Not a Mormon Topic - [warning] Mature items in post

[Dash jones]

I decided to put up a warning, even though there really isn't anything worse than other posts discussing this topic...still...I think it is a more adult topic when discussing Same Sex Marriage. IF TLDR...skip to the bottom where I summarize...

Recently there have been posts concerning the LDS changes in their handbook in regards to Same Sex Marriage. It appears a little disturbance of people and a LOT of Media hype has occurred. I imagine that they may have a NEW and bigger target.

Apparently the US Conference of Catholic Bishop's has released some rather interesting items which is bound to upset the LGBT audience.

The bishops approved the strategic priorities for the 2017-2020 planning cycle with 233 votes in favor, 4 against and 0 abstaining. The priorities are:

″ Evangelization: Open wide the doors to Christ through missionary discipleship and personal encounter.

″ Family and marriage: Encourage and heal families; inspire Catholics to embrace the sacrament of matrimony.

″ Human life and dignity: Uphold the sanctity of human life from conception to natural death with special concern for the poor and vulnerable.

″ Vocations and ongoing formation: Encourage vocations to the priesthood and consecrated life, and provide meaningful ongoing formation to clergy, religious and lay ministers.

″ Religious freedom: Promote and defend the freedom to serve, witness and worship, in the U.S. and abroad.

With the Family and Marriage it is towards the husband and wife and not pro-SSM. Just to be clear, they have it on their site that

The following are USCCB news releases related to the protection and promotion of marriage as the permanent and exclusive union of one man and one woman. They are ordered chronologically starting with the most recent.

With the design to protect Religious freedom in the US, it appears as if they see a threat to religious freedom in the face of government mandates.

This is also backed up (if you didn't know it, the Catholic Church is NOT pro-abortion, and in fact against it) this with a statement regarding abortion...

Proposed regulations issued by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) should be revised to make clear that the regulations do not, in violation of federal law, require providing or referring for abortion or compel religious institutions to violate their fundamental convictions on human sexuality, said comments submitted to HHS on November 6. The comments were filed by the General Counsel of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) and nine partners.

"We agree that the prevention of sex discrimination in health programs and activities is a laudable statutory goal. Everyone should have access to health care and health coverage," said the comments. However, they note, the final regulations need to make clear that they do not demand involvement in abortion, force religious institutions to cover objectionable services, or employ definitions of sex discrimination and other terms that exceed federal law. The comments called for an exemption that would, at minimum, "state that the prohibition on sex discrimination shall not apply to a religious organization if such application would not be consistent with the religious tenets of such organization."

And, if that isn't enough, they went a step further than the LDS church in one of their proclamations...they are anti-pornography...strongly...

pastors of the Catholic Church, we offer this statement to give a word of hope and healing to those who have been harmed by pornography and to raise awareness of its pervasiveness and harms.1 In the confessional and in our daily ministry and work with families, we have seen the corrosive damage caused by pornography—children whose innocence is stolen; men and women who feel great guilt and shame for viewing pornography occasionally or habitually; spouses who feel betrayed and traumatized; and men, women and children exploited by the pornography industry. While the production and use of pornography has always been a problem, in recent years its impact has grown exponentially, in large part due to the Internet and mobile technology. Some have even described it as a public health crisis. Everyone, in some way, is affected by increased pornography use in society. We all suffer negative consequences from its distorted view of the human person and sexuality. As bishops, we are called to proclaim anew the abundant mercy and healing of God found in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and through his Church.

The actual document...22 pages worth.

TLDR

In short, I think the Catholic Church in the US has shored up to it's core ideas in the areas of family, abortion, and pornography. SSM, abortion, and Pornography are evil and destructive. I think this paints a BIG bullseye on them by the US media. The huffington Post has already posted an article stating they are out of touch with American Catholics, and even stated they are out of touch with the POPE (I see nothing that the USCCB has stated that is counter to what the Pope has stated to be honest).

It's off topic, but I think it's something to point out that it is not just the Mormons that are trying to bring morals up in the world and hence getting bullseyes painted on them in the US! In some ways, they should ally up (not in beliefs, but as stalwarts trying to create a sense of morality among their faithful).

[dauser]

Catholic leadership disobeys God's first commandment: It is not good for man to be alone and needs a female type help-meet.

Catholic Church leadership is full of people doing wicked things.

Catholics cannot teach with power and authority, it is not in their eyes or in their hearts.

When Catholics hear truth with power and authority...they join Jesus' church.

[Zathura]

Catholic leadership disobeys God's first commandment: It is not good for man to be alone and needs a female type help-meet.

Catholic Church leadership is full of aborted babies, hormonal, single, pedo, homo, porno, self abusing men.

Unless they are fixed, they have but one thing on their minds and it is not scriptural, how can it possibly be otherwise? They have to hide their sins behind pomp, mysticism, incomprehensible glorious triune beings that have no need for spouse and sexual relations.

Catholics cannot teach with power and authority, it is not in their eyes or in their hearts.

When Catholics hear truth with power and authority...they join Jesus' church.

To be fair, I have heard few Mormons teach with true power and authority.

[Fiannan]

Symbols have meanings. I assert that the adoration of the Catholic Church of Jesus hanging on the cross affirms that the state has so much power and authority that it even was able to nail the Son of God to a cross.

Bow down before the one you serve...

[braingrunt]

Um, wow people, chill. Dash Jones, unless he's really reversed courses, (I've been skipping a lot lately) has been very respectful, and he deserves the same treatment.

I appreciate the catholic statements.

[h_p]

Um, wow people, chill. Dash Jones, unless he's really reversed courses, (I've been skipping a lot lately) has been very respectful, and he deserves the same treatment.

I appreciate the catholic statements.

Word.

[gclayjr]

Dash Jones,

While we have differences in our theology, the Catholic Church and the LDS church have often stood shoulder to shoulder defending such principles as Life (against abortion), and traditional family. I hope we continue such teamwork against these forces of evil.



Regards,

George Clay

[AI2.0]

Catholic leadership disobeys God's first commandment: It is not good for man to be alone and needs a female type help-meet.

Catholic Church leadership is full of aborted babies, hormonal, single, pedo, homo, porno, self abusing men.

Unless they are fixed, they have but one thing on their minds and it is not scriptural, how can it possibly be otherwise? They have to hide their sins behind pomp, mysticism, incomprehensible glorious triune beings that have no need for spouse and sexual relations.

Catholics cannot teach with power and authority, it is not in their eyes or in their hearts.

When Catholics hear truth with power and authority...they join Jesus' church.

I wish there was a way to give your post a big THUMBS DOWN, but unfortunately we don't have that option.

From the OP:

It's off topic, but I think it's something to point out that it is not just the Mormons that are trying to bring morals up in the world and hence getting bullseyes painted on them in the US! In some ways, they should ally up (not in beliefs, but as stalwarts trying to create a sense of morality among their faithful).

I believe Good people in many churches will have to set aside their differences to work together. Church leaders need to teach morals and standards, remind the followers of the Commandments and teachings of Jesus and urge their members back to serving God or else the righteous will be overwhelmed by the evil that is gaining a foothold in the Last Days. Satan knows this, he wants to divide religions to keep us from banding together for strength. The post above is a good example of how Satan would like us to think and feel about other faiths; This perception prevents us from being much of a threat to his plans on earth, since we play right into what he wants to achieve.

[Dash jones]

Catholic leadership disobeys God's first commandment: It is not good for man to be alone and needs a female type help-meet.

Catholic Church leadership is full of aborted babies, hormonal, single, pedo, homo, porno, self abusing men.

Unless they are fixed, they have but one thing on their minds and it is not scriptural, how can it possibly be otherwise? They have to hide their sins behind pomp, mysticism, incomprehensible glorious triune beings that have no need for spouse and sexual relations.

Catholics cannot teach with power and authority, it is not in their eyes or in their hearts.

When Catholics hear truth with power and authority...they join Jesus' church.

This is okay, really people.

The Catholic church has had many scandals, and I think part of understanding how to improve the future is understanding the mistakes of the past.

It is true that the Catholic church has different doctrine than many other Christian faiths. It has that celibacy (and marriage to Christ in the Church) is the ultimate form of holiness, as opposed to many other Christian religions. It also feels that if you cannot abide by that, marriage is holy and sanctified and is extremely promoted by the Catholic Church as something to strive for.

I think that the pointing out of the scandals of the church (the most recent being that where there were homosexual men that became preists and were very abusive) is something that the Church is learning from.

I think the current Pope is trying to change the attitude towards one more of love and charity to your fellow man while still keeping strong with the tenets of the New Testament (for example, he has NEVER stated that being homosexual or sinning or divorce or any other manner of sin is good, but that we need to have more love in how we treat people).

It's okay, he didn't say anything I took as personally offensive. I also understand how and why people can be very hurt or offended, or disgruntled towards the church. I'm grateful that he didn't actually get into an anti-Catholicism rhetoric or debate, and I admit what he pointed out has some instances where a Catholic can study the past and learn from it.

On this I wanted to point out that there is a very strong similarity between what the LDS church has recently done, and what the Catholic church has just done recently. It's almost as if in some areas the Catholic Church and the LDS church are in sync on standing firm against the teachings of a fallen world.

I also see the reactions starting to filter through towards these statements by those who are not strong Catholic or those who are of other religions in some regards. In many ways it reminds me of what the comments were towards the LDS church recently as well.

If anything, though I am not Mormon, it makes me respect the LDS church and feel closer to it's members because, though we have different faiths, in some ways we are experiencing the same opposition to our beliefs, and can relate to how the world perceives us when our leaders reiterate trying to reinforce our own morals in a world that is opposed to them.

I think the Catholic church in the US probably will have more hatred of it now because of the statement (rather long too, 22 pages...they are even more long winded then I am!) on pornography and how some people will probably misconstrue it as hatred rather than a document written out of love for the sinner and trying to help them repent and come back to the Lord.

Anyways, I find it in some ways a unifying idea that the LDS and Catholics share.

[Dash jones]

Dash Jones,

While we have differences in our theology, the Catholic Church and the LDS church have often stood shoulder to shoulder defending such principles as Life (against abortion), and traditional family. I hope we continue such teamwork against these forces of evil.



Regards,

George Clay

It's off topic, but I think it's something to point out that it is not just the Mormons that are trying to bring morals up in the world and hence getting bullseyes painted on them in the US! In some ways, they should ally up (not in beliefs, but as stalwarts trying to create a sense of morality among their faithful).

I believe Good people in many churches will have to set aside their differences to work together. Church leaders need to teach morals and standards, remind the followers of the Commandments and teachings of Jesus and urge their members back to serving God or else the righteous will be overwhelmed by the evil that is gaining a foothold in the Last Days. Satan knows this, he wants to divide religions to keep us from banding together for strength. The post above is a good example of how Satan would like us to think and feel about other faiths; This perception prevents us from being much of a threat to his plans on earth, since we play right into what he wants to achieve.

These too are my thoughts. Especially in light of how the world is growing increasingly anti-Christian and anti-religion, I think those who still have a stand on the morals as preached by Christ should see our similarities in our moral struggles and seek solace together in the forces that are allied against all Christianity.

[Thinker]

...In short, I think the Catholic Church in the US has shored up to it's core ideas in the areas of family, abortion, and pornography. SSM, abortion, and Pornography are evil and destructive. I think this paints a BIG bullseye on them by the US media. The huffington Post has already posted an article stating they are out of touch with American Catholics, and even stated they are out of touch with the POPE (I see nothing that the USCCB has stated that is counter to what the Pope has stated to be honest).

It's off topic, but I think it's something to point out that it is not just the Mormons that are trying to bring morals up in the world and hence getting bullseyes painted on them in the US! In some ways, they should ally up (not in beliefs, but as stalwarts trying to create a sense of morality among their faithful).

Thanks for sharing this.
I also appreciate how there are multiple organized efforts to defend basic values - like marriage between a man and a woman. That is the foundation of all societies - the union by which all humanity emerges.

I genuinely respect that there are various VALID ways to connect to God, spiritually, including Catholicism.
Personally, my dream (however unrealistic it is) is that eventually, people will still value traditions, without worshipping them, so they will see all humanity as brothers and sisters of the same basic God and goal - to love better.
I don't want my children to think that only Mormons are acceptable before God, or that any other religion is the only way to go. I want them to embrace the GOoD and truth wherever it's found.

I took my kids to various religious services, including Catholic mass. It wasn't that different from our church, except a lot of kneeling. I even saw many paintings of Jesus, on the walls, that we have in our chapels. There also was a sense of everybody just doing their own thing, similar to our service. Nobody really said hi or "fellowshipped" us, but that was fine, although I sometimes wonder how many people come into our churches for the first time and nobody speaks to them either.

What I love and am curious to learn more about, regarding the Catholic church, is how Mother Mary is considered. I love that she represents feminine divinity, one thing lacking in most monotheistic religions.
I also am curious about how saints are organized - if one represents certain principles (ie: love, war, friendship), like Greek gods.

[skmo]

This is okay, really people.

No, actually, it isn't.

The Catholic church has had many scandals, and I think part of understanding how to improve the future is understanding the mistakes of the past.

But one can disagree without being disagreeable.

I don't remember reading about Jesus calling the Sanhedrin names. Pointing out mistakes? Yes. Boldly? Yes. However, boldly doesn't have to include aggressively rude.

[Dash jones]

...In short, I think the Catholic Church in the US has shored up to it's core ideas in the areas of family, abortion, and pornography. SSM, abortion, and Pornography are evil and destructive. I think this paints a BIG bullseye on them by the US media. The huffington Post has already posted an article stating they are out of touch with American Catholics, and even stated they are out of touch with the POPE (I see nothing that the USCCB has stated that is counter to what the Pope has stated to be honest).

It's off topic, but I think it's something to point out that it is not just the Mormons that are trying to bring morals up in the world and hence getting bullseyes painted on them in the US! In some ways, they should ally up (not in beliefs, but as stalwarts trying to create a sense of morality among their faithful).

Thanks for sharing this.
I also appreciate how there are multiple organized efforts to defend basic values - like marriage between a man and a woman. That is the foundation of all societies - the union by which all humanity emerges.

I genuinely respect that there are various VALID ways to connect to God, spiritually, including Catholicism.
Personally, my dream (however unrealistic it is) is that eventually, people will still value traditions, without worshipping them, so they will see all humanity as brothers and sisters of the same basic God and goal - to love better.
I don't want my children to think that only Mormons are acceptable before God, or that any other religion is the only way to go. I want them to embrace the GOoD and truth wherever it's found.

I took my kids to various religious services, including Catholic mass. It wasn't that different from our church, except a lot of kneeling. I even saw many paintings of Jesus, on the walls, that we have in our chapels. There also was a sense of everybody just doing their own thing, similar to our service. Nobody really said hi or "fellowshipped" us, but that was fine, although I sometimes wonder how many people come into our churches for the first time and nobody speaks to them either.

What I love and am curious to learn more about, regarding the Catholic church, is how Mother Mary is considered. I love that she represents feminine divinity, one thing lacking in most monotheistic religions.
I also am curious about how saints are organized - if one represents certain principles (ie: love, war, friendship), like Greek gods.

Not really like the Greeks. The best way to describe it I think would be to consider the Lord. He has those who are closer and further to him. The closest to him would be his Mother. The Saints are also close to him.

What we ask of them is to intercede on our part. In otherwords, we pray to the Lord, we also ask for the assistance of others. Hopefully they will heed our asking and help on our behalf. Some saints can assist in certain areas, and so you could ask for aid in those areas in regards to them.

We aren't praying to them, we just see them as being closer to the Lord than we are, and maybe they have slightly more pull than those who are further away in their goal of being perfect. I guess that's the mundane way of putting it.

It's sort of like when you ask your priesthood for blessings. It's not that you can't pray for health yourself, but you are seeking someone with more authority and direction in that area. You aren't praying to them like you would the Lord, you are asking them for a blessing and such.

Similar idea, but different as well. I'm not wholly sure how to describe it to someone who hasn't been raised in the faith, as it seems many get the wrong idea (idolatry or other items which are not true, we worship the Lord), but hopefully that gives you the gist of the idea.

[Thinker]

Thanks for sharing this.
I also appreciate how there are multiple organized efforts to defend basic values - like marriage between a man and a woman. That is the foundation of all societies - the union by which all humanity emerges.

I genuinely respect that there are various VALID ways to connect to God, spiritually, including Catholicism.
Personally, my dream (however unrealistic it is) is that eventually, people will still value traditions, without worshipping them, so they will see all humanity as brothers and sisters of the same basic God and goal - to love better.
I don't want my children to think that only Mormons are acceptable before God, or that any other religion is the only way to go. I want them to embrace the GOoD and truth wherever it's found.

I took my kids to various religious services, including Catholic mass. It wasn't that different from our church, except a lot of kneeling. I even saw many paintings of Jesus, on the walls, that we have in our chapels. There also was a sense of everybody just doing their own thing, similar to our service. Nobody really said hi or "fellowshipped" us, but that was fine, although I sometimes wonder how many people come into our churches for the first time and nobody speaks to them either.

What I love and am curious to learn more about, regarding the Catholic church, is how Mother Mary is considered. I love that she represents feminine divinity, one thing lacking in most monotheistic religions.
I also am curious about how saints are organized - if one represents certain principles (ie: love, war, friendship), like Greek gods.

Not really like the Greeks. The best way to describe it I think would be to consider the Lord. He has those who are closer and further to him. The closest to him would be his Mother. The Saints are also close to him.

What we ask of them is to intercede on our part. In otherwords, we pray to the Lord, we also ask for the assistance of others. Hopefully they will heed our asking and help on our behalf. Some saints can assist in certain areas, and so you could ask for aid in those areas in regards to them.

We aren't praying to them, we just see them as being closer to the Lord than we are, and maybe they have slightly more pull than those who are further away in their goal of being perfect. I guess that's the mundane way of putting it.

It's sort of like when you ask your priesthood for blessings. It's not that you can't pray for health yourself, but you are seeking someone with more authority and direction in that area. You aren't praying to them like you would the Lord, you are asking them for a blessing and such.

Similar idea, but different as well. I'm not wholly sure how to describe it to someone who hasn't been raised in the faith, as it seems many get the wrong idea (idolatry or other items which are not true, we worship the Lord), but hopefully that gives you the gist of the idea.

Thanks, that helps clarify.
It seems to me that realistically, if we're truly honest, we'll realize as Socrates and Moses did, that we know nothing!
Of course, ideally, we exercise faith that we can and will learn more and progress.
Still, my idea of even God, is likely very personified - made after man's own image, rather than what/who God really is.
We have this idea that there is ONE God - a unifying, multi-universally infinite Consciousness/Energy/Love, yet the symbols we imagine are probably way far from who/what God is. So, it makes sense that we imagine people like Jesus, or Mary, or even Saints (ie lds prophets) who are more personable and easier to relate to.
Yet, I do think we all need to be careful to not get stuck on focusing on someone (or ideals) lower than the highest GOoD - God.
In a way, it seems Catholics are more honest about this - at least in theory, because they realize they need personified ideas of spirituality to spiritually resonate. I've never heard of an Mormon lighting candles for religious leaders, but in practice many deify their religious leaders, because they're taught to never find fault with them, considering them to be infallible. In a way, deifying people who have died may be a step above deifying living people - because then, you can incorporate the spirit world (or heaven that they passed on to) and make them more into icons, rather than just human beings like you and I.

Just sorting thoughts - especially about how spiritual energy is organized. I tend to believe that when people worship people - they are organized spirits - often a mix of mostly good, but with some bad (ungodly aspects). And I think that everybody - whether they're religious or not - does this. Most obviously is like spirits in politics, or sport events.