come about from the idea that we are only saved by grace and works mean nothing. The result has to be that our works are not really from us at all but are all from God. While we can say that good works are the result from promptings we receive from the Holy Ghost that is in us, ultimately (LDS believe) we always retain our agency, and that even though someone may be converted to Christ's gospel, there is still the opportunity for that individual to fall to temptation. I'd like to understand if Christians who believe the things you were conveying believe a born-again Christian would need to repent after they have been "born again" or had a moment of conversion.

[ilovetherain]

Being born again and receiving a baptism by fire are not the same.

[Thinker]

I believe Joseph and Alma and Nephi and Moroni were all born again because of what they did, not because they just said they were. I can read their works, their works accomplished with humility and meekness and with the glory given to God. The fruit testifies of who they are.
Many local proclaimers don't have that fruit.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another

I just don't see those ^^^ in most of the self proclaimed born-again folks on this site, past and present.
The OP asked for proof, and the proof wouldn't be in stating it, the proof would be in acting like it.
Honestly, the proclaimers here don't act like it. If they're an example of one who has been born again then there wouldn't be much sense in being born again. If I ever see fruits of the spirit in their posts, then they'll be more believable. Until then they're like a yappy little dog that my brother owns, a lot of bark but absolutely no bite.

Action speaks louder than words.
This forum is all words - and sometimes mean-spirited words.
I have been guilty of this.
And I think as you & also 2ndRateMind may be implying, that many of us WANT to be more spiritually advanced than we actually are.
I want to be loving, joyful, peace-making/peaceful, longsuffering, gentle, good, faithful, meek etc...
But often my imagination, pride and other issues hold me back.

I tell my kids - especially when they each got baptized, but also when I feel impressed to, that being born again is learning "good news" - the gospel is learning something new - which ideally, we will do our entire lives. I think that being spiritual being born again, may be extreme, especially if we were previously either going the opposite way (spiritual death) or even apathy - then it FEELS like we have a new life - we see everything in a new way - and it's delicious! I've experienced this several times, but it's not a one-time-stop and that's it. Ideally, we're born again and again... eternally progressing.

[Zathura]

Being born again and receiving a baptism by fire are not the same.

Kind of, you can have a baptism of fire without being born again.

The moment you are born again however, comes with a baptism of fire and a remission of sins.
You cannot be born again without a baptism of fire

[ilovetherain]

To be born again is something that happens at the beginning of your Gethsemane, and Baptism by Fire occurs near the end of your journey.

[rewcox]

Alma is an example of born again: they did impart much consolation to the church
Mosiah 27
23 And it came to pass after they had fasted and prayed for the space of two days and two nights, the limbs of Alma received their strength, and he stood up and began to speak unto them, bidding them to be of good comfort:

24 For, said he, I have repented of my sins, and have been redeemed of the Lord; behold I am born of the Spirit.

25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;

26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.

27 I say unto you, unless this be the case, they must be cast off; and this I know, because I was like to be cast off.

28 Nevertheless, after wading through much tribulation, repenting nigh unto death, the Lord in mercy hath seen fit to snatch me out of an everlasting burning, and I am born of God.

29 My soul hath been redeemed from the gall of bitterness and bonds of iniquity. I was in the darkest abyss; but now I behold the marvelous light of God. My soul was racked with eternal torment; but I am snatched, and my soul is pained no more.

32 And now it came to pass that Alma began from this time forward to teach the people, and those who were with Alma at the time the angel appeared unto them, traveling round about through all the land, publishing to all the people the things which they had heard and seen, and preaching the word of God in much tribulation, being greatly persecuted by those who were unbelievers, being smitten by many of them.

33 But notwithstanding all this, they did impart much consolation to the church, confirming their faith, and exhorting them with long-suffering and much travail to keep the commandments of God.

[Zathura]

To be born again is something that happens at the beginning of your Gethsemane, and Baptism by Fire occurs near the end of your journey.

Read the talk "ye must be born again" by Elder Bednar.
Pay attention to what he says about the Holy Spirit of Promise, the culminating event in the process of being born again, and his closing remarks.

Of course, if you have a sure knowledge of these things you have no reason to study and seek, but if you don't have a sure knowledge, it's a good idea to read what I said