"The church doesn't know what to do with single people"

[Jlynnp06]

I have a friend who says to me often that "the church has the family thing down, but they don't know what to do with single people". She returned to church after being inactive for about 12 years or so. She was in a long term relationship that she decided to break off because she wanted to work towards the temple and he didn't want to get married. I am married with kids and I am one of those people that never seems to say the right thing... So I need other people's incite because I know we will have this conversation again.

[Melissa]

Why does someone say they don't know what to do with the single members? They have singles programs for younger and older singles and they have singles wards and they are encouraging members (men) to step up and find a companion. What else can they do?
They won't ever make being single the foundation because marriage and families are. They have said very sensitive things towards women who can't or haven't had the chance to bear their own children. And have been comforting that they will not miss anything promised to those who desire it.

I'm getting tired of the church being blamed for everything. -WE ARE THE CHURCH -

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I agree, we are the church.

I think the entire singles program is not the best thing for singles.

Why not let singles be with families in family wards, where they will be better prepared for marriage than they will hanging out endlessly with other singles (which is what happens I would say more then less amongst singles) - talk about depressing, being told to go to a singles ward for the rest of your life, away from kids and family dynamics. Can you imagine the good it would do putting a single person in a family ward as EQ president member, bishopric or relief society or young womens instead of in a culture of trying to share and teach with others who are your exact same age?

The entire idea that we raise kids up to send them off to college (after 12 years of being mostly away from family at public school) to grow up and get married is a false tradition. I miss the idea of families sticking together, working as a family to raise kids, work, make an income or living, etc.. and being on a family farm (whatever that "farm" is, be it an actual farm, technology, making candles or whatever).

Keep a single in a family ward, and there they have opportunities to work with families, kids, youth, etc., rather than the many false traditions that exist in singles cultures. There is a spirit being with families vs the spirits (plural) that tend to linger around single wards.

I was in singles ward upon coming home from the mission, and I lasted maybe 1/2 a year or so and it was all I needed to know it was anti-progression towards healthy relationships, meaningful marriage, and the false traditions I was often invited to participate in, announced over the pulpit, and drilled into you in each subsequent class... and if you didn't submit you were an outcast, and were not in the "in" crowd (and I thank God I wasn't cool enough to be in the "in" crowd who many are still not married).

My advice would be to get that person back into NORMAL life, which NORMAL life is away from SINGLES wards entirely.

[Army Of Truth]

I have a friend who says to me often that "the church has the family thing down, but they don't know what to do with single people". She returned to church after being inactive for about 12 years or so. She was in a long term relationship that she decided to break off because she wanted to work towards the temple and he didn't want to get married. I am married with kids and I am one of those people that never seems to say the right thing... So I need other people's incite because I know we will have this conversation again.

I totally understand where she is coming from. I've been single for 7 years after my divorce. And being a single dad doesn't help. I go to a family ward when I have my boys so that they can participate in primary activities and things. But when I don't have my boys, every other week, I go to a "Mid Singles" ward which is ages 31-45. However, since I am now 44, I am starting to feel out of place even in this mid singles ward. When I go to my family ward with my boys, there have been many times that I've simply left my EQ class to go read in my car and wait for my boys to finish their class because our EQ lesson was "Eternal Marriage" or something pertaining to marriage or relationships and I'm not there yet. Many of my friends also experience these things so this is indeed something that us older singles have to endure. I wish they had a mid-singles ward where you can bring your kids but they don't because too many singles are only there for a few months, then get married and the poor kids would be moving around a lot.

I used to do this 'switcheroo' thing every week (Singles Ward w/out boys, Family Ward w/boys) but got tired of it so I'm just going to my Family Ward. So other than telling you I can see where she is coming from, my only advice is that she can find a Singles Ward (18-30) or Mid-Singles Wards (31-45) depending on where she is at. And if that doesn't work, she can always go to a family ward.

[Matchmaker]

I was an older single in my ward before my divorce and then again after. I wanted to go to a singles' ward where I would be able to socialize with others in the same situation as I, because I felt like an outcast who didn't fit in anywhere, but because I was over 45, I was not permitted to attend. There were few women in my family ward who wanted to become close pals with a divorced woman, so I spent a lot of time alone. Luckily for me, I lived in the Intermountain West where there were Church dances and firesides for the over 45 which were relatively well attended at times. Otherwise, I would have spent a lot more of my time alone than I needed to.

I was hoping that someone in my family ward would introduce me to a single relative or a single man in the ward who attended Priesthood with the other men, but no one ever did. No one in the Ward took any interest at all in my dating prospects, even as a friend helping out a friend in the ward. Apparently, my problem of being single and trying to find a nice LDS man was my problem not theirs. If I had a broken leg, they would have helped me, but I was on my own when it came to meeting eligible men. I think that is why some single adults end up in clubs or bars and look outside the Church for companionship.

[Fiannan]

Why does someone say they don't know what to do with the single members? They have singles programs for younger and older singles and they have singles wards and they are encouraging members (men) to step up and find a companion. What else can they do?
They won't ever make being single the foundation because marriage and families are. They have said very sensitive things towards women who can't or haven't had the chance to bear their own children. And have been comforting that they will not miss anything promised to those who desire it.

I'm getting tired of the church being blamed for everything. -WE ARE THE CHURCH -

Mostly agree. And while I have questioned the way the age boundaries are established (a 27 year old woman is more likely to find happiness with a 40 year old man than a 22 year old RM) with computer dating sites and the like one does not need to just rely on the Church for finding a mate.

The area I would disagree is that if I were a single woman approaching the dreaded 40 year too-late-to-have-kids stage of life I would seriously consider artificial insemination. That time article a while back observed that this is growing in popularity with Mormon women.

[Melissa]

Why does someone say they don't know what to do with the single members? They have singles programs for younger and older singles and they have singles wards and they are encouraging members (men) to step up and find a companion. What else can they do?
They won't ever make being single the foundation because marriage and families are. They have said very sensitive things towards women who can't or haven't had the chance to bear their own children. And have been comforting that they will not miss anything promised to those who desire it.

I'm getting tired of the church being blamed for everything. -WE ARE THE CHURCH -

Mostly agree. And while I have questioned the way the age boundaries are established (a 27 year old woman is more likely to find happiness with a 40 year old man than a 22 year old RM) with computer dating sites and the like one does not need to just rely on the Church for finding a mate.

The area I would disagree is that if I were a single woman approaching the dreaded 40 year too-late-to-have-kids stage of life I would seriously consider artificial insemination. That time article a while back observed that this is growing in popularity with Mormon women.

Since you have starting talking about AI, I have wondered how these women would do this alone? Obviously they are working if they are adults and single and not living at home still. So, they will work while pregnant (I know lots of women do that) then they have the baby and then what? Most jobs only offer so much vacation/sick time.and she needs her paycheck to keep living and eating. What does she do with the child when she returns to work?

It just seems really difficult for this situation, done by choice. The kid will spend his/her childhood at day care which costs a ton. Therefore she is even more dependant on getting her paycheck and a bigger paycheck.

It just seems selfish to do this by choice. The child will not be raised by his mother.

I don't know, those are just my thoughts as a woman. It would be really hard for her and hard for the kid.

[Zathura]

You don't need an organization to help you just because you're single.

Urge your friend to cry unto God for mercy, that he may fill her with fire and the Holy Ghost, that she may feel true joy and receive the strength to carry on through her struggles.

I have a friend who says to me often that "the church has the family thing down, but they don't know what to do with single people". She returned to church after being inactive for about 12 years or so. She was in a long term relationship that she decided to break off because she wanted to work towards the temple and he didn't want to get married. I am married with kids and I am one of those people that never seems to say the right thing... So I need other people's incite because I know we will have this conversation again.

[Desert Roses]

I was divorced at age 45, and spent the next 5 years as a single in the church. I also struggled with the family ward, and to tell the truth, I still avoid those "Eternal Marriage and Family" lessons even though I was married in the temple 7 years ago.

The big realization for me was when I finally understood that it wasn't about "finding" the right person, it was about BEING the right person. When I focused on that, suddenly it didn't matter that I was single. I felt as if I could live my life single till I died if I needed to, because my satisfaction and joy came from living the gospel as fully as I could--prayer, scripture study, service to others, focusing on how I could be more ready to greet my Savior.

There's a sister in my ward that I visit; she is 81. She was divorced from an unfaithful husband nearly 50 years ago, and still has hope that the Lord will bring a worthy man into her life so she can be sealed. She doesn't waste her time feeling sorry for herself (think Aunt Rose), and is one of the most spiritual, scripturally sound, amazing people I have ever known. She loves the Lord, and knows that He loves her. She's happy! And she is a faithful attender of our family ward.

[David13]

Why should the church have anything to do with it?
The church is a church, not a matchmaker. Nor a dating service.
It's up to the individual.
I've been divorced for quite a while, and I've become quite adjusted to doing everything on my own.
I'm still looking around, but I'm set up to live my own life.
Which brings me to a little musical interlude:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... JN5hmZwTEA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
dc

[Sandinista]

I have a friend who says to me often that "the church has the family thing down, but they don't know what to do with single people". She returned to church after being inactive for about 12 years or so. She was in a long term relationship that she decided to break off because she wanted to work towards the temple and he didn't want to get married. I am married with kids and I am one of those people that never seems to say the right thing... So I need other people's incite because I know we will have this conversation again.

I totally understand where she is coming from. I've been single for 7 years after my divorce. And being a single dad doesn't help. I go to a family ward when I have my boys so that they can participate in primary activities and things. But when I don't have my boys, every other week, I go to a "Mid Singles" ward which is ages 31-45. However, since I am now 44, I am starting to feel out of place even in this mid singles ward. When I go to my family ward with my boys, there have been many times that I've simply left my EQ class to go read in my car and wait for my boys to finish their class because our EQ lesson was "Eternal Marriage" or something pertaining to marriage or relationships and I'm not there yet. Many of my friends also experience these things so this is indeed something that us older singles have to endure. I wish they had a mid-singles ward where you can bring your kids but they don't because too many singles are only there for a few months, then get married and the poor kids would be moving around a lot.

I used to do this 'switcheroo' thing every week (Singles Ward w/out boys, Family Ward w/boys) but got tired of it so I'm just going to my Family Ward. So other than telling you I can see where she is coming from, my only advice is that she can find a Singles Ward (18-30) or Mid-Singles Wards (31-45) depending on where she is at. And if that doesn't work, she can always go to a family ward.

I can relate to this! When I was divorced at 46 (my wife decided "Joe Smith's cult" was not for her anymore and left both the church and me) it was a shock to suddenly find myself single in a Ward made up of families, most of who were my fiends. And I found out first hand just how much pressure, whether perceived or real it doesn't matter, that the Church puts on single LDS members to achieve the "eternal marriage" ideal! Fortunately I was able to navigate through the maze and come out on the other side unscathed, sealed to a new spouse with a great "blended family", all active in the church. But those who have never gone through it have no idea how trying it is. It's hard enough to go through divorce with all the associated disappointments, shattered dreams, and feelings on inadequacy without the added pressure of somehow not meeting the cultural and religious bias inherent in our concept of =eternal marriage". All I can say to those who may be going through this is that God knows you and it will all work out eventually, whether n this life or the next.

[Zowieink]

It is not a "Church (as an organized body)" that is the problem. I am one of three widowers in my very, very active stake. My wife died 6 years ago and it has been a struggle for many of those years. The members of the Church are the real problem. They have preconceived ideas and when you don't fall into one of the neat little boxes they put people, most are at odds with what to do with you. I personally have chosen, since in my head I am still very much in love with my wife, to not date or otherwise "mingle" with other singles. The family ward was the right choice for me, even though many of them, even after 6 years, don't know how to be "at ease" around me.

That being said, I find great happiness and friendship serving as an ordinance worker in the temple. I know this isn't available to everyone, but, for me it was the answer to loneliness and depression. I was accepted as I was, since there are other Sisters and Brothers in the same position as well as married couples. But the feeling of being included, loved, nurtured, etc. has given me the strength and resolve to move on with life and enjoy it.

As far as Singles Wards are concern, I think that the younger 18-30 is a good thing, although it can become a meat market. But, if done with the spirit it helps develop great men and women, where a family ward may not succeed. The mid and older single's wards tend to be bi-polar at best. You are either (from a man's perspective) check out by the single women as acceptable, financially secure, temple worthy, and sexually capable. If are deficient in any of those areas, you are cast off as "unworthy". This is done by the "cougars" in the mid and older singles wards (not a large group but large enough to affect the attitudes of others. This is not true everywhere, but it was my experience. Family wards are the answer if members would look at us as normal everyday people and not obsess over our singleness.

[sandman45]

I agree, we are the church.

I think the entire singles program is not the best thing for singles.

Why not let singles be with families in family wards, where they will be better prepared for marriage than they will hanging out endlessly with other singles (which is what happens I would say more then less amongst singles) - talk about depressing, being told to go to a singles ward for the rest of your life, away from kids and family dynamics. Can you imagine the good it would do putting a single person in a family ward as EQ president member, bishopric or relief society or young womens instead of in a culture of trying to share and teach with others who are your exact same age?

The entire idea that we raise kids up to send them off to college (after 12 years of being mostly away from family at public school) to grow up and get married is a false tradition. I miss the idea of families sticking together, working as a family to raise kids, work, make an income or living, etc.. and being on a family farm (whatever that "farm" is, be it an actual farm, technology, making candles or whatever).

Keep a single in a family ward, and there they have opportunities to work with families, kids, youth, etc., rather than the many false traditions that exist in singles cultures. There is a spirit being with families vs the spirits (plural) that tend to linger around single wards.

I was in singles ward upon coming home from the mission, and I lasted maybe 1/2 a year or so and it was all I needed to know it was anti-progression towards healthy relationships, meaningful marriage, and the false traditions I was often invited to participate in, announced over the pulpit, and drilled into you in each subsequent class... and if you didn't submit you were an outcast, and were not in the "in" crowd (and I thank God I wasn't cool enough to be in the "in" crowd who many are still not married).

My advice would be to get that person back into NORMAL life, which NORMAL life is away from SINGLES wards entirely.

HAHA the 'In' crowd at the singles ward I went to were the ones who were weird or never ended up getting married.. I also got sick of every lesson and talk and testimony being about 'GO GET MARRIED!!!' it was almost as if they were trying to force people to get married.

[Fiannan]

Why does someone say they don't know what to do with the single members? They have singles programs for younger and older singles and they have singles wards and they are encouraging members (men) to step up and find a companion. What else can they do?
They won't ever make being single the foundation because marriage and families are. They have said very sensitive things towards women who can't or haven't had the chance to bear their own children. And have been comforting that they will not miss anything promised to those who desire it.

I'm getting tired of the church being blamed for everything. -WE ARE THE CHURCH -

Mostly agree. And while I have questioned the way the age boundaries are established (a 27 year old woman is more likely to find happiness with a 40 year old man than a 22 year old RM) with computer dating sites and the like one does not need to just rely on the Church for finding a mate.

The area I would disagree is that if I were a single woman approaching the dreaded 40 year too-late-to-have-kids stage of life I would seriously consider artificial insemination. That time article a while back observed that this is growing in popularity with Mormon women.

Since you have starting talking about AI, I have wondered how these women would do this alone? Obviously they are working if they are adults and single and not living at home still. So, they will work while pregnant (I know lots of women do that) then they have the baby and then what? Most jobs only offer so much vacation/sick time.and she needs her paycheck to keep living and eating. What does she do with the child when she returns to work?

It just seems really difficult for this situation, done by choice. The kid will spend his/her childhood at day care which costs a ton. Therefore she is even more dependant on getting her paycheck and a bigger paycheck.

It just seems selfish to do this by choice. The child will not be raised by his mother.

I don't know, those are just my thoughts as a woman. It would be really hard for her and hard for the kid.

Yet it is better to be born to a single LDS woman who has the gospel than to a single woman without. And what good is it if a woman loses out on the opportunity to have a child or two -- that would be a couple more kids for Sunday meetings.

[Fiannan]

One more thing, I knew a teacher who was devout LDS. His wife died and I fully expected him to marry a younger woman since he was really in good shape and looked way younger than his age. Yet he married a woman who was past childbearing age. Of course he must have fallen in love and all but maybe LDS culture should kinda promote more acceptance of older men and younger women getting married (especially when a devout male winds up single again). This would enable some of the surplus women to get sealed in the temple and have families. And guys, remember, the Church opposes surgical sterilization - keep that in mind.

[Melissa]

One more thing, I knew a teacher who was devout LDS. His wife died and I fully expected him to marry a younger woman since he was really in good shape and looked way younger than his age. Yet he married a woman who was past childbearing age. Of course he must have fallen in love and all but maybe LDS culture should kinda promote more acceptance of older men and younger women getting married (especially when a devout male winds up single again). This would enable some of the surplus women to get sealed in the temple and have families. And guys, remember, the Church opposes surgical sterilization - keep that in mind.

Elder Nelson.

Granted they were older than you were refering. But obviously there is acceptance of a man with a much younger woman. The world views it as fine too. Most girls want an older guy anyways.

Once you hit a certain age, adult is adult. Now a 50 year old hitting on 18 year olds is creepy, but why not a 35 year old who can still have a couple kids. No biggy.

Having babies is very important Fiannan but remember that other things are important too. We are more than just baby makers, and should be driven by that knowledge- not the need to constantly procreate. If a mans wife dies and he is only 50 and has grown kids why should he feel responsible to have more babies? He's getting older and has done his duty and provided for a family now grown.
He's going to be a grandpa. Every child needs a grandpa!

Just sayin'

[Sirocco]

One more thing, I knew a teacher who was devout LDS. His wife died and I fully expected him to marry a younger woman since he was really in good shape and looked way younger than his age. Yet he married a woman who was past childbearing age. Of course he must have fallen in love and all but maybe LDS culture should kinda promote more acceptance of older men and younger women getting married (especially when a devout male winds up single again). This would enable some of the surplus women to get sealed in the temple and have families. And guys, remember, the Church opposes surgical sterilization - keep that in mind.

Elder Nelson.

Granted they were older than you were refering. But obviously there is acceptance of a man with a much younger woman. The world views it as fine too. Most girls want an older guy anyways.

Once you hit a certain age, adult is adult. Now a 50 year old hitting on 18 year olds is creepy, but why not a 35 year old who can still have a couple kids. No biggy.

Having babies is very important Fiannan but remember that other things are important too. We are more than just baby makers, and should be driven by that knowledge- not the need to constantly procreate. If a mans wife dies and he is only 50 and has grown kids why should he feel responsible to have more babies? He's getting older and has done his duty and provided for a family now grown.
He's going to be a grandpa. Every child needs a grandpa!

Just sayin'

I have one, though I really wish I didn't lol
So I don't speak to him anymore.

Being single and alone is something I've had to swallow alot in my life, though I have broken off friendships because of it (I can't relate to people in relationships, it always comes back to their relationship) had I made it official I'd have never gone to any singles wards, I can't imagine wanting to date any singles my age, especially church goers lol
(even if they wanted to be with me which... no not in a million years).

[Sunain]

Once you hit a certain age, adult is adult. Now a 50 year old hitting on 18 year olds is creepy, but why not a 35 year old who can still have a couple kids. No biggy.

I'm approaching 35, 2 years to go, and as a single adults rep, just like to point out some of the experiences I've had. I've never married but there is just a lack of prospects in the area. Most church members still think that its taboo for someone in their mid 30's+ range to be even considering asking let alone dating someone in the 18-19 year old age and the majority thinks that these members should have married ages ago. Dirty looks from members to 'older' singles, ostracizing, false gossip, parents telling their children not to date or marry other members for superfluous reasons are VERY common in singles dating culture in the church.

[Melissa]

Once you hit a certain age, adult is adult. Now a 50 year old hitting on 18 year olds is creepy, but why not a 35 year old who can still have a couple kids. No biggy.

I'm approaching 35, 2 years to go, and as a single adults rep, just like to point out some of the experiences I've had. I've never married but there is just a lack of prospects in the area. Most church members still think that its taboo for someone in their mid 30's+ range to be even considering asking let alone dating someone in the 18-19 year old age and the majority thinks that these members should have married ages ago. Dirty looks from members to 'older' singles, ostracizing, false gossip, parents telling their children not to date or marry other members for superfluous reasons are VERY common in singles dating culture in the church.

Yes, you are correct. A 30 something guy shouldn't be looking at 18 year olds. In my statement I was referring to the 50 year old standpoint and that he could go for someone 35ish. Not a 35ish going for 18-19

They are still babies. And honestly a 30 something shouldn't be attracted to that age group anyway, they are immature. It does look bad for sure. A guy keeps getting older and older yet, he keeps looking in the same age group he looked after his mission. It doesn't look good on him.

[JohnnyL]

Once you hit a certain age, adult is adult. Now a 50 year old hitting on 18 year olds is creepy, but why not a 35 year old who can still have a couple kids. No biggy.

I'm approaching 35, 2 years to go, and as a single adults rep, just like to point out some of the experiences I've had. I've never married but there is just a lack of prospects in the area. Most church members still think that its taboo for someone in their mid 30's+ range to be even considering asking let alone dating someone in the 18-19 year old age and the majority thinks that these members should have married ages ago. Dirty looks from members to 'older' singles, ostracizing, false gossip, parents telling their children not to date or marry other members for superfluous reasons are VERY common in singles dating culture in the church.

Yes, you are correct. A 30 something guy shouldn't be looking at 18 year olds. In my statement I was referring to the 50 year old standpoint and that he could go for someone 35ish. Not a 35ish going for 18-19

They are still babies. And honestly a 30 something shouldn't be attracted to that age group anyway, they are immature. It does look bad for sure. A guy keeps getting older and older yet, he keeps looking in the same age group he looked after his mission. It doesn't look good on him.

A 35-year old isn't still a baby to a 50-year old??
Why the age limits you decided? Why are some differences ok, but not others?

[Melissa]

Once you hit a certain age, adult is adult. Now a 50 year old hitting on 18 year olds is creepy, but why not a 35 year old who can still have a couple kids. No biggy.

I'm approaching 35, 2 years to go, and as a single adults rep, just like to point out some of the experiences I've had. I've never married but there is just a lack of prospects in the area. Most church members still think that its taboo for someone in their mid 30's+ range to be even considering asking let alone dating someone in the 18-19 year old age and the majority thinks that these members should have married ages ago. Dirty looks from members to 'older' singles, ostracizing, false gossip, parents telling their children not to date or marry other members for superfluous reasons are VERY common in singles dating culture in the church.

Yes, you are correct. A 30 something guy shouldn't be looking at 18 year olds. In my statement I was referring to the 50 year old standpoint and that he could go for someone 35ish. Not a 35ish going for 18-19

They are still babies. And honestly a 30 something shouldn't be attracted to that age group anyway, they are immature. It does look bad for sure. A guy keeps getting older and older yet, he keeps looking in the same age group he looked after his mission. It doesn't look good on him.

A 35-year old isn't still a baby to a 50-year old??
Why the age limits you decided? Why are some differences ok, but not others?

Ohh, nothing is as I decide. I have just observed that once you hit a certain age people care less about age. I just threw out some generic numbers to illiterate, they certainly are not the law.

Maybe a 35 year old is a baby to a 50 year old. Guess it all depends. I don't see either of those as being old nor have I reached those ages. Sorry if I offended

[David13]

Once you hit a certain age, adult is adult. Now a 50 year old hitting on 18 year olds is creepy, but why not a 35 year old who can still have a couple kids. No biggy.

I'm approaching 35, 2 years to go, and as a single adults rep, just like to point out some of the experiences I've had. I've never married but there is just a lack of prospects in the area. Most church members still think that its taboo for someone in their mid 30's+ range to be even considering asking let alone dating someone in the 18-19 year old age and the majority thinks that these members should have married ages ago. Dirty looks from members to 'older' singles, ostracizing, false gossip, parents telling their children not to date or marry other members for superfluous reasons are VERY common in singles dating culture in the church.

Yes, you are correct. A 30 something guy shouldn't be looking at 18 year olds. In my statement I was referring to the 50 year old standpoint and that he could go for someone 35ish. Not a 35ish going for 18-19

They are still babies. And honestly a 30 something shouldn't be attracted to that age group anyway, they are immature. It does look bad for sure. A guy keeps getting older and older yet, he keeps looking in the same age group he looked after his mission. It doesn't look good on him.

Melissa
It's primal. Above and beyond the ordinary control of the human male.
It's because they are fertile. The are in the prime of the child bearing age at 18 or 19.
And the true purpose of sex is for reproduction, not recreation.
dc