Nothing more, nothing less, Christ's Doctrine

[Zathura]

All roles and duties serve to fulfill this primary purpose of all true prophets of Jesus Christ, that is to feed His sheep. Temple work is symbolizing your life, which is the real ordinance and which requires true repentence and true broken heart and true contrite spirit, not symbolically. It is about being saved by being baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost. The purpose of the temple is to teach us how we can converse with the Lord through the veil so that we can enter back in to His presence.
Everything a Prophet does will be for the purpose of bringing souls to Christ by teaching them how they can receive their baptism by fire and Holy Spirit.


-Finrock

All those who have been baptized by fire know where their salvation came from and know who it is that is resonsible for it. It is no man. This may shatter someone's faith but it will be good to be shattered, but there are no special chosen ones who will save us or who we can look to in the coming times and tribulations.

God is Supreme, forever and ever and His Son Jesus Christ!

-Finrock

Finrock has declared the Doctrine of Christ, this doctrine was declared by Nephi. We are not to teach anything MORE or LESS than this. How can we say the Book of Mormon has the fullness of the Gospel if the BoM does not have anything about temple ordinances?
Because Temple ordinances only symbolize the real thing, the fullness of the Gospel. The real thing is in the BoM. The temple teaches that we can be washed and receive an anointing, the Holy Ghost, which will lead us, and through God's Spirit we gain priesthood power. As we continue on this path we can pierce the veil and receive a fullness, and more priesthood power.
This is the Doctrine of Christ, this is what Nephi spoke of. Why do we teach more than this? Why do we teach less than this? Why do we make the same mistake that the Jews made, and convince ourselves that physical ordinances save us?

The prophets of old sought to help man repent and be Born Again, that he may receive the Holy Ghost and progress until the point that he too may pierce the veil and be redeemed. This is the purpose of prophets, this was the desire of their hearts. John's desire wasn't to stand at the head of a hierarchy and hold keys, he wanted to preach the Gospel and help others come unto Christ being born of God. Alma gave the reason for working unceasingly. He worked in order than all may be born of God, and receive the Holy Ghost.

Your Endowment is not the signs and tokens, or the "new name" they give you. The endowment is a spiritual experience, a powerful one that can come in the Temple, or out of it afterwards. It is an endowment of power not unlike the baptism of fire one receives from God, and comes with an unforgettable experience.

This is the doctrine of Christ. It's so simple.A man must seek God, study, pray and reach the depths of humility, becoming truly broken and contrite. God will then visit that man with fire and the Holy Ghost, and quicken the inner man. That man will be born again, receiving an anointing( The Holy Ghost) and some gifts of the Spirit. Only then has this man entered in by the way, and is on the strait and narrow path. At the end of this path is the veil that man may pierce, and enter into the presence of the Lord.

I may be mistaken on many things, I may have an opinion on many things, but these things that I have spoken in this post I know. They have been confirmed to me through experiences that cannot be explained or understood except by those who have had the same experiences. Not warm fuzzy feelings, not just a hot feeling in my chest when I prayed about something or read something, but by the power of the Holy Ghost.

This is the gospel we need to proclaim, nothing more, nothing less. This is the doctrine that will bring others to Christ. Helping another soul be born of God is what brings enormous joy to your own soul. You cannot truly be converted to Christ without receiving the baptism of Fire and being born again.

Take from this post what you will, this is one of the very few things I have a perfect knowledge of, and it's my testimony that I will declare until the day I die.

If you think you're converted to Christ, stop and think. If you think you've been born of God, stop and think. Peter was not converted and born again throughout the whole 4 Gospels. after he had seen many miracles and the resurrection of Christ, he still wasn't converted, still hadn't been born again. It wasn't until the day of Pentecosts that he received an endowment from on high and was truly converted to Jesus. It wasn't until then that he could boldly testify of Christ without fear of what man would do to him. If he wasn't converted after all that, how about you? Am i Converted? Have I been spiritually begotten? Your salvation depends on this, it'd serve you well to ask yourself these questions.

p.s. I post this mostly for any lurkers who come here looking for help on their path to God, who have come across questions in their scripture study.

[Zathura]

Alma 7:14
Now I say unto you that ye must repent, and be born again; for the Spirit saith if ye are not born again ye cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye may be washed from your sins, that ye may have faith on the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, who is mighty to save and to cleanse from all unrighteousness.

[rewcox]

Couple of points.

The standard works have thousand of pages. You are missing the point if you say it is one scripture or a couple of pages.

A person who has been born again has the spirit with them. They feel love and charity and act that way, including how they converse about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and its leaders.

[Zathura]

:ymhug: Thanks for the input <3

[Zathura]

Couple of points.

The standard works have thousand of pages. You are missing the point if you say it is one scripture or a couple of pages.

A person who has been born again has the spirit with them. They feel love and charity and act that way, including how they converse about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and its leaders.

When they asked Jesus what the greatest commandment was, he essentially summarized everything into 2 simple statements"Love your GOd, and Love your Neighbor", apparently ignoring the THOUSANDS OF PAGES of the "standard works"by your logic.
And more importantly, Jesus declared his doctrine in the Book of Mormon.

3 Nephi 11:35-40

35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.

36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.

37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.

38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.

39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

This is what the Savior summarized HIS doctrine into, I follow his example.

I declare the Doctrine of Christ as well, nothing more, nothing less, with God as my witness.

It's very simple. I've missed nothing in my statements in this post, it is the doctrine of Christ. You can add to it or take from it if you wish.

[rewcox]

You can ignore the Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't.

[ben]

Stahura, so you accept that the Prophet helped to bring forth the BofM through translation of it. You accept and feel the wittness of truths contained within its pages. Stahura, what of this prophet, even Joseph Smith Jr? What of the open cannon of revelation he received in regards to the necessity of temple ordinances? Further, and maybe most importantly, have you with in the holy setting of the temple, felt the power of God and the love from those on the other side of the veil pour out their gratitude to you for the work being done for them? By the way, I couldn't agree more about the necessity of being born of God.

[Obrien]

You can ignore the Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't.

If you've experienced the rebirth stahura is showing you, you CAN'T ignore the Sermon on the Mount - it is an integral part of YOU. You don't have to try and incorporate those teachings into your life, they are ingrained in you as a result of the Grace of Christ and the cleansing of the HG.

[rewcox]

You can ignore the Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't.

If you've experienced the rebirth stahura is showing you, you CAN'T ignore the Sermon on the Mount - it is an integral part of YOU. You don't have to try and incorporate those teachings into your life, they are ingrained in you as a result of the Grace of Christ and the cleansing of the HG.

I agree. Again, you can see the fruit and tell if someone has been born again.

[Jason]

Nephi didn't disclose all...and was instructed not to continue at a point. Same with others...and we know they built temples for temple worship (i.e. Covenants and promises)

Probably something along the lines of pearls and swine....and out of love for the swine...why curse them them with greater knowledge and accountability they aren't capable of obedience to???

There's also that interesting point throughout the Book of Mormon that as soon as folks started down the path to repentance they sought the physical ordinance of being baptized by one in authority...not to mention the example that Christ Himself set....and subsequently commanded as well as all the rest of the physical ordinances and associated priesthood authority.

I don't believe you can separate the two. The scriptures don't portray that either to my knowledge unless you toss 99.9% which we know has been preserved through the ages for our benefit. Why do the physical ordinances by priesthood authority for the dead if you can get there without them?

Look at Christ's visit to America...along with the B-attitudes (doctrine) He also established organization with priesthood authority and instructed on ordinances. Authority that continued until Mormon and subsequently Moroni were taken.

I just don't believe you can separate those two...nor do I believe you can cut yourself off from the Holy Priesthood and associated authority, keys, ordinances, and revelation and get there. Attempting the impossible...

Why impossible? One can take to heart 10% of the words/actions of Christ but without 100% just not going to get there. A hard reality...but a reality nonetheless! If the destination takes a full tank of gas...10% isn't going to get you to the destination. You can get out and kick the tires, curse the motor, attempt to get some folks to stop and join you for company, try to borrow some gas...but you aren't going to get to the destination.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is Christ's restored church upon the earth with the restoration of doctrine and the requisite priesthood authority to conduct the necessary ordinances for salvation. Whether perceived or actual warts, pimples, and all....its the vehicle. One can try and bypass it but the reality is you aren't going to get to the destination. Just the reality at the end of the day. Love it, like it, or leave it....a continuation of priesthood keys, authority, and revelation restored to the earth beginning with a visit from God the Father and His son Jesus Christ to the young lad Joseph Smith. The fulfillment of prophecy and the last attempt in the vineyard prior to the burning...

I reckon though some folks will always try to get there by their own means...

[Jonesy]

I think this was what Pres. Uchtdorf's message was all about; that we should all turn to "the simplicity that is in Christ".

Alma posed similar questions to Church members in Zarahemla when he asked: “Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts? … [And] can [you] feel [it] now?” Such contemplation may help us to refocus or realign our daily efforts with the divine plan of salvation.

...I wonder if we as Church members might also benefit from asking ourselves from time to time: “Is my experience in the Church working for me? Is it bringing me closer to Christ? Is it blessing me and my family with peace and joy as promised in the gospel?” (2015 October General Conference, It Works Wonderfully!, Sat. Morning Session - By Dieter F. Uchtdorf)

I'm very much an introvert, and I get so bogged down by all the social events sometimes. But everything is really what I make of it. If we seek social support in our journey, we can find it. If we want the truth and all the desired blessings, we can find that too. It's whatever we make of it. The simplicity is there.

[Zathura]

You can ignore the Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't.

Where did I ignore the sermon on the mount?

Jesus apparently "ignored" his own sermon on the scripture I posted above when he declared his doctrine and said that it was nothing more or less than he declared. I copied my Savior.

The sermon on the mount are teachings we all need to follow to cenunto Christ and become one, but the sermon on the mount is not the doctrine of Christ. The doctrine of Christ is exactly what Christ declared it to be, nothing more, and nothing less.

[Zathura]

I think this was what Pres. Uchtdorf's message was all about; that we should all turn to "the simplicity that is in Christ".

Alma posed similar questions to Church members in Zarahemla when he asked: “Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts? … [And] can [you] feel [it] now?” Such contemplation may help us to refocus or realign our daily efforts with the divine plan of salvation.

...I wonder if we as Church members might also benefit from asking ourselves from time to time: “Is my experience in the Church working for me? Is it bringing me closer to Christ? Is it blessing me and my family with peace and joy as promised in the gospel?” (2015 October General Conference, It Works Wonderfully!, Sat. Morning Session - By Dieter F. Uchtdorf)

I'm very much an introvert, and I get so bogged down by all the social events sometimes. But everything is really what I make of it. If we seek social support in our journey, we can find it. If we want the truth and all the desired blessings, we can find that too. It's whatever we make of it. The simplicity is there.

Exactly, we make it more complicated than it is.

We need to repent and become like a little child until we become broken. God will then visit us with fire and the Holy Ghost, and thus we are spiritually begotten, and receive this mighty change. This Is the doctrine of Christ.

[ben]

I think this was what Pres. Uchtdorf's message was all about; that we should all turn to "the simplicity that is in Christ".

Alma posed similar questions to Church members in Zarahemla when he asked: “Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts? … [And] can [you] feel [it] now?” Such contemplation may help us to refocus or realign our daily efforts with the divine plan of salvation.

...I wonder if we as Church members might also benefit from asking ourselves from time to time: “Is my experience in the Church working for me? Is it bringing me closer to Christ? Is it blessing me and my family with peace and joy as promised in the gospel?” (2015 October General Conference, It Works Wonderfully!, Sat. Morning Session - By Dieter F. Uchtdorf)

I'm very much an introvert, and I get so bogged down by all the social events sometimes. But everything is really what I make of it. If we seek social support in our journey, we can find it. If we want the truth and all the desired blessings, we can find that too. It's whatever we make of it. The simplicity is there.

Exactly, we make it more complicated than it is.

We need to repent and become like a little child until we become broken. God will then visit us with fire and the Holy Ghost, and thus we are spiritually begotten, and receive this mighty change. This Is the doctrine of Christ.

[Zathura]

Nephi didn't disclose all...and was instructed not to continue at a point. Same with others...and we know they built temples for temple worship (i.e. Covenants and promises)

Probably something along the lines of pearls and swine....and out of love for the swine...why curse them them with greater knowledge and accountability they aren't capable of obedience to???

There's also that interesting point throughout the Book of Mormon that as soon as folks started down the path to repentance they sought the physical ordinance of being baptized by one in authority...not to mention the example that Christ Himself set....and subsequently commanded as well as all the rest of the physical ordinances and associated priesthood authority.

I don't believe you can separate the two. The scriptures don't portray that either to my knowledge unless you toss 99.9% which we know has been preserved through the ages for our benefit. Why do the physical ordinances by priesthood authority for the dead if you can get there without them?

Look at Christ's visit to America...along with the B-attitudes (doctrine) He also established organization with priesthood authority and instructed on ordinances. Authority that continued until Mormon and subsequently Moroni were taken.

I just don't believe you can separate those two...nor do I believe you can cut yourself off from the Holy Priesthood and associated authority, keys, ordinances, and revelation and get there. Attempting the impossible...

Why impossible? One can take to heart 10% of the words/actions of Christ but without 100% just not going to get there. A hard reality...but a reality nonetheless! If the destination takes a full tank of gas...10% isn't going to get you to the destination. You can get out and kick the tires, curse the motor, attempt to get some folks to stop and join you for company, try to borrow some gas...but you aren't going to get to the destination.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is Christ's restored church upon the earth with the restoration of doctrine and the requisite priesthood authority to conduct the necessary ordinances for salvation. Whether perceived or actual warts, pimples, and all....its the vehicle. One can try and bypass it but the reality is you aren't going to get to the destination. Just the reality at the end of the day. Love it, like it, or leave it....a continuation of priesthood keys, authority, and revelation restored to the earth beginning with a visit from God the Father and His son Jesus Christ to the young lad Joseph Smith. The fulfillment of prophecy and the last attempt in the vineyard prior to the burning...

I reckon though some folks will always try to get there by their own means...

I liked this post.

Something that always made me think though is the lack of scriptures on the priesthood in the BoM beyond Alma 13.We make the assumption that Jesus gave the priesthood to his disciples and they gave it to others and so on and so forth, but that was never actually said. Just like we assume that Jesus ordained all of the Apostles in the New Testament and they ordained others, although there isn' t a scripture to support this. Jesus gave them the power to give the Holy Ghost in 3rd Nephi, thats it. They ordained teachers and priests by the power of the Spirit, nothing about the priesthood is mentioned. In Joseph's day they did the same thing, they ordained them teachers and priests without mentioning priesthood, or the authority of the priesthood.
I don't know what this means, but I think there a reason it was this way, I just don't know what that reason is.
There is some sort of huge connection between the Spirit of God and priesthood.
My opinion is true priesthood power comes from the Spirit of God, not from ordination from man to man. Ordination from man to man does little but to place certain people in positions in a hierarchy so that order may be in place. I had this opinion long before I ever heard of people like Denver teaching it.

The things youre talking about are obviously important, but it's not the doctrine of Christ. That's my only point. Jesus didn't find it necessary to mention priesthood keys or his sermon on the mount or anything else from the thousands of pages of the "standard works" of his day, he made his doctrine very clear and very simple, and said it's evil to preach that his doctrine is anything more or less than what he declared. He didn't leave any gray area to interpret it any differently. It's repent and become like a little child (being baptized in water is a way to show submission and humility like a child) and God will visit you with fire and the Holy Ghost. Period. Nephi explained the exact same thing, and said only then are you on the strait and narrow path.

[rewcox]

You can ignore the Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't.

Where did I ignore the sermon on the mount?

Jesus apparently "ignored" his own sermon on the scripture I posted above when he declared his doctrine and said that it was nothing more or less than he declared. I copied my Savior.

The sermon on the mount are teachings we all need to follow to cenunto Christ and become one, but the sermon on the mount is not the doctrine of Christ. The doctrine of Christ is exactly what Christ declared it to be, nothing more, and nothing less.

If Christ spoke it, it is his doctrine. The sermon on the mount is the path to being born again...

[Zathura]

You can ignore the Sermon on the Mount, I wouldn't.

Where did I ignore the sermon on the mount?

Jesus apparently "ignored" his own sermon on the scripture I posted above when he declared his doctrine and said that it was nothing more or less than he declared. I copied my Savior.

The sermon on the mount are teachings we all need to follow to cenunto Christ and become one, but the sermon on the mount is not the doctrine of Christ. The doctrine of Christ is exactly what Christ declared it to be, nothing more, and nothing less.

If Christ spoke it, it is his doctrine. The sermon on the mount is the path to being born again...

Christ specifically said what his doctrine is.

I like that a lot! "The sermon on the mount is the path to being born again". I like it.
Like Obrien said, the things taught in the sermon become a part of a person who is born again and receives a mighty change of heart. It doesn't require as much sacrifice and effort to do the things the sermon tells us to do, because it becomes an integral part of who you are. God turns you into a new person.

[Zathura]

Not everything Christ said automatically becomes his doctrine. His doctrine is simple, and he declared it.

He prophecied of tribulations. Is that doctrine? No, it's just a prophecy.
He told a man to sell his possessions and give it to the poor. Is that doctrine? No, it was only him teaching that we need to care about the poor and part into them our possessions, and value christ above earthly things. Just a teaching.
When he said he is one with the Father, he is teaching pure truths to help us understand his relationship with God. It's not a part of his doctrine, because he specifically said what his doctrine is, and it's very simple, has very few parts to it, and specifically said that it's NOTHING more or less that what he declared in that moment. The doctrine of Christ is simple.
All other teachings are truths, but are not the doctrine of Christ.

[Jason]

Nephi didn't disclose all...and was instructed not to continue at a point. Same with others...and we know they built temples for temple worship (i.e. Covenants and promises)

Probably something along the lines of pearls and swine....and out of love for the swine...why curse them them with greater knowledge and accountability they aren't capable of obedience to???

There's also that interesting point throughout the Book of Mormon that as soon as folks started down the path to repentance they sought the physical ordinance of being baptized by one in authority...not to mention the example that Christ Himself set....and subsequently commanded as well as all the rest of the physical ordinances and associated priesthood authority.

I don't believe you can separate the two. The scriptures don't portray that either to my knowledge unless you toss 99.9% which we know has been preserved through the ages for our benefit. Why do the physical ordinances by priesthood authority for the dead if you can get there without them?

Look at Christ's visit to America...along with the B-attitudes (doctrine) He also established organization with priesthood authority and instructed on ordinances. Authority that continued until Mormon and subsequently Moroni were taken.

I just don't believe you can separate those two...nor do I believe you can cut yourself off from the Holy Priesthood and associated authority, keys, ordinances, and revelation and get there. Attempting the impossible...

Why impossible? One can take to heart 10% of the words/actions of Christ but without 100% just not going to get there. A hard reality...but a reality nonetheless! If the destination takes a full tank of gas...10% isn't going to get you to the destination. You can get out and kick the tires, curse the motor, attempt to get some folks to stop and join you for company, try to borrow some gas...but you aren't going to get to the destination.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is Christ's restored church upon the earth with the restoration of doctrine and the requisite priesthood authority to conduct the necessary ordinances for salvation. Whether perceived or actual warts, pimples, and all....its the vehicle. One can try and bypass it but the reality is you aren't going to get to the destination. Just the reality at the end of the day. Love it, like it, or leave it....a continuation of priesthood keys, authority, and revelation restored to the earth beginning with a visit from God the Father and His son Jesus Christ to the young lad Joseph Smith. The fulfillment of prophecy and the last attempt in the vineyard prior to the burning...

I reckon though some folks will always try to get there by their own means...

I liked this post.

Something that always made me think though is the lack of scriptures on the priesthood in the BoM beyond Alma 13.We make the assumption that Jesus gave the priesthood to his disciples and they gave it to others and so on and so forth, but that was never actually said. Just like we assume that Jesus ordained all of the Apostles in the New Testament and they ordained others, although there isn' t a scripture to support this. Jesus gave them the power to give the Holy Ghost in 3rd Nephi, thats it. They ordained teachers and priests by the power of the Spirit, nothing about the priesthood is mentioned. In Joseph's day they did the same thing, they ordained them teachers and priests without mentioning priesthood, or the authority of the priesthood.
I don't know what this means, but I think there a reason it was this way, I just don't know what that reason is.
There is some sort of huge connection between the Spirit of God and priesthood.
My opinion is true priesthood power comes from the Spirit of God, not from ordination from man to man. Ordination from man to man does little but to place certain people in positions in a hierarchy so that order may be in place. I had this opinion long before I ever heard of people like Denver teaching it.

The things youre talking about are obviously important, but it's not the doctrine of Christ. That's my only point. Jesus didn't find it necessary to mention priesthood keys or his sermon on the mount or anything else from the thousands of pages of the "standard works" of his day, he made his doctrine very clear and very simple, and said it's evil to preach that his doctrine is anything more or less than what he declared. He didn't leave any gray area to interpret it any differently. It's repent and become like a little child (being baptized in water is a way to show submission and humility like a child) and God will visit you with fire and the Holy Ghost. Period. Nephi explained the exact same thing, and said only then are you on the strait and narrow path.

Agree to disagree. It may not be explicit in every case in the scriptures...but part of the restoration involved John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John coming and laying on of hands to confer the priesthood upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1996/12/the- ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also when Christ returned Nephi who was made head of the Quorum of the 12 at that point...was the prophet prior and Christ appeared to the 2000 at the temple. To my knowledge there wasn't a need to ordain the apostles to the priesthood which they already held. Also I think it is quite logical to make the connection of the Priesthood that is inseparably connected to the Spirit of God considering the body of scriptural history both before and after that point. You wouldn't even have the account in 3rd Nephi if it wasn't for God the Father and His son Jesus Christ appearing to Joseph Smith...and all of the subsequent parts of the restoration down to the present day and the resultant broad distribution of the Book of Mormon....which also includes detailed descriptions of the Priesthood and use thereof.

What I am saying is you cannot separate the doctrine from the ordinances and get to the destination of salvation. Its impossible. That's what I interpret you are suggesting.

It is also impossible to conduct the ordinances without the priesthood and requisite authority. There appears to be this perception amongst a number of members on here that somehow they can just merely believe and have love...and somehow that will get them there. If that were true there would be no need to establish a church (how many times since Adam?) throughout the dispensations and the Holy Priesthood of God to conduct the saving ordinances. Now will the saving ordinances get you there in isolation from living the doctrine...absolutely not. It is the combination....hence the efforts to teach the doctrine & conduct the ordinances - both the living and the dead. With priesthood authority directly from the Savior to the masses via an orderly manner as instructed by the Savior to the prophet Joseph Smith. And currently embodied in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. You cannot obtain salvation without it.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

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Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb of God, which should take away the sins of the world.

And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water!

And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water?

Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient unto him in keeping his commandments.

Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove.

And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example before them.

And he said unto the children of men: Follow thou me. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, can we follow Jesus save we shall be willing to keep the commandments of the Father?

And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.

And also, the voice of the Son came unto me, saying: He that is baptized in my name, to him will the Father give the Holy Ghost, like unto me; wherefore, follow me, and do the things which ye have seen me do.

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, witnessing unto the Father that ye are willing to take upon you the name of Christ, by baptism—yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

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Now I say unto you that ye must repent, and be born again; for the Spirit saith if ye are not born again ye cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye may be washed from your sins, that ye may have faith on the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, who is mighty to save and to cleanse from all unrighteousness.

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And the Lord said unto him: I give unto you power that ye shall baptize this people when I am again ascended into heaven.

And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you.

Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them.

And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying:

Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water.

And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-n ... ng=eng&#17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Baptism is to be administered in the following manner unto all those who repent—

The person who is called of God and has authority from Jesus Christ to baptize, shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism, and shall say, calling him or her by name: Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

Then shall he immerse him or her in the water, and come forth again out of the water.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... ang=eng#72" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The order of this priesthood was confirmed to be handed down from father to son, and rightly belongs to the literal descendants of the chosen seed, to whom the promises were made.

This order was instituted in the days of Adam, and came down by lineage in the following manner:

From Adam to Seth, who was ordained by Adam at the age of sixty-nine years, and was blessed by him three years previous to his (Adam’s) death, and received the promise of God by his father, that his posterity should be the chosen of the Lord, and that they should be preserved unto the end of the earth;

Because he (Seth) was a perfect man, and his likeness was the express likeness of his father, insomuch that he seemed to be like unto his father in all things, and could be distinguished from him only by his age.

Enos was ordained at the age of one hundred and thirty-four years and four months, by the hand of Adam.

God called upon Cainan in the wilderness in the fortieth year of his age; and he met Adam in journeying to the place Shedolamak. He was eighty-seven years old when he received his ordination.

Mahalaleel was four hundred and ninety-six years and seven days old when he was ordained by the hand of Adam, who also blessed him.

Jared was two hundred years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam, who also blessed him.

Enoch was twenty-five years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam; and he was sixty-five and Adam blessed him.

And he saw the Lord, and he walked with him, and was before his face continually; and he walked with God three hundred and sixty-five years, making him four hundred and thirty years old when he was translated.

Methuselah was one hundred years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam.

...

Then comes the High Priesthood, which is the greatest of all.

Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church;

Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.

From the same comes the administering of ordinances and blessings upon the church, by the laying on of the hands.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... ang=eng#39" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head.

And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/gen/4 ... ang=eng#13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And now it came to pass that after Alma had made an end of speaking unto the people of the church, which was established in the city of Zarahemla, he ordained priests and elders, by laying on his hands according to the order of God, to preside and watch over the church.

And it came to pass that whosoever did not belong to the church who repented of their sins were baptized unto repentance, and were received into the church.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/6.1?lang=eng#0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of ... ang=eng&#3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But now I give unto thee a commandment, that thou shalt baptize by water, and they shall receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, even as the apostles of old.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... lang=eng#5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And Moses did as the Lord commanded him: and he took Joshua, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation:

And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the Lord commanded by the hand of Moses.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/num/2 ... ng=eng&#17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-tim ... ng=eng&#13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/acts/ ... ang=eng#13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Zathura]

I wasn't really suggesting anything, only mentioning something I noticed during my studies. The Book of Mormon and the Bible don't emphasize the priesthood like we hear it emphasized today. Being born again was emphasized greatly in the Book of Mormon and the bible, and it's hardly emphasized on our day. It's just an observation, I think there's a reason for that. I just don't know what it is.

My point in this post is that the doctrine of Christ is often added to and taken from. Tenants are often called doctrine when they aren't doctrine at all.
Everything in the scriptures is good and is for our benefit, but Christ simply declared his doctrine in one moment so that we could not be mistaken as to what his doctrine is. Anything more or less that we add to his doctrine is evil, this is Christs words not mine.

[Jason]

I wasn't really suggesting anything, only mentioning something I noticed during my studies. The Book of Mormon and the Bible don't emphasize the priesthood like we hear it emphasized today. Being born again was emphasized greatly in the Book of Mormon and the bible, and it's hardly emphasized on our day. It's just an observation, I think there's a reason for that. I just don't know what it is.

My point in this post is that the doctrine of Christ is often added to and taken from. Tenants are often called doctrine when they aren't doctrine at all.
Everything in the scriptures is good and is for our benefit, but Christ simply declared his doctrine in one moment so that we could not be mistaken as to what his doctrine is. Anything more or less that we add to his doctrine is evil, this is Christs words not mine.

Interpretation is everything....some folks interpret the statements in Deuteronomy 4:2 & 12:32 and Revelation 22:18-19 to mean they don't need anything written after those points...

[Zathura]

I wasn't really suggesting anything, only mentioning something I noticed during my studies. The Book of Mormon and the Bible don't emphasize the priesthood like we hear it emphasized today. Being born again was emphasized greatly in the Book of Mormon and the bible, and it's hardly emphasized on our day. It's just an observation, I think there's a reason for that. I just don't know what it is.

My point in this post is that the doctrine of Christ is often added to and taken from. Tenants are often called doctrine when they aren't doctrine at all.
Everything in the scriptures is good and is for our benefit, but Christ simply declared his doctrine in one moment so that we could not be mistaken as to what his doctrine is. Anything more or less that we add to his doctrine is evil, this is Christs words not mine.

Interpretation is everything....some folks interpret the statements in Deuteronomy 4:2 & 12:32 and Revelation 22:18-19 to mean they don't need anything written after those points...

So when Jesus declares his doctrine in 5 short verses and says anybody who teaches any more or less than what he just declared is evil, he actually meant you can teach that his doctrine is more or less than what he said and it's okay?
There's nothing to interpret.

With Deuteronomy there's nothing to interpret also, you only need to look at the context. I'm very away that some things are symbolic some are literal, some have different interpretations. Some things aren't supposed to be interpreted. Thou shalt Not kill. Pretty simple.
My doctrine is a,b,c,d any one who says it's more than this is evil. Pretty simple.
He left no room for interpretation, he spoke in no parable

[rewcox]

I wasn't really suggesting anything, only mentioning something I noticed during my studies. The Book of Mormon and the Bible don't emphasize the priesthood like we hear it emphasized today. Being born again was emphasized greatly in the Book of Mormon and the bible, and it's hardly emphasized on our day. It's just an observation, I think there's a reason for that. I just don't know what it is.

My point in this post is that the doctrine of Christ is often added to and taken from. Tenants are often called doctrine when they aren't doctrine at all.
Everything in the scriptures is good and is for our benefit, but Christ simply declared his doctrine in one moment so that we could not be mistaken as to what his doctrine is. Anything more or less that we add to his doctrine is evil, this is Christs words not mine.

Interpretation is everything....some folks interpret the statements in Deuteronomy 4:2 & 12:32 and Revelation 22:18-19 to mean they don't need anything written after those points...

So when Jesus declares his doctrine in 5 short verses and says anybody who teaches any more or less than what he just declared is evil, he actually meant you can teach that his doctrine is more or less than what he said and it's okay?
There's nothing to interpret.

With Deuteronomy there's nothing to interpret also, you only need to look at the context. I'm very away that some things are symbolic some are literal, some have different interpretations. Some things aren't supposed to be interpreted. Thou shalt Not kill. Pretty simple.
My doctrine is a,b,c,d any one who says it's more than this is evil. Pretty simple.
He left no room for interpretation, he spoke in no parable

So what is your point Stahura?

[Jason]

I wasn't really suggesting anything, only mentioning something I noticed during my studies. The Book of Mormon and the Bible don't emphasize the priesthood like we hear it emphasized today. Being born again was emphasized greatly in the Book of Mormon and the bible, and it's hardly emphasized on our day. It's just an observation, I think there's a reason for that. I just don't know what it is.

My point in this post is that the doctrine of Christ is often added to and taken from. Tenants are often called doctrine when they aren't doctrine at all.
Everything in the scriptures is good and is for our benefit, but Christ simply declared his doctrine in one moment so that we could not be mistaken as to what his doctrine is. Anything more or less that we add to his doctrine is evil, this is Christs words not mine.

Interpretation is everything....some folks interpret the statements in Deuteronomy 4:2 & 12:32 and Revelation 22:18-19 to mean they don't need anything written after those points...

So when Jesus declares his doctrine in 5 short verses and says anybody who teaches any more or less than what he just declared is evil, he actually meant you can teach that his doctrine is more or less than what he said and it's okay?
There's nothing to interpret.

With Deuteronomy there's nothing to interpret also, you only need to look at the context. I'm very away that some things are symbolic some are literal, some have different interpretations. Some things aren't supposed to be interpreted. Thou shalt Not kill. Pretty simple.
My doctrine is a,b,c,d any one who says it's more than this is evil. Pretty simple.
He left no room for interpretation, he spoke in no parable

You are ignoring that He Himself expounded on His doctrine much more than 5 verses....in fact His doctrine is covered across multiple dispensations, myriad prophets, and today condensed into several thousand pages of scripture...not even getting into latter day revelations from the Spirit of God since the Restoration and all that has been written since...

Not that I'm in any sort of disagreement on the doctrine contained in those 5 verses which is the basic core doctrine...

[Jason]

So Stahura...are you saying you can be saved and obtain exaltation without the priesthood ordinances?