Modern Application of Matthew 3

[Obrien]

We were reading Matthew 3 the other night as a family. John's words struck me as they never had before. We, the LDS, claim to be of a favored lineage through our adoption into the House of Israel. It seems to me John's priority was baptizing repentant people and preparing them for the doctrine of Christ. He was far less concerned with lineage and status in a church.

How does John's message resonate with us, the average LDS? Do we take solace and comfort in the belief we are the chosen people, or do we bring forth good fruit? Are we wheat or chaff? Will we be baptized by fire, or tormented by it? Weighty topics.

[rewcox]

Being covenant people is scriptural:
1N30: 2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.

It's important to Keep the Commandments

[marc]

Do we take solace and comfort in the belief we are the chosen people, or do we bring forth good fruit? Are we wheat or chaff? Will we be baptized by fire, or tormented by it? Weighty topics.

In ancient times, the process of separating wheat from chaff was manyfold. Sheaves were brought to the threshing floor after the harvest and various means used to beat or grind them. Thereafter, various tools might be used to toss the sheaves into the air to let the wind carry away the chaff while the grains of wheat fell to the floor for collecting. While we are enduring the trials of threshing in our lives, who will be carried away by winds of doctrines and who will endure the beating and threshing and crushing to be collected by Master? Do we shun the fire or do we praise the master silversmith who holds us to the fire as the dross is burned away until he sees his image in us, being the silver? Are we chosen by blood or are we chosen by obedience? Are we grapes plucked from thorns or figs from thistles? Or are we thorns and thistles? Weighty indeed!

[Zathura]

Interesting, The Lord covenants with those that repent and believe in his Son
No mention of having faith in church leaders, but faith in Jesus and repentance.
Truth indeed.

Obrien, clearly "covenant people" Is scriptural. The problem is that Mormons seem to pride themselves as being a Holy people and assume that all Mormons are apart of a covenant with God, and all Mormons are a chosen covenant people, and thus are lifted up in pride. Those who are lifted up in pride and have faith in false traditions need only repent and put their faith in Jesus, and then they truly will become a covenant people through repentance and faith in Jesus
They will then be visited with fire and the Holy Ghost and receive a remission of sins, and will be found on the right hand of God

[rewcox]

This is the covenant we make when we are baptized:

8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;

9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—

10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?

Seems to be people focused to me. The leader, Alma, was spreading the gospel.

[Zathura]

This is the covenant we make when we are baptized:

8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;

9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—

10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?

Seems to be people focused to me. The leader, Alma, was spreading the gospel.

That scripture actually suggests that you are baptized only as a witness of the covenant that you already made with God before that moment and not that you make the covenant at that moment.

I also don't see the point you are trying to make with that scripture

[rewcox]

We covenant with God by being baptized. Baptism is both symbolic by going under the water, then receiving the Holy Ghost. Then we keep the commandments.

God has given us His church to edify each other and provide operations to apply different areas in the church.

If you want to do it by yourself, that is your choice. I enjoy the leaders and the church, because they help bring me closer to God. JS said the Book of Mormon would bring us nearer to God. The scriptures in the BOM are incredible.

[Stacy Oliver]

Interesting, The Lord covenants with those that repent and believe in his Son
No mention of having faith in church leaders, but faith in Jesus and repentance.
Truth indeed.

Obrien, clearly "covenant people" Is scriptural. The problem is that Mormons seem to pride themselves as being a Holy people and assume that all Mormons are apart of a covenant with God, and all Mormons are a chosen covenant people, and thus are lifted up in pride. Those who are lifted up in pride and have faith in false traditions need only repent and put their faith in Jesus, and then they truly will become a covenant people through repentance and faith in Jesus
They will then be visited with fire and the Holy Ghost and receive a remission of sins, and will be found on the right hand of God

In order to be properly baptized, we must be baptized by someone with authority. And how can we know that they have authority unless God tells us (thus giving us a testimony of their divine calling)?

[Zathura]

Interesting, The Lord covenants with those that repent and believe in his Son
No mention of having faith in church leaders, but faith in Jesus and repentance.
Truth indeed.

Obrien, clearly "covenant people" Is scriptural. The problem is that Mormons seem to pride themselves as being a Holy people and assume that all Mormons are apart of a covenant with God, and all Mormons are a chosen covenant people, and thus are lifted up in pride. Those who are lifted up in pride and have faith in false traditions need only repent and put their faith in Jesus, and then they truly will become a covenant people through repentance and faith in Jesus
They will then be visited with fire and the Holy Ghost and receive a remission of sins, and will be found on the right hand of God

In order to be properly baptized, we must be baptized by someone with authority. And how can we know that they have authority unless God tells us (thus giving us a testimony of their divine calling)?

I never said otherwise

[Obrien]

Interesting, The Lord covenants with those that repent and believe in his Son
No mention of having faith in church leaders, but faith in Jesus and repentance.
Truth indeed.

Obrien, clearly "covenant people" Is scriptural. The problem is that Mormons seem to pride themselves as being a Holy people and assume that all Mormons are apart of a covenant with God, and all Mormons are a chosen covenant people, and thus are lifted up in pride. Those who are lifted up in pride and have faith in false traditions need only repent and put their faith in Jesus, and then they truly will become a covenant people through repentance and faith in Jesus
They will then be visited with fire and the Holy Ghost and receive a remission of sins, and will be found on the right hand of God

In order to be properly baptized, we must be baptized by someone with authority. And how can we know that they have authority unless God tells us (thus giving us a testimony of their divine calling)?

Check out verses 12 and 13, to see where he got the authority. Very interesting.

I agree about God telling us a person is authorized to baptize. I will testify that I received confirmation that a certain forum member I had never met is authorized to baptize in Jesus's name. It was NOT a knowledge I was seeking, but it came to me nonetheless.

[Obrien]

Interesting, The Lord covenants with those that repent and believe in his Son
No mention of having faith in church leaders, but faith in Jesus and repentance.
Truth indeed.

Obrien, clearly "covenant people" Is scriptural. The problem is that Mormons seem to pride themselves as being a Holy people and assume that all Mormons are apart of a covenant with God, and all Mormons are a chosen covenant people, and thus are lifted up in pride. Those who are lifted up in pride and have faith in false traditions need only repent and put their faith in Jesus, and then they truly will become a covenant people through repentance and faith in Jesus
They will then be visited with fire and the Holy Ghost and receive a remission of sins, and will be found on the right hand of God

I agree wholeheartedly. One of the clear teachings of Matt 3 is that not all who claim to be chosen are chosen. You must bring forth fruit worthy of acceptance to become one of the chosen covenant people.

[Stacy Oliver]

Interesting, The Lord covenants with those that repent and believe in his Son
No mention of having faith in church leaders, but faith in Jesus and repentance.
Truth indeed.

Obrien, clearly "covenant people" Is scriptural. The problem is that Mormons seem to pride themselves as being a Holy people and assume that all Mormons are apart of a covenant with God, and all Mormons are a chosen covenant people, and thus are lifted up in pride. Those who are lifted up in pride and have faith in false traditions need only repent and put their faith in Jesus, and then they truly will become a covenant people through repentance and faith in Jesus
They will then be visited with fire and the Holy Ghost and receive a remission of sins, and will be found on the right hand of God

In order to be properly baptized, we must be baptized by someone with authority. And how can we know that they have authority unless God tells us (thus giving us a testimony of their divine calling)?

Check out verses 12 and 13, to see where he got the authority. Very interesting.

I agree about God telling us a person is authorized to baptize. I will testify that I received confirmation that a certain forum member I had never met is authorized to baptize in Jesus's name. It was NOT a knowledge I was seeking, but it came to me nonetheless.

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 ¶Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.


?????

[Obrien]

Oops, I was referencing Rewcox' comment above about alma baptizing (in Mosiah 18). My bad, sorry for not being clear.