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Re: About Heaven

Posted: October 31st, 2015, 9:35 pm
by Jason
marc wrote:
zionminded wrote:Heaven is not earned, it is where people "be" based on who they have become; which process comes through obedience and applying the principles of the atonement and the grace of Christ. Heaven isn't a place walled off from others who don't qualify to enter, rather its a place (or many places) where only those like God will choose to go because of who they are. Its more about who you are, not where you go. Its more about what you become, not what you did or didn't do.
This.

Christ's grace allows us to grow and become like Christ. That is how we become saved. Jesus Christ is the example of what a saved being looks like. You turn the other cheek. You possess charity. You give to them that ask according to their wants. You return love for railing. You lay down your life for your fellow man. Because He purchased us with His blood, He has claim on mercy. And He is merciful to those who show mercy, etc.

Being saved is not something you earn. It is something you become. By becoming, you manifest the kind of society, whose company you will most naturally keep. Christ paid the price for each time you get it wrong until you get it right, if you choose discipleship. It means not judging. It means giving. It means loving. It means all the things Christ said to become because that is what He became and what every saved person looks like. Anyone can do, even unwillingly and by compulsion. But not everyone will of their own free will do to become. If you walk into heaven, it is because the kingdom of heaven is already within you.
Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...

Re: About Heaven

Posted: October 31st, 2015, 9:37 pm
by marc
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)

Re: About Heaven

Posted: October 31st, 2015, 9:40 pm
by Jason
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 3:37 am
by Obrien
Jason wrote:
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...
Obeying Christ is the important part. If He tells you to follow "His servants", you'd be well to do so. If He does not, you'd be foolish to follow another mortal.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 4:46 am
by 2ndRateMind
All most interesting. And thanks to all who have replied. I have a theory about heaven which I won't bore you with, but it not at all dissimilar to zionminded's ideas about Heaven being more about who and what you are than where you go.

Cheers, 2RM.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 4:50 am
by davedan
1. We can do nothing without Christ's Atonement and grace.

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23)

2. What is "all we can do"?

Behold, could ye suppose that ye could sit upon your thrones, and because of the exceeding goodness of God ye could do nothing and he would deliver you? Behold, if ye have supposed this ye have supposed in vain.... Or do ye suppose that the Lord will still deliver us, while we sit upon our thrones and do not make use of the means which the Lord has provided for us? (Book of Mormon, Alma 60:11;21)

"All we can do" does not mean we can do anthing on our own without Christ but instead it means we must receive, apply, and "make use" of the gifts and grace Christ has already given us.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 5:38 am
by Kitkat
Good question.

I believe because God knows our hearts perfectly...well he can judge perfectly.

I also believe that God is going to give us what we want the most.

Beyond that I have a hard time really nailing anything down because our individual circumstances vary so greatly.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 7:57 am
by Jason
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
Obrien wrote:
Jason wrote:And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...
Obeying Christ is the important part. If He tells you to follow "His servants", you'd be well to do so. If He does not, you'd be foolish to follow another mortal.
And nothing is more harmful to the individual than thinking they are following Christ...but have been deceived by the adversary....typically like Korihor when it appealed to them in some form or fashion...most typically pride.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 8:12 am
by marc
Jason wrote:
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
Obrien wrote:
Jason wrote:And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...
Obeying Christ is the important part. If He tells you to follow "His servants", you'd be well to do so. If He does not, you'd be foolish to follow another mortal.
And nothing is more harmful to the individual than thinking they are following Christ...but have been deceived by the adversary....typically like Korihor when it appealed to them in some form or fashion...most typically pride.
Conversely, nothing is more powerful to the individual than knowing by the Holy Ghost, typically like Nephi, that the course he is pursuing is according to God's will.
4 Such was and always will be the situation of the saints of God, that unless they have an actual knowledge that the course that they are pursuing is according to the will of God, they will grow weary in their minds and faint; for such has been and always will be the opposition in the hearts of unbelievers and those that know not God, against the pure and unadulterated religion of heaven, (the only thing which ensures eternal life,) that they will persecute, to the uttermost, all that worship God according to his revelations, receive the truth in the love of it, and submit themselves to be guided and directed by his will, and drive them to such extremities that nothing short of an actual knowledge of their being the favorites of heaven, and of their having embraced that order of things which God has established for the redemption of man, will enable them to exercise that confidence in him necessary for them to overcome the world, and obtain that crown of glory which is laid up for them that fear God.-- http://lecturesonfaith.com/6.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Each time I have overcome something and each time I must overcome something else, only God who knows me intimately, and knows what I yet lack, has whispered to me what to work on next. And it is because I continually pray and I do not faint.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 9:43 am
by zionminded
Jason wrote:
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...
Of course you need to be obedient, but its why you do it.

I'd say 80% of active Mormon's are obedient because they think you must do so to "earn" your ticket into heaven and to earn the power of the atonement. In fact, you must be obedient, because it is the fast path to becoming like God. The book of Isaiah is very clear on that, and is a perfect comparison to why Israel was given the law.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 5:25 pm
by Jason
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
zionminded wrote:
Jason wrote:And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...
Of course you need to be obedient, but its why you do it.

I'd say 80% of active Mormon's are obedient because they think you must do so to "earn" your ticket into heaven and to earn the power of the atonement. In fact, you must be obedient, because it is the fast path to becoming like God. The book of Isaiah is very clear on that, and is a perfect comparison to why Israel was given the law.
Isn't becoming like God the "ticket" to getting into heaven?

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 5:32 pm
by rewcox
davedan wrote:1. We can do nothing without Christ's Atonement and grace.

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23)

2. What is "all we can do"?

Behold, could ye suppose that ye could sit upon your thrones, and because of the exceeding goodness of God ye could do nothing and he would deliver you? Behold, if ye have supposed this ye have supposed in vain.... Or do ye suppose that the Lord will still deliver us, while we sit upon our thrones and do not make use of the means which the Lord has provided for us? (Book of Mormon, Alma 60:11;21)

"All we can do" does not mean we can do anthing on our own without Christ but instead it means we must receive, apply, and "make use" of the gifts and grace Christ has already given us.
I like your explanation the best. A person needs to take an active part in what is going on.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 7:10 pm
by zionminded
Jason wrote:
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
zionminded wrote:
Jason wrote:And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...
Of course you need to be obedient, but its why you do it.

I'd say 80% of active Mormon's are obedient because they think you must do so to "earn" your ticket into heaven and to earn the power of the atonement. In fact, you must be obedient, because it is the fast path to becoming like God. The book of Isaiah is very clear on that, and is a perfect comparison to why Israel was given the law.
Isn't becoming like God the "ticket" to getting into heaven?
Yes, but there is nobody checking for tickets at the door, and there is no door.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 7:58 pm
by davedan
rewcox wrote:
davedan wrote:1. We can do nothing without Christ's Atonement and grace.

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23)

2. What is "all we can do"?

Behold, could ye suppose that ye could sit upon your thrones, and because of the exceeding goodness of God ye could do nothing and he would deliver you? Behold, if ye have supposed this ye have supposed in vain.... Or do ye suppose that the Lord will still deliver us, while we sit upon our thrones and do not make use of the means which the Lord has provided for us? (Book of Mormon, Alma 60:11;21)

"All we can do" does not mean we can do anthing on our own without Christ but instead it means we must receive, apply, and "make use" of the gifts and grace Christ has already given us.
I like your explanation the best. A person needs to take an active part in what is going on.
Thanks, but I can't take credit. This is Captain Moroni's explaination and Mormon says that Captain Moroni was a man with "perfect understanding"

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 1st, 2015, 9:29 pm
by Jason
zionminded wrote:
Jason wrote:
marc wrote:
Jason wrote:Ultimately Christ was obedient to the will of the Father...
Precisely! :)
zionminded wrote:
Jason wrote:And thus our mission to be obedient to Christ and His servants...
Of course you need to be obedient, but its why you do it.

I'd say 80% of active Mormon's are obedient because they think you must do so to "earn" your ticket into heaven and to earn the power of the atonement. In fact, you must be obedient, because it is the fast path to becoming like God. The book of Isaiah is very clear on that, and is a perfect comparison to why Israel was given the law.
Isn't becoming like God the "ticket" to getting into heaven?
Yes, but there is nobody checking for tickets at the door, and there is no door.
There is a gate...and there is a keeper...
O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/9.41?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 2nd, 2015, 9:59 pm
by zionminded
Jason wrote:
O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/9.41?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Spiritually yes absolutely, physically no. Christ won't be turning people away at the "gate", he will be begging people to stay. We think heaven is like this:

Image

But it is really more like this:

Image

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 2nd, 2015, 11:53 pm
by Finrock
2ndRateMind wrote:All most interesting. And thanks to all who have replied. I have a theory about heaven which I won't bore you with, but it not at all dissimilar to zionminded's ideas about Heaven being more about who and what you are than where you go.

Cheers, 2RM.
Hi, I'd like to hear your theory.

-Finrock

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 3rd, 2015, 9:50 am
by 2ndRateMind
Hi Finrock

Thanks for your interest.

The basic idea is that, by 'saving the world', we save ourselves. I think it no accident that the qualities of character, the spiritual stature, required for the former are the very same virtues that the scriptures tell us are those beloved by God, and among the riches of heaven. By ending world poverty, and environmental degradation, we become better people, and I think, come the end of days, a just God will reward us for being so better. As for Christianity; well, I think it conducive in ideology and attitude to such a project. As for Jesus, I think He provides the perfect example of the necessary sacrifices. And the Holy Spirit, should it invade our hearts, engenders the necessary love of God, and of His world, and of each other. Mine is a political theory on Earth, and a moral theory on Heaven, and I believe the two to be inextricably linked.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 3rd, 2015, 3:34 pm
by Dash jones
I consider myself a pretty good scholar on our Mormon friends, though I don't know everything as many of them do by experience.

In that I would have one consider the following question.

Is Sunlight earned or given?

Can you buy the Sun?

Can you prevent the entire world from having sunlight?

Or is this something that the laws of nature currently govern, that the Earth get's it's share of sunlight as it revolves around the sun, each part getting sunlight as nature runs it's course?

Looking at being "saved" as sunlight, as the Savior should be the light of the world...it is free for anyone to enjoy if they stand in it.

That is the key though, in order to feel the sunlight, you must actually be somewhere IN the sunlight. Either directly, or via a window, or someplace where the light penetrates.

YOU can separate yourself from sunlight through choices or actions. You could build a strong enclosed building without any windows in the hope that no sunlight would ever penetrate it. You could go deep underground into caves in the thought that you would avoid all sunlight. There are many actions you could take to actively avoid sunlight. Perhaps others have taken actions to put you where you will not experience sunlight.

In those instances, you have to make a choice to exit those places if you wish to experience the light/sunlight.

YOU must take action to do that. This does not mean sunlight is limited, or that it is not free, it merely means that you or others have taken actions that will make you either feel and see sunlight or not.

By doing these actions have you "earned" sunlight?

Or is it just as free and prevalent on the Earth as it always has been? You don't "earn" sunlight, but through you actions you can choose whether you will be in the sunlight or out of it.

In my view of Mormon ideas, I think their idea follows that idea. You don't earn the light. It is freely given. However, you must take action in order to be IN the light. All of us sin (build that wall without any windows, or try to bury our sins in caves far away from the light), and have taken actions to avoid the light. They are our own choices. This doesn't mean sunlight won't eventually break down those walls, or break through cracks in the caves...but we have through our actions tried to prevent it. The light is STILL waiting for us, all we have to do is abandon those walls we have built (other religions sometimes call this a change of heart where we are no longer willing to be a part of that sin and have our hearts continually turned towards things of heaven).

This is not earning, but turning away from the actions that we've tried to do to hide away from the light in the first place. It is choosing to be in the light, rather than build walls against it.

In Mormonism, there are some rules in regards to this. One would be Baptism and repentance. Choosing to stop building those wall (regret building them in the first place). Next would be to resist new sin (or building new walls). Third, there may be ordinances beyond that (getting out of the shadows or the caves which you are sheltered in and where you built those walls to further cement you from the light...or maybe it's building a rocket ship to send you directly to the sun or something...depends on how ferocious you see getting into the light one feels they are getting).

However, in any instance, even though they feel there must be actions taken, the light itself is free.

Many religions (beyond Mormons) feel this way. Some feel that you merely have to accept (which is an action) and it is given (though another action is the change of heart, which shows if one is REALLY saved...or not...where one no longer has that desire to sin/build those walls).

Some have it more extensive in what one does to tear down the walls (as Catholicism). However, almost all of them would agree the light is free and not earned, it is our actions which drive us to hide from the light, and hence action is needed to change that course and put us back into the light.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 3rd, 2015, 9:28 pm
by Jason
zionminded wrote:
Jason wrote:
O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/9.41?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Spiritually yes absolutely, physically no. Christ won't be turning people away at the "gate", he will be begging people to stay. We think heaven is like this:

Image

But it is really more like this:

Image
Certainly some different perspectives on it. That said, we know for absolute surety...
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/eph/5.5?lang=eng#4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wherefore, if ye have sought to do wickedly in the days of your probation, then ye are found unclean before the judgment-seat of God; and no unclean thing can dwell with God; wherefore, ye must be cast off forever.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-n ... ang=eng#20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.

And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.

And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-n ... ang=eng#18" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.

And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

For the names of the righteous shall be written in the book of life, and unto them will I grant an inheritance at my right hand. And now, my brethren, what have ye to say against this? I say unto you, if ye speak against it, it matters not, for the word of God must be fulfilled.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alm ... ang=eng#56" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's been pretty clear a time or two...or three or four or five....and so on...

Some folks say you can't be saved by your works....but the scriptures surely state that we will be judged by our works and damned accordingly if we are filthy.
And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alm ... ang=eng#36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I perceive that it has been made known unto you, by the testimony of his word, that he cannot walk in crooked paths; neither doth he vary from that which he hath said; neither hath he a shadow of turning from the right to the left, or from that which is right to that which is wrong; therefore, his course is one eternal round.

And he doth not dwell in unholy temples; neither can filthiness or anything which is unclean be received into the kingdom of God; therefore I say unto you the time shall come, yea, and it shall be at the last day, that he who is filthy shall remain in his filthiness.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alm ... ang=eng#20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And now, my son, this is the restoration of which has been spoken by the mouths of the prophets—

And then shall the righteous shine forth in the kingdom of God.

But behold, an awful death cometh upon the wicked; for they die as to things pertaining to things of righteousness; for they are unclean, and no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of God; but they are cast out, and consigned to partake of the fruits of their labors or their works, which have been evil; and they drink the dregs of a bitter cup.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alm ... ang=eng#25" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-cor ... ang=eng#16" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Therefore be ye also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.

Who, then, is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Blessed is that servant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord delayeth his coming,

And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-m ... ang=eng#53" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/ ... ang=eng#50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/ ... ang=eng#41" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And it came to pass that I said unto them that it was a representation of things both temporal and spiritual; for the day should come that they must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.

Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their works; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.

But behold, I say unto you, the kingdom of God is not filthy, and there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy.

And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the devil is the preparator of it; wherefore the final state of the souls of men is to dwell in the kingdom of God, or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken.

Wherefore, the wicked are rejected from the righteous, and also from that tree of life, whose fruit is most precious and most desirable above all other fruits; yea, and it is the greatest of all the gifts of God. And thus I spake unto my brethren. Amen.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-n ... ang=eng#33" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The time shall come when all shall see the salvation of the Lord; when every nation, kindred, tongue, and people shall see eye to eye and shall confess before God that his judgments are just.

And then shall the wicked be cast out, and they shall have cause to howl, and weep, and wail, and gnash their teeth; and this because they would not hearken unto the voice of the Lord; therefore the Lord redeemeth them not.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mos ... lang=eng#1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God;

While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning.

And all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.


These things I say not of myself; therefore, as the Lord speaketh, he will also fulfil.

And they who are of the High Priesthood, whose names are not found written in the book of the law, or that are found to have apostatized, or to have been cut off from the church, as well as the lesser priesthood, or the members, in that day shall not find an inheritance among the saints of the Most High;

Therefore, it shall be done unto them as unto the children of the priest, as will be found recorded in the second chapter and sixty-first and second verses of Ezra.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... lang=eng#8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And upon them that hearken not to the voice of the Lord shall be fulfilled that which was written by the prophet Moses, that they should be cut off from among the people.

For, behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

And this shall ye have of my hand—ye shall lie down in sorrow.

Behold, and lo, there are none to deliver you; for ye obeyed not my voice when I called to you out of the heavens; ye believed not my servants, and when they were sent unto you ye received them not.

Wherefore, they sealed up the testimony and bound up the law, and ye were delivered over unto darkness.

These shall go away into outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth.

Behold the Lord your God hath spoken it. Amen.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... ang=eng#72" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 3rd, 2015, 10:25 pm
by zionminded
yeah not sure what to make of that quote-a-thone

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 3rd, 2015, 10:44 pm
by Zathura
This topic is yet another reason why It's important to assure that you've been born again and received the Holy Ghost. When you receive this remission of sins and this anointing from God, you take more interest in Grace, and what it means. With the guidance of the Spirit, you can better understand how it is that we may be saved. We do not earn anything.
We will never deserve anything based on our works because we are fallen and always will be until God lifts us up at the last day. Even if you try your hardest for a year or 10 years or 50, you may have grown immensely, but your own righteousness will still get you nothing. It's all on God. This is why we cry until him for mercy without ceasing until God hears our prayer and sees our repentance and broken heart, and visits us with fire and the Holy Ghost. Then we are on the path. After this, it is still through God's grace that we are saved, and that is all because of our Faith in Jesus Christ.

Following our Savior's teachings becomes a part of us as we grow, and we understand more and more how wretched and fallen we are, and we depend more and more on God, and realize more and more that works don't earn us anything, even though we probably perform more works the more sanctified we become. Our works are a result of our faith in Christ, and we do them because we love him, no other reason.

Dieter Uchtdorf's talk on grace called "The Gift of Grace" was incredible. I loved it.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's the link.

Re: About Heaven

Posted: November 3rd, 2015, 10:46 pm
by Zathura
"However, I wonder if sometimes we misinterpret the phrase “after all we can do.” We must understand that “after” does not equal “because.”

We are not saved “because” of all that we can do. Have any of us done all that we can do? Does God wait until we’ve expended every effort before He will intervene in our lives with His saving grace?" Dieter Uchtdorf