Is it right to compare sin of homosexuality with polygamy?

[cayenne]

Is it right to compare and parallel homosexuality with polygamy? Since there recently seems to be a lot of talk about these subjects, what are your thoughts?

Elder D. Todd Christofferson says:

"The situation with polygamist families, for example, and same-sex marriage couples and families really has a parallel."

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/h ... stofferson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Dash jones]

YES. It is.

I was surprised in some ways at how the LDS church approached to topic of Gay Marriage. I would expect that they would condemn the concept. However, I also thought that politically, they would be silent and let it be accepted.

One reason was that I really believe that allowing Gay Marriage as it appeared at the time, and eventually was ruled, opened the door wide open in regards to polygamy.

I'm not saying the LDS church would continue polygamy, but at this point, the reasoning held in the D&C for the discontinuance of polygamy (in other words, the Lord still commands, but the Lord ALSO gave reasons FOR that command, reasons which with the recent Supreme Court ruling are basically no longer existent from what I can tell.) are really no longer in effect.

In addition, (and this would also apply to the persecution of others who practice polygamy in Utah's borders) I have been surprised in their political views to disallow these types of marriages. The History of the LDS church shows great persecution in regards to their own marriage practices. I would think they would not be involved in disallowing others personal ideas on marriage, much less persecute them in that regards.

Doctrinally I expect they would condemn it and any acts connected to it (as they finally have done) as they seem to want to abide by the teachings as taught in the Bible. However, politically, due to their past history as well as the political ramifications it could actually produce on their Church Organization, I expected them to more or less be silent on the subject.

In regards to the political opposition to Gay marriage, I see it as of the same caliber and extent as those opposed to Polygamy. In fact, many of the Laws put out in the Eastern US against Gay marriage (prior to the Supreme Court ruling) were focused JUST AS MUCH against Mormons as it was against Gay Marriage. There was a specific reason for many of them to specify ONE man and ONE woman instead of stating marriage is that between a Man and a Woman or Men and Women in the wording of their laws. In that light, the ideas regarding Gay Marriage and Polygamy are connected politically...though in the Gospel of various Denominations they are VERY different and acted upon very differently.

[rewcox]

For sure. Consider Lot's wife and Sodom and Gomorrah.

You want to be a block of salt, or destroyed by hail and brimstone? Gay sex/marriage ends up in destruction. Practicing polygamy without the consent of God is also bad.

[rewcox]

Dash, you are like a Mormon's best friend!

YES. It is.

I was surprised in some ways at how the LDS church approached to topic of Gay Marriage. I would expect that they would condemn the concept. However, I also thought that politically, they would be silent and let it be accepted.

One reason was that I really believe that allowing Gay Marriage as it appeared at the time, and eventually was ruled, opened the door wide open in regards to polygamy.

I'm not saying the LDS church would continue polygamy, but at this point, the reasoning held in the D&C for the discontinuance of polygamy (in other words, the Lord still commands, but the Lord ALSO gave reasons FOR that command, reasons which with the recent Supreme Court ruling are basically no longer existent from what I can tell.) are really no longer in effect.

In addition, (and this would also apply to the persecution of others who practice polygamy in Utah's borders) I have been surprised in their political views to disallow these types of marriages. The History of the LDS church shows great persecution in regards to their own marriage practices. I would think they would not be involved in disallowing others personal ideas on marriage, much less persecute them in that regards.

Doctrinally I expect they would condemn it and any acts connected to it (as they finally have done) as they seem to want to abide by the teachings as taught in the Bible. However, politically, due to their past history as well as the political ramifications it could actually produce on their Church Organization, I expected them to more or less be silent on the subject.

In regards to the political opposition to Gay marriage, I see it as of the same caliber and extent as those opposed to Polygamy. In fact, many of the Laws put out in the Eastern US against Gay marriage (prior to the Supreme Court ruling) were focused JUST AS MUCH against Mormons as it was against Gay Marriage. There was a specific reason for many of them to specify ONE man and ONE woman instead of stating marriage is that between a Man and a Woman or Men and Women in the wording of their laws. In that light, the ideas regarding Gay Marriage and Polygamy are connected politically...though in the Gospel of various Denominations they are VERY different and acted upon very differently.

[Melissa]

Is it right to compare and parallel homosexuality with polygamy? Since there recently seems to be a lot of talk about these subjects, what are your thoughts?

Elder D. Todd Christofferson says:

"The situation with polygamist families, for example, and same-sex marriage couples and families really has a parallel."

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/h ... stofferson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Without reading the full article yet, I can see what he might be alluding to. Both disrupt the sanctity of God ordained marriage. I'm not sure he was comparing the sins in the sense of saying they are equally bad and comparable in their acts, I think he is just saying both take away from marriage and family. Neither produce good fruits but cause damage to the family unit the way God has designed It to be for the best outcomes.

[Melissa]

He only brought up polygamist families when talking about the children. I agree with what he said. It was a good interview and I than you for posting it

[Fiannan]

Sure, why not? The prophets of the Bible and the Restoration condemned both homosexuality and polygamy, didn't they?

[Fiannan]

He only brought up polygamist families when talking about the children. I agree with what he said. It was a good interview and I than you for posting it

It was a good interview - he skirted the really difficult questions like a pro.

[MormonPatriot]

Yes. and it is actually worse.

Homosexuality is an aberration and against nature.

plus, God occasionally permits polygamy when there is a shortage of men or of various reasons.

[Melissa]

He only brought up polygamist families when talking about the children. I agree with what he said. It was a good interview and I than you for posting it

It was a good interview - he skirted the really difficult questions like a pro.

Sarcasm, nice. You clearly didn't like the interview because.....? Because you disagree with....?

People seriously have problems with the apostles don't they?

And this is NOT a polygamy thread as far as the posted link is concerned.

[Fiannan]

Yes. and it is actually worse.

How? Please cite scripture, biology or psychology.

Homosexuality is an aberration and against nature.

Less so that birth control. Animals, even those who engage in social sex (i.e. dolphins) never try to avoid pregnancy and reproduction. Yet one can observe homosexual activities in higher-order and lower animals.

plus, God occasionally permits polygamy when there is a shortage of men or of various reasons.

You ever looked at a group of LDS young men lately? And they are more macho than their non-Mormon American counterparts. Well, no wonder considering their examples. And even LDS males are avoiding marriage nowadays.

[MormonPatriot]

Yes. and it is actually worse.

How? Please cite scripture, biology or psychology.

Homosexuality is an aberration and against nature.

Less so that birth control. Animals, even those who engage in social sex (i.e. dolphins) never try to avoid pregnancy and reproduction. Yet one can observe homosexual activities in higher-order and lower animals.

plus, God occasionally permits polygamy when there is a shortage of men or of various reasons.

You ever looked at a group of LDS young men lately? And they are more macho than their non-Mormon American counterparts. Well, no wonder considering their examples. And even LDS males are avoiding marriage nowadays.

The Prophets have spoken. I follow the prophets

[Fiannan]

The Prophets have spoken. I follow the prophets

“Officers, members of the Relief Society, herein you have the word of the Lord, on this subject. Can anything be clearer or more emphatic? It is a very strange thing that people can believe that the Lord of Life could countenance for one moment, the refusal of his children to comply with the first commandment given to Adam and Eve. It is so easy to avoid parenthood, if people wish to do so, and that, too, innocently, even if selfishly. Men and women can remain unmarried. That is all there is too it.”

- First Presidency (Joseph F. Smith, Anthon H. Lund, Charles W. Penrose), Relief Society Magazine, v. 4, no. 2, February 1917, pp. 68-69



“… since birth control roots in a species of selfishness, the spiritual life of the user of contraceptives is also weakened. Women seem to become more masculine in thought and action; men more callous and reserved; both husband and wife become more careless of each other, and increasingly indifferent to the higher duties and joys of living.”

- Apostle John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 310-314

[MormonPatriot]

The Prophets have spoken. I follow the prophets

“Officers, members of the Relief Society, herein you have the word of the Lord, on this subject. Can anything be clearer or more emphatic? It is a very strange thing that people can believe that the Lord of Life could countenance for one moment, the refusal of his children to comply with the first commandment given to Adam and Eve. It is so easy to avoid parenthood, if people wish to do so, and that, too, innocently, even if selfishly. Men and women can remain unmarried. That is all there is too it.”

- First Presidency (Joseph F. Smith, Anthon H. Lund, Charles W. Penrose), Relief Society Magazine, v. 4, no. 2, February 1917, pp. 68-69



“… since birth control roots in a species of selfishness, the spiritual life of the user of contraceptives is also weakened. Women seem to become more masculine in thought and action; men more callous and reserved; both husband and wife become more careless of each other, and increasingly indifferent to the higher duties and joys of living.”

- Apostle John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 310-314

I am not interested in your overt apostasy. The current prophet has spoken....end of story

[Fiannan]

I am not interested in your overt apostasy. The current prophet has spoken....end of story

Are you for real?

[MormonPatriot]

I am not interested in your overt apostasy. The current prophet has spoken....end of story

Are you for real?

you can bet your bottom dollar that I am.

Why is it so surprising that someone would actually have a testimony that the Church is led by Christ himself and the Prophet and his Apostles are mere mouthpieces for the Lord.

Is that not what you believe? Then you and I believe in different gospels.

You want to throw random quotes out there, go ahead. I could give you just as many to support my position.

The bottom line is that for the last 190 or so years we have had a LIVING PROPHET on this earth....let that sink in.

[mysterymormon]

Polygamy communities have a history of disowning their children for leaving. They also had a history with arranging their children to get married at young ages etc. For those instances the policy makes sense for them to wait until they are 18 and can decide if joining the church is worth the risk of being disowned. This isn't the case with all polygamous families, however as more people are practicing polygamy in a more modern way. I have a family member (he is like family to us now) who was disowned by his family for becoming a member at age 18, he is like family to us now as he was taken in and became family to us. However, it is not a parallel to the LGBT policy as there are many LGBT families that wish their children to be raised Mormon. Also, in polygamy a lot of their religious beliefs closely match the LDS church beliefs, but believe in polygamy as well. The Church's policy to have them denounce the practice and get approved through the first presidency was an effort to make sure they don't still want to practice it and are just looking for someone to take from the fold etc. The policy for LGBT is not the same circumstances as polygamy and should not be in place. http://mysterymormon.com/2015/11/07/mor ... y-clarify/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[creator]

Is it right to compare and parallel homosexuality with polygamy? ...

The title of this thread says "Is it right to compare sin of homosexuality with polygamy?" yet the statement you quoted is "The situation with polygamist families, for example, and same-sex marriage couples and families really has a parallel."
There is a difference.

I wouldn't say that polygamy is a sin, it's simply not something the Church practices anymore (a presently revoked commandment). Homosexuality / Same-sex marriage is an abomination. Two drastically different things.. but it could be correct to say there is a "parallel" in the situation with the families in relation to the Church. Though it's even more harsh against polygamists in this "parallel".

[zionminded]

The fact that the church does it is an interesting cultural statement.

Polygamy is a wall that the church wants to distance itself on the other side of, and it views the boundary between children of those families on the other side of that wall.

Its doing the same with gay marriage. They want nothing to do with it, because it would hurt children. Why? Because many Mormon's are very anti-gay. They cannot separate the "sinner from the sin".

[Melissa]

The fact that the church does it is an interesting cultural statement.

Polygamy is a wall that the church wants to distance itself on the other side of, and it views the boundary between children of those families on the other side of that wall.

Its doing the same with gay marriage. They want nothing to do with it, because it would hurt children. Why? Because many Mormon's are very anti-gay. They cannot separate the "sinner from the sin".

Maybe listen to the interview again ? I thought he explained the children thing pretty well. It is understandable.

[Fiannan]

You want to throw random quotes out there, go ahead. I could give you just as many to support my position.

And what position is that?

[a_member]

For the record, the Sodom and Gomorrah story isn't about homosexuality, or at least not mainly. That's only tangential to the real point, made clear in the JST, that any society which uses sex as a form of punishment is in serious danger of being pruned.

[a_member]

It's probably not cool to state what I did above without quoting something from the relevant passage, so here it is:

10 And they said among themselves, This one man came in to sojourn among us, and he will needs now make himself to be a judge; now we will deal worse with him than with them.

11 Wherefore they said unto the man, We will have the men, and thy daughters also; and we will do with them as seemeth us good.

12 Now this was after the wickedness of Sodom.

source: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/jst/jst-gen/19?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Based on context, what does "this" in v12 refer to? I'd say it refers to their overall reasoning, that they could use sex (with Lot's visitors or his daughters) as a way to punish him for denying their wishes.

Adding, some related thoughts from Mormon:

9 And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

10 And after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruel manner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts; and they do it for a token of bravery.

11 O my beloved son, how can a people like this, that are without civilization—

12 (And only a few years have passed away, and they were a civil and a delightsome people)

13 But O my son, how can a people like this, whose delight is in so much abomination—

14 How can we expect that God will stay his hand in judgment against us?

source: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/9.20?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[zionminded]

The fact that the church does it is an interesting cultural statement.

Polygamy is a wall that the church wants to distance itself on the other side of, and it views the boundary between children of those families on the other side of that wall.

Its doing the same with gay marriage. They want nothing to do with it, because it would hurt children. Why? Because many Mormon's are very anti-gay. They cannot separate the "sinner from the sin".

Maybe listen to the interview again ? I thought he explained the children thing pretty well. It is understandable.

It is understandable. My point is people don't come away from church thinking that polygamy (or those who practice it) are going to hell just about as fast as a murderer. But we do about being gay. While this isn't openly said as such, there is a strong anti-gay culture in LDS circles. Its taught as worse than all moral sin. I'm not sure that's true.

[slimjamm]

Is it right to compare and parallel homosexuality with polygamy? ...

The title of this thread says "Is it right to compare sin of homosexuality with polygamy?" yet the statement you quoted is "The situation with polygamist families, for example, and same-sex marriage couples and families really has a parallel."
There is a difference.

I wouldn't say that polygamy is a sin, it's simply not something the Church practices anymore (a presently revoked commandment). Homosexuality / Same-sex marriage is an abomination. Two drastically different things.. but it could be correct to say there is a "parallel" in the situation with the families in relation to the Church. Though it's even more harsh against polygamists in this "parallel".

This^^^