Polygamy - the unnecessary distraction of Carnal mans attempt to define God being in and through all things?

[Sarah]

We live in a culture that has taught us that anything unfair is "wrong." So of course, if you look at polygamy and how it is unfair to women, then it would be immoral in someone's eyes.

Many people on the left who want freedom from traditional morality want law to enforce their version of morality which is to create a world where things are fair. So they fight for socialistic income distribution. The Lord has not made it his goal to create equality and fairness in this life. That will all be taken care of in the next. So, I believe however the Order of Marriage is in heaven, it will be fair and equal for both sexes. But inequalities are part of our testing here on earth. The poor and the rich, the slave and the slave owner, the husband and the wife, all have to face inequalities and are tested. One side usually enjoys more freedom than the other. Those on one side must learn to forgive and endure, and they will be recompensed, and those who had dominion over others are being tested to see if they can love the way Christ loves.

I actually think the OP is on to something. I believe men and women will all have multiple spouses (eternal lives), but now is the time for men through the priesthood to bless women and enable them to gain eternal live. Imagine if you took sex out of marriage. Would you have a problem of sharing your spouse. Now, I don't think sex will be taken out of marriage necessarily, but I think the way we think about it will be so much different. We will all be one big family.

So, polygamy is unfair, I'll agree with that. It is the reality of multiple woman having to share the attention of one man, vs. a man receiving the attention of many women. But we have to admit that many things that are approved of God are unfair/unequal, and no doubt some people must bear more grief and sorrow in this world than others.

Just to make clear, by no means does my OP mean anything close to having more than one spouse, as in my limited man-view, that would be entirely unnecessary and is the creation of man, whose ways are indeed not God's ways.

Yes, I should have clarified. I didn't mean to imply that that was what you were saying. I think your point about believing in monogamy only in heaven came across, and I realize I'm the only one around that has voiced this different point of view. When I said I thought you were on to something I meant the part about the Father, and all of us, being in and through all things, having all that the Father hath etc. To me that is a manifestation of living the Law of Consecration and having all things in common. I actually am puzzled how most here on this forum who oppose the thought of plural marriage in heaven can not see how that principle could apply to marriage also. We are all too possessive I guess. Maybe it's because I know my Dad loves both his wives he is sealed to - my mom, and his new wife, and I know my Dad and how pure his love and motives are. He really does love and cherish them both and deserves to continue his Kingdom with each of them.

Thanks for clarifying as well. That is very indeed puzzling. A man who has a wife pass away, and then marries anew. Something I pray often about but don't understand either. Again, God's ways are higher than mans ways... is where I am left to ponder on this side topic.

Here is what bothers me most about that topic, not trying to insinuate anything but seeking truth in the matter.

SCENARIO 1
My dad, is on his third temple marriage (my mom, 2nd wife didn't work out, and now 3rd wife working out great for years now). All those marriages are approved (has to be) by the 1st presidency, even with my mom (his first wife) writing a heart felt letter about his unrepeated of abuse to her per her right to do so.

According to scripture, my dad has married two other women who were also once married, put away my mom (not for fornication) and therefor is committing adultery according to the scriptures, am I mistaken in this? I lean towards his ignorance in this because he is still like a teenage boy in my view in understanding marriage and relationships, and has some maturing he is working through, which can be pointed to an upbringing that wasn't all roses either.

SCENARIO 2
Elder Scott, period. I don't know about many others, but there is a uniqueness with Elder Scott and his marriage and how the spirit has communicated to me personally of the kind of love that exists with he and his one wife, including the veil being thin enough that she let him know to not remarry - so there is a sacredness there, something I felt ever so powerfully coming home from my mission where I met with Elder Scott, and watched the movie, The Other Side of Heaven, which had a feel of a child like innocence that to this day, if I ponder upon it, it brings my heart to a sacred space that transcends this world.

Elder Scott is the ONLY one of the brethren who I have ever heard say that he and his wife (he spoke this while his wife had passed on for some time) had ecstasy of joy in their intimacy and marriage, ecstasy that transcends this world and what the world understand about intimacy, because of virtue. He used the word ecstasy to describe his spiritual bond with his wife. I don't know anyone else who has shared such other than him, and I believe him because I feel it powerfully.

SCENARIO 3
A man takes a 2nd wife after first passed on (like your dad), a woman who had never been married before, and loves her tenderly. I have a hard time with this, because the consent of the first wife is absent, either because she doesn't care, it is only a mortal issue, the man hasn't the spiritual sensitivity to seek his first wife's consent, or she came back and told him to go ahead? I can't judge anyone I guess in this, although I have said some things about Elder Nelsen taking a wife many years the younger... but even that bothers me because we don't know of the consent from the first, and from what I can discern, I don't feel such was sought for, but can't judge that for sure.

Any thoughts to those three scenarios? Scriptural basis against my analysis of scenario 2 and adultery? This is serious business according to scripture, and it feels like mankind, (man pun intended) treats it lightly enough that they seek not permission from God or previous spouses but go forward because some other "men" (key in the gender here) in authority approved of it (counsel with fellow man and trusting in the arm of flesh seems to be the reason for polygamy in my heart's speaking to me, and I wonder if there isn't false traditions in remarrying because of trusting also in man's authority and counsel).

I think we need to look at marriage and sealings as not just about the blessings we will receive from the union, but how we can enter marriage with the intent to help another, and lift another, even in his or her imperfect/unbalanced state. I don't know enough about your parents to be the judge, but the fact remains that the third wife now has the chance to make a sacred covenant with God despite your Dad's questionable worthiness status. And really, aren't we all guilty of not being a perfect wife/husband? Doesn't every husband and wife(mother) exercise some unrighteous dominion? So like all other covenants, these earth-life sealings are conditional upon righteousness. But that sealing covenant is tied to God first and foremost, so even if your spouse fouls up, you will be blessed to receive all the promised blessings. For this reason, it makes sense for women to receive the opportunity to be sealed, even if is to an imperfect husband who already has a wife. The husbands are the one's who can offer the gift of marriage. Because they offer marriage, it makes sense that they are accountable to offer the gift of exaltation to every woman.

As for Elder Scott, I don't think it is our place to assume what his reasons were for not marrying again. In fact, it might be that part of his mission included testifying of the perfect love he shared with his wife to all of us. Yes, I agree that there are unions that have this ecstasy of such spiritual oneness and perfect love that they were always eternal, even from before this mortal life. I do believe we had relationships before this life of some sort, and we were naturally drawn to some or one more than others. That is why part of my belief and understanding is that even though plural marriage is an eternal principle, and we all might be married to more than one, there will be those who we feel more a connection and kindred feeling towards than perhaps others. That doesn't mean we can't love another perfectly and help them in their progression. My Dad, even though I know he loves his second wife, misses the kind of relationship he had with my mother. My mom was super easy-going and was a real pleaser. This woman is different. She is more opinionated about what she wants and feels and I think it is good for my dad in some ways. She is stretching him. That's what marrying different personalities will do to us. It will stretch us. We will develop different traits by partnering and working together with another. I really don't know, if all this is true, but that is what I'm inclined to believe at the moment based on personal revelation and from clues we find in the scriptures, temple, and words from the prophets.

As for the idea that it is wrong to remarry if the wife hasn't given consent, I really don't know if that is true or not. We find instances of both happening. Perhaps there are blessings for the wife if she does consent, and that is really what the Law of Sarah is, I don't know, I'd have to do some research on that. I know my Dad felt that my mom had given her consent to him to remarry after about a year or so. I'm not sure what you are suggesting by your final comments. Do you feel that widowers should also not remarry?

[Melissa]

It's clear you don't like polygamy.

It is also clear that it was practiced with God's authorization in biblical times, and also in our church's early days.

Whether we like it or not.

It's good none of us practice it today, although a widower can be sealed to anther woman.

Do you dislike President Nelson and Elder Oaks being sealed to other woman?

And the house has been established....so no further need. Again, and EARTHLY practice.

I don't really care about their marriages.

No i dont like polygamy. And me stating that I care about their marriages as a response to your attempt to kind of slap me in the face with modern use of it, is not very nice.

They are married only because their first wife died. I dont care if they have both wives for eternity. What I do care about is the church telling me (or other members) that I will have to live it when I dont have to. It is not Gods preference. I honestly dont care if some prophets have more than one wife in eternity, that doesnt matter. What does matter is the constant abuse women have to deal with by people telling them they will live it because its Gods design for exaltation- when it clearly is not.

[rewcox]

The church is telling you to live monogamy. I don't understand getting upset over something that is not in play. God has authorized it in the past. We live now.

The women who are sealed to a widower are not forced, and I suspect they are quite happy to have an eternal sealing.

No i dont like polygamy. And me stating that I care about their marriages as a response to your attempt to kind of slap me in the face with modern use of it, is not very nice.

They are married only because their first wife died. I dont care if they have both wives for eternity. What I do care about is the church telling me (or other members) that I will have to live it when I dont have to. It is not Gods preference. I honestly dont care if some prophets have more than one wife in eternity, that doesnt matter. What does matter is the constant abuse women have to deal with by people telling them they will live it because its Gods design for exaltation- when it clearly is not.

[butterfly]

I agree with what the OP is trying to understand - but maybe mine is a different perspective.
I believe that polygamy is practiced in heaven but not polygamy like what Brigham Young did. When I prayed about polygamy, the answer was "yes", but I saw in my mind's eye more of a circle, like everyone is connected as a family in a circle, we're all linked together as brothers and sisters in the family of God.
I don't think it's about having sex with multiple women. I think it is to link us all together as a covenant body of believers somehow.
Because also, when I prayed to know if I'd have to share my husband with another wife, the answer was "No".
That tells me that I should not equate earthly polygamy to what goes on in heaven.

[Fiannan]

This may be due to what I'm speaking of is completely anti-alpha male, anti animal-mark-of-the beast inspired.

Ah, so rather than Metallica you are more the Justin Bieber sort of guy?

[Fiannan]

We live in a culture that has taught us that anything unfair is "wrong." So of course, if you look at polygamy and how it is unfair to women, then it would be immoral in someone's eyes.

First the term "fair" as in "This is unfair" does not even exist in the Hebrew language. It is not a concept that is in the Bible. Justice in a legal sense perhaps, but not "fairness."

Second, if anything polygamy empowers women and gives them more choices. Ultimately it might seem "unfair" to men who are inferior spiritually, mentally or physically. Women would likely choose males other than them for mating purposes.

[Dash jones]

Personally, speaking of the Mormon Heaven, don't know if polygamy exists there or not.

The scripture many use (7 women grabbing one man and saying we will do everything if we can only use your name) is actually misused IN MY thoughts, as it is speaking of the evil in the world rather than polygamy (but then, that's a personal interpretation rather than specifically LDS).

However, I think there are several ways it COULD exist.

For starters, I don't know if any of you watch Doctor Who. In it, there is an ending (I think it is season 4?) where there are two doctors, but they are the same person. It allows the doctor to go on his adventures, while at the same time for the doctor to stay with the love of his life.

I bring it up because I think it could be relevant to how heaven MIGHT operate if there is polygamy. If time does not exist in eternity and in the heavens, then would it not be possible for the same man to spend all the time in eternity with each spouse? There is no limitation on the time.

There are other items that we see from LDS history of those wives who actually ENJOYED polygamy. Much of it at times was because the husband was away from home a lot, or unable to do much at home in some cases. In these instances where woman enjoyed polygamy, much was said about how much they loved the other wives, how great of friends they were and how good company they were to each other. In some ways it seems almost like a woman's club that the husband is sort of the bystander of at times.

In our earthly lives, such things could create schisms as you'd have the popular ones, the not so popular ones...etc...but in heaven if all love everyone else...this shouldn't be a problem. In fact, for those husbands that are more introverts, for those who LIKE this sort of companionship of other women...it could be a blessing.

Another thought, is if in eternity eventually each has their own kingdom...you may be happy with your husband for all eternity...but you will NEVER have another woman's companionship in your own kingdoms? Some would like that, some would yearn for another woman's friendship perhaps...IF the idea of your own kingdom on your own is there. In that instance, it probably would be the Husband that loses out in some ways (no more guys night out...but there could still be girls nights out).

These are just ideas of how it could be actually beneficial to some. I'd say IF (and that's an IF) polygamy was something that was a Law of the Lord (and I think in LDS Mormonism it actually is, but many opinions vary on these forums), the REASON it is not going to be restored (beyond the laws of the land that is...obviously) is because of the weakness and wickedness of the members of the LDS church.

I'm not condemning them, but frankly, when it was revealed in Brigham Young's day, it was a VERY hard principle for many. It was much easier for their children to accept, but for those original members who received it, it was HARD. I imagine today, if it was restored, it would LITERALLY DESTROY or at least seriously hurt the LDS church. There would be a serious rift caused by it, and MANY would apostatize from the church, probably much more than did in the original polygamy prouncements. We are far too caught up in what the world views marriage as to accept anything that goes counter to our fantasies.

Of course, before saying how evil I am, just remember, in my religious views, polygamy is not only not approved, but marriage is ONLY FOR THE WEAK who cannot abide to live by the higher law (celibacy). In some ways, polygamy is the exact opposite of celibacy...which is rather ironic in comparison. (and I am weak in that regards overall, so celibacy is probably not the life I aspire too).

Much of my post is simply my wondering how this would work in LDS theology. It is something that isn't really explored much in LDS teachings (that I've found) and so we are left to wonder how it would operate and how it would work. IF LDS teachings are anything though, it is that what is here on earth is in many ways a type and shadow of what is in heaven. IF polygamy was a LAW of the LORD, then common sense in regards to LDS teachings would be that it would be very similar in the way it appears to how it was condoned in relationships WHICH the LORD (so only those probably established by him) operated.

The key is to see how a wife could possibly be happy in such a relationship in heaven. We know on this earth many would not be, so what is different, what changes? I think a lot of it would do with HOW the modern view of things no longer is pertinent, how certain constants (such as time) we see here may longer be in affect, and how ideas of love, friendship, and eternal life hold true.

Now, once again, I can say, my own religious views preclude this idea, and the ideals are different. However, I think looking at polygamy in the light of trying to figure out how it would work and how people may want it in heaven probably would require us to look at those woman (not men probably) who welcomed polygamy and WHY they did so. What attributes about them made it so polygamy was a good thing for them, and what attributes did they personally feel was beneficial.

I find in most of the instances of the woman who were pro-polygamy, it normally had NOTHING to do with the Carnal side and had far more to do with other things.

So, for men, perhaps it was with the distraction of Carnality (or not, maybe many of them were those who would normally not be in that set of mind IF it was designed by the LORD), but I think the real indicator of how it probably should or would operate would be reflected by those woman who participated in polygamy and were themselves for the practice.

[Sarah]

We live in a culture that has taught us that anything unfair is "wrong." So of course, if you look at polygamy and how it is unfair to women, then it would be immoral in someone's eyes.

First the term "fair" as in "This is unfair" does not even exist in the Hebrew language. It is not a concept that is in the Bible. Justice in a legal sense perhaps, but not "fairness."

Second, if anything polygamy empowers women and gives them more choices. Ultimately it might seem "unfair" to men who are inferior spiritually, mentally or physically. Women would likely choose males other than them for mating purposes.

That is interesting that the word fair does not exist in the Hebrew language. And "justice" is probably a better term to use. My point was not to argue for fairness or even justice in this life, but I was trying to make the point that others use the barometer of fairness to judge if something is morally right or not. For example, they will say capitalism is immoral because it creates inequity. The same argument is used against polygamy.

Is capitalism bad or good? I remember Elder Oaks stating that it was the best system out there, or something to that effect. Obviously we will not live capitalism in eternity, but people are not holy and unselfish enough to live the Law of Consecration. Satan knows this. He knows that we all have a longing for being equal in all things. That is why the ideas of communism and socialism are so attractive, and he uses those arguments to say that it is so important, that we need to use force to make sure a great immorality (inequality) doesn't take place. But a perfect system of everyone sharing and a system of distribution can only work if everyone chooses and covenants together to do so.

The same concepts can be applied to marriage. We all have the longings for love and intimacy. Just like capitalism is the best we have to live with, our current system of marriage is also the best there is available. People are not holy and unselfish enough to live the Law of Plural Marriage. Just like capitalism succeeds because of self-interest, one man to one woman also fulfills the self-interest people have to have one person all to themselves. Nothing wrong with this, but there is a higher law, and mirrors the Law of Consecration. It is only entered into by those who choose to do so and enter into it by covenant.

Now Satan, he came up with using the idea to use force to appeal to those who wanted to have equality by forcing others to live communism. He would just force everyone to share. What has he done with marriage? He certainly can't use that same tactic, using gov. control, so he just tells people that they can have whoever they want. He tells them that restricting themselves to one person is denying oneself the joy of pleasing them selves with others. He tells people that they deserve to be loved and treated well by their spouse and so he promotes divorce and adultery. He does everything he can to break down marriage covenants because the keeping of that covenant is a sign to God that you at least value honor, loyalty, charity, children, and God's will over your own selfish desires. If you can show that you can perfectly love one, you will someday understand that you can perfectly love others, and have the privilege of doing so.

And Fiannan, I agree with your point about polygamy giving more choices to women, when it was practiced on this earth. But theoretically, the men still have more choice in the matter. They can choose to offer marriage to as many women as they choose, and women are consigned to get married once and that is the end of it. Would you be happy if the tables were turned and the woman had that ability and you had to live with a dozen other guys and share her? So I think arguing that it is equal is not really true. And I actually like your point about the inferior men being at a disadvantage because really that is what plural marriage in heaven will solve if both men and women share spouses. The inferior man can offer marriage to other already married women and they will likely consent because they already have a guy or guys they love to be with and they see marriage again as a chance to help others progress and build their kingdoms. But the flip side for women is that their husbands can't take them for granted, because other men will be competing for their time and love. Sounds like a just system to me!

[BrotherOfMahonri]

This may be due to what I'm speaking of is completely anti-alpha male, anti animal-mark-of-the beast inspired.

Ah, so rather than Metallica you are more the Justin Bieber sort of guy?

Weird is an understatement for this comment. To answer you, neither.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

My thoughts below yours in red.

I think we need to look at marriage and sealings as not just about the blessings we will receive from the union, but how we can enter marriage with the intent to help another, and lift another, even in his or her imperfect/unbalanced state.
Interesting thought. I have the habit of putting all these thoughts to and through the Christ and what his example was, which lead me directly to his loving, virtuous, and sacred relationship it seems (esp. if the spirit is with you studying this) with Mary Magdelene and Martha to name two. He lifted them, loved them, and from what I understand did not need to marry either of them?

I don't know enough about your parents to be the judge, but the fact remains that the third wife now has the chance to make a sacred covenant with God despite your Dad's questionable worthiness status. agreed, and she is innocent in my eyes for sure, and the atonement is for everyone And really, aren't we all guilty of not being a perfect wife/husband? Doesn't every husband and wife(mother) exercise some unrighteous dominion? yes, however love and maturity seems to be at a higher level with some than others, which is why sometimes we have divorce is it not? So like all other covenants, these earth-life sealings are conditional upon righteousness. But that sealing covenant is tied to God first and foremost, so even if your spouse fouls up, you will be blessed to receive all the promised blessings. For this reason, it makes sense for women to receive the opportunity to be sealed, even if is to an imperfect husband who already has a wife. The husbands are the one's who can offer the gift of marriage. Because they offer marriage, it makes sense that they are accountable to offer the gift of exaltation to every woman.

As for Elder Scott, I don't think it is our place to assume what his reasons were for not marrying again. In fact, it might be that part of his mission included testifying of the perfect love he shared with his wife to all of us. Yes, I agree that there are unions that have this ecstasy of such spiritual oneness and perfect love that they were always eternal, even from before this mortal life. I do believe we had relationships before this life of some sort, and we were naturally drawn to some or one more than others. That is why part of my belief and understanding is that even though plural marriage is an eternal principle, and we all might be married to more than one, there will be those who we feel more a connection and kindred feeling towards than perhaps others. That doesn't mean we can't love another perfectly and help them in their progression. My Dad, even though I know he loves his second wife, misses the kind of relationship he had with my mother. My mom was super easy-going and was a real pleaser. This woman is different. She is more opinionated about what she wants and feels and I think it is good for my dad in some ways. She is stretching him. That's what marrying different personalities will do to us. It will stretch us. We will develop different traits by partnering and working together with another. I really don't know, if all this is true, but that is what I'm inclined to believe at the moment based on personal revelation and from clues we find in the scriptures, temple, and words from the prophets.
thanks for sharing. reading your thoughts just now, my heart feels something about sealings being that of family, as after all, your husband to you, or my wife to me, is a spiritual sibling are they not? If we had that perspective, with the perspective without the veil, I feel our thoughts about man's attempt to establish polygamy as if from God would be extra laughable and quite sad.

As for the idea that it is wrong to remarry if the wife hasn't given consent, I really don't know if that is true or not. We find instances of both happening. Perhaps there are blessings for the wife if she does consent, and that is really what the Law of Sarah is, I don't know, I'd have to do some research on that. I know my Dad felt that my mom had given her consent to him to remarry after about a year or so. I'm not sure what you are suggesting by your final comments. Do you feel that widowers should also not remarry?

Widowers are to be taken care of, that is in the gospel, not married per say but taken care of, however then you have the story of Ruth and Boaz to consider... So I'm with you on not knowing, but I do feel powerfully what I shared in the OP is closer to reality than this false polygamy idea of man.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Opinions are worthless when they are against God and His church.

Why did your church previously practice plural marriage (polygamy)?

Official Answer
At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1). At other times the Lord has given other instructions. In the Book of Mormon, the Lord told the prophet Jacob “for there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife: and concubines he shall have none... for if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things” (Jacob 2:27-30).

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1).

The Lord’s law of marriage is monogamy unless he commands otherwise to help establish the House of Israel (see Encyclopedia of Mormonism Vol. 3, pp. 1091-1095).

I'll post this again here for those who desire to keep an open mind and let God teach you the truth, not some MAN's counsel about some scripture they said means something that makes NO SENSE after all in its context and reading... I trust that those whose hearts are as a child, will see the truth plainly as Nephi stated it is to be had.

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This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

[rewcox]

Widowers are to be taken care of, that is in the gospel, not married per say but taken care of, however then you have the story of Ruth and Boaz to consider... So I'm with you on not knowing, but I do feel powerfully what I shared in the OP is closer to reality than this false polygamy idea of man.

And the church says:

Why did your church previously practice plural marriage (polygamy)?
Official Answer
At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1). At other times the Lord has given other instructions. In the Book of Mormon, the Lord told the prophet Jacob “for there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife: and concubines he shall have none... for if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things” (Jacob 2:27-30).

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1).

The Lord’s law of marriage is monogamy unless he commands otherwise to help establish the House of Israel (see Encyclopedia of Mormonism Vol. 3, pp. 1091-1095).

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Widowers are to be taken care of, that is in the gospel, not married per say but taken care of, however then you have the story of Ruth and Boaz to consider... So I'm with you on not knowing, but I do feel powerfully what I shared in the OP is closer to reality than this false polygamy idea of man.

And the church says:

Why did your church previously practice plural marriage (polygamy)?
Official Answer
At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1). At other times the Lord has given other instructions. In the Book of Mormon, the Lord told the prophet Jacob “for there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife: and concubines he shall have none... for if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things” (Jacob 2:27-30).

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1).

The Lord’s law of marriage is monogamy unless he commands otherwise to help establish the House of Israel (see Encyclopedia of Mormonism Vol. 3, pp. 1091-1095).

Following your pattern just now, here you go... again...

I'll post this again here for those who desire to keep an open mind and let God teach you the truth, not some MAN's counsel about some scripture they said means something that makes NO SENSE after all in its context and reading... I trust that those whose hearts are as a child, will see the truth plainly as Nephi stated it is to be had.

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2. viewtopic.php?t=38780#p609422" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

[rewcox]

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

What I'm asking you to trust is in scripture and the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting that these "other people" who have the spirit is who you trust? I'm inviting you to trust the Spirit, and asking you to open your heart and consider that man's interpretation of Jacob 2 is woefully wrong and ill inspired. I am inviting you to consider how odd the interpretation of Jacob 2 by the counsel of men in the church is, and it is definitely odd, but I don't believe you have even considered it, as considering it in your view might make you feel like you are apostatizing from the church/God - which in my view, speaks much to the heart and if it is open or not to God's interpretation of his own scripture.

[rewcox]

I confirmed just last week, BofM. Even gave you the testimony.

I haven't left the church, I believe it is true. I also believe the prophet and apostles are Christ's chosen apostles.

This is the standard Mormon position.

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

What I'm asking you to trust is in scripture and the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting that these "other people" who have the spirit is who you trust? I'm inviting you to trust the Spirit, and asking you to open your heart and consider that man's interpretation of Jacob 2 is woefully wrong and ill inspired. I am inviting you to consider how odd the interpretation of Jacob 2 by the counsel of men in the church is, and it is definitely odd, but I don't believe you have even considered it, as considering it in your view might make you feel like you are apostatizing from the church/God - which in my view, speaks much to the heart and if it is open or not to God's interpretation of his own scripture.

[Stacy Oliver]

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

Why not? Didn't you feel that earthquake that Jared prophesied last week?

[Zathura]

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

The Spirit has born witness of some truth that this brother has spoken , i declare that he does have truth. I have also seen you speak truth from time to time. I don't appreciate your accusations in suggesting that he is influenced by an evil spirit. You're not setting a good example for other members in condemning your fellow Saint.
Follow the scriptures you copy and paste all day, and love this brother as you love yourself.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

Why not? Didn't you feel that earthquake that Jared prophesied last week?

What a cute comment.

Per your sweetness, may I just say the following, I now know what it is like to have a vision, given of God, and have the saints mock it openly and ill-inspired, and decry foul, put assumptions, dates, and words in my mouth.

I pray God bless you for the integrity of your heart and unfeigned love towards myself and others.

It is coming, it isn't my doing, but Gods, and it is his timing and will. I am feeling this Spring 2016, as we attempt to leave Utah again, which has been in my visions from God when it occurs, and this time we are leaving on his terms not ours. May you be humble enough to know the Lord's will for you and your family, and may he grant you with visions to bless your heart with patterns that only he can give you, patterns that comfort you in regards to his promises made to you, esp. as the events of the last days begin to touch our lives more directly.

[Stacy Oliver]

What a cute comment.

Per your sweetness, may I just say the following, I now know what it is like to have a vision, given of God, and have the saints mock it openly and ill-inspired, and decry foul, put assumptions, dates, and words in my mouth.

I pray God bless you for the integrity of your heart and unfeigned love towards myself and others.

It is coming, it isn't my doing, but Gods, and it is his timing and will. I am feeling this Spring 2016, as we attempt to leave Utah again, which has been in my visions from God when it occurs, and this time we are leaving on his terms not ours. May you be humble enough to know the Lord's will for you and your family, and may he grant you with visions to bless your heart with patterns that only he can give you, patterns that comfort you in regards to his promises made to you.

It didn't happen when you said it would, so now you're pushing it back to 2016, huh? Can I get a preview of when the next deadline will be after you're proven wrong again?

[rewcox]

BofM make his own choices. The consequences will also be his own.

I have also asked BofM to come back. I didn't say evil, it says "false". You may not appreciate it, but there is a lot of "false" comments around here.

Stahura, in the two years I have been here, I have seen several people leave the church. You might think that is ok. I don't believe that. I have spoken with a few of the people here. It hurts me to see this.

I have taken the position to speak out when I see false concepts and false prophets. BofM is not a member, that was his choice.

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

The Spirit has born witness of some truth that this brother has spoken , i declare that he does have truth. I have also seen you speak truth from time to time. I don't appreciate your accusations in suggesting that he is influenced by an evil spirit. You're not setting a good example for other members in condemning your fellow Saint.
Follow the scriptures you copy and paste all day, and love this brother as you love yourself.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

Why not? Didn't you feel that earthquake that Jared prophesied last week?

Look friends, I get that we burn each other sometimes, but good night let's try to be mature and less like squabbling toddlers. Maybe we should all try a bit more kindness? (KitKat - logged in under my husband's account )

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I confirmed just last week, BofM. Even gave you the testimony.

I haven't left the church, I believe it is true. I also believe the prophet and apostles are Christ's chosen apostles.

This is the standard Mormon position.

This blatant ignoring of what has been shared with you again and again rewcox is now tantamount to ignoring the truth, possibly ignoring the spirit in my humble view brother rewcox, another invite of many for you to prayerfully ponder what you are doing in regards to Jacob 2... and then debunk what I've shared above in those three links as you have yet to even address it, are you afraid of the consequences of doing so, if so, pure love casts out all that fear, and pure love is what the OP is about, and polygamy is in huge grave error, and the restored gospel of Jesus Christ cries against it.

Why should I trust you? You don't have the truth. Other people have the spirit too, BofM. Maybe not the same one.

What I'm asking you to trust is in scripture and the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting that these "other people" who have the spirit is who you trust? I'm inviting you to trust the Spirit, and asking you to open your heart and consider that man's interpretation of Jacob 2 is woefully wrong and ill inspired. I am inviting you to consider how odd the interpretation of Jacob 2 by the counsel of men in the church is, and it is definitely odd, but I don't believe you have even considered it, as considering it in your view might make you feel like you are apostatizing from the church/God - which in my view, speaks much to the heart and if it is open or not to God's interpretation of his own scripture.

You did not confirm it in the least. What you did confirm was telling me how because the book of mormon is true, that means everything connected to it must be true, church, polygamy (at the time), and esp. man's interpretation of Jacob 2, men who lived polygamy.

The gospel restored invites us to seek wisdom and knowledge, even the mysteries of Godliness. Stepping out of the box to reconsider Jacob 2, brother rewcox, I promise will not make you an apostate, but I do warn you, it will shake your FAITH in man, which is a good thing.

I love the same gospel you purport to love. I love and sustain you as my fellow brother. I do however, have a heart that has been opened and softened as I've learned to trust the Lord, and I'm here on his errand often, not my own, to invite others to the beautify of the restored gospel, beauty that men of authority oft times get in the way of, change, and cause us to err in... Jacob 2 is a prime example of this. Fear not seeking a witness of it yourself is my invite to you personally, may you consider it not for my sake, but yours.

[rewcox]

Look friends, I get that we burn each other sometimes, but good night let's try to be mature and less like squabbling toddlers. Maybe we should all try a bit more kindness?

=))

This thread is about polygamy. I have posted the church's position. Also my bold testimony that Joseph and Brigham Young were authorized to practice it.

I have also posted essays by Brian Hale, and links to his website on polygamy.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

What a cute comment.

Per your sweetness, may I just say the following, I now know what it is like to have a vision, given of God, and have the saints mock it openly and ill-inspired, and decry foul, put assumptions, dates, and words in my mouth.

I pray God bless you for the integrity of your heart and unfeigned love towards myself and others.

It is coming, it isn't my doing, but Gods, and it is his timing and will. I am feeling this Spring 2016, as we attempt to leave Utah again, which has been in my visions from God when it occurs, and this time we are leaving on his terms not ours. May you be humble enough to know the Lord's will for you and your family, and may he grant you with visions to bless your heart with patterns that only he can give you, patterns that comfort you in regards to his promises made to you.

It didn't happen when you said it would, so now you're pushing it back to 2016, huh? Can I get a preview of when the next deadline will be after you're proven wrong again?

Stacy, please enlighten us all where I said it will happen exactly at this date. I said it will happen when we leave Utah, which we attempted to do last spring and late summer, and the Lord said not yet, and not in your way. This spirit of anger, assumption, and falsely accusing is not of God, but definitely is rampant on this forum, with yourself, rewcox, and esp. the ring leader shadow.