LDS Freedom Forum

Hogmeister wrote:
I take it that you do not believe that wisdom and knowledge should correlate to temporal success. On the other hand, great way to avoid the subject. ;)

No. You're right. I don't. One can be wise, and rich. (Solomon) One can be wise, and poor. (Jesus) One can be foolish, and rich (Trump). One can be foolish, and poor (History forgets such as these, but I am a good candidate)

Truth is wisdom and wealth do not correlate, at all. Indeed, wisdom tends to pursue more valuable goals than personal wealth.

Cheers, 2RM.

Why do you think God gives blessings when we do good and give cursings when we do evil? If we continually were made equal (as the socialist/communist beast system wants to) we would not recieve the proper feedback for our lifes choices. And look at the state we're in. The sound feedback loop in any area is destroyed by earthly governments distributing wealth by theft.

Not to say there ar plenty of ill-gotten wealth in this world but that is just temporary.

Hmmm. I believe in a redeeming God, who saves us despite our sins. Likewise, I believe in a redeeming society, that rescues us despite our mistakes.

Which is not to say the poor are necessarily poor through their own decisions. More likely, they are poor from their unchosen circumstances.

Best wishes, 2RM

Hogmeister,

While I do agree that we do receive blessings when we do good, and those who do evil will also pay for their evil (assuming they know the evil they do).That being said, this is a world in which we face trials. Remember John 9

1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Therefore it is not obvious what part of life is part of the trial of life and what part of life is a result of our own works. For that matter what part of life is the result of someone else's bad behavior. For example if I beat you up and rob you, you will still be bloody and broke even though it isn't your fault.

We also, have different opportunities as a result of our family and country of births. For example I live in Pennsylvania, and 2ndRateMind lives in Great Britain. and I was BIC in the LDS church and he wasn't. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but they are certainly Different environments and opportunities.

The fact of the matter our fate and situation is a combination of both uncontrollable events and choices we make.

We need to be very careful not to judge another's guilt or praise for their situation because none of us know.

Regards,

George Clay

2ndRateMind,

You Said:

Hmmm. I believe in a redeeming God, who saves us despite our sins. Likewise, I believe in a redeeming society, that rescues us despite our mistakes.

I know you are not LDS, so you do not know LDS theology. However, according to our belief, God saves the Repentant who accepts Christ as their savior, but one must be repentant in order to be saved.

As far as your belief in a redeeming society, I challenge you to name one society that actually saves. It is a socialist fantasy often described as "Social Justice" that such a society could exist, but every time it is tried, it actually creates hell on earth.

Best put your faith in Jesus Christ, and try to follow his commandments and not hope for any salvation from government or the society at large.

Regards

George Clay

2ndRateMind wrote:

2EstablishZion wrote:

2ndRateMind wrote:So, this thread has gone a little quiet, for a while. Can I take it then, that we are all in agreement about the radical redistribution of wealth, from where it buys luxury, to where it satisfies need?

Best wishes, 2RM

No.

And your rationale would be?

According to Oxfam, the 80 richest people in the world have the same amount of wealth as the 3,500,000,000 poorest. This is clearly obscene. I truly do not see how a Christian can accept the situation, and not choke on their communion wafer.

Cheers, 2RM.

My alter ego merely asserts that simply because your thread has gone quiet, you may not assume that we are all in agreement with you.
My rationale would be that while we may encourage the rich to assist with caring for the poor, stealing from them via government force or any other means is not only unethical, it has been shown countless times not to work. The free enterprise system, when adhered to, has been shown to lift anyone who is willing to work out of poverty (only decades of our current socialist regime has managed to do serious damage to the good previously done under the previous system. And of course those who absolutely CANNOT do for themselves need to be cared for - by voluntary assistance, not by "radical redistribution of wealth". History has shown that those doing the redistributing do more redistributing to their own pockets than to the poor - something that you can circumvent by redistributing your own wealth.

Original_Intent wrote:

2ndRateMind wrote:

2EstablishZion wrote:

2ndRateMind wrote:So, this thread has gone a little quiet, for a while. Can I take it then, that we are all in agreement about the radical redistribution of wealth, from where it buys luxury, to where it satisfies need?

Best wishes, 2RM

No.

And your rationale would be?

According to Oxfam, the 80 richest people in the world have the same amount of wealth as the 3,500,000,000 poorest. This is clearly obscene. I truly do not see how a Christian can accept the situation, and not choke on their communion wafer.

Cheers, 2RM.

My alter ego merely asserts that simply because your thread has gone quiet, you may not assume that we are all in agreement with you.
My rationale would be that while we may encourage the rich to assist with caring for the poor, stealing from them via government force or any other means is not only unethical, it has been shown countless times not to work. The free enterprise system, when adhered to, has been shown to lift anyone who is willing to work out of poverty (only decades of our current socialist regime has managed to do serious damage to the good previously done under the previous system. And of course those who absolutely CANNOT do for themselves need to be cared for - by voluntary assistance, not by "radical redistribution of wealth". History has shown that those doing the redistributing do more redistributing to their own pockets than to the poor - something that you can circumvent by redistributing your own wealth.

Well, dear Original_Intent, (or should that be, Alter_Ego?) were you to read the thread, instead of leaping to defensive conclusions, you might even discover that all that is pretty much what the discussion is all about, and we don't disagree on principle, after all.

Best wishes, 2RM.

gclayjr wrote:2ndRateMind,

You Said:

Hmmm. I believe in a redeeming God, who saves us despite our sins. Likewise, I believe in a redeeming society, that rescues us despite our mistakes.

I know you are not LDS, so you do not know LDS theology. However, according to our belief, God saves the Repentant who accepts Christ as their savior, but one must be repentant in order to be saved.

As far as your belief in a redeeming society, I challenge you to name one society that actually saves. It is a socialist fantasy often described as "Social Justice" that such a society could exist, but every time it is tried, it actually creates hell on earth.

Best put your faith in Jesus Christ, and try to follow his commandments and not hope for any salvation from government or the society at large.

Regards

George Clay

George, I did not say society saves, and I do not mean that societies can save, in the spiritual sense. On this, I am sure we are agreed. What societies can do, however, is rescue us from our mistakes, which is what I said. The rehabilitation of offenders is an example. Bankruptcy laws are an example. Less extremely, the capacity to accept an apology, and forget some petty trespass against us, is an example. Insofar as society thus redeems us, it represents God, and it prepares us for the all important redemption that Christians know Christ offers.

Best wishes, 2RM.