So whats the point of Mormonism?

[rewcox]

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

The Celestial Kingdom.

[Robert Sinclair]

Good to keep the "Celestial Law", of "Equal in your temporal things" and this not grudgingly, by "distribution of imparting from the hands of the Bishops, "All things common" among you from the storehouse treasury of God, and the "Feast of Fat Things" well prepared, of the rich and learned, the wise and noble among you, for the supper of the Lamb of God, the poor and needy among you, in preparation to meet the face of God.♡

For behold the bridegroom cometh soon, are you prepared to meet God, equal in your temporal things for homes and lands, food and raiment, as he has commanded? "If" not can you feel the need to do so now?

Good to return next General Conference, to take a vote of raised hands, all in favor of keeping all the comments of God, including being equal in our temporal things, and this not grudgingly, by the show of the uplifted hand, and of all those opposed and see what the vote shall be.♡

[rewcox]

Do you have to spam everything?

Good to keep the "Celestial Law", of "Equal in your temporal things" and this not grudgingly, by "distribution of imparting from the hands of the Bishops, "All things common" among you from the storehouse treasury of God, and the "Feast of Fat Things" well prepared, of the rich and learned, the wise and noble among you, for the supper of the Lamb of God, the poor and needy among you, in preparation to meet the face of God.♡

For behold the bridegroom cometh soon, are you prepared to meet God, equal in your temporal things for homes and lands, food and raiment, as he has commanded? "If" not can you feel the need to do so now?

Good to return next General Conference, to take a vote of raised hands, all in favor of keeping all the comments of God, including being equal in our temporal things, and this not grudgingly, by the show of the uplifted hand, and of all those opposed and see what the vote shall be.♡

[Robert Sinclair]

Will even you rewcox, fight against the redemption of Zion? And if so why?

Where is the wisdom?♡

[2ndRateMind]

People have said the same thing about Jesus. In fact, I know of one rabbi who said, "Jesus was a great prophet who had wonderful ideas—none of them new."

Uh huh. That's just the kind of thing a rabbi would say, wouldn't he? But the thing is, I think Jesus did have something new and distinctive to say, despite the fact that He was careful to frame it in terms Jews could accept. Love your neighbour, and do good to him, even though your neighbour may be your enemy, seems to me to be a significant advance on 'An eye for eye, and a tooth for a tooth'. There is precious little evidence of such love in the OT, and a great deal of such evidence in the NT, which was aimed at everyone, even us gentiles, and not just Jews, which is another significant development.

Of course, prophets are not messiahs. We should not expect the same shifts in the understanding, either of each other, or of God, from them as we get from Jesus. But nevertheless, they must have some novel angle on philosophy and/or theology, or we have not advanced at all, just made yet another schism in Christianity's fractured family.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Hogmeister]

I'm genuinely puzzled about this. What is it the Church of the Latter Day Saints brings to The Great Debate, that isn't already in the Gospels? I'm not getting at Joseph Smith; I'm quite prepared to believe he was a prophet, with sensible things to say, like 'Let there be no poor among you'. I just wonder what is definitively new in the Book of Mormon?

Best wishes, 2RM.

The restoration of the temple and its priesthood ordinances.


"19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.

20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.

21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;"

[captainfearnot]

People have said the same thing about Jesus. In fact, I know of one rabbi who said, "Jesus was a great prophet who had wonderful ideas—none of them new."

Uh huh. That's just the kind of thing a rabbi would say, wouldn't he? But the thing is, I think Jesus did have something new and distinctive to say, despite the fact that He was careful to frame it in terms Jews could accept.

Uh huh. That's just the kind of thing a Christian would say, isn't it?

Seriously though, the point stands that we think Jesus made some unique, special contributions to moral and ethical thought, but non-Christians don't tend to see it the same way. If he was who we say he was, then he easily could have blown us all away with knowledge bombs, but he didn't. Likewise, as a Mormon, I'm pretty impressed with what Joseph Smith had to say. His treatment of theodicy, for instance, I think is pretty unique in Christian thought. But then I'm Mormon. Non-mormons don't tend to see it. They ask, if he's really who he says he is, why isn't he blowing us away with knowledge only a true prophet could access?

[Robert Sinclair]

Jesus Christ taught what no other I have seen taught, and lived to perfection, and that was by his own freewill he allowed people who hated him to crucify him in a manner most distressing and hurtful, forgiving and showing loving kindness in return, for he could of just spoke the word, and these enemies would have been smitten to the dust, to rise against him never again. But he allowed this pain and suffering to show exactly what he meant by "love your enemies". No example by anyone ever recorded surpasses this example of clean hands and a pure heart, as the life of Jesus Christ upon this earth, that I have ever seen written amongst all the books written, among the children of man. Unless someone can come up with an example that surpasses this life given as a Lamb of God, every single tongue will confess and every knee will bend to acknowledge that this one alone is the Christ, and Messiah, the Savior and Redeemer, the King of all saints, and temple to look to for an example of no unclean thing entering into the heart, of oneself.♡

[Rose Garden]

People have said the same thing about Jesus. In fact, I know of one rabbi who said, "Jesus was a great prophet who had wonderful ideas—none of them new."

Uh huh. That's just the kind of thing a rabbi would say, wouldn't he? But the thing is, I think Jesus did have something new and distinctive to say, despite the fact that He was careful to frame it in terms Jews could accept.

Uh huh. That's just the kind of thing a Christian would say, isn't it?

Seriously though, the point stands that we think Jesus made some unique, special contributions to moral and ethical thought, but non-Christians don't tend to see it the same way. If he was who we say he was, then he easily could have blown us all away with knowledge bombs, but he didn't. Likewise, as a Mormon, I'm pretty impressed with what Joseph Smith had to say. His treatment of theodicy, for instance, I think is pretty unique in Christian thought. But then I'm Mormon. Non-mormons don't tend to see it. They ask, if he's really who he says he is, why isn't he blowing us away with knowledge only a true prophet could access?

Maybe because only a true prophet can access it?

[Desert Roses]

People have said the same thing about Jesus. In fact, I know of one rabbi who said, "Jesus was a great prophet who had wonderful ideas—none of them new."

Uh huh. That's just the kind of thing a rabbi would say, wouldn't he? But the thing is, I think Jesus did have something new and distinctive to say, despite the fact that He was careful to frame it in terms Jews could accept. Love your neighbour, and do good to him, even though your neighbour may be your enemy, seems to me to be a significant advance on 'An eye for eye, and a tooth for a tooth'. There is precious little evidence of such love in the OT, and a great deal of such evidence in the NT, which was aimed at everyone, even us gentiles, and not just Jews, which is another significant development.

Of course, prophets are not messiahs. We should not expect the same shifts in the understanding, either of each other, or of God, from them as we get from Jesus. But nevertheless, they must have some novel angle on philosophy and/or theology, or we have not advanced at all, just made yet another schism in Christianity's fractured family.

Best wishes, 2RM.

You seem to be ignoring the biggest paradigm shift already mentioned in more than one post: That humans may literally become a being like God; they may become Gods. Our purpose here on earth takes a very different view when seen through that lens. No longer are we just trying to "be good," we are trying to "be God." That, I suggest, is one (of many) paradigm shifts that Joseph Smith restored. (Yes...restored--if you study primitive Christianity you'll find it was a staple belief for the earliest followers of Christ.)

Edited to add: AND THAT, dear 2RM, IS THE POINT OF MORMONISM!!

[oneClimbs]

The Book of Mormon isn't just important because of content; it is a sign.

[Robert Sinclair]

The Mormon church, is not Mormon's church, neither do I believe he would ever wish to claim a church of any kind whatsoever, and this church, not having as instructed by Jesus Christ, "All things common" among the members, where they are equal in their temporal things and this not grudgingly, I have doubt that Jesus Christ will claim this church to be his true church either, save this church acknowledges this mistake, of rejecting his laws, and returns to establish "All things common" among the members, from his storehouse treasury, and a "Feast of Fat Things" well prepared for the poor of the members, as if they were Jesus Christ himself, from the rich and the learned the wise and noble, led and instructed of this Twelve running this church, as instructed in D&C 42, 58, 70 of the "law", "wedding invitation", and "foundation" of his true church none are exempt from. Yes, even as Peter with the Twelve set up "All things common" by distribution of consecrations, and the Twelve of the Nephites set up "All things common" by distribution, if the current Twelve do not do, as Jesus Christ said to do, then Jesus Christ has said, he shall not claim you to be his.
And I do not believe for even one moment, Mormon will claim you to be his ever.

Good to do as instructed of Jesus Christ, O heads of Jacob, and princes of the House of Israel of Ephraim, gone away from his instructions of setting up the tower and ensign and light of "All things common", putting God's storehouse treasury instead, into buildings to adore above the care of the poor, and out to the exchangers, as is forbidden. Only awaken and give ear and hear and see the truth of the state of the vineyard of the LORD, under your watch, and see if you have established "All things common" among the members. "If" not, awaken and get out of bed, sleepyheads, and go and do as God has said.

Distribute and impart, until "All things common" among the members is established, yes, follow the instructions of Jesus Christ perfectly.♡

[Rose Garden]

The Book of Mormon isn't just important because of content; it is a sign.

Please expound.

[Thinker]

People have said the same thing about Jesus. In fact, I know of one rabbi who said, "Jesus was a great prophet who had wonderful ideas—none of them new."

Uh huh. That's just the kind of thing a rabbi would say, wouldn't he? But the thing is, I think Jesus did have something new and distinctive to say, despite the fact that He was careful to frame it in terms Jews could accept. Love your neighbour, and do good to him, even though your neighbour may be your enemy, seems to me to be a significant advance on 'An eye for eye, and a tooth for a tooth'. There is precious little evidence of such love in the OT, and a great deal of such evidence in the NT, which was aimed at everyone, even us gentiles, and not just Jews, which is another significant development.

Of course, prophets are not messiahs. We should not expect the same shifts in the understanding, either of each other, or of God, from them as we get from Jesus. But nevertheless, they must have some novel angle on philosophy and/or theology, or we have not advanced at all, just made yet another schism in Christianity's fractured family.

Best wishes, 2RM.

I watched a fascinating piece theorizing that Jesus was likely influenced by Buddhism.
Buddhism had been around about 500 years when Jesus was alive, and he even mentions of the "wise men of the east" in his parable of his birth.

I do not see any one religion as the ONE AND ONLY way to connect to God spiritually.
Yet, I see truth in each religion - and actually, I tend to believe that the more perspectives, the more truthful.
Did you ever hear or read the story, "Life of Pi"? It's about a guy who grew up Hindu, but came to appreciate other religious faiths also, and there is some powerful symbolism in that story - but that's another topic.

Just as we have advanced medically and with various inventions and technology, we also advance spiritually - little by little.
Each generation builds on the accumulative knowledge from past generations and contributes, propelling us as a human race.
When I think of all of the negative, stupid things people (we all) do sometimes, I wonder if we're going backwards.
But I think that we are going forward - by trial and error. Many of us have to learn the hard way - to experience for ourselves HELL - this seems to be the state of many societies. Yet, eventually, we WILL learn - it's inherent. Our purpose is to learn - and be able to love more efffectively.

Jesus was a great prophet - most will agree with that. He drastically shifted the direction of spiritual and religious belief.
Before Jesus, Socrates and Buddha and others, after Jesus like William Tynsdale, Joseph Smith, Martin Luther King Jr. - (& more) - all had a dream of something better and led people to it. I think the big dream Joseph Smith had was the idea that we are children of God - that we can connect directly to God - that we are gods in embryo! NewAgers take this as common knowledge, but back in the day (1800's) - it was heresy to claim such.

[Robert Sinclair]

The missing years of Jesus have been traced to several villages throughout the Silk Road trade route, from Jerusalem through Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Tibet, where texts have been found of his visits and also teachings going through holy cities of Gautama Buddha, and also where the Zoroastrian priests were. Check the travels and visits to these areas by Nicholas Roerich of 1929, Max Muller 1894, and other researchers who have traveled these areas. This in preparation for his return to Jerusalem to be crucified. Well studied and experienced in teaching the word of God.♡

Interesting to think that in the Spirit it was he that was the one who came to Enoch and Noah, and Moses and the Brother of Jared, in thought to Buddah, as well as sent out messengers like Gabriel to deliver messages of the "Script" of this earth that was to unfold, and of the happenings to take place, foretold thousands of years before they were to take place, and of and end also to this grand "Script", that would eventually take place, before another great council was to be held once more. Who knows, another 8,000 year plan laid out to take place, and of those who would have acts to preform, and parts to play once more?

Who would raise their hand next, and say, "Send me", ready to show the way of peace and goodwill, and of "love your enemies", and be able to pass this test?

Interesting the thoughts of a plan and script, with a beginning and and end, and a repeat, all over and over again, to teach the spirits and souls of what is good, and holy and just, and to do good continually, no matter where you are placed, or whatever your circumstances, to bring to pass the eternal life and happiness of all mankind.♡

But for now, none better to follow than Jesus Christ, who has passed this test and shown the way, teaching all mankind the ways to be like, and the things to do, and of the things to know.♡

[oneClimbs]

The Book of Mormon isn't just important because of content; it is a sign.

Please expound.

3 Nephi chapters 21 and 29

[Rose Garden]

Thank you.

For reference:

1 And verily I say unto you, I give unto you a sign, that ye may know the time when these things shall be about to take place—that I shall gather in, from their long dispersion, my people, O house of Israel, and shall establish again among them my Zion;

2 And behold, this is the thing which I will give unto you for a sign—for verily I say unto you that when these things which I declare unto you, and which I shall declare unto you hereafter of myself, and by the power of the Holy Ghost which shall be given unto you of the Father, shall be made known unto the Gentiles that they may know concerning this people who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, and concerning this my people who shall be scattered by them;

3 Verily, verily, I say unto you, when these things shall be made known unto them of the Father, and shall come forth of the Father, from them unto you;

4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed, that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted with his people, O house of Israel;

5 Therefore, when these works and the works which shall be wrought among you hereafter shall come forth from the Gentiles, unto your seed which shall dwindle in unbelief because of iniquity;

6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;

7 And when these things come to pass that thy seed shall begin to know these things—it shall be a sign unto them, that they may know that the work of the Father hath already commenced unto the fulfilling of the covenant which he hath made unto the people who are of the house of Israel.

8 And when that day shall come, it shall come to pass that kings shall shut their mouths; for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

13 Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off.

14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;

15 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds;

16 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers;

17 Thy graven images I will also cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands;

18 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.

19 And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away.

20 For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel;

21 And I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;

23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.

24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.

25 And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in the midst.

26 And then shall the work of the Father commence at that day, even when this gospel shall be preached among the remnant of this people. Verily I say unto you, at that day shall the work of the Father commence among all the dispersed of my people, yea, even the tribes which have been lost, which the Father hath led away out of Jerusalem.

27 Yea, the work shall commence among all the dispersed of my people, with the Father to prepare the way whereby they may come unto me, that they may call on the Father in my name.

28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.

29 And they shall go out from all nations; and they shall not go out in haste, nor go by flight, for I will go before them, saith the Father, and I will be their rearward.

1 And now behold, I say unto you that when the Lord shall see fit, in his wisdom, that these sayings shall come unto the Gentiles according to his word, then ye may know that the covenant which the Father hath made with the children of Israel, concerning their restoration to the lands of their inheritance, is already beginning to be fulfilled.

2 And ye may know that the words of the Lord, which have been spoken by the holy prophets, shall all be fulfilled; and ye need not say that the Lord delays his coming unto the children of Israel.

3 And ye need not imagine in your hearts that the words which have been spoken are vain, for behold, the Lord will remember his covenant which he hath made unto his people of the house of Israel.

4 And when ye shall see these sayings coming forth among you, then ye need not any longer spurn at the doings of the Lord, for the sword of his justice is in his right hand; and behold, at that day, if ye shall spurn at his doings he will cause that it shall soon overtake you.

5 Wo unto him that spurneth at the doings of the Lord; yea, wo unto him that shall deny the Christ and his works!

6 Yea, wo unto him that shall deny the revelations of the Lord, and that shall say the Lord no longer worketh by revelation, or by prophecy, or by gifts, or by tongues, or by healings, or by the power of the Holy Ghost!

7 Yea, and wo unto him that shall say at that day, to get gain, that there can be no miracle wrought by Jesus Christ; for he that doeth this shall become like unto the son of perdition, for whom there was no mercy, according to the word of Christ!

8 Yea, and ye need not any longer hiss, nor spurn, nor make game of the Jews, nor any of the remnant of the house of Israel; for behold, the Lord remembereth his covenant unto them, and he will do unto them according to that which he hath sworn.

9 Therefore ye need not suppose that ye can turn the right hand of the Lord unto the left, that he may not execute judgment unto the fulfilling of the covenant which he hath made unto the house of Israel.