Utah joins to resist taking in refugees.

[lundbaek]

I certainly agree with the grievances itemized by GeeR and I'm appreciative that he reminded us of them. The only reason I can offer, and that from a position of relative ignorance of what goes on at 50 East North Temple St., is that the Church has been trying harder in recent years to create good will and avoid actions that would likely give rise to retribution against the Church by government and latter-day gadiantons that would hinder the Church's religious mission. I don't like any of the things GeeR brought to our attention, but I have to accept that it's the Prophet's responsibility, not mine.

[a_member]

I am glad that the title of this thread turned out not to be true. I'd gladly house as many refugees as could sanely fit in my space, without a second's hesitation. I've attended Sunni and Shia mosques in various places, both in the US and abroad, and the experience has always been uplifting. Bravo, Utah, for doing something right in this very terrible situation.

[Robin Hood]

Post from the 1830's
I sure hope the state leadership doesn't go all "wobbly" on us. Missouri has opened it's arms to Mormon immigrants for some time now and all they get is grief. These immigrants do not assimilate well. They cling to their religion of intolerance and eventually lash out at their hosts. I know there are exceptions, but can we afford the risks?

[Elizabeth]

Why discriminate?
There would be many needy non Islamic people in your own country who would gladly accept your hospitality.

... I'd gladly house as many refugees as could sanely fit in my space, without a second's hesitation...

[lundbaek]

Try to learn from the experiences of European countries that have been taking in Arab refugees for years now. I doubt Americans generally can cope with such situations any better than Europeans.

Try to learn the real reasons behind this increasing migration. Try to learn the real reasons why certain elements in America, including Barack Obama, are so anxious to bring Arabs into America.

Does anybody else see this as a Trojan Horse ?

[Lizzy60]

Try to learn from the experiences of European countries that have been taking in Arab refugees for years now. I doubt Americans generally can cope with such situations any better than Europeans.

Try to learn the real reasons behind this increasing migration. Try to learn the real reasons why certain elements in America, including Barack Obama, are so anxious to bring Arabs into America.

Does anybody else see this as a Trojan Horse ?

Obama is keeping his campaign promise to fundamentally transform America.

[Robin Hood]

Does anybody else see this as a Trojan Horse ?

No.

Remember, it's the US and it's allies in Syria (French, "Free" Syrian Army, and ISIS) who are creating this crisis in the first place. If the US doesn't want refugees, the US needs to stop creating them.
We (the UK) are involved as well by bombing ISIS in Iraq. We're all up to our necks in it.

[lundbaek]

Lizzy, what do you believe Obama is trying to transform America into ?

I'm glad there is some recognition that the US government is responsible for creating ISIS.

[Lizzy60]

One of Obama's goals (and the powers-that-be behind the scenes) is to sideline, and ultimately destroy Christianity. This started long ago with things like prohibiting prayer in schools, but it is now fully out in the open. There are numerous quotes by Obama that deride Christianity and Christians, and support Islam.

Yeah, I'm preaching to the choir, but when I have said things along this line to very active LDS, including my own family, I have been called a fanatic, conspiracist, and delusional. I have even been told that if the above statement were true, we would be hearing warnings in General Conference, or that a statement would be sent to Stake Presidents in the USA, and until that warning comes from the TOP 15, I shouldn't be saying what I am saying, as it puts me on the road to apostasy. There is a deeply ingrained desire in members, I have found, to believe all is well.

[lundbaek]

Firmly entrenched in the US FedGov are globalists anxious to create conditions that will cause/force Americans to accept subservience to the socialist world government they are maneuvering us into. The plan is to induce the gradual surrender of American sovereignty piece by piece and step by step to various international organizations, of which the United Nations has been and is the outstanding example. The mass migration of Arabs and Latin Americans into the United States is, I believe, calculated to contribute substantially to the bankrupting of America by way of greatly increased government spending, and altering of our voting demographics. Both of these will be aided by the current mass migration into America.

I understand that UT Governor Herbert has extended a welcome to Arab refugees, and that there is already a large Muslim community in SLC and an even larger one in southern UT.

Any other thoughts on what Obama & Co. is trying to transform America into ?

[Joel]

Maybe concerned Utahans can show an appropriate response like some people in Texas do :YMDAYDREAM: **== :

Armed protesters stalk peaceful Muslims at Texas mosque: We want to show force





A group of armed protesters who wanted to “show force” gathered outside a Texas mosque Saturday in response to rumors about Syrian refugees and Sharia law.

The group, calling itself the Bureau of American Islamic Relations, stationed itself outside the Islamic Center of Irving carrying signs with messages like, “Stop the Islamization of America,” according to the Dallas Morning News. A video taken at the mosque shows a man dressed in black with his face masked carrying a rifle.

The group’s leader told the News they were upset because they had heard rumors of a Sharia court at the mosque and the prospect of letting Syrian refugees in. They also claimed members of the local Muslim community had made death threats against Irving’s mayor, Beth Van Duyne, earlier this year. The News found no evidence that this claim was true.

When asked by the News why his group was armed, organizer David Wright said the weapons were “mostly for self protection,” but then added, “But I’m not going to lie. We do want to show force. We’re not sitting ducks.”

He then added,“We don’t want people to think we’re out to kill people or shoot people. It would be ridiculous to protest Islam without defending ourselves.”

The town of Irving gained notoriety earlier this year when police arrested a Muslim school boy who had made a clock at home and brought it to school, accusing him of making a “hoax bomb.”

Van Duyne made a name for herself by fighting against a non-existent threat that Muslims were bringing Sharia law to Irving.

“Recently, there have been rumors suggesting that the City of Irving has somehow condoned, approved or enacted the implementation of a Sharia Law Court in our City. Let me be clear, neither the City of Irving, our elected officials or city staff have anything to do with the decision of the mosque that has been identified as starting a Sharia Court,” Van Duyne had written in a Facebook post that was publicized by Fox News and Glenn Beck.

The News reports that police were present and worshippers were instructed by mosque leaders not to interact with the group.

A video of the armed group was posted to Twitter, as seen here:

Armed Demonstration in front of the Islamic Center of Irving focused on stopping “Islamization of America” pic.twitter.com/iRQI4eqPjO

— Zahid Arab (@ZahidArabFox4) November 21, 2015

[GeeR]

I certainly agree with the grievances itemized by GeeR and I'm appreciative that he reminded us of them. The only reason I can offer, and that from a position of relative ignorance of what goes on at 50 East North Temple St.

There is an interesting video on youtube that I haven’t particularly put a lot of stock in, in fact I’ve pretty much ignored it for some time now because of the source of the information. I don’t know much about the Kraut family only what I’ve heard but the other day I accidently ran across this story again by Kevin Kraut and it really hit home for me. I think he has nailed for us an “awful situation” members better “awake” to concerning the danger our general authorities are facing—Gadiantons tares embedded within the church intimidating and strong-arming the prophet and 12, that if they don’t go along to get along with the Gadianton powers that be, there will be retribution heaped upon their heads in the form of shutting down the missionary program and temple building effort. I also think that these hidden tares in the church is the reason Steven Jones and Randy Bott was shown the exit doors out of B.Y.U. Was the story concerning Russell Nelson getting slapped around and punched in the stomach, by hired thugs, while in some stake presidents home somewhere in the world a warning to the brethren back in SLC that they can expect the same treatment if they don’t play along? Does this explain why Pres. Monson voted for gay scouts into Boy Scouts of America that he inevitably knew would lead to gay leaders entering the program a few years later?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvSYj2pE7NI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mv1qvmYH-w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fiannan]

One of Obama's goals (and the powers-that-be behind the scenes) is to sideline, and ultimately destroy Christianity. This started long ago with things like prohibiting prayer in schools, but it is now fully out in the open. There are numerous quotes by Obama that deride Christianity and Christians, and support Islam.

Yeah, I'm preaching to the choir, but when I have said things along this line to very active LDS, including my own family, I have been called a fanatic, conspiracist, and delusional. I have even been told that if the above statement were true, we would be hearing warnings in General Conference, or that a statement would be sent to Stake Presidents in the USA, and until that warning comes from the TOP 15, I shouldn't be saying what I am saying, as it puts me on the road to apostasy. There is a deeply ingrained desire in members, I have found, to believe all is well.

You are correct in your analysis and there is much, much more than you have covered that is pat of the long-range plan.

[Army Of Truth]

One of Obama's goals (and the powers-that-be behind the scenes) is to sideline, and ultimately destroy Christianity. This started long ago with things like prohibiting prayer in schools, but it is now fully out in the open. There are numerous quotes by Obama that deride Christianity and Christians, and support Islam.

Yeah, I'm preaching to the choir, but when I have said things along this line to very active LDS, including my own family, I have been called a fanatic, conspiracist, and delusional. I have even been told that if the above statement were true, we would be hearing warnings in General Conference, or that a statement would be sent to Stake Presidents in the USA, and until that warning comes from the TOP 15, I shouldn't be saying what I am saying, as it puts me on the road to apostasy. There is a deeply ingrained desire in members, I have found, to believe all is well.

:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause:

+1 and Amen!! I've found the exact same thing with my own family and my own ward. They keep telling me "why do you even worry about that stuff. If it was an issue, it would be brought up in Gen Conf, etc, etc." Then I reply that it actually has been talked about in General Conference decades ago but nobody would listen. Hence the sad "awful situation" we are already neck deep in. X(

[Fiannan]

With the downing of a Russian plane by Turkey...and the fact that the Russians are fighting ISIS...and the neo-cons in the US government would love to see WW3 start...

[Fiannan]

If it was an issue, it would be brought up in Gen Conf, etc, etc."

We have no idea how much power the US government has over what is allowed to be said in General Conference. Remember that.

[Lizzy60]

With the downing of a Russian plane by Turkey...and the fact that the Russians are fighting ISIS...and the neo-cons in the US government would love to see WW3 start...

Turkey just doubled down by shooting down a helicopter that Russia sent to rescue one of the pilots who was injured ejecting from the plane they shot down.

[Fiannan]

With the downing of a Russian plane by Turkey...and the fact that the Russians are fighting ISIS...and the neo-cons in the US government would love to see WW3 start...

Turkey just doubled down by shooting down a helicopter that Russia sent to rescue one of the pilots who was injured ejecting from the plane they shot down.

Really? Weird..but then again the location of Gog and Magog is central Turkey. Remember that Biblical scholars who try to claim it is in Russia.

[lundbaek]

We Latter-day Saints have been commanded and are still under the commandment given us by the Lord thru Moroni to "awake to a sense of [our] awful situation", unless the Book of Mormon has been revised to exclude that commandment since August 2010 when President Packer reminded us to that commandment in the August Ensign magazine. So much for any criticism for being concerned about "that stuff". And I get the same hogwash for talking about things that other members don't want to hear. I simply reply as politely as I can: "I calls 'em as I sees 'em with no apologies."

[Robin Hood]

With the downing of a Russian plane by Turkey...and the fact that the Russians are fighting ISIS...and the neo-cons in the US government would love to see WW3 start...

Turkey just doubled down by shooting down a helicopter that Russia sent to rescue one of the pilots who was injured ejecting from the plane they shot down.

No they haven't.
Where did you get this false story?

[Fiannan]

Can someone sum up what the 10 most important issues facing us today if we believe what is emphasized in GC reflects the most crucial issues today?

[Lizzy60]

Robin Hood ----

Drudge linked to a story in the Mirror. I heard on the radio that it was Turkey, the Mirror says
Syrian rebels in Turkey.

[Thomas]

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

[Fiannan]

Robin Hood ----

Drudge linked to a story in the Mirror. I heard on the radio that it was Turkey, the Mirror says
Syrian rebels in Turkey.

They shot the pilots dead as they were descending in their parachutes. Note, the USA supports this group. Here is the video of them mocking the young dead Russian pilot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHd7dZJTFCY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

May as well share it with friends...their tax dollars helped pay for these groups.

[Robin Hood]

Robin Hood ----

Drudge linked to a story in the Mirror. I heard on the radio that it was Turkey, the Mirror says
Syrian rebels in Turkey.

That sounds more plausible.
The Russian pilots certainly landed in hostile territory, ie. the territory they had just been bombing.

From what I've heard so far, it appears the Turks were technically correct in claiming the Russian plane crossed into Turkish airspace, but I think it was only briefly. I suspect the Turks were just looking for an opportunity, however brief, to do this. The people the Russians are bombing in Syria are ethnic Turks and have close ties to Turkey.

That said, the Russians were rather stupid for giving them the opportunity.