UnChrist-Like Accusations

[Zathura]

Is it okay to tell someone they didn't really receive what they say they did?
If someone says they have been born of God, is it EVER okay to try and convince that person that they haven't?
It's one thing to tell them to consider that maybe they haven't, but to say " You have not been born of God you fool!" When is that okay?
If a man or woman humbly testifies that he/she has seen Christ, who are you to belittle him/her and convince him/her otherwise?
If a man has had a vision from God, who are you to mock him?

I have seen this happen many times on this forum, and multiple times I personally have been attacked in this way.

Do you not see what you are doing? You are acting exactly like the "Jesus Freaks" Christians that you make fun of in Sunday School, who damn every Mormon/Jehovahs Witness/7th Day adventist to hell. The ones who go door to door and straight up say that you will go to hell because of Mormonism, and that you need to repent and accept Jesus.

Who am I to tell you what you have and haven't seen? If you have been visited by the power of God, what good does it to for me to try and convince you that you haven't and attack your character?

This is incredibly sad. I won't use any names because those who are guilty of this mistreatment of your fellow-man already know who you are.

To those who prefer to mistreat their fellow man and point their finger; I'd rather sit down at the dinner table and eat with publicans and sinners, than with "Judges and Lawyers" who wash their hands ,anoint themselves and obey all the commandments. Better yet, that's what Jesus, my Savior preferred.

I love all of you and will treat you respect, even when you mistreat me, I still seek to learn, I still seek to help anybody who has had the same struggles as I have had.

[Sarah]

If I am included in your view of the guilty then I apologize if I made you or others feel this way. I like to get to the bottom of things, and I don't by any means feel anyone on this forum has less character than I. I just like to jump in and defend the principles and the Church I hold to be true. If someone whats to question me about my beliefs and how I received that knowledge, I have no problem with them telling me why or how I could be wrong. I think that would be good for me.

[marc]

Are there any Christ-like accusations?

[Zathura]

If I am included in your view of the guilty then I apologize if I made you or others feel this way. I like to get to the bottom of things, and I don't by any means feel anyone on this forum has less character than I. I just like to jump in and defend the principles and the Church I hold to be true. If someone whats to question me about my beliefs and how I received that knowledge, I have no problem with them telling me why or how I could be wrong. I think that would be good for me.

By all means, defend the church and the principles

It'd be good for all of us to simply consider new things. Rarely does someone have a perfect knowledge of something, this means that we always have something to learn

[Zathura]

Are there any Christ-like accusations?

You snakes! You Brood of Vipers!

[marc]

Do they apply to Him or to us? Christ is just. He is God. Who are we?

[Zathura]

Do they apply to Him or to us?

tell me what I need to learn here

[marc]

Do they apply to Him or to us?

tell me what I need to learn here

I used to feel the need to defend myself--if I had heard or seen something and shared it, it was purely out of love and as an example that if someone like me can experience something, anyone can. Yes, unChrist-like accusations abound. It is not a reflection of me, but of them.

10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

When Jesus Christ granted the three Nephites their desires, the only pains they would feel were sorrows for the sins of the world. It hurts me when I am reviled, but only because others do not want what I have been given. I feel sorrow because it's not me they reject.

Anyway, If Christ accuses me, it is to chasten me. He loves whom He chastens. Christ is God. He is just. I am a fool. Therefore, any accusation I would ever make toward anyone would be, by default, unChrist-like. There is no Christ-like accusation--unless you are Christ.

Stahura, you have a tender heart. Tender hearts are easily crushed. But they are easily healed by the Master Healer. Endure the unChrist-like accusations as Christ did.

34 ¶Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...

[Sarah]

Are there any Christ-like accusations?

Actually, the D&C does lay out instructions for those who have been offended and want to take their case up with Church leaders. There is bad behavior that the Lord says he wants stopped for the sake of the name of the Church, and so that bad behavior will need to be pointed out, which necessitates an accuser. The accused should obviously get a fair trial.

[marc]

I don't disagree with you, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[Zathura]

Do they apply to Him or to us?

tell me what I need to learn here

I used to feel the need to defend myself--if I had heard or seen something and shared it, it was purely out of love and as an example that if someone like me can experience something, anyone can. Yes, unChrist-like accusations abound. It is not a reflection of me, but of them.

10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

When Jesus Christ granted the three Nephites their desires, the only pains they would feel were sorrows for the sins of the world. It hurts me when I am reviled, but only because others do not want what I have been given. I feel sorrow because it's not me they reject.

Anyway, If Christ accuses me, it is to chasten me. He loves whom He chastens. Christ is God. He is just. I am a fool. Therefore, any accusation I would ever make toward anyone would be, by default, unChrist-like. There is no Christ-like accusation--unless you are Christ.

Stahura, you have a tender heart. Tender hearts are easily crushed. But they are easily healed by the Master Healer. Endure the unChrist-like accusations as Christ did.

34 ¶Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...

I have a lot to think about.

[Sarah]

I don't disagree with you, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I know, I just thought I'd point it out. I agree with your post that as a rule we should not accuse or judge. Satan is the great accuser. Anytime we accuse someone we are risking being like him. I just found myself at one point the witness of bad behavior and had to ask myself what should be done about it. I realized that sometimes the guilty need to be brought out into the light.

[Obrien]

Is it okay to tell someone they didn't really receive what they say they did?

... (edited length for mobile device users)

This is incredibly sad. I won't use any names because those who are guilty of this mistreatment of your fellow-man already know who you are.

To those who prefer to mistreat their fellow man and point their finger; I'd rather sit down at the dinner table and eat with publicans and sinners, than with "Judges and Lawyers" who wash their hands ,anoint themselves and obey all the commandments. Better yet, that's what Jesus, my Savior preferred.

I love all of you and will treat you respect, even when you mistreat me, I still seek to learn, I still seek to help anybody who has had the same struggles as I have had.

Stahura - you're being overly optimistic. They really don't realize it - they are fighting heresy. Let the scorn roll of your shoulders, brother. Your posts are interesting and inspirational for many of us here.

[Zathura]

Is it okay to tell someone they didn't really receive what they say they did?

... (edited length for mobile device users)

This is incredibly sad. I won't use any names because those who are guilty of this mistreatment of your fellow-man already know who you are.

To those who prefer to mistreat their fellow man and point their finger; I'd rather sit down at the dinner table and eat with publicans and sinners, than with "Judges and Lawyers" who wash their hands ,anoint themselves and obey all the commandments. Better yet, that's what Jesus, my Savior preferred.

I love all of you and will treat you respect, even when you mistreat me, I still seek to learn, I still seek to help anybody who has had the same struggles as I have had.

Stahura - you're being overly optimistic. They really don't realize it - they are fighting heresy. Let the scorn roll of your shoulders, brother. Your posts are interesting and inspirational for many of us here.

K I'll just brush my shoulders off

[rewcox]

Didn't you use the R word today? Regurgitate.

Is it okay to tell someone they didn't really receive what they say they did?

... (edited length for mobile device users)

This is incredibly sad. I won't use any names because those who are guilty of this mistreatment of your fellow-man already know who you are.

To those who prefer to mistreat their fellow man and point their finger; I'd rather sit down at the dinner table and eat with publicans and sinners, than with "Judges and Lawyers" who wash their hands ,anoint themselves and obey all the commandments. Better yet, that's what Jesus, my Savior preferred.

I love all of you and will treat you respect, even when you mistreat me, I still seek to learn, I still seek to help anybody who has had the same struggles as I have had.

Stahura - you're being overly optimistic. They really don't realize it - they are fighting heresy. Let the scorn roll of your shoulders, brother. Your posts are interesting and inspirational for many of us here.

[rewcox]

Christ said this, Mark 13:22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

We have to deal with false in our days, even the elect are at risk. We are exposed to to all sorts of posts at LDSFF. Some from ex members. Some from resigned members. Some from disaffected members. Many at opposition to the church.

You posted with quotes supporting polygamy at variance with the church. And that is how it goes.

[Zathura]

Christ said this, Mark 13:22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

We have to deal with false in our days, even the elect are at risk. We are exposed to to all sorts of posts at LDSFF. Some from ex members. Some from resigned members. Some from disaffected members. Many at opposition to the church.

You posted with quotes supporting polygamy at variance with the church. And that is how it goes.

Who is "Elect"?
What makes a person "Elect"?

[rewcox]

Christ said this, Mark 13:22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

We have to deal with false in our days, even the elect are at risk. We are exposed to to all sorts of posts at LDSFF. Some from ex members. Some from resigned members. Some from disaffected members. Many at opposition to the church.

You posted with quotes supporting polygamy at variance with the church. And that is how it goes.

Who is "Elect"?
What makes a person "Elect"?

What say ye?

[marc]

What makes a person "Elect"?

Not what, Who.

[Zathura]

Christ said this, Mark 13:22
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

We have to deal with false in our days, even the elect are at risk. We are exposed to to all sorts of posts at LDSFF. Some from ex members. Some from resigned members. Some from disaffected members. Many at opposition to the church.

You posted with quotes supporting polygamy at variance with the church. And that is how it goes.

Who is "Elect"?
What makes a person "Elect"?

What say ye?

I asked first

Tell me!

[Zathura]

Does one become elect after a specific event/experience?

If so, what experience is this?

[marc]

Does one become elect after a specific event/experience?

If so, what experience is this?

We discussed this in Gospel Doctrine class just yesterday. https://www.lds.org/manual/new-testamen ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Peter exhorted the Saints to “give diligence to make your calling and election sure” (2 Peter 1:10). What does it mean to make your calling and election sure? (To receive from the Lord the assurance or promise of exaltation in the celestial kingdom. A person whose calling and election is made sure knows that he or she is “sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy” [D&C 131:5]. Joseph Smith received this promise from the Lord, as recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 132:49.)


•What must we do to have our calling and election made sure?
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands), … then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 150).

Furthermore and more importantly: http://lecturesonfaith.com/6.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[EdGoble]

Is it okay to tell someone they didn't really receive what they say they did?
If someone says they have been born of God, is it EVER okay to try and convince that person that they haven't?
It's one thing to tell them to consider that maybe they haven't, but to say " You have not been born of God you fool!" When is that okay?
If a man or woman humbly testifies that he/she has seen Christ, who are you to belittle him/her and convince him/her otherwise?
If a man has had a vision from God, who are you to mock him?

I have seen this happen many times on this forum, and multiple times I personally have been attacked in this way.

Do you not see what you are doing? You are acting exactly like the "Jesus Freaks" Christians that you make fun of in Sunday School, who damn every Mormon/Jehovahs Witness/7th Day adventist to hell. The ones who go door to door and straight up say that you will go to hell because of Mormonism, and that you need to repent and accept Jesus.

Who am I to tell you what you have and haven't seen? If you have been visited by the power of God, what good does it to for me to try and convince you that you haven't and attack your character?

This is incredibly sad. I won't use any names because those who are guilty of this mistreatment of your fellow-man already know who you are.

To those who prefer to mistreat their fellow man and point their finger; I'd rather sit down at the dinner table and eat with publicans and sinners, than with "Judges and Lawyers" who wash their hands ,anoint themselves and obey all the commandments. Better yet, that's what Jesus, my Savior preferred.

I love all of you and will treat you respect, even when you mistreat me, I still seek to learn, I still seek to help anybody who has had the same struggles as I have had.

I'm not going to sit here and be told that characters that have done this kind of stuff on here with relative impunity for nothing more than trying to get attention can always get away with it without being called out, who make outlandish claims, any more than Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton ought to be able to get away with what they get away with, without being challenged. Sorry, I am not bound by other people's supposed spiritual experiences and reserve the right to treat with skepticism anything I please, and call anyone out for it I please at any time, at any moment, whether you like it or not. And the only person that can censor me is the owner of the forum or moderator, if he doesn't like it. And I suspect that in most cases, it would only be if I say it in a way that is truly unChristlike.

Absolutely, we ought to be as Christlike as possible, but I won't be told that every person on here has a right to make whatever outlandish claim they can and that somehow, showing skepticism toward claims in and of itself is unChristlike. That is not the case. Perhaps the way it is said is one thing. But for example, I won't coddle a homosexual and be tolerant of the sin, when I hate the sin. I can't give it a pass, and tell them there is no consequence. And somebody that gets on here claiming to see Christ or whatever has no business making a claim like that publicly even if true, and I reserve the right to treat with skepticism any claim that I please, and voice it.

[Zathura]

Does one become elect after a specific event/experience?

If so, what experience is this?

We discussed this in Gospel Doctrine class just yesterday. https://www.lds.org/manual/new-testamen ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•Peter exhorted the Saints to “give diligence to make your calling and election sure” (2 Peter 1:10). What does it mean to make your calling and election sure? (To receive from the Lord the assurance or promise of exaltation in the celestial kingdom. A person whose calling and election is made sure knows that he or she is “sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy” [D&C 131:5]. Joseph Smith received this promise from the Lord, as recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 132:49.)
•What must we do to have our calling and election made sure?
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost (by the laying on of hands), … then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 150).

Furthermore and more importantly: http://lecturesonfaith.com/6.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why didn't I ever connect "elect" with "election"? Haha

[marc]

I'm not going to sit here and be told that characters that have done this kind of stuff on here with relative impunity for nothing more than trying to get attention can get away with it without being called out, who make outlandish claims, any more than Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton ought to be able to get away with what they get away with, without being challenged. Sorry, I am not bound by other people's supposed spiritual experiences and reserve the right to treat with skepticism anything I please, and call anyone out for it I please at any time, at any moment, whether you like it or not. And the only person that can censor me is the owner of the forum or moderator, if he doesn't like it.

Absolutely, we ought to be as Christlike as possible, but I won't be told that every person on here has a right to make whatever outlandish claim they can and that somehow, showing skepticism toward claims in and of itself is unChristlike. That is not the case. Perhaps the way it is said is one thing. But for example, I won't coddle a homosexual and be tolerant of the sin, when I hate the sin. I can't give it a pass, and tell them there is no consequence. And somebody that gets on here claiming to see Christ or whatever has no business making a claim like that publicly even if true, and I reserve the right to treat with skepticism any claim that I please, and voice it.

You are correct. You are not bound by other people's supposed experiences. But outlandish? Really? This is the church of miracles and of healings and of visitations and ministering of angels and Comforters. Are all these and all the gifts of the Spirit really outlandish? As for nobody having the right to make such claims, "even if true" is your opinion only and one by which nobody else is bound.