UnChrist-Like Accusations

[Vision]

The context is that Moroni was inspired to include the Abinadi story in the abridgment for some reason. Could that reason be a warning men can lead people astray? Tie this with the warnings recorded in 2nd nephi 28 about trusting in the arm of flesh. Add in 1st Kings 13 where a prophet of god led another prophet of god astray. Finally Mormon warns that every church is corrupted in Mormon 8:36.

This is the difference. Some folks say every church is corrupted. They use this to say the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is corrupted.

The reality is some of the members of the church have veered.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Christ's church, complete with His apostles and prophets.

Don't trust in your own arm of flesh.

I'm trusting in the holy ghost that witnessed to me the truthfulness of the scriptures I referenced

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. This puts you at odds with the church and leadership.

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

[Finrock]

I have had a tendency in the past to either look past or agree with what others are saying because I believed this person was a "liberal" or they were "conservative" or they were "anti-" or they were...

The point being that it is easy to brush off what someone is saying when you only see them as a label or as falling in to some category. Its like when we see a person who is drunk, we might say in our hearts, that person is just a "drunk". If we were to do that then we would be making in error in our thinking. The person, no matter what, is not just a "drunk". Before anything else they are a son or daughter of God and this demands our respect and our honor. We should never treat others with anything other than loving kindness, respect, and honor.

I am a sensitive person when it comes to fairness. I hate being unfair and I hate witnessing unfair things. I have a hard time not reacting when I perceive someone being unfair, unreasonable, or just plain mean spirited. Special pleading happens a lot and it is hard for me to understand. People will special plead when they are loyal to something or someone other than Jesus Christ.

Intellectual honesty is a Christ-like attribute. Mormons ought to be the examples of this atrribute in the world. It so easy to paste a label on someone and pretending that this justifies one from honestly and sincerely considering the words of another person or to esteem them as an enemy. That is really what it comes down to. Once you place a label you create an enemy. A them. And now one feels justified in being unfair, unkind, unChrist-like, because they are defending against an "enemy". This is just a trick though by Satan. The truth is that we should love all, even our enemies, whether real or perceived.

Reason, fairness, kindness, etc. should be the natural disposition of all Latter-day Saints. It seems like Mormons should be especially sensitive to avoid persecutions and accusations and the belittling of another's testimony or witness.

-Finrock

Well put! Would you have a problem with me reporting this elsewhere on the internet?

Thanks Jezebel. To answer your question, no, I suppose I do not mind.

-Finrock

[AI2.0]

AI2.0,

I am an active, faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am a Mormon. I made no "statements about members of the LDS church which were not true." I just shared with you and all who read my testimony.

Because of the accusations you have made against me it is important for you to recognize that I am faithful, loyal, active, tithe paying, temple recommend holder/attending, who serves in my current calling and all of my callings, never turned down a calling, always trying my best. I love the Church. I am not your enemy. You do not need to become defensive and try to tear down my testimony. I am on your side and on the side of the Church. The Church taught me to live by the Spirit. The Church taught me that the Spirit matters most. The Church taught me that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same as the Church. The Church taught me to look to Christ and non-else. The Church is the one who taught me that it is just a vehicle to bring me to Christ. I am finally starting to do what the Church has asked me to do and it is confusing to me to be labelled as someone who is against the Church.

I have been saved by Jesus Christ and all can be saved and be born again. This is good news and I share this freely and lovingly and sincerely.

-Finrock

Finrock, I'm very happy to hear that you believe in the church, that's wonderful.

I stated that I agreed with most of your post, you bore a powerful testimony of the atonement, However, you included a couple of statements I disagreed with:

1. I know that the Church is not Christ and neither are any of the men and women, our brothers and sisters in the Church, none of them are Christ.

2. I testify that no prophet or apostle can save you.

I took issue because it sounded like you were claiming that LDS members think the church is Christ and that members are christ. You also implied that LDS believe a prophet or apostle can save them and I believe you've been around here long enough to know that posters DO accuse members of this. While I believe we have Prophets and Apostles to teach and guide us, I do not believe they save us--salvation comes only through the Savior and while I sustain the priesthood leaders who serve over me, I do not believe they are Christ, and I'd be offended if someone suggested I did.

My comments were in response to these statements. Now, if I misread your meaning, I apologize.

[AI2.0]

Take note, I'm not rejecting the church. I'm not saying anything about the church is false.I know you don't reject the church, and I agree with you, I didn't think that we were being contentious, I thought we were just discussing.

I'm saying that it's a problem if you emphasize the church too much.

I don't agree that the church gives me everything. Having this perspective gives the church credit that it doesn't deserve. God gave us everything. The Church is one of the things God gave us. Everything that is done within the church, was given to us by God, not the church.The church is the vehicle which God has set up for us to return to him--at least, if a person is LDS, that is what we believe. Maybe other religions allow for people to believe they can be close to God without a church organization, but I contend that within Mormonism, there is not a provision for this. There is no room for a casual believer, because as Joseph Smith Jr. said, a religion that does not require sacrifice(and this often comes within the church organization), does not have the power to save (paraphrased). As King Benjamin preached, God gives us everything, no question. But, there are some things that we enjoy that came through the church organization and if one rejects the church, they are rejecting the foundation on which the things they like were built. Those who do this, such as Denver Snuffer, are guilty of rejecting the 'cornerstone'--it becomes a 'stumbling block' to them, because they no longer believe in it, but yet, they wish to keep much of what they learned from that 'cornerstone'. Going back to my analogy of the 'feast', they want to pick and choose to keep some dishes, yet ignore the fact that they believe the 'feast', as a whole, is poisoned.

It's a tiny detail, but I think that the perspective matters. The church is still an earthly organization, and I think it's problematic to start giving credit to an earthly organization instead of God.I think it is important to note that the powers of darkness will attack the 'earthly organization' and Satan will influence people to leave the church--he already is. That is why we must be ever vigilant of his influence to take us away from truth. Church leaders are human and flawed, but if we dwell on their faults, we most likely won't remain in the church and that would be a tragedy, IMO.

Having the perspective that it's all from God, he blesses us, causes us to praise him and give him all glory.
Having the perspective that the Church gives us everything, causes us to praise the church and church leaders, and then God.

We should give credit where credit is due. Joseph Smith Jr. organized the church and set it up, as he was inspired to do so, by Heavenly Father. We have the Priesthood blessings and ordinances, we have the Temple rites, we have the organization to help 'perfect' us and keep us with our goal in sight--service, teachers, etc.--to become like the Savior and keep his commandments that we might return to live with him.

[rewcox]

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

Sure, when it is at odds with the church and leaders.

[Lizzy60]

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

Sure, when it is at odds with the church and leaders.

This is very dangerous false doctrine. You are putting the doctrines and policies and interpretation of scripture given by men (who have admitted that mistakes have been made) over the witness of the Holy Spirit. If we only "believe" the Holy Spirit when it agrees with the current policies of the church and leaders, we are putting limits on what He can teach us, and instead trusting in the arm of flesh.

[Zathura]

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

Sure, when it is at odds with the church and leaders.

Church Leaders > Holy Ghost?

[rewcox]

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

Sure, when it is at odds with the church and leaders.

Church Leaders > Holy Ghost?

So you believe anything someone says if they say the holy ghost told them?

Burning Sword said he was Christ. Used 3 or 4 other names, finally said he had been deceived.

There was a man who was taught by an angel. He went about preaching things different than the church. Alma the younger was the chief judge and high priest. The man was quite successful until he went to the people of Ammon, the Anti-Nephi Lehis. They wouldn't listen, and in fact took him to their priest. The man was bound and taken before Alma.

I think you know the story.

If Vision is willing, I suggest a test. Go to the next Testimony meeting in his/her ward. Testify that all churches are corrupt, including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint. Conclude that the holy ghost confirmed this. Then report back to us.

[Lizzy60]

Of course I don't believe everything someone says, just because they say the Holy Ghost revealed it to them. THAT would be trusting in the arm of flesh.

What I will never deny, and will shout from the rooftops (or pulpit) is what the Holy Spirit reveals to me, in a voice and spirit that I cannot deny is from God.

[Vision]

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

So you believe anything someone says if they say the holy ghost told them?

2nd Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

#ponderize

[rewcox]

You can throw scriptures around all day long. Christ said you would know them by their fruit.

I've seen your fruit. I saw Denver's fruit. I saw Burning Swords fruit.

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

So you believe anything someone says if they say the holy ghost told them?

2nd Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

#ponderize

[Zathura]

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

So you believe anything someone says if they say the holy ghost told them?

2nd Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

#ponderize

Here Vision, to add to the truth you've posted.
“I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied.... Suppose that the people were heedless, that they manifested no concern with regard to the things of the Kingdom of God, but threw the whole burden upon the leaders of the people, saying, ‘If the brethren who take charge of matters are satisfied, we are,’ this is not pleasing in the sight of the Lord.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 3, p. 4

[Zathura]

Interesting how Brigham Young told us the same thing that Vision did!
Yet Vision is accused of being Apostate.

How appropriate for this thread.

[rewcox]

Truth isn't the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is corrupt.

Where in the world are you Stahura?

So your saying that my experiences with the holy ghost when I read scripture are opinion?

So you believe anything someone says if they say the holy ghost told them?

2nd Nephi 28:26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!

#ponderize

Here Vision, to add to the truth you've posted.
“I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied.... Suppose that the people were heedless, that they manifested no concern with regard to the things of the Kingdom of God, but threw the whole burden upon the leaders of the people, saying, ‘If the brethren who take charge of matters are satisfied, we are,’ this is not pleasing in the sight of the Lord.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 3, p. 4

[Zathura]

Truth isn't the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is corrupt.

Where in the world are you Stahura?

I never said anything about that.

While we are on the subject, it's not the church that knows all things. It's the Holy Ghost that knows all things.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?


I don't care about whatever interpretation or philosophy someone believes in, the scriptures are worth more than them.

1. Who are these words directed to? Billions of people who will never read this book, let alone get to the end of the Book of Mormon in the 3rd to last book in the BoM? Nah, that's silly. He's talking to us, you, and me.
2. Moroni says our churches are polluted in this day. What's the first thought you have? " He HAS to be talking about other churches, not this church. BUT WAIT! Moroni clarifies! He repeats himself and says, "YEA, EVERY ONE"! How odd, he repeats himself. What's the purpose of repeating something? To get through to the reader. EVERY ONE. Rewcox, what does "Everyone one" mean?
Every one = everyone except the CoJCoLDS?
Nope, every one = everyone.
3. The Holy Church of God?? Even if you don't want to believe that he is talking to members of the church, We at least know he is talking to us in our day. In our day, what church is the "Holy Church of God?" Whatever the "holy church of God" Moroni said that "we"(Whoever "we" are) polluted this Holy Church.

What does this mean? Its clear. Every church in our day is polluted, no exceptions.

The church is ran by imperfect people, therefore, mistakes will be made, they have been made.

If there is pollution in the church ,does that make it false? No! What a crazy belief!

The Bible was polluted greatly, is it false? No! We know it to be the word of God, it's what led Joseph Smith to pray to God!

If the Bible is polluted, yet is still true, then how is it so hard to accept that even the church could be polluted and still be true?

Read these scriptures, think about it.
Logic will help you greatly in this situation.
Also, try and heed the Spirit instead of your opinions.

[rewcox]

Sorry Stahura, you are losing your credibility. These coy games you and Vision are playing won't help your agenda, whatever that is.

The church is Christ's, and is his kingdom on the earth.

This is from an apostle at the recent conference: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... m?lang=eng

You can jump off the ship if you like, I don't recommend it.

Truth isn't the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is corrupt.

Where in the world are you Stahura?

I never said anything about that.

While we are on the subject, it's not the church that knows all things. It's the Holy Ghost that knows all things.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?


I don't care about whatever interpretation or philosophy someone believes in, the scriptures are worth more than them.

1. Who are these words directed to? Billions of people who will never read this book, let alone get to the end of the Book of Mormon in the 3rd to last book in the BoM? Nah, that's silly. He's talking to us, you, and me.
2. Moroni says our churches are polluted in this day. What's the first thought you have? " He HAS to be talking about other churches, not this church. BUT WAIT! Moroni clarifies! He repeats himself and says, "YEA, EVERY ONE"! How odd, he repeats himself. What's the purpose of repeating something? To get through to the reader. EVERY ONE. Rewcox, what does "Everyone one" mean?
Every one = everyone except the CoJCoLDS?
Nope, every one = everyone.
3. The Holy Church of God?? Even if you don't want to believe that he is talking to members of the church, We at least know he is talking to us in our day. In our day, what church is the "Holy Church of God?" Whatever the "holy church of God" Moroni said that "we"(Whoever "we" are) polluted this Holy Church.

What does this mean? Its clear. Every church in our day is polluted, no exceptions.

The church is ran by imperfect people, therefore, mistakes will be made, they have been made.

If there is pollution in the church ,does that make it false? No! What a crazy belief!

The Bible was polluted greatly, is it false? No! We know it to be the word of God, it's what led Joseph Smith to pray to God!

If the Bible is polluted, yet is still true, then how is it so hard to accept that even the church could be polluted and still be true?

Read these scriptures, think about it.
Logic will help you greatly in this situation.
Also, try and heed the Spirit instead of your opinions.

[Zathura]

Sorry Stahura, you are losing your credibility. These coy games you and Vision are playing won't help your agenda, whatever that is.

The church is Christ's, and is his kingdom on the earth.

This is from an apostle at the recent conference: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... m?lang=eng

You can jump off the ship if you like, I don't recommend it.

Truth isn't the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is corrupt.

Where in the world are you Stahura?

I never said anything about that.

While we are on the subject, it's not the church that knows all things. It's the Holy Ghost that knows all things.

36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?


I don't care about whatever interpretation or philosophy someone believes in, the scriptures are worth more than them.

1. Who are these words directed to? Billions of people who will never read this book, let alone get to the end of the Book of Mormon in the 3rd to last book in the BoM? Nah, that's silly. He's talking to us, you, and me.
2. Moroni says our churches are polluted in this day. What's the first thought you have? " He HAS to be talking about other churches, not this church. BUT WAIT! Moroni clarifies! He repeats himself and says, "YEA, EVERY ONE"! How odd, he repeats himself. What's the purpose of repeating something? To get through to the reader. EVERY ONE. Rewcox, what does "Everyone one" mean?
Every one = everyone except the CoJCoLDS?
Nope, every one = everyone.
3. The Holy Church of God?? Even if you don't want to believe that he is talking to members of the church, We at least know he is talking to us in our day. In our day, what church is the "Holy Church of God?" Whatever the "holy church of God" Moroni said that "we"(Whoever "we" are) polluted this Holy Church.

What does this mean? Its clear. Every church in our day is polluted, no exceptions.

The church is ran by imperfect people, therefore, mistakes will be made, they have been made.

If there is pollution in the church ,does that make it false? No! What a crazy belief!

The Bible was polluted greatly, is it false? No! We know it to be the word of God, it's what led Joseph Smith to pray to God!

If the Bible is polluted, yet is still true, then how is it so hard to accept that even the church could be polluted and still be true?

Read these scriptures, think about it.
Logic will help you greatly in this situation.
Also, try and heed the Spirit instead of your opinions.

Tell me the meaning of those scriptures then Rewcox.
You reject our understanding of it, so you tell me what you think it means.

[rewcox]

Don't fight against the church Stahura. It's a losing battle. Denver Snuffer redeux.

Tell me the meaning of those scriptures then Rewcox.
You reject our understanding of it, so you tell me what you think it means.

[Zathura]

Don't fight against the church Stahura. It's a losing battle. Denver Snuffer redeux.

Tell me the meaning of those scriptures then Rewcox.
You reject our understanding of it, so you tell me what you think it means.

Tell me what the scriptures mean.
I will then put down what Elder Tom Perry said, who was an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in this church.

[Zathura]

Don't fight against the church Stahura. It's a losing battle. Denver Snuffer redeux.

Tell me the meaning of those scriptures then Rewcox.
You reject our understanding of it, so you tell me what you think it means.

"He writes first to the members of the Church and then to those who have not embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ. Moroni’s last words to the members of the Church are written as a voice of warning. He writes as one who sees the history of his people repeating itself in the future. From the Book of Mormon we read:

“Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.


“Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.


“And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

“For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.


“O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies--because of the praise of the world?” (Morm. 8:34–38.)

-Elder Tom Perry General Conference October 1992

[Zathura]

Don't fight against the church Stahura. It's a losing battle. Denver Snuffer redeux.

Tell me the meaning of those scriptures then Rewcox.
You reject our understanding of it, so you tell me what you think it means.

I got my interpretation of this scripture from Elder Perry.
I just copied and pasted a part from his talk in General Confetence.
Do you have the courage to address this quote and tell me if he is wrong?

[rewcox]

You're late to the game, or trying again. Been there done that with Denver and group.

Now you know why you don't have a testimony of the leaders.

During my nearly 40 years of close association, I have been a personal witness as both quiet inspiration and profound revelation have moved to action the prophets and apostles, the other General Authorities, and the auxiliary leaders. While neither perfect nor infallible, these good men and women have been perfectly dedicated to leading the work of the Lord forward as He has directed.

And make no mistake about it: the Lord directs His Church through living prophets and apostles. This is the way He has always done His work. Indeed, the Savior taught, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me.”3 We cannot separate Christ from His servants. Without His first Apostles, we would not have an eyewitness account of many of His teachings, His ministry, His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane, and His death on the cross. Without their testimonies, we would not have an apostolic witness of the empty tomb and the Resurrection.

Don't fight against the church Stahura. It's a losing battle. Denver Snuffer redeux.

Tell me the meaning of those scriptures then Rewcox.
You reject our understanding of it, so you tell me what you think it means.

"He writes first to the members of the Church and then to those who have not embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ. Moroni’s last words to the members of the Church are written as a voice of warning. He writes as one who sees the history of his people repeating itself in the future. From the Book of Mormon we read:

“Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.


“Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.


“And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

“For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.


“O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies--because of the praise of the world?” (Morm. 8:34–38.)

-Elder Tom Perry General Conference October 1992

[brlenox]

Is it okay to tell someone they didn't really receive what they say they did?
If someone says they have been born of God, is it EVER okay to try and convince that person that they haven't?
It's one thing to tell them to consider that maybe they haven't, but to say " You have not been born of God you fool!" When is that okay?
If a man or woman humbly testifies that he/she has seen Christ, who are you to belittle him/her and convince him/her otherwise?
If a man has had a vision from God, who are you to mock him?

I have seen this happen many times on this forum, and multiple times I personally have been attacked in this way.

Do you not see what you are doing? You are acting exactly like the "Jesus Freaks" Christians that you make fun of in Sunday School, who damn every Mormon/Jehovahs Witness/7th Day adventist to hell. The ones who go door to door and straight up say that you will go to hell because of Mormonism, and that you need to repent and accept Jesus.

Who am I to tell you what you have and haven't seen? If you have been visited by the power of God, what good does it to for me to try and convince you that you haven't and attack your character?

This is incredibly sad. I won't use any names because those who are guilty of this mistreatment of your fellow-man already know who you are.

To those who prefer to mistreat their fellow man and point their finger; I'd rather sit down at the dinner table and eat with publicans and sinners, than with "Judges and Lawyers" who wash their hands ,anoint themselves and obey all the commandments. Better yet, that's what Jesus, my Savior preferred.

I love all of you and will treat you respect, even when you mistreat me, I still seek to learn, I still seek to help anybody who has had the same struggles as I have had.

I'm not going to answer your question directly but I am going to share with you a statement / story from Joseph Smith. There is a principle involved that I think answers your question, specifically about the issue of whether we can know if another’s inspiration is true or false.

JOSEPH SMITH’S TESTIMONY CONCERNING MEN BEING ORDAINED BY ANGELS, DELIVERED IN THE SCHOOL OF THE PROPHETS IN KIRTLAND, OHIO, IN THE WINTER 0F 1832-3.

The occasion which called forth his testimony upon this matter was a follows:—-One Francis G. Bishop, an Elder In our church, was very anxious to be ordained a high Priest, but he was not considered a proper candidate to fill the office at that time; and his urgent solicitations to be promoted to the High Priesthood, confirmed the Saints in the opinion that he wanted a high station without meriting it, or without being called by the Spirit of God to that work.

He was sent forth into the world to preach in the capacity and calling of an Elder; but he was not long out before he declared himself to be a High Priest—and that he was ordained by an angel from heaven. This made much stir in the branches of the church and also in the world. But when the news of his proceedings reached the prophet Joseph, he called Bishop home forthwith. He was introduced into the school of the prophets, and there closely questioned upon his course. He said he was ordained by an angel to the High Priesthood; yet, on a more close examination, he crossed his own testimony and statements — became confused, and blushed with shame and guilt— he fell down upon his knees and confessed that he had lied in the name of the Lord-begged to be forgiven and cried aloud for mercy. We all forgave him, but we could not give him our confidence, for he had destroyed it. Elder Sidney Rigdon was present at that meeting, and though he has since fallen, still he knows that my statements are correct. Zebedee Coultrin was also present, and many others that I might name.

Brother Joseph observed to Bishop that he knew he had lied before he confessed it; that his declarations were not only false in themselves, but they involved a false princip1e. An angel, said Joseph, may administer the word of the Lord unto men, and bring intelligence to them from heaven upon various subjects; but no true angel from God will ever come to ordain any man, because they have once been sent to establish the priesthood by ordaining me thereunto; and the priesthood being once established on earth with power to ordain others, no heavenly messenger will ever come to interfere with that power by ordaining any more. He referred to the angel that came to Cornelius and told Cornelius to send for Peter; but if there had been no Peter with keys and power to administer, the angel might have done it himself; but as there was, the angel would not interfere. Saul was directed to go to Ananias for instruction and to be administered to by him; but if there had been no Ananias with power and authority on the earth to administer in the name of Christ, the Lord might have done it himself. You may therefore know, from this time forward, that if any man comes to you professing to be ordained by angel, he is either a liar or has been imposed upon in consequence of transgression by an angel of the devil, for this priesthood shall never be taken away from this church.

This testimony was delivered in an upper room, in the south-west corner of the White Store and dwelling-house, formerly occupied by Whitney and Gilbert, situated on Kirtland Flats.

Now by way of observation... Sometimes we make observations that according to personal paradigms seem to be sensible. Your OP is one such example. It seems proper to not question others inspiration and certainly I can agree that the manner in which we question should be according to proper decorum. However, I think Joseph illustrates in this story the answer to your question and the answer is not what you think it should be. All of this comes under the heading of trying the spirits. We have had recent examples, at least two, in the past couple of years that if people properly understood this principle that Joseph describes they would have rejected completely the imposters that made claims of spiritual insight that oppose true principles by which we can know whether to receive them or not. However, when we buy into false principles, be it for the cause of polite deference, or political correctness, or for purely self-serving ambitions we will be led astray.

So often I have heard people say that they liked some principles that one of these inspired folks referenced above (for the sake of clarity Snuffer and Rowe) taught but other points were obviously to be rejected. This is also not a sensible response, once one discerns a lying spirit then one rejects the entirety of the message. It is not about the individuals as much as it is about the guides these individuals have taken. The guides know just how to phrase and word things to interlace the truth with the philosophies of men and of devils. Seek out true messengers and learn from them and seek the spirit to make it yours.

Consider upon Joseph's statement above and see what you think.

[Zathura]

You've lost credibility Rewcox
You don't address anything that doesn't support your opinion.
Come back when you want to address that quote from General Conference.
I literally copied and pasted from General Confrtence and said "this is what I believe" and you call me apostate haha.
Oh boy. More accusations . How appropriate

[Zathura]

Is it okay to tell someone they didn't really receive what they say they did?
If someone says they have been born of God, is it EVER okay to try and convince that person that they haven't?
It's one thing to tell them to consider that maybe they haven't, but to say " You have not been born of God you fool!" When is that okay?
If a man or woman humbly testifies that he/she has seen Christ, who are you to belittle him/her and convince him/her otherwise?
If a man has had a vision from God, who are you to mock him?

I have seen this happen many times on this forum, and multiple times I personally have been attacked in this way.

Do you not see what you are doing? You are acting exactly like the "Jesus Freaks" Christians that you make fun of in Sunday School, who damn every Mormon/Jehovahs Witness/7th Day adventist to hell. The ones who go door to door and straight up say that you will go to hell because of Mormonism, and that you need to repent and accept Jesus.

Who am I to tell you what you have and haven't seen? If you have been visited by the power of God, what good does it to for me to try and convince you that you haven't and attack your character?

This is incredibly sad. I won't use any names because those who are guilty of this mistreatment of your fellow-man already know who you are.

To those who prefer to mistreat their fellow man and point their finger; I'd rather sit down at the dinner table and eat with publicans and sinners, than with "Judges and Lawyers" who wash their hands ,anoint themselves and obey all the commandments. Better yet, that's what Jesus, my Savior preferred.

I love all of you and will treat you respect, even when you mistreat me, I still seek to learn, I still seek to help anybody who has had the same struggles as I have had.

I'm not going to answer your question directly but I am going to share with you a statement / story from Joseph Smith. There is a principle involved that I think answers your question, specifically about the issue of whether we can know if another’s inspiration is true or false.

JOSEPH SMITH’S TESTIMONY CONCERNING MEN BEING ORDAINED BY ANGELS, DELIVERED IN THE SCHOOL OF THE PROPHETS IN KIRTLAND, OHIO, IN THE WINTER 0F 1832-3.

The occasion which called forth his testimony upon this matter was a follows:—-One Francis G. Bishop, an Elder In our church, was very anxious to be ordained a high Priest, but he was not considered a proper candidate to fill the office at that time; and his urgent solicitations to be promoted to the High Priesthood, confirmed the Saints in the opinion that he wanted a high station without meriting it, or without being called by the Spirit of God to that work.

He was sent forth into the world to preach in the capacity and calling of an Elder; but he was not long out before he declared himself to be a High Priest—and that he was ordained by an angel from heaven. This made much stir in the branches of the church and also in the world. But when the news of his proceedings reached the prophet Joseph, he called Bishop home forthwith. He was introduced into the school of the prophets, and there closely questioned upon his course. He said he was ordained by an angel to the High Priesthood; yet, on a more close examination, he crossed his own testimony and statements — became confused, and blushed with shame and guilt— he fell down upon his knees and confessed that he had lied in the name of the Lord-begged to be forgiven and cried aloud for mercy. We all forgave him, but we could not give him our confidence, for he had destroyed it.(Note: Excellent and proper explanation of forgiving another but not trusting when unmerited. :End Note) Elder Sidney Rigdon was present at that meeting, and though he has since fallen, still he knows that my statements are correct. Zebedee Coultrin was also present, and many others that I might name.

Brother Joseph observed to Bishop that he knew he had lied before he confessed it; that his declarations were not only false in themselves, but they involved a false princip1e. An angel, said Joseph, may administer the word of the Lord unto men, and bring intelligence to them from heaven upon various subjects; but no true angel from God will ever come to ordain any man, because they have once been sent to establish the priesthood by ordaining me thereunto; and the priesthood being once established on earth with power to ordain others, no heavenly messenger will ever come to interfere with that power by ordaining any more. He referred to the angel that came to Cornelius and told Cornelius to send for Peter; but if there had been no Peter with keys and power to administer, the angel might have done it himself; but as there was, the angel would not interfere. Saul was directed to go to Ananias for instruction and to be administered to by him; but if there had been no Ananias with power and authority on the earth to administer in the name of Christ, the Lord might have done it himself. You may therefore know, from this time forward, that if any man comes to you professing to be ordained by angel, he is either a liar or has been imposed upon in consequence of transgression by an angel of the devil, for this priesthood shall never be taken away from this church.

This testimony was delivered in an upper room, in the south-west corner of the White Store and dwelling-house, formerly occupied by Whitney and Gilbert, situated on Kirtland Flats.

Now by way of observation... Sometimes we make observations that according to personal paradigms seem to be sensible. Your OP is one such example. It seems proper to not question others inspiration and certainly I can agree that the manner in which we question should be according to proper decorum. However, I think Joseph illustrates in this story the answer to your question and the answer is not what you think it should be. All of this comes under the heading of trying the spirits. We have had recent examples, at least two, in the past couple of years that if people properly understood this principle that Joseph describes they would have rejected completely the imposters that made claims of spiritual insight that oppose true principles by which we can know whether to receive them or not. However, when we buy into false principles, be it for the cause of polite deference, or political correctness, or for purely self-serving ambitions we will be led astray.

So often I have heard people say that they liked some principles that one of these inspired folks referenced above (for the sake of clarity Snuffer and Rowe) taught but other points were obviously to be rejected. This is also not a sensible response, once one discerns a lying spirit then one rejects the entirety of the message. It is not about the individuals as much as it is about the guides these individuals have taken. The guides know just how to phrase and word things to interlace the truth with the philosophies of men and of devils. Seek out true messengers and learn from them and seek the spirit to make it yours.

Consider upon Joseph's statement above and see what you think.

Thank You for this! It's great.
I will take time later to give a better response