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Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 27th, 2015, 7:05 pm
by David13
The good old days, Captainfearnot, that's where we want to go back to, the good old days.
dc
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 12:06 pm
by h_p
Jezebel wrote:My bishop when I was a teenager taught me a way to measure modesty that has been more beneficial to me than any other method. He taught me that if you're dressed immodestly you'll be tugging on your clothes, tugging up on your neckline or down on the bottom of your shorts. That was the best advice that I could have ever gotten. It helped me learn how to measure modesty from the inside out.
I'm not sure this is really a good measure. I doubt Lady Gaga spends a lot of time tugging at her clothes, for example. But I don't really have a good answer. Cultural norms play a big part in what's considered appropriate, and those are always changing.
Our daughter never even argued against our dress standards while she was growing up, but they've noticeably deteriorated after she left for BYU, and now that she's married, it's obvious that she's either modifying her garments, or just not wearing them. But that's something that's between her and God. Our hands are clean--we taught her as best we could. At some point a person has to be responsible for their own decisions.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 3:32 pm
by Separatist
Lizzy60 wrote:Someone needs to resurrect the photo of the BYU ladies in the 50's and 60's with their bare shoulders in their formal attire.
- 1964-BYU-Homecoming-Queen.jpg (33.3 KiB) Viewed 1229 times
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 3:36 pm
by gkearney
Separatist wrote:Lizzy60 wrote:Someone needs to resurrect the photo of the BYU ladies in the 50's and 60's with their bare shoulders in their formal attire.
1964-BYU-Homecoming-Queen.jpg
Clearly someone at BYU needs to get out Photoshop.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 3:43 pm
by Separatist
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Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 3:49 pm
by EmmaLee
MormonPatriot wrote:She insists that all the girls at church dress this way until they go to the temple. How can this be? Where are the parents???
The girls in our ward who wear really short, and/or super tight, dresses/skirts, and/or revealing tops (and by revealing, I mean showing actual cleavage and/or are so sheer, well... nothing is left to the imagination) - these girls have endowed mothers (and by endowed, I mean, they've been through the temple) who dress the same way. They go shopping together and post pics of their adventures on Facebook. So, I'm not sure where the parents are of the girls in your ward, but in our ward, the parent's (mothers, at least; although the dad's seem 'pleased' :-\ ) teach their daughters to dress like they themselves do and are proud of the fact. And yes, their garments show from every angle, or not at all (meaning, they either aren't wearing them, or they have modified them). Oh, and these are the leaders of the ward (RS presidents, YW leaders, Primary, etc.).
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 4:00 pm
by Jeremy
1 Samuel 16:7 wrote:But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
Your daughter, like mine, was born completely naked. Was she dressed immodest? Hell no! She was completely decent and about as humble as a person can be.
Modesty is an attitude, not a dress code.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 4:01 pm
by Separatist
Noticing and contemplating garment usage in other people is weird. I guess religious underwear culture will do that to people.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 4:14 pm
by EmmaLee
Separatist wrote:Noticing and contemplating garment usage in other people is weird. I guess religious underwear culture will do that to people.
It is weird. Women do it all the time though - I've seen women tuck in another woman's garments that were showing - or literally press their hand against the chest (dress) of another woman who was bending over (because her entire bare chest was showing for all the world to see), etc. etc. Maybe it's more of a female thing than a male thing. I personally couldn't care less who wears garments or how.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 4:20 pm
by Separatist
But you did notice, and cared to point it out to us on the board.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 6:31 pm
by EmmaLee
I was answering one of the OP's questions from my personal experience. You've cared enough about the topic to post several times on this thread - it's weird to post several times on a thread when you're &!@$#%$@ about the topic of said thread. I also think ex-Mormons continually noticing and contemplating what Mormons do is weird. I guess hatred of others will do that to people. Get on with your life, Ajax.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 28th, 2015, 7:47 pm
by Rose Garden
h_p wrote:Jezebel wrote:My bishop when I was a teenager taught me a way to measure modesty that has been more beneficial to me than any other method. He taught me that if you're dressed immodestly you'll be tugging on your clothes, tugging up on your neckline or down on the bottom of your shorts. That was the best advice that I could have ever gotten. It helped me learn how to measure modesty from the inside out.
I'm not sure this is really a good measure. I doubt Lady Gaga spends a lot of time tugging at her clothes, for example. But I don't really have a good answer. Cultural norms play a big part in what's considered appropriate, and those are always changing.
Our daughter never even argued against our dress standards while she was growing up, but they've noticeably deteriorated after she left for BYU, and now that she's married, it's obvious that she's either modifying her garments, or just not wearing them. But that's something that's between her and God. Our hands are clean--we taught her as best we could. At some point a person has to be responsible for their own decisions.
I thought the very same thing when the bishop taught us that. Then one day when I was in college, I was channel surfing, looking for something interesting to watch on TV when I switched to a channel that had Brittany Spears surrounded by hoards of paparazzi, trying to get her kids in the car while the reporters crowded around her. I could care less about watching someone else do normal everyday things, but I saw something that stopped me dead in my tracks. Brittany was tugging! She had on little shorts and as she bent over to put her kids in her car, she reached back to tug on them.
I figure celebrities learn not to tug when they are on camera, but it seems to me, they tug when they are just being ordinary people. If Brittany tugs, I would expect pretty much everyone else to do it too.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 29th, 2015, 8:12 am
by MormonPatriot
captainfearnot wrote:MormonPatriot wrote:What I would not give to turn back the clock to when the youth respected the modesty standards of the church.
I'm curious. Say your wish has been granted. To what year would you turn back the clock?
When I was a teen in the late 70s early 80s I never witnesses the kind of trash clothing that I am witnessing today.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 29th, 2015, 8:14 am
by MormonPatriot
EmmaLee wrote:MormonPatriot wrote:She insists that all the girls at church dress this way until they go to the temple. How can this be? Where are the parents???
The girls in our ward who wear really short, and/or super tight, dresses/skirts, and/or revealing tops (and by revealing, I mean showing actual cleavage and/or are so sheer, well... nothing is left to the imagination) - these girls have endowed mothers (and by endowed, I mean, they've been through the temple) who dress the same way. They go shopping together and post pics of their adventures on Facebook. So, I'm not sure where the parents are of the girls in your ward, but in our ward, the parent's (mothers, at least; although the dad's seem 'pleased' :-\ ) teach their daughters to dress like they themselves do and are proud of the fact. And yes, their garments show from every angle, or not at all (meaning, they either aren't wearing them, or they have modified them). Oh, and these are the leaders of the ward (RS presidents, YW leaders, Primary, etc.).
My experiences here are similar. I fear for what is to come as we continue down this slippery slope
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 29th, 2015, 8:55 am
by Separatist
EmmaLee wrote:I was answering one of the OP's questions from my personal experience. You've cared enough about the topic to post several times on this thread - it's weird to post several times on a thread when you're whining about the topic of said thread. I also think ex-Mormons continually noticing and contemplating what Mormons do is weird. I guess hatred of others will do that to people. Get on with your life, Ajax.
No worries. I have the same problem of judging others based on the superficial myself. It's kinda part of the human condition really.
My pointing it out in others is also a fatal weakness. Apologies. However with an open mind, I've been blessed when others have pointed things out in me.
I'm Mormon. No hatred.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 29th, 2015, 10:42 am
by captainfearnot
MormonPatriot wrote:captainfearnot wrote:MormonPatriot wrote:What I would not give to turn back the clock to when the youth respected the modesty standards of the church.
I'm curious. Say your wish has been granted. To what year would you turn back the clock?
When I was a teen in the late 70s early 80s I never witnesses the kind of trash clothing that I am witnessing today.
That's funny, because 1979 was specifically mentioned upthread as a year when people were not so uptight about modesty as we are nowadays. Funny how we remember things differently.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 29th, 2015, 11:33 am
by Rose Garden
She's right though. Some of the clothes now days just scream sex. In fact it's the whole point. I think by clamping down on modestry, we are creating a worse problem.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 29th, 2015, 11:43 am
by Zathura
Although Modesty is important, here is what a general authority taught in Brazil.
There were many arguments about watching tv in Sunday and drinking Coke(many missions it's against the rules to drink Coke, members think it's against the word of wisdom)
He came and first told everyone to cease their bickering.
He then said "the ARGUMENTS that you have about Coke and TV causes more problems and heartache than Coke and TV will ever cause".
MormonPatriot wrote:I have a 19 year old daughter. She is beautiful. She is active in the church and she is a patriot (I raised her well).
She has been attending the local community college and going to institute and the single's ward.
For the past year, we have been in a battle with her over modesty. She says that her mother and I are being over protective.
We want her to wear garment ready clothing (she hasn't gone to the temple yet).
She insists that all the girls at church dress this way until they go to the temple. How can this be? Where are the parents???
It is not that she is wearing mini skirts and her breasts are falling out....don't get me wrong, but most of the skirts she wears would not cover garments. And definitely the shirts would not cover the shoulder area of the garments.
This is causing me so much heartache that it is hard to sleep.
This past summer she went to the water part with her friends and refused to were shorts over her swimsuit. I even told her they could be short shorts if she wanted.
What I would not give to turn back the clock to when the youth respected the modesty standards of the church.
I thought this was a wise statement, and that's my stance every time something like this comes up.
Yes modesty is important, but we have free agency. Attempting to get someone to do something against their will or Fighting about modesty causes a bigger problem than a short dress will ever cause.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: October 29th, 2015, 11:44 am
by samizdat
Separatist wrote:Noticing and contemplating garment usage in other people is weird. I guess religious underwear culture will do that to people.
Concur with the first part. Not so sure with the second part. But credit must be given where credit is due.
You raise your sons and daughters right, and if they try to justify their behavior citing how others dress differently than them, you remember them what YOU as a FATHER IN ZION have taught them.
Then if called to a position of leadership over a ward or a stake, then counsel the members of your ward or stake accordingly as it is your call to be a judge in Israel.
As for the rest of us, Don't Judge!
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: November 1st, 2015, 9:10 am
by Sirocco
How modest is a cape?
We don't have them anymore...
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: November 1st, 2015, 10:02 am
by Obrien
MormonPatriot wrote:I have a 19 year old daughter. She is beautiful. She is active in the church and she is a patriot (I raised her well).
She has been attending the local community college and going to institute and the single's ward.
For the past year, we have been in a battle with her over modesty. She says that her mother and I are being over protective.
We want her to wear garment ready clothing (she hasn't gone to the temple yet).
She insists that all the girls at church dress this way until they go to the temple. How can this be? Where are the parents???
It is not that she is wearing mini skirts and her breasts are falling out....don't get me wrong, but most of the skirts she wears would not cover garments. And definitely the shirts would not cover the shoulder area of the garments.
This is causing me so much heartache that it is hard to sleep.
This past summer she went to the water part with her friends and refused to were shorts over her swimsuit. I even told her they could be short shorts if she wanted.
What I would not give to turn back the clock to when the youth respected the modesty standards of the church.
MoPat - I understand your angst, as the father of 3 tall, blonde, smart daughters (all presently 20 - 30 years old). I agree with gkearney's comment - if this is your biggest problem, thank the Lord for His mercy on you. My daughters have by and large been very tasteful in their dress and obedient to Mormon standards in their lives. I don't feel it's wise to
battle a grown child on much - it simply serves to alienate them.
Are you concerned her dress choices will reflect poorly on you as her parent? Honestly consider that question...I know at one time I suffered from that kind of silliness.
My best advice - Trust that all your years of parenting have not fallen on deaf ears, express your opinion to her directly, then forget it. She'll likely come around.
Re: Something that has really been bothering me lately
Posted: November 1st, 2015, 11:19 am
by Obrien
Separatist wrote:God hating liberals are responsible for sleeveless shirts?
If you'd come to the monthly chapter meetings, you'd be up on these things...