"Fighting Against The Church"

[Zathura]

...Over the course of the last 15 years I came to the conclusion that not everything done in the church is inspired because of my time spent in meetings and observing. I had lunch today with a friend who is a first counselor in his ward Bishopric and he shared an interesting observation. His ward just changed the RS, YW, and Primary leadership. What he observed and lamented is all they did was change the titles but the people did not change. They all just shuffled to a new calling but still in leadership. My friend expressed regret in not speaking up more about having other people get leadership callings. His words were it is so cliquish. I served in 2 bishoprics and witnessed the same thing. I call it the STP syndrome. Same Ten People shuffle through the leadership. My exposure has left me with questions, not answers.

I've come to believe something I believe relevant to this. Sometimes God calls people to serve, not for the sake of the served but to help the server. To the following congregation, God will not allow the failure of His leaders to destroy His church. In my high council court, some of the members were aghast at what I told them but they showed love and concern in their rebuking. On the other hand, one was insulting, demeaning, and made no effort to hide his revulsion. Still another was so concerned with my eternal soul he decided it was a good place to sleep. With as horrible as I hurt when I felt the GOTHG leave me, I knew their decision was correct. I am slowly coming back, taking my time and doing what I can to do it right.

Perhaps those who made the STP decisions were doing the right thing. Maybe they were being lazy. At some point their service will come back to them. If it's comfort because they knew they did the best, that can strengthen them as they move on. If it's shame because they were not valiant in their service, they'll learn to deal with that. It's important we not allow the imperfections of human frailty of others damn us from moving forward in the gospel. There is always something good saints can do to better God's kingdom.

So you can testify that you lost the Holy Ghost when you were excommunicated?

[skmo]

Whichever makes you feel better.

The fact that my dad baptized me 10 years before I was born of God has nothing to do with whether or not our current leaders are true prophets.

Answers and testimony don't come by logic or blanket answers or genealogy, they come by the power of the Holy Ghost.

You can't argue with my logic, so you just say, "Logic is stupid." Way to go.

Just say you disagree and move on

Why do you posit a position but refuse to consider the logical extension of your own position? Do you just come here to troll?

How about if I offer an outside point which I see as explaining how I see Stahura's point? We baptize people at 8 years old. How many 8 year olds have a personal testimony of God and His restored gospel? if it's over 5% I'll say your data-gathering methodology is off. Jesus said little children were as the Kingdom, but I believe it's because of their purity, innocence, and blind faith. Being truly "born of God" usually takes many more years and much soul searching. I know some people have very mature kids, but take it from a school teacher, many 8 year olds have trouble taking the responsibility of flushing after using the john. Finding the power of God and becoming "Born Again" is a thing beyond most of them.

They're still baptized by the proper authority, but the inner commitment won't usually happen until they get through their rebellious years.

[skmo]

So you can testify that you lost the Holy Ghost when you were excommunicated?

With all of my broken heart. The sense of shame and "aloneness" is overwhelmingly horrible.

[Zathura]

So you can testify that you lost the Holy Ghost when you were excommunicated?

With all of my broken heart. The sense of shame and "aloneness" is overwhelmingly horrible.

Interesting. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

[skmo]

Interesting. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

I appreciate the good thoughts, but I'm not sorry, at least not about that. The situation that brought me to the court was equally horrific, but in a different way. That pain hurt and shamed me because it was a true reflection of what a miserable soul I'd become. It damned near destroyed me. The pain I felt from the court was horrible, but amidst the pain was the tiniest bit of comfort that this was something that would help me grow, when I was able to find healing. I'm slowly changing myself into what I was in the Pre-Earth: Stubborn and unyielding, but this time it's so I can stand firmly against temptation. I've invited it in too often in my life. Bought it drinks and took it home.

Time to grow up.