Can scout leaders at church be LGBT?

[butterfly]

Does anyone know if a LDS member in good standing, who is homosexual but not breaking the law of chastity, can be a scout leader at church?

I ask because the official wording is vague “As a chartering organization, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has always had the right to select Scout leaders who adhere to moral and religious principles that are consistent with our doctrines and beliefs. Any resolution adopted by the Boy Scouts of America regarding leadership in Scouting must continue to affirm that right.” This from http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/c ... -standards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above statement does not actually say whether the church will allow LGBT scout leaders. Some think this ambiguity is causing people to refuse to donate to Friends of Scouting in Utah, which is going to force some employees to be laid off due to lack of $$.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone know if the church will allow LGBT scout leaders?

[Dash jones]

I think they've said they won't, but I think the overall situation probably will rely on what their Bishop feels.

[rewcox]

They could, would depend on ward needs and resources. I've never known any scout masters who were not married but I have been in more established areas.

[h_p]

Even a "T"?

[gkearney]

While in practice is seem not very likely, the policies of both the BSA and the Chruch would permit such a person serving as a scout leader. I have known of several single men and women who did serve as scout leaders in the Church. Of course I have no way to know of their sexual orentation.

[Col. Flagg]

Can someone help me understand how it’s OK for the church to affiliate with the BSA which now supports homosexual men and boys while innocent little children living with same sex couples are forbidden from blessing and membership? :-\ I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

[Fiannan]

Can someone help me understand how it’s OK for the church to affiliate with the BSA which now supports homosexual men and boys while innocent little children living with same sex couples are forbidden from blessing and membership? :-\ I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

Perfectly understandable - both policies probably had their origins in the legal department. Explains it all.

[zionminded]

Can someone help me understand how it’s OK for the church to affiliate with the BSA which now supports homosexual men and boys while innocent little children living with same sex couples are forbidden from blessing and membership? :-\ I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

I think the church policy is best described this way:

Being "gay" isn't the problem. Being "gay" and married and having gay sex is! With the BSA, the church will decide who they put in those callings, outside of it, its up to the BSA in non-LDS units to do what they want. LDS units will have a standard that is more congruent with other policies.

I will say I agree on politics are going on... there are a lot of moving parts.

[davedan]

Scouts and scout leaders make an oath to be "morally straight"

Why would a LGBT wish to make such an oath?

[BTH&T]

Does anyone know if a LDS member in good standing, who is homosexual but not breaking the law of chastity, can be a scout leader at church? I ask because the official wording is vague ..... The above statement does not actually say whether the church will allow LGBT scout leaders.
Anyone know if the church will allow LGBT scout leaders?

I see no ambiguity nor is the Church vague. Those that are living outside the commandments are excluded from the callings.
If one is sinning homosexuality, committing adultery, a poor example to youth. There is no calling made.

The ambiguity is if one has same sex attraction and is in good standing. To me (IMO) this is where there would be some hesitation to make a call to serve in the scouting program.

[butterfly]

I see no ambiguity nor is the Church vague. Those that are living outside the commandments are excluded from the callings.
If one is sinning homosexuality, committing adultery, a poor example to youth. There is no calling made.

The ambiguity is if one has same sex attraction and is in good standing. To me (IMO) this is where there would be some hesitation to make a call to serve in the scouting program.

Is there any truth to the idea that people who are LGBT are more likely to be sexual predators/ an endangerment to youth or kids? I just wonder because, to me, logically, I always thought that if one is confused about their own sexuality, then having them in callings around kids may not be the best idea.
Is this wrong of me to think this way? Should there by any concern for having LGBT in positions of influence for kids?
I think about how the Savior said that if a man lusts after a woman, then he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Is being LGBT the same thing? Or do LGBT truly love the people they are attracted to with Christ-like charity and lust has nothing to do with it?
Is "attraction" to the same sex a form of love or lust?

[BTH&T]

Is there any truth to the idea that people who are LGBT are more likely to be sexual predators/ an endangerment to youth or kids?
I just wonder because, to me, logically, I always thought that if one is confused about their own sexuality, then having them in callings around kids may not be the best idea.
Is this wrong of me to think this way?
Should there by any concern for having LGBT in positions of influence for kids?
I think about how the Savior said that if a man lusts after a woman, then he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Is being LGBT the same thing? Or do LGBT truly love the people they are attracted to with Christ-like charity and lust has nothing to do with it?
Is "attraction" to the same sex a form of love or lust?

The answer is in "The Family: A Proclamation to the World"
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The purpose of life is to be a family. It is the only way we are born, and if we do as we are supposed too, the way we live in Eternity.
LGBT is simply put, against God's purpose and creation. No other way to look at it.
Worrying about details of the practice really are inconsequential, God only provided one way.
With that said, we must show true love and charity to all. Love the person, not the way of life.

[Dash jones]

I see no ambiguity nor is the Church vague. Those that are living outside the commandments are excluded from the callings.
If one is sinning homosexuality, committing adultery, a poor example to youth. There is no calling made.

The ambiguity is if one has same sex attraction and is in good standing. To me (IMO) this is where there would be some hesitation to make a call to serve in the scouting program.

Is there any truth to the idea that people who are LGBT are more likely to be sexual predators/ an endangerment to youth or kids? I just wonder because, to me, logically, I always thought that if one is confused about their own sexuality, then having them in callings around kids may not be the best idea.
Is this wrong of me to think this way? Should there by any concern for having LGBT in positions of influence for kids?
I think about how the Savior said that if a man lusts after a woman, then he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Is being LGBT the same thing? Or do LGBT truly love the people they are attracted to with Christ-like charity and lust has nothing to do with it?
Is "attraction" to the same sex a form of love or lust?

Well, the LGBT movement says NO, there isn't.

The statistics of the catastrophe of the Homosexuals who were Catholic Priests would indicate that there is a correlation. It is a scandal that still haunts and affects the Catholic church. That of course is direct evidence that goes contrary to what society wants us to believe these days, but it is pretty scandalous evidence which has had a very adverse affect on the Catholic church and how things operate in some instances.

[skmo]

Scouts and scout leaders make an oath to be "morally straight"

Why would a LGBT wish to make such an oath?

Because some, if not most, honestly believe they are being moral. A member who has a testimony of the gospel but has same sex attraction yet lives a celibate life is, indeed, being moral. In that situation they are certainly being more moral than I have been, and I've received my Endowments and hold the Melchizedek Priesthood.

For someone not in our faith, they may be in a religion that teaches monogamous homosexual activity is moral and proper. They don't share our belief, but by their own they're being moral.

Nevertheless, I believe that in theory, a person with SSA who was being celibate would be technically able to serve as a scout leader, I can't see a situation where the members of the congregation wouldn't cry at the top of their lungs if a bishop tried calling such a person to that position. In some places, I'd say it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see members becoming openly hostile, extremely belligerent, and possibly more. This is still about the most taboo sin possible in the minds of most members.

[zionminded]

I see no ambiguity nor is the Church vague. Those that are living outside the commandments are excluded from the callings.
If one is sinning homosexuality, committing adultery, a poor example to youth. There is no calling made.

The ambiguity is if one has same sex attraction and is in good standing. To me (IMO) this is where there would be some hesitation to make a call to serve in the scouting program.

Is there any truth to the idea that people who are LGBT are more likely to be sexual predators/ an endangerment to youth or kids? I just wonder because, to me, logically, I always thought that if one is confused about their own sexuality, then having them in callings around kids may not be the best idea.
Is this wrong of me to think this way? Should there by any concern for having LGBT in positions of influence for kids?
I think about how the Savior said that if a man lusts after a woman, then he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Is being LGBT the same thing? Or do LGBT truly love the people they are attracted to with Christ-like charity and lust has nothing to do with it?
Is "attraction" to the same sex a form of love or lust?

No there isn't, not really. The church and I think scouting outside the church has standards for leaders. You don't have boys sleep with men for example. Do we say that hetrosexual men are immune to this rule? No way! Sexual orientation is not an indicator of abuse, the rules apply to anybody. There are also gay scoutmasters already in the world... just not really in the church.

[h_p]

Nevertheless, I believe that in theory, a person with SSA who was being celibate would be technically able to serve as a scout leader, I can't see a situation where the members of the congregation wouldn't cry at the top of their lungs if a bishop tried calling such a person to that position. In some places, I'd say it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see members becoming openly hostile, extremely belligerent, and possibly more. This is still about the most taboo sin possible in the minds of most members.

I wonder what the reaction would be if two unmarried men were the adult leaders for girls camp.

[gkearney]

Setting aside the philosophical points of this thread let's look at the scouting/church policy in all of this. I am a trained scout leader in three national scouting programs: The Boy Scouts of America, Scouts Canada and Scouts Australia. I have beed a scout leader for over 25 years at one time or another in all three programs. I have been a scout leader in both LDS and community based programs in all three nations. So I think I understand scouting fairly well across a wide range of programs.

Two of these national programs Scouts Canada and Scouts Australia are, by and large, coed programs from the youngest age (Beavers and Joeys) upwards to young adult programs (Rovers). The BSA can be coed in two programs (Ventures and Sea Scouts) and is coed at all ages in one program (STEM Scouts).

As a heterosexual man I have been a scout leader in groups made up of both boys and girls. Yet it was never suggested that it was in some way inappropriate for me to be a scout leader of a scout group that had girls and young women in it. I would find it insulting to suggest that I would be unable to control myself around these girls or that I somehow posed a danger to them.

Every national scouting program of which I am aware, and being involved n international scouting that is quite a few, have strict rules governing matters such as camping. These rule include never having adults and scout sleeping in the same tent, never being alone with a scout as an adult, strict separation of campsites between boys and girls, strict separation of the overnight accommodations between adults and scouts (In Australia this is known as the 3 meter rule) and in Scout Canada and Scouts Australia at least a requirement that there be an adult awake overnight. Why the BSA does not require this last point is a mystery to me.

Following these rules and having trained leaders is the best way to insure the safety of the scouts under our care. Without fail when we hear of incidents involving inappropriate behaviour of a scout leader it can be traced back to the rules not be adhered to and to untrained leaders, that last point being a particular problem in LDS scout troops I might add.

Provided a leader is trained, is never alone with scouts as the rules dictate and the scouts themselves have also been given the required safety classes (again something that LDS scout troops seem to be remiss in doing in my experience) then a gay scout leader who is upholding the scout oath and law, even one who might be sexually active outside of scouting, poses no more danger than did I as a sexually active (married) heterosexual man did to the scouts, some of them girls, under my care.

[Fiannan]

Is there any truth to the idea that people who are LGBT are more likely to be sexual predators/ an endangerment to youth or kids?
I just wonder because, to me, logically, I always thought that if one is confused about their own sexuality, then having them in callings around kids may not be the best idea.
Is this wrong of me to think this way?
Should there by any concern for having LGBT in positions of influence for kids?
I think about how the Savior said that if a man lusts after a woman, then he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Is being LGBT the same thing? Or do LGBT truly love the people they are attracted to with Christ-like charity and lust has nothing to do with it?
Is "attraction" to the same sex a form of love or lust?

The answer is in "The Family: A Proclamation to the World"
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The purpose of life is to be a family. It is the only way we are born, and if we do as we are supposed too, the way we live in Eternity.
LGBT is simply put, against God's purpose and creation. No other way to look at it.
Worrying about details of the practice really are inconsequential, God only provided one way.
With that said, we must show true love and charity to all. Love the person, not the way of life.

Celibate gay man gets to be scout leader. His sister and her husband die in a car accident leaving their four young children without parents but his sister had provided in her will that if anything happened to her then her brother would get custody of the kids.

So he can indeed be a scoutmaster, but he can not submit his nieces and nephew's names for baptism because their legal parent is a gay man.

Seems fair.

[Fiannan]

Nevertheless, I believe that in theory, a person with SSA who was being celibate would be technically able to serve as a scout leader, I can't see a situation where the members of the congregation wouldn't cry at the top of their lungs if a bishop tried calling such a person to that position. In some places, I'd say it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see members becoming openly hostile, extremely belligerent, and possibly more. This is still about the most taboo sin possible in the minds of most members.

I wonder what the reaction would be if two unmarried men were the adult leaders for girls camp.

In my son's high school school male teachers often took groups of girls to other cities for competitions. Are hotel rooms any more private than tents?

[h_p]

Celibate gay man gets to be scout leader. His sister and her husband die in a car accident leaving their four young children without parents but his sister had provided in her will that if anything happened to her then her brother would get custody of the kids.

So he can indeed be a scoutmaster, but he can not submit his nieces and nephew's names for baptism because their legal parent is a gay man.

Seems fair.

If he's celibate, he actually can have the children baptized. Only if he's in a homosexual relationship does the restriction apply.

[carbon dioxide]

I am sure a gay or bisexual can be a scout leader if they are celibate. The lesbian can not be since that would be a woman and an transgender? Probably not.

[JohnnyL]

They would likely not be called. The church has already lost lots of money in legal suits with homosexual scout leader abuse.

Single men likely won't be called as scout leaders (like never-married single men most likely won't be called as high priests), though here's a call-out for exceptions you might know of. (I never had one, and at scout camp I learned some lessons as to partially why).

[gkearney]

They would likely not be called. The church has already lost lots of money in legal suits with homosexual scout leader abuse.

Single men likely won't be called as scout leaders (like never-married single men most likely won't be called as high priests), though here's a call-out for exceptions you might know of. (I never had one, and at scout camp I learned some lessons as to partially why).

As a scout leader I have encountered both single men as scout leaders and even, all be it very, very rare, women. These cases generally are found in very small branches with very limited number of members. However I know of one woman serving as a scout leader for the 11 year old scouts in a ward in Maine now. So while it is very rare it is not unheard of.

[skmo]

However I know of one woman serving as a scout leader for the 11 year old scouts in a ward in Maine now. So while it is very rare it is not unheard of.

My mom was the Blazer Scout leader for several years. Most all went out of our platoon into the larger troop as First Class, with only Life and Eagle left to go. When she passed away, there was a LONNGGG list of guys who said they'd be honored to be a pall bearer, there were 3 former scouts who were.

[skmo]

Celibate gay man gets to be scout leader. His sister and her husband die in a car accident leaving their four young children without parents but his sister had provided in her will that if anything happened to her then her brother would get custody of the kids.

So he can indeed be a scoutmaster, but he can not submit his nieces and nephew's names for baptism because their legal parent is a gay man.

Seems fair.

If he's celibate, he actually can have the children baptized. Only if he's in a homosexual relationship does the restriction apply.

If he's homosexual and in a relationship he can have them baptized. If he's homosexual and married to some other hairy dude, then he can't.

Honestly, two ugly, hairy dudes married? It's enough to make the Pope puke.