Polygamy - the unnecessary distraction of Carnal mans attempt to define God being in and through all things?

[rewcox]

I testified boldly as you requested. Ed told you to bug off.

I won't agree with you BofM. I prefer a different fruit.

You did not confirm it in the least. What you did confirm was telling me how because the book of mormon is true, that means everything connected to it must be true, church, polygamy (at the time), and esp. man's interpretation of Jacob 2, men who lived polygamy.

The gospel restored invites us to seek wisdom and knowledge, even the mysteries of Godliness. Stepping out of the box to reconsider Jacob 2, brother rewcox, I promise will not make you an apostate, but I do warn you, it will shake your FAITH in man, which is a good thing.

I love the same gospel you purport to love. I love and sustain you as my fellow brother. I do however, have a heart that has been opened and softened as I've learned to trust the Lord, and I'm here on his errand often, not my own, to invite others to the beautify of the restored gospel, beauty that men of authority oft times get in the way of, change, and cause us to err in... Jacob 2 is a prime example of this. Fear not seeking a witness of it yourself is my invite to you personally, may you consider it not for my sake, but yours.

[Sarah]

Widowers are to be taken care of, that is in the gospel, not married per say but taken care of, however then you have the story of Ruth and Boaz to consider... So I'm with you on not knowing, but I do feel powerfully what I shared in the OP is closer to reality than this false polygamy idea of man.

And the church says:

Why did your church previously practice plural marriage (polygamy)?
Official Answer
At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1). At other times the Lord has given other instructions. In the Book of Mormon, the Lord told the prophet Jacob “for there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife: and concubines he shall have none... for if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things” (Jacob 2:27-30).

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1).

The Lord’s law of marriage is monogamy unless he commands otherwise to help establish the House of Israel (see Encyclopedia of Mormonism Vol. 3, pp. 1091-1095).

Following your pattern just now, here you go... again...

I'll post this again here for those who desire to keep an open mind and let God teach you the truth, not some MAN's counsel about some scripture they said means something that makes NO SENSE after all in its context and reading... I trust that those whose hearts are as a child, will see the truth plainly as Nephi stated it is to be had.

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This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

I've read all this before and this guy has not convinced me that he has the right interpretation. He even admits he doesn't believe the BofM to be true!

Putting it all together in a paraphrase, Jacob 30 actually means: “Because if I will raise up a righteous branch here in the Promised Land, I will govern my people; otherwise they shall listen to the things written about David and Solomon and continue committing whoredoms.”.../quote]

This doesn't sound like how the Lord would say something.

[Stacy Oliver]

What a cute comment.

Per your sweetness, may I just say the following, I now know what it is like to have a vision, given of God, and have the saints mock it openly and ill-inspired, and decry foul, put assumptions, dates, and words in my mouth.

I pray God bless you for the integrity of your heart and unfeigned love towards myself and others.

It is coming, it isn't my doing, but Gods, and it is his timing and will. I am feeling this Spring 2016, as we attempt to leave Utah again, which has been in my visions from God when it occurs, and this time we are leaving on his terms not ours. May you be humble enough to know the Lord's will for you and your family, and may he grant you with visions to bless your heart with patterns that only he can give you, patterns that comfort you in regards to his promises made to you.

It didn't happen when you said it would, so now you're pushing it back to 2016, huh? Can I get a preview of when the next deadline will be after you're proven wrong again?

Stacy, please enlighten us all where I said it will happen exactly at this date. I said it will happen when we leave Utah, which we attempted to do last spring and late summer, and the Lord said not yet, and not in your way. This spirit of anger, assumption, and falsely accusing is not of God, but definitely is rampant on this forum, with yourself, rewcox, and esp. the ring leader shadow.

You said, "Spirit gave me this prayer, rain will not cease until we repent or an earthquake helps us out."

I don't live in Utah, so you'll have to confirm for me. Did the rain stop? Was there an earthquake?

[BrotherOfMahonri]

You said, "Spirit gave me this prayer, rain will not cease until we repent or an earthquake helps us out."

I don't live in Utah, so you'll have to confirm for me. Did the rain stop? Was there an earthquake?

So you put a date on it for me.... I see now what's going on. Nothing new, exactly what others did.

Let me state it again.

God has shown me in vision and dreams, as I am leaving this valley with my wife and kids (a vision I've had repeated since my mission) down the road of Provo, UT, in a silver suburban with an attached silver enclosed trailer (which we now own for past year) passing Timpview High, the valley is burning at spontaneous locations, mountains, trees, houses, and more, the school is on fire in particular as we pass by it in the dark (suggesting night) marveling at all the changes around us, changes which suggest a massive earthquake, and more destruction will follow. Rain comes in abundance without ceasing at some point, and causes this forsaken desert to blossom. I am at great peace in the dream, despite the marveling at all the changes around us.

Indeed, if we do not wake ourselves up, pull ourselves out from babylon, the voice of an earthquake will mercifully help us out, as what we have today, is not well, nor is it Kingdom-building, and that Joseph himself has the task of setting up again, as his is the right to do so in our dispensation, and he has indeed visited us in sacred ways that only those whose hearts are hearing the same voice we are, will we share with from now on.

As to a date, you and others mockingly set that up yourselves, I did not, other than when we are leaving the valley, which we had every intention of doing, only to be stopped by the Lord and told not in our way or time, but his - and I don't blame you for putting a date to it all, as there are many sons and daughters having visions if you will open your heart to the spirit to guide you in regards to those visions, so here is to your getting your own visions to confirm or debunk what you have taken it upon yourself now to mock, persecute and assume the worse of, all unbecoming of the gospel of Christ and what it invites us to become don't you think?

[Sarah]

My thoughts below yours in red.

I think we need to look at marriage and sealings as not just about the blessings we will receive from the union, but how we can enter marriage with the intent to help another, and lift another, even in his or her imperfect/unbalanced state.
Interesting thought. I have the habit of putting all these thoughts to and through the Christ and what his example was, which lead me directly to his loving, virtuous, and sacred relationship it seems (esp. if the spirit is with you studying this) with Mary Magdelene and Martha to name two. He lifted them, loved them, and from what I understand did not need to marry either of them?

I don't know enough about your parents to be the judge, but the fact remains that the third wife now has the chance to make a sacred covenant with God despite your Dad's questionable worthiness status. agreed, and she is innocent in my eyes for sure, and the atonement is for everyone And really, aren't we all guilty of not being a perfect wife/husband? Doesn't every husband and wife(mother) exercise some unrighteous dominion? yes, however love and maturity seems to be at a higher level with some than others, which is why sometimes we have divorce is it not? So like all other covenants, these earth-life sealings are conditional upon righteousness. But that sealing covenant is tied to God first and foremost, so even if your spouse fouls up, you will be blessed to receive all the promised blessings. For this reason, it makes sense for women to receive the opportunity to be sealed, even if is to an imperfect husband who already has a wife. The husbands are the one's who can offer the gift of marriage. Because they offer marriage, it makes sense that they are accountable to offer the gift of exaltation to every woman.

As for Elder Scott, I don't think it is our place to assume what his reasons were for not marrying again. In fact, it might be that part of his mission included testifying of the perfect love he shared with his wife to all of us. Yes, I agree that there are unions that have this ecstasy of such spiritual oneness and perfect love that they were always eternal, even from before this mortal life. I do believe we had relationships before this life of some sort, and we were naturally drawn to some or one more than others. That is why part of my belief and understanding is that even though plural marriage is an eternal principle, and we all might be married to more than one, there will be those who we feel more a connection and kindred feeling towards than perhaps others. That doesn't mean we can't love another perfectly and help them in their progression. My Dad, even though I know he loves his second wife, misses the kind of relationship he had with my mother. My mom was super easy-going and was a real pleaser. This woman is different. She is more opinionated about what she wants and feels and I think it is good for my dad in some ways. She is stretching him. That's what marrying different personalities will do to us. It will stretch us. We will develop different traits by partnering and working together with another. I really don't know, if all this is true, but that is what I'm inclined to believe at the moment based on personal revelation and from clues we find in the scriptures, temple, and words from the prophets.
thanks for sharing. reading your thoughts just now, my heart feels something about sealings being that of family, as after all, your husband to you, or my wife to me, is a spiritual sibling are they not? If we had that perspective, with the perspective without the veil, I feel our thoughts about man's attempt to establish polygamy as if from God would be extra laughable and quite sad.

As for the idea that it is wrong to remarry if the wife hasn't given consent, I really don't know if that is true or not. We find instances of both happening. Perhaps there are blessings for the wife if she does consent, and that is really what the Law of Sarah is, I don't know, I'd have to do some research on that. I know my Dad felt that my mom had given her consent to him to remarry after about a year or so. I'm not sure what you are suggesting by your final comments. Do you feel that widowers should also not remarry?

Widowers are to be taken care of, that is in the gospel, not married per say but taken care of, however then you have the story of Ruth and Boaz to consider... So I'm with you on not knowing, but I do feel powerfully what I shared in the OP is closer to reality than this false polygamy idea of man.

Am I understanding you right, that you believe a MAN who is a widower should not remarry at all? Even a young guy who looses his wife early on in their marriage, before they had any children?

You're right in your other point - sealings are what make us all family, but the marriage sealing is special in the fact that it is a covenant relationship designed to create life. Marriage is really about children. It is also about love, but as I explained in an earlier post, God is not concerned about us receiving love in this life. He does want us to feel HIS LOVE, but he knows that all his children will fail at loving each other perfectly. It isn't until we are tested and become sanctified through the power of the atonement that we can love perfectly, and that will enable us to really appreciate marriage relationships for the power to bring love and joy to our lives. So what does marriage matter in this life then, at least to God? It is all about CHILDREN. Sec. 132, says that among other things, the law Abraham and Sarah were to follow fulfilled the promises for posterity and eternal seed. The Lord says that from Hagar would come many people. We have the same reasoning behind polygamy in Joseph and Brigham's day. Was it hard and burdensome? Of course, but don't we covenant to lay down our own lives in necessary?

Section 132

28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.

29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.

36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I've read all this before and this guy has not convinced me that he has the right interpretation. He even admits he doesn't believe the BofM to be true!

Putting it all together in a paraphrase, Jacob 30 actually means: “Because if I will raise up a righteous branch here in the Promised Land, I will govern my people; otherwise they shall listen to the things written about David and Solomon and continue committing whoredoms.”.../quote]

This doesn't sound like how the Lord would say something.

He does admit that, and I didn't edit it out either, but the point is how Jacob 2 is written and its grammar, can you see that? It isn't a book of mormon is true issue, but an issue of grammar, which is plain if you read it through again and set aside the bias (not accusing here, I promise) that exists from being told one tradition for so long.

I hope the guy never convinces you, he didn't convince me, God did entirely, and lead me to that reading after giving me a witness, as it helped me understand it even more plainly, and showed me also God is no respecter of persons (lead me to the understanding of someone who doesn't believe in the book of mormon - bless his heart).

I don't expect anyone to believe me, I have my own witness, I do however have the Lord telling me to share my witness and invite others to hear HIS voice on the matter. That is entirely up to each of us. But i promise you, it won't come until we repent of unbelief, we maybe dont' even recognize is there (I speak from personal experience).

Jacob 2 pro-polygamy interpretation comes from men in the church who lived polygamy. It is engrained in our heads from the time we hear it in church. Can you imagine if that was wrong? Holy Church Cow! I never questioned it, until I allowed the Lord to show me his perspective first on what we were asking him about (political issues, constitution, etc.,) our temporal awakeing, which he used to prepare us for our spiritual awakening journey we didn't know he was about to lead us on - as he leads us back to him, without man getting in His way, of His perfect work.

I have everything to loose in this and am no idiot to throw it away to the wind, Polygamy is man's error, and is more or less than the gospel.

[rewcox]

I have everything to loose in this and am no idiot to throw it away to the wind, Polygamy is man's error, and is more or less than the gospel.

Forget Jacob. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, Soloman - another witness.

[Sarah]

I've read all this before and this guy has not convinced me that he has the right interpretation. He even admits he doesn't believe the BofM to be true!

Putting it all together in a paraphrase, Jacob 30 actually means: “Because if I will raise up a righteous branch here in the Promised Land, I will govern my people; otherwise they shall listen to the things written about David and Solomon and continue committing whoredoms.”.../quote]

This doesn't sound like how the Lord would say something.

He does admit that, and I didn't edit it out either, but the point is how Jacob 2 is written and its grammar, can you see that? It isn't a book of mormon is true issue, but an issue of grammar, which is plain if you read it through again and set aside the bias (not accusing here, I promise) that exists from being told one tradition for so long.

I hope the guy never convinces you, he didn't convince me, God did entirely, and lead me to that reading after giving me a witness, as it helped me understand it even more plainly, and showed me also God is no respecter of persons (lead me to the understanding of someone who doesn't believe in the book of mormon - bless his heart).

I don't expect anyone to believe me, I have my own witness, I do however have the Lord telling me to share my witness and invite others to hear HIS voice on the matter. That is entirely up to each of us. But i promise you, it won't come until we repent of unbelief, we maybe dont' even recognize is there (I speak from personal experience).

Jacob 2 pro-polygamy interpretation comes from men in the church who lived polygamy. It is engrained in our heads from the time we hear it in church. Can you imagine if that was wrong? Holy Church Cow! I never questioned it, until I allowed the Lord to show me his perspective first on what we were asking him about (political issues, constitution, etc.,) our temporal awakeing, which he used to prepare us for our spiritual awakening journey we didn't know he was about to lead us on - as he leads us back to him, without man getting in His way, of His perfect work.

I have everything to loose in this and am no idiot to throw it away to the wind, Polygamy is man's error, and is more or less than the gospel.

I did read his reasoning behind the grammar, and I admit I'm not a grammar expert, but I still think that the message is clear the other way interpreted.

Can you tell us more about your revelation that polygamy was man's error? Actually, that is the reason I believe Joseph publicly denied living polygamy, because polygamy as defined by man is in error.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I'll use blue this time. Thanks for your thoughtful replies.

Am I understanding you right, that you believe a MAN who is a widower should not remarry at all? Even a young guy who looses his wife early on in their marriage, before they had any children?
cursed my ill-trained grammatics and vocab! My wife sat next to me and we laughed... quick background... I was worried about our first baby, and even 2nd, and kept asking my wife and others about the "mammogram" so we could know if it was a boy or girl... let's just say, Joseph had a 5th grade education, and I've had up to a 12th grade education... but for some reason, I feel the harder I study to be considered grammatically strong, I fail often.


What I mean was widows (female) not widowers (male), and to answer your question, as it still relates, I simply don't know, but I feel God sees it so differently, that Abraham's Hagar, or a widows or widowers new spouse in God's ways doesn't matter, unless it deals with sin directly, ie. adultery, which adultery is defined in scripture as a man putting away a wife for anything but fornication... So I believe God's plan is robust enough to allow such a marriage for sure, and such is between God and the couple.

You're right in your other point - sealings are what make us all family, but the marriage sealing is special in the fact that it is a covenant relationship designed to create life. Marriage is really about children. It is also about love, but as I explained in an earlier post, God is not concerned about us receiving love in this life. He does want us to feel HIS LOVE, but he knows that all his children will fail at loving each other perfectly. It isn't until we are tested and become sanctified through the power of the atonement that we can love perfectly, and that will enable us to really appreciate marriage relationships for the power to bring love and joy to our lives. So what does marriage matter in this life then, at least to God? It is all about CHILDREN.
beautifully said... are you a marriage counselor?
Sec. 132, says that among other things, the law Abraham and Sarah were to follow fulfilled the promises for posterity and eternal seed. The Lord says that from Hagar would come many people. We have the same reasoning behind polygamy in Joseph and Brigham's day. Was it hard and burdensome? Of course, but don't we covenant to lay down our own lives in necessary?
I'll admit that section 132 I have a hard time with, and no witness as of yet that God accepts that section - just like you said to me, THat doesn't sound like how the Lord speaks, it exactly what D&C 132 reads like to me on many parts... have you applied the same test you did to this other non-LDS guy with D&C 132, does that section sound entirely like the same Lord you know or that maybe someone (ie. Brigham) snuck in a few things of his own?

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I have everything to loose in this and am no idiot to throw it away to the wind, Polygamy is man's error, and is more or less than the gospel.

Forget Jacob. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, Soloman - another witness.

Yup, none of them were ever ever ever commanded to live polygamy, in fact each of their plural marriages lead to much sorrow, splitting of family, and nations - also it was unbelief (sara not believing the Lord giving his husband Hagar to raise seed up for her husband) that lead sara to give Hagar to her hubby, it was deceit that lead Jacob into polygamy, it was polygamy that lead soloman to idol worship and strange flesh, it was polygamy that I say gave David the mentality to even consider sinning with bathsheba, as he was used to pleasure maybe with so many wives...

None of those examples rewcox, give any semblance of any time God commanded them to practice polygamy, in fact, the ultimate and first example of God commanding monogamy was Adam and Eve, and if you recall from the other post, it was Cain's decedents that the Bible mentions were the first to take on multiple wives before the flood...

GOD NEVER COMMANDED POLYGAMY anywhere in the scriptures, including Jacob 2, nowhere, it is the contrary throughout scripture where he indeed commands men to take one wife and cherish her, including Christ's mission.

[Dash jones]

I've read all this before and this guy has not convinced me that he has the right interpretation. He even admits he doesn't believe the BofM to be true!

Putting it all together in a paraphrase, Jacob 30 actually means: “Because if I will raise up a righteous branch here in the Promised Land, I will govern my people; otherwise they shall listen to the things written about David and Solomon and continue committing whoredoms.”.../quote]

This doesn't sound like how the Lord would say something.

He does admit that, and I didn't edit it out either, but the point is how Jacob 2 is written and its grammar, can you see that? It isn't a book of mormon is true issue, but an issue of grammar, which is plain if you read it through again and set aside the bias (not accusing here, I promise) that exists from being told one tradition for so long.

I hope the guy never convinces you, he didn't convince me, God did entirely, and lead me to that reading after giving me a witness, as it helped me understand it even more plainly, and showed me also God is no respecter of persons (lead me to the understanding of someone who doesn't believe in the book of mormon - bless his heart).

I don't expect anyone to believe me, I have my own witness, I do however have the Lord telling me to share my witness and invite others to hear HIS voice on the matter. That is entirely up to each of us. But i promise you, it won't come until we repent of unbelief, we maybe dont' even recognize is there (I speak from personal experience).

Jacob 2 pro-polygamy interpretation comes from men in the church who lived polygamy. It is engrained in our heads from the time we hear it in church. Can you imagine if that was wrong? Holy Church Cow! I never questioned it, until I allowed the Lord to show me his perspective first on what we were asking him about (political issues, constitution, etc.,) our temporal awakeing, which he used to prepare us for our spiritual awakening journey we didn't know he was about to lead us on - as he leads us back to him, without man getting in His way, of His perfect work.

I have everything to loose in this and am no idiot to throw it away to the wind, Polygamy is man's error, and is more or less than the gospel.

I wrote about Jacob 2 previously in another thread (you can look that up for the full explanation).. IF you want to disagree with the Bible, feel free too, but we know in the bible that the Lord has condoned it in the Old Testament (to the point of actually GIVING wives). Jacob 2 falls under the time of the Old Testament and it's authority.

If it were the New Testament time period, I might agree with you, but as you are countering the Bible and LDS Mormonism (but NOT RLDS, ironically) in regards to what the LDS church teaches (but that does NOT include ALL Mormons, just the majority of the LDS church) I'd say, read the bible.

Polygamy is NOT man's error as per the Old Testament. It is a SIN as per the NEW Testament.

The pro-polygamy argument from the Bible does NOT come from Jacob 2 (though the pro-polygamy argument of Jacob 2 might be in agreement with the bible), it comes from the Lord's prophet specifically condoning polygamy and the wives the Lord has given to someone.

The New Testament condemns it (in non-LDS interpretations at least). IF Jacob 2 supposedly came AFTER the time of the Savior, it could be seen in parallel, but as it was prior to that....

Anyways, I digress...read the posting I made elsewhere...

[EdGoble]

EDITED TO BE NICER.....

Pondering on the topic that I feel is one that we indeed must not be lukewarm on, lest we be spewed out for being not hot or cold, I continue to get the feeling that from God's perspective, who is IN ALL THINGS and THROUGH ALL THINGS (See D&C 88, esp. vs. 41) - polygamy is a man-made version of a spiritual reality mere mortal man hasn't a clue about nor can he until he reaches even unto God through Christ.

If God is IN ALL THINGS and THROUGH ALL THINGS, then does he not already have all our wives as his own? Or the opposite would be true, if we are to have all the father hath, then won't we eventually, through Christ's grace, be IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL THINGS - having a perfect knowledge, via the light that brings all truth to a God, we would be living a "polygamous" life being in each other and each other's wives?

If we are in and through all things (a beautiful eternal concept that if pondered can bring amazing mysteries and revelations to ones heart via the Spirit, sacred insights that I don't feel should be shared here or with most people) - why in the world would we need more than one wife in the hereafter? Wouldn't we be content that we would be one with the Father & the Son, such that he would know our joy (with our eternal spouse) and we would know his joy (with His eternal spouse) without ever having to physically be with them?

I am looking for thoughtful insights along the same line of thought. Polygamy is not condemned by the Lord in word specifically (just the practices of carnal lusts, which indeed are part of polygamy) because polygamy is a man made erroneous byword, a concept that is so barbarically mortal it is most likely laughable to exalted beings, or so unholy that it is dropped from exalted vocab, or the very topic is unnecessary in Heaven's politics if you will, with beings who have all, are in and through all, including all women and men.

If we are to be as He is, one with Christ and God, in and through all things, why in Heaven (pun intended) would polygamy even exist, in fact it seems funny to think about once you ponder upon the reality that God is already in and through all our spouses and ourselves, which makes sense why he would not want to dwell in unholy (speaking specifically of the carnal natural man of lust, and maybe why marriage and procreation will not continue with most of His children after this life) temples (us) or marriages.

Polygamy would be a word that maybe doesn't exist in heaven with God, because it is unnecessary if one is exalted in the highest degree of Glory, unnecessary to those who are in and through all things with their God, and His Christ, an exalted monogamous couple who will go wherever they please and already have all the wives or husbands they want as they are in and through them all already, but never need to have more than one spouse by their side because they already have all the father hath, and need not any more than the pattern of Adam and Eve, for they already are in and through all the wives or husbands that could exist, enjoying the joy of other "Gods" without ever having to be physically there, for God is everywhere via the light we have yet to comprehend, being in and through it all.

So, is the very word and deeds of polygamy simply man's weak erroneous attempt to put a word on what the Gods might call, being in and through all things via the highest degrees of glory in Heaven, only available to monogamous couples sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise by God himself?

The claim that multiple wives automatically equals lust, while only one wife means non-lust, makes no sense at all to me. Sorry. Because, to have any wife at all in any kind of marriage must mean lust, according to your logic if we take it to its conclusion, because desire surely must exist between husband and wife, normally speaking, and there is no difference between having it for one woman than for another. Desiring more than one woman is desire, just as desiring only one woman is desire. Desire, by definition is not lust. Lust is unlawful desire. Desire can be lawful.

Now, there is no difference between desire in either case. Desire is desire is desire. One is lawful in the present day. One is not. Therefore, the problem is not desire. The problem is unlawful desire. And therefore, in a state where it is lawful to desire more than one woman, it is lawful. When we are in a state where the law designates that it is only lawful to desire only one woman, then that desire is lawful.

We have no idea what will be required of us to be exalted, only that we know that to make it there, we must be sealed to one at the very least, because of the current state of law.

[rewcox]

You're wrong BofM. You can say what you want. You should discuss with Dash.

I have everything to loose in this and am no idiot to throw it away to the wind, Polygamy is man's error, and is more or less than the gospel.

Forget Jacob. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, Soloman - another witness.

Yup, none of them were ever ever ever commanded to live polygamy, in fact each of their plural marriages lead to much sorrow, splitting of family, and nations - also it was unbelief (sara not believing the Lord giving his husband Hagar to raise seed up for her husband) that lead sara to give Hagar to her hubby, it was deceit that lead Jacob into polygamy, it was polygamy that lead soloman to idol worship and strange flesh, it was polygamy that I say gave David the mentality to even consider sinning with bathsheba, as he was used to pleasure maybe with so many wives...

None of those examples rewcox, give any semblance of any time God commanded them to practice polygamy, in fact, the ultimate and first example of God commanding monogamy was Adam and Eve, and if you recall from the other post, it was Cain's decedents that the Bible mentions were the first to take on multiple wives before the flood...

GOD NEVER COMMANDED POLYGAMY anywhere in the scriptures, including Jacob 2, nowhere, it is the contrary throughout scripture where he indeed commands men to take one wife and cherish her, including Christ's mission.

[Dash jones]

I have everything to loose in this and am no idiot to throw it away to the wind, Polygamy is man's error, and is more or less than the gospel.

Forget Jacob. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, Soloman - another witness.

Yup, none of them were ever ever ever commanded to live polygamy, in fact each of their plural marriages lead to much sorrow, splitting of family, and nations - also it was unbelief (sara not believing the Lord giving his husband Hagar to raise seed up for her husband) that lead sara to give Hagar to her hubby, it was deceit that lead Jacob into polygamy, it was polygamy that lead soloman to idol worship and strange flesh, it was polygamy that I say gave David the mentality to even consider sinning with bathsheba, as he was used to pleasure maybe with so many wives...

None of those examples rewcox, give any semblance of any time God commanded them to practice polygamy, in fact, the ultimate and first example of God commanding monogamy was Adam and Eve, and if you recall from the other post, it was Cain's decedents that the Bible mentions were the first to take on multiple wives before the flood...

GOD NEVER COMMANDED POLYGAMY anywhere in the scriptures, including Jacob 2, nowhere, it is the contrary throughout scripture where he indeed commands men to take one wife and cherish her, including Christ's mission.

Read the bible. You are actually WRONG on that statement.

In fact, the bible actually differentiates it specifically in David's case of where he sinned, and it's because the Lord actually GAVE David his wives. It doesn't say allow, it doesn't say, ignored, it says GAVE. David's sin was in that he took a wife that was NOT given to him by the Lord (and it also led him to the greater sin of shedding innocent blood). This is the difference between the one David sinned with vs. those who he did NOT sin with.

In the bible it typically specifies those who were NOT given to them by the Lord, for example with Solomon he had strange wives (who also led him onto even more sin in the worship of idols).

In Abraham, WE do not know regarding the Lord's relationship in that, but the reasons for WHY Hagar's son was cast out should be realized as one similar to that of Reuben vs. Judah. We do know even more that Abraham had more than what is named in the Old Testament, as it mentions he sent away his concubines later on.

Moses himself is thought to have been a polygamist (though there is also the argument that his first wife died and then he remarried, there is no proof of that, but that is a logical opinion of some)...however, Moses wrote the LAWS of the LORD in regards to Polygamy showing that in the OT at least, the Lord approved of it legally and made a course for it in his Law of the OLD Testament (as opposed to that of the New).

I think there are over 30 examples of polygamy being practiced in the Old Testament. That's a LOT of examples. Some are good, some are evil, but one thing it shows is that Polygamy as per the time of Jacob was not necessarily evil as people interpret Jacob as saying (unless of course they say that the BoM is false as it contradicts the bible), but that there are laws which regulate it's proper time and place as opposed to simply doing it as apparently they were in Jacob.

[Sarah]

I'll use blue this time. Thanks for your thoughtful replies.

Am I understanding you right, that you believe a MAN who is a widower should not remarry at all? Even a young guy who looses his wife early on in their marriage, before they had any children?
cursed my ill-trained grammatics and vocab! My wife sat next to me and we laughed... quick background... I was worried about our first baby, and even 2nd, and kept asking my wife and others about the "mammogram" so we could know if it was a boy or girl... let's just say, Joseph had a 5th grade education, and I've had up to a 12th grade education... but for some reason, I feel the harder I study to be considered grammatically strong, I fail often.


What I mean was widows (female) not widowers (male), and to answer your question, as it still relates, I simply don't know, but I feel God sees it so differently, that Abraham's Hagar, or a widows or widowers new spouse in God's ways doesn't matter, unless it deals with sin directly, ie. adultery, which adultery is defined in scripture as a man putting away a wife for anything but fornication... So I believe God's plan is robust enough to allow such a marriage for sure, and such is between God and the couple.

You're right in your other point - sealings are what make us all family, but the marriage sealing is special in the fact that it is a covenant relationship designed to create life. Marriage is really about children. It is also about love, but as I explained in an earlier post, God is not concerned about us receiving love in this life. He does want us to feel HIS LOVE, but he knows that all his children will fail at loving each other perfectly. It isn't until we are tested and become sanctified through the power of the atonement that we can love perfectly, and that will enable us to really appreciate marriage relationships for the power to bring love and joy to our lives. So what does marriage matter in this life then, at least to God? It is all about CHILDREN.
beautifully said... are you a marriage counselor?
Sec. 132, says that among other things, the law Abraham and Sarah were to follow fulfilled the promises for posterity and eternal seed. The Lord says that from Hagar would come many people. We have the same reasoning behind polygamy in Joseph and Brigham's day. Was it hard and burdensome? Of course, but don't we covenant to lay down our own lives in necessary?
I'll admit that section 132 I have a hard time with, and no witness as of yet that God accepts that section - just like you said to me, THat doesn't sound like how the Lord speaks, it exactly what D&C 132 reads like to me on many parts... have you applied the same test you did to this other non-LDS guy with D&C 132, does that section sound entirely like the same Lord you know or that maybe someone (ie. Brigham) snuck in a few things of his own?

I do have a testimony of sec. 132, in fact, the reason my testimony of plural marriage is so strong is because I had a powerful dream and spiritual impression that directed me to a verse in sec. 132. This dream came in answer to a silent prayer offered in the middle of the night. I had been dreaming, and then awoke in the middle of the night. My dreams led me to say a prayer silently as I lay there. I asked for something specific. I fell back asleep, and then continued to dream and the dream was a direct answer to my request. But it went further, and I was given information about people in my life that only God would know, and then I was led to sec. 132. So yes, I have a sure testimony that it is true. Hopefully the Lord will excuse my boldness in sharing my pearls, but one of my missions in life that I found out ages ago before I even cared about the subject, was that I was to teach about marriage, or the importance of being sealed. So, no I am not a marriage counselor, but I have learned enough in the last few years that if I ever had to go back to work, I think I might consider that profession. As you can tell, I sure like talking about it.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I did read his reasoning behind the grammar, and I admit I'm not a grammar expert, but I still think that the message is clear the other way interpreted.

Can you tell us more about your revelation that polygamy was man's error? Actually, that is the reason I believe Joseph publicly denied living polygamy, because polygamy as defined by man is in error.

I just have to first say how funnily ironic it would be if it all was grammatical errors!!! from what you said here, "Actually, that is the reason I believe Joseph publicly denied living polygamy, because polygamy as defined by man is in error." woah... just found it funny to think if it was all for grammaticks... making the point in the Book of Mormon more acute in that the civilization without the scriptures had their languages become corrupted...

That very issue (grammatical errors) is how I see the issue with the book of Abraham and Papyri currently, as I'm still seeking a witness from God on those books which I love love love to read through (space and science, along side D&C 88!!! a boy's dream come true)... see this answer from someone I do respect for such insights (viewtopic.php?t=40181#p650512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I share that ^^^ to help answer your question as to my witness from God about polygamy being man's error. God works in patterns with us so we are not deceived, I'm sure each of us has patterns we recognize come from God, to know with assurance God is working with us providing the pathway to answering us. From what I studied on the book of Abraham, it seems that Joseph was completely wrong on it, until I prayed and asked God about it with my initial answer and decision, to which he prompted me to ask on this LDSFF and now I'm considering some beautiful insights the spirit could only give me once it (The spirit) had a foundation of knowledge I was willing to consider (the post viewtopic.php?t=40181#p650512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) which foundation of knowledge countered what I had studied on the other side, to in the end, expect the same pattern, where God will test my faith and how much I've been heeding his voice over the scholars on any side of the "debate".

The pattern for me is just what occurred with my seeking God's perspective on the book of Abraham after reading both sides of the story in regards to polygamy. Simply it is so child like and so plain, that it is exactly as Nephi states it is, plain to undersand, even as if I was a child when I understood it finally - accompanied by more than just a warm fuzzy, but a sanctifying burning and cleansing experience where I know without a doubt something is true and I have been given a witness of it, a reward and fruit so sweet for diligently seeking some answer. And such a witness has been so far, accompanied by unexpected, un-conjured up (never thought of it) dreams or visions that are sacred, powerful, and motivating to back up the witness and better understand God's purposes and designs than i was capable of before seeking that witness diligently.

Just to further illustrate how my witness came, It is like asking a question as follows:

God, is polygamy right?

How can God give one a full sanctifying burning witness with such an open ended, non specific question? Same as, God, is polygamy wrong? I believe he answers those questions if we are sincere, but it is answered with patterns of him giving you information to have you study it out, even both sides of the issue (which is why it is dangerous to not consider anything but what is officially approved of the brethren or men) so you can then make a decision based on your ability to heed the voice of truth, and take that diligently sought decision to him, which he can then answer you.

So on we go.

God, did you command Joseph Smith to live polygamy?

That is a more specific question, and built upon by spirit-guided study of both sides of the issue, coupled with diligent faith and seeking, along with of course opposition (ie. Joseph in the sacred grove)... To then, in God's beautiful pattern of working with you, he sets it up again and again where he shows you what you have studied in a real life experience (that is one pattern I feel we all can look for when we want to know if he is answering us) - his pattern, His work, His timing, His way, almost always he finally answers me and I believe all of us through an actual real exeprience with another son or daughter of his, where he will challenge you and the decision he has been leading you towards, he will test your faith by putting it to the test in helping someone other soul struggling in the same, to confirm your decision or invite you to study it out more.

So, that is my summary of how I got my witness of God, that Polygamy as taught and blamed on Joseph, and furthermore taught today that it will someday be required is NOT of God, and is man's erroneous attempt, and is MAN DOING THINGS HIS OWN WAY, which is one reason so far, I exist, raised up by the Lord as far as his church is concerned, to discern when man, leaders, rulers, attempt to do things their own way, and Brigham Young, is just that, oft inspired, absolutely, as much as any man God loves without respect to persons, - but as a young naive boy, without a clue to much of anything related to polygamy let alone life, as childish as a child could be, plain and pleased to just sit there and smile and eat ice cream if I could dare take it from a neighbor (being uber shy), God told me often in my youth, at the very quote, video, or story related to Brigham, that something was amiss, and I can specifically point to exact teachings, talks, church videos growing up, and feeling the same pattern and feeling with Brigham every single time, without a clue as to why back then, other than being told that I was unworthy, and what I experienced was not of God... to find out now, a little more close to God, that it was a gift, to discern when men in authority are attempting to do things their own way.

So there you have my heartfelt response to your question.

I have a witness from God that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy as we are taught and outlines by the scholars, but fought it in righteousness, and I have been lead to prophecy in the spirit of prophecy (which I sought for following the pattern of the sons of Mosiah) for the first time ever in my life in regards to that witness, a scary but fulfilling spiritual experience (Scary because I'm of a personality to take to heart what other say about me and my motives), available to us all (spirit of prophecy) ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38780#p609367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ).

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Anyways, I digress...read the posting I made elsewhere...

Thanks... I think... a link would be nice, can't find it on simple search, soooo many posts on polygamy here on this LDSFF

[Dash jones]

Anyways, I digress...read the posting I made elsewhere...

Thanks... I think... a link would be nice, can't find it on simple search, soooo many posts on polygamy here on this LDSFF

Here's the primary one and the simplest explanation

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40448&p=658189#p658189" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One thing I should add, is that one remark about Solomon is that instead of adding wives as per the Lord, he multiplied his wives (expressely as he shouldn't do).

Also, Reading of the Law of Moses is very enlightening in regards to polygamy in the OLD Testament. It shows it was part of the compact (or covenant) between the Lord, his laws, and his chosen people.

NOTE from a Catholic viewpoint (NOT LDS), this was done away with in the New Testament (as old things were fulfilled and done away with, hence no more animal sacrifice and other items) and the new ideals were implemented (One man and One wife, celibacy as the highest ideal...etc).

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Anyways, I digress...read the posting I made elsewhere...

Thanks... I think... a link would be nice, can't find it on simple search, soooo many posts on polygamy here on this LDSFF

Here's the primary one and the simplest explanation

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40448&p=658189#p658189" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One thing I should add, is that one remark about Solomon is that instead of adding wives as per the Lord, he multiplied his wives (expressely as he shouldn't do).

Also, Reading of the Law of Moses is very enlightening in regards to polygamy in the OLD Testament. It shows it was part of the compact (or covenant) between the Lord, his laws, and his chosen people.

NOTE from a Catholic viewpoint (NOT LDS), this was done away with in the New Testament (as old things were fulfilled and done away with, hence no more animal sacrifice and other items) and the new ideals were implemented (One man and One wife, celibacy as the highest ideal...etc).

Thanks for the link, have it in my "to read, when kids are in bed list"...

As to the law of moses, it wasn't the commandments, nor was it God's command. Are we open to the idea that God ultimately gives us what we want most or we become what we think of most (Elder Scott seemed to use those phrases often in his message), and in the case of the Law of Moses, was that not the lesser "law"? and if the lesser law, and if adding wives or the law of Sarah was part of the lesser law, then that only supports that God never commanded polygamy, nor does he want us to have it, just gives his OCD children what they want most to their own devices and lusts, and again in that case it was a lesser law, rather than the higher law of Jehovah which is more than maybe we understand because, yet again, the pattern continues with Brigham, adding wives unto himself, a lesser sphere of existence compared to the Kingdom Joseph attempted and was murdered trying to help setup.

[Sarah]

I did read his reasoning behind the grammar, and I admit I'm not a grammar expert, but I still think that the message is clear the other way interpreted.

Can you tell us more about your revelation that polygamy was man's error? Actually, that is the reason I believe Joseph publicly denied living polygamy, because polygamy as defined by man is in error.

I just have to first say how funnily ironic it would be if it all was grammatical errors!!! from what you said here, "Actually, that is the reason I believe Joseph publicly denied living polygamy, because polygamy as defined by man is in error." woah... just found it funny to think if it was all for grammaticks... making the point in the Book of Mormon more acute in that the civilization without the scriptures had their languages become corrupted...

That very issue (grammatical errors) is how I see the issue with the book of Abraham and Papyri currently, as I'm still seeking a witness from God on those books which I love love love to read through (space and science, along side D&C 88!!! a boy's dream come true)... see this answer from someone I do respect for such insights (viewtopic.php?t=40181#p650512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I share that ^^^ to help answer your question as to my witness from God about polygamy being man's error. God works in patterns with us so we are not deceived, I'm sure each of us has patterns we recognize come from God, to know with assurance God is working with us providing the pathway to answering us. From what I studied on the book of Abraham, it seems that Joseph was completely wrong on it, until I prayed and asked God about it with my initial answer and decision, to which he prompted me to ask on this LDSFF and now I'm considering some beautiful insights the spirit could only give me once it (The spirit) had a foundation of knowledge I was willing to consider (the post viewtopic.php?t=40181#p650512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) which foundation of knowledge countered what I had studied on the other side, to in the end, expect the same pattern, where God will test my faith and how much I've been heeding his voice over the scholars on any side of the "debate".

The pattern for me is just what occurred with my seeking God's perspective on the book of Abraham after reading both sides of the story in regards to polygamy. Simply it is so child like and so plain, that it is exactly as Nephi states it is, plain to undersand, even as if I was a child when I understood it finally - accompanied by more than just a warm fuzzy, but a sanctifying burning and cleansing experience where I know without a doubt something is true and I have been given a witness of it, a reward and fruit so sweet for diligently seeking some answer. And such a witness has been so far, accompanied by unexpected, un-conjured up (never thought of it) dreams or visions that are sacred, powerful, and motivating to back up the witness and better understand God's purposes and designs than i was capable of before seeking that witness diligently.

Just to further illustrate how my witness came, It is like asking a question as follows:

God, is polygamy right?

How can God give one a full sanctifying burning witness with such an open ended, non specific question? Same as, God, is polygamy wrong? I believe he answers those questions if we are sincere, but it is answered with patterns of him giving you information to have you study it out, even both sides of the issue (which is why it is dangerous to not consider anything but what is officially approved of the brethren or men) so you can then make a decision based on your ability to heed the voice of truth, and take that diligently sought decision to him, which he can then answer you.

So on we go.

God, did you command Joseph Smith to live polygamy?

That is a more specific question, and built upon by spirit-guided study of both sides of the issue, coupled with diligent faith and seeking, along with of course opposition (ie. Joseph in the sacred grove)... To then, in God's beautiful pattern of working with you, he sets it up again and again where he shows you what you have studied in a real life experience (that is one pattern I feel we all can look for when we want to know if he is answering us) - his pattern, His work, His timing, His way, almost always he finally answers me and I believe all of us through an actual real exeprience with another son or daughter of his, where he will challenge you and the decision he has been leading you towards, he will test your faith by putting it to the test in helping someone other soul struggling in the same, to confirm your decision or invite you to study it out more.

So, that is my summary of how I got my witness of God, that Polygamy as taught and blamed on Joseph, and furthermore taught today that it will someday be required is NOT of God, and is man's erroneous attempt, and is MAN DOING THINGS HIS OWN WAY, which is one reason so far, I exist, raised up by the Lord as far as his church is concerned, to discern when man, leaders, rulers, attempt to do things their own way, and Brigham Young, is just that, oft inspired, absolutely, as much as any man God loves without respect to persons, - but as a young naive boy, without a clue to much of anything related to polygamy let alone life, as childish as a child could be, plain and pleased to just sit there and smile and eat ice cream if I could dare take it from a neighbor (being uber shy), God told me often in my youth, at the very quote, video, or story related to Brigham, that something was amiss, and I can specifically point to exact teachings, talks, church videos growing up, and feeling the same pattern and feeling with Brigham every single time, without a clue as to why back then, other than being told that I was unworthy, and what I experienced was not of God... to find out now, a little more close to God, that it was a gift, to discern when men in authority are attempting to do things their own way.

So there you have my heartfelt response to your question.

I have a witness from God that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy as we are taught and outlines by the scholars, but fought it in righteousness, and I have been lead to prophecy in the spirit of prophecy (which I sought for following the pattern of the sons of Mosiah) for the first time ever in my life in regards to that witness, a scary but fulfilling spiritual experience (Scary because I'm of a personality to take to heart what other say about me and my motives), available to us all (spirit of prophecy) ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38780#p609367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ).

Well, I appreciate your answer. It was kind of vague. Sounds like you had someone else in your life - wife perhaps - help you come to this revelation? I think you are right about one thing - God gives us what we want. He is not going to force us to believe something we don't want to believe. So if you ask him a question like that, and God knows you don't want to believe in polygamy, he is going to answer you in a way so that you can interpret it the way you'd like to. I've had a personal experience with this happening with my husband and I. We can both receive a revelation from God that is true, but because of how we want to interpret his answer, it leaves us to believing however we want.

The problem also lies in how we are defining words in our own minds. In your mind you might be thinking polygamy equals many wives with one husband, and perhaps God showed Joseph something different.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Well, I appreciate your answer. It was kind of vague. Sounds like you had someone else in your life - wife perhaps - help you come to this revelation? I think you are right about one thing - God gives us what we want. He is not going to force us to believe something we don't want to believe. So if you ask him a question like that, and God knows you don't want to believe in polygamy, he is going to answer you in a way so that you can interpret it the way you'd like to. I've had a personal experience with this happening with my husband and I. We can both receive a revelation from God that is true, but because of how we want to interpret his answer, it leaves us to believing however we want.

The problem also lies in how we are defining words in our own minds. In your mind you might be thinking polygamy equals many wives with one husband, and perhaps God showed Joseph something different.

I hope vague is due to either God not wanting you to understand it from me for whatever reason, or it was all I could get out for whatever reason in God.

FYI - I was a polygamy believer only because I believed the history taught in the church. I didn't agree with it then, but never fought it, nor thought to seek a witness on the contrary or for it, much like others. I approached it wanting a witness no matter the side. That was my approach.

I am open to God's ways, I just have a witness that polygamy as taught and lived by Brigham was not of God - whatever that is for, in God's purposes in my life, I guess I have yet to see, but feel strongly we will all see it soon enough as Christ cleanses his own house and raises up sons and daughters who heed his voice over all and stand up and witness for him, just as is the pattern throughout the scriptures, witnesses, that sadly seem very alone in their witness, very outcasted, and often hated by the very members of the church, an irony I don' t know that many see, I sure didn't as a naive member back in the day.

[Dash jones]

Do you want the Catholic answer, or what I perceive to be the historic LDS Mormon answer? Or the one which you seem to lean towards which is more the traditional (though now disavowed) views of the RLDS church (now Community of Christ) which seem to go more towards your views?

When you refer to the lesser law, instead of the Old and New covenants, I imagine you are wanting more of a Mormon position. In that instance, the Law of Moses indeed DOES cover polygamy. It is indeed the Lesser law. That should also be the Law which the people in the Book of Mormon were under until the coming of Christ to the Americas.

There are ideas that the Nephites had possession of the Lower Law, and that they had access to the Melchizedek priesthood. However, we also know that they were still subject to the Law of Moses and that Abinadi recalls this to their memories in how he starts to recite it to them.

It would be odd that Jacob would therefore speak directly counter to the Law of Moses. In Mormon speak, it is more likely that he may have had a HIGHER understanding of it, rather than the blatant idea of how the Mosiac law would work. IN that light, what I stated would be true, polygamy IS allowable as long as it was condoned by the LORD. In the case of the Nephites, it was NOT. In the case of modern day and Mormons, it is NOT.

It WAS the lower law, made so that the weak could follow it. Hence divorce (and how many Mormons have been divorced as directly opposing the higher law) and other things were allowed within it. Most of the world (and in fact Mormons themselves) still follow this lower law, as can be seen in all areas such as divorce, how they treat each other, pursuing riches and power, putting those with riches INTO power, and all sorts of other items which were allowable under the Lower Law, were done away with in the Higher law.

You are also correct that it is perhaps that the Lord may allow what we want most...though it should be noted NEVER if it is against his laws. If it doesn't violate a law of his, he at times have allowed courses of action even if he did not advise it.

This is important though, because he ONLY allows things that are not directly against his laws. If they are against his laws he strictly forbids it, if they are not against the laws, but against his advice, he allows it. Typically this applies more towards temporal rather than eternal ideas.

However, do NOT deceive yourself. The Law of Moses WAS God's command and the Lord's command. They were very specific (far more than the New Testament) and very detailed. Polygamy was in these covenants and commands. I do NOT think this was Moses trying to ask for something contrary to the thoughts of the Lord. From this law we get what some call the basis of all Western Legalities, that of the Ten Commandments.

As for Mormon definitions, it IS the lesser law. Now, in regards to marriage, Catholics and Mormons have a VERY different understanding (unless you wish to be celibate as your ideal!). I am going to go from an LDS perspective as gotten from the readings of their apostles and prophets.

the Law of Moses allows Polygamy...but what of that of those who had more than the Aaronic Priesthood and had the Melchizedek Priesthood. WE turn to Abraham. Abraham had the Melchizedek Priesthood and from that could have accepted certain things. AS per what is presented in the D&C, we also see that he was given his second wife, from his first.

The problem that arises then, is NOT that of the second wife, but that of having inheritance. Legally, Ishmael is the Oldest son, his is the inheritance. However, for Sarah, being the first wife, this is probably especially hard, especially since the inheritance in theory was promised to her seed (which was the reason she offered the handmaid in the first place!) Hence, in regards to inheritance, either Ishamael receives it, or he must be banished. In that light, he is gone, but ONLY after Abraham (at least in some Jewish scholar's writings) that Ishmael himself will become a great kingdom and be preserved (hence Abraham does not need to fear for his son or his safety nor the inheritance).

Of interest in some older types of translations,for instance, the Jewish midrashim, Keturah is Hagar...which though not canon, could imply that Hagar was not actually completely abandoned. Furthermore, the connection to the sons of Keturah and their righteousness is compounded in the wives of Moses (I believe if I remember correctly) and others.

But that is the side note. What it means is that Polygamy in the OLD Testament times was a part of the Law of Moses. However, it's execution in that regard differs from time to time and is not AS clear as other ideas. It is possible then, that Jacob had a fuller knowledge of this idea, and stealing from the thoughts of David and Solomon, emphasized them as they were a prime example of how the Lord condones it verses when he does not (as David is the best example of what was sin, and what was not under the law of Moses in regards to Polygamy).

In the New Testament, (as per LDS Mormon beliefs, not the Catholic per se) the New law did NOT do away with the OLD Law of Moses. It was simply a HIGHER law. All the Law of Moses is STILL in effect, it just has a higher manifestation of the principles. Instead of thou shalt not commit adultery it is thou shalt not even look upon another to lust after them. Instead of Thou shalt not Kill, it is thou shalt not call thy brother Raca.

It does not do away with the old principles, it simply magnifies them.

In that, it doesn't specifically forbid polygamy, but it does stress an ideal of being devoted to your wife or husband (Paul repeatedly stresses this). the idea that polygamy can be condoned by the Lord (Corinthians 7:10-11) exists, but it also seems the typical situation is one man and woman. The exception could be as when the Lord commands. In addition, the Lord can also command things which are hard (as in Abraham to sacrifice Issac) or that we allow things (such as Abraham acquiescing to Sarah's demands...but the Lord ensuring him that he would care for Ishmael).

(also note, that the Catholic ideas is that there is a section that specifically forbids polygamy, and that the ideal idea of marriage is seen more with Adam and Eve, who only had one spouse as opposed to multiples).