Invasion of the Trollls

[rewcox]

29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

We have reached that point in society where intellectuals think they have it all figured out, and that they also hearken to the counsels of God.

They are not so learned.

You can Think yourself right out of the church. That seems to be a common theme these days.

That is an interesting observation. It causes me to wonder which is more harmful, thinking yourself out or not thinking and staying in. Granted there are other options such as thinking yourself in or not thinking and getting out... etc. But, in the first contrast, assuming "the church is true", which is more harmful. Not thinking but following or thinking and not following.

I'm not sure the answer changes regardless of "the church" being "true" or not.

FWIW - I am not intending to accuse anyone of being a thinker or non-thinker. If anything, I am encouraging us to celebrate agency and perhaps ponder its importance in this awesome journey. I happen to believe thinking and possibly making the wrong choice is of more value to the soul than not thinking but being on the "right" side.

Is there no option of thinking and staying in? (mostly a rhetorical question; I have my answer)

[Cookies]

There are others here who post, who do not have the TBM view of things, who have no belief in DS as a messenger (and may not have even heard of him).

P.S. I do NOT consider TBM an epithet. I consider it a compliment, coming from the story in history. ("Are you a Mormon?" asked the man brandishing a gun, who had been threatening to kill any Mormon he found. "Yessiree. True blue, through and through," was the reply, even though he was facing a death threat. How can there be an insult to be called something that originated in that story?)

I've seen plenty of people (in the HG forum, and in some of the FB groups) say that to them "TBM" means "true blind Mormon" - obviously meaning they view people who remain faithful in the LDS Church as "blind".

Maybe it's a coping strategy brought on by being told by "TBM's" that skepticism is the "easy way", or that they are "apostate scum" for not following the prophets every word, or that they are an "Evil poison" that doesn't belong in the group because they adhere to different interpretations of the same Books?

Both sides do it. (Cope this way) Back and forth, back and forth... I've done it myself a few times. Why? I'm not sure? Because it feels good, I guess? It's validating to point out when "the others" do bad stuff. That doesn't mean it's right, or that I like myself for doing it. I'm just not sure how to stop?

https://therearenoothers.wordpress.com/ ... -othering/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a) humans have an undeniable and insidious inclination to engage in “othering” thought patterns for the purpose of self-preservation, and

b) learning to avoid and counteract these thought patterns is integral to greatly reducing the world’s hatred and suffering.

"By “othering”, we mean any action by which an individual or group becomes mentally classified in somebody’s mind as “not one of us”. Rather than always remembering that every person is a complex bundle of emotions, ideas, motivations, reflexes, priorities, and many other subtle aspects, it’s sometimes easier to dismiss them as being in some way less human, and less worthy of respect and dignity, than we are."

You want to stick up for yourself and your beliefs. You want others to think that you are not a bad person. When somebody points out all the ways you fail at being a decent human being...you want to save face. But the truth is, we are all evil humans, and good humans, and skeptical at times, and faithful at times. We are complex and probably shouldn't be categorized as anything more narrow than that.

...or something like that. I don't know what I'm talking about. :-??

[Jeremy]

Granted there are other options such as thinking yourself in or not thinking and getting out... etc. But, in the first contrast, assuming "the church is true", which is more harmful. Not thinking but following or thinking and not following.

Is there no option of thinking and staying in? (mostly a rhetorical question; I have my answer)

I assumed I made it clear that there are other options. Was it not clear? (mostly a rhetorical question)

A boy can't win for losing. ;)

[EmmaLee]

...or something like that. I don't know what I'm talking about. :-??

I understand what you're saying, and I agree. It is silly and a waste of time to go back and forth. I'm as guilty as anyone and I mentally smack myself every time I do it, and wish I'd just let them throw their insults and have their attacks and that I had the discipline to ignore it all.

What I'm mostly bothered by though, is just what happens on this forum. If a bunch of us were at a restaurant talking and saying the same things that have been said in this thread, I wouldn't be nearly as bothered. And here's why - Brian touts and sells this forum as "LDS", and not just any old LDS, but mainline, mainstream, non-fringe LDS. It says so right in his own rules and forum description. But what he lets happen here is far from those things. He bans mainline, mainstream LDS people like BeeP, Mark, Shadow, Jason, Tony/Franco, etc.. on a fairly regular, frequent basis - and in almost 10 years of being on this forum, I've never once seen him ban a non-mainline, non-mainstream, fringey type person (with the possible exception of Jesus). Why is that? He also deletes threads of mainstream LDS people without a word as to why. I've never seen him do the same to non-mainstream LDS people. Why is that?

Here's my point - I honestly and truly do not care which theology/version of the gospel gets preached on this forum - I really don't. It can be anything Brian wants it to be and I'm 100% good with that. BUT, he should present it and sell it FOR WHAT IT TRULY IS and NOT for what it is NOT - and as it is right now, it is most assuredly NOT an LDS forum as he himself describes it in the rules and forum description. It is very deceptive, disingenuous, and flat-out wrong for him to pretend to anyone, let alone new people who don't know the history of this place, that LDSFF is a safe place for mainline, mainstream, non-fringe LDS people to talk and share their thoughts - because it is not - and THAT is what causes the vast majority of misunderstandings, contention, strife, and other crap we see here on a daily basis.

[EmmaLee]

Granted there are other options such as thinking yourself in or not thinking and getting out... etc. But, in the first contrast, assuming "the church is true", which is more harmful. Not thinking but following or thinking and not following.

Is there no option of thinking and staying in? (mostly a rhetorical question; I have my answer)

I assumed I made it clear that there are other options. Was it not clear? (mostly a rhetorical question)

A boy can't win for losing. ;)

Yes, I saw that you included "other options", but then by saying "such as" immediately after, and then not listing "thinking and staying in" as one of them (but listing pretty much every other option, that I can think of anyway) - I wondered if that specific option was not an option in your opinion. So it was partially clear (mostly a rhetorical answer).

And we're all winners, Jeremy; or losers, whichever. :ymparty:

[SmallFarm]

...or something like that. I don't know what I'm talking about. :-??

I understand what you're saying, and I agree. It is silly and a waste of time to go back and forth. I'm as guilty as anyone and I mentally smack myself every time I do it, and wish I'd just let them throw their insults and have their attacks and that I had the discipline to ignore it all.

What I'm mostly bothered by though, is just what happens on this forum. If a bunch of us were at a restaurant talking and saying the same things that have been said in this thread, I wouldn't be nearly as bothered. And here's why - Brian touts and sells this forum as "LDS", and not just any old LDS, but mainline, mainstream, non-fringe LDS. It says so right in his own rules and forum description. But what he lets happen here is far from those things. He bans mainline, mainstream LDS people like BeeP, Mark, Shadow, Jason, Tony/Franco, etc.. on a fairly regular, frequent basis - and in almost 10 years of being on this forum, I've never once seen him ban a non-mainline, non-mainstream, fringey type person (with the possible exception of Jesus). Why is that? He also deletes threads of mainstream LDS people without a word as to why. I've never seen him do the same to non-mainstream LDS people. Why is that?

Here's my point - I honestly and truly do not care which theology/version of the gospel gets preached on this forum - I really don't. It can be anything Brian wants it to be and I'm 100% good with that. BUT, he should present it and sell it FOR WHAT IT TRULY IS and NOT for what it is NOT - and as it is right now, it is most assuredly NOT an LDS forum as he himself describes it in the rules and forum description. It is very deceptive, disingenuous, and flat-out wrong for him to pretend to anyone, let alone new people who don't know the history of this place, that LDSFF is a safe place for mainline, mainstream, non-fringe LDS people to talk and share their thoughts - because it is not - and THAT is what causes the vast majority of misunderstandings, contention, strife, and other crap we see here on a daily basis.

Because those people never broke forum rules? :-\
Let it be known that we have all sinned at the law (the forum rules) and deserve to be banned.

[deep water]

Good observation! Definitely not the same forum it was3 or 4 years back. Used to be you got booted for evil speaking of the Lord's anointed...now it's a frequent commonplace occurrence...not even delving into the rest of the typical banter these days. Sad but just another sign of the times...

I just hope that those that are loyal to the Lord's anointed will continue to call people out for it, and not remain silent, and not allow themselves to be beat down by those in the other camp. Yes, we must find some way to be more respectful. I know I do in particular. But we cannot remain silent on this.

The Lord's anointed always called out the wicked in scripture. The ones that were loyal to what most thought were the "Lord's anointed in cepheus's day" took the Savior's life. The events at the death of the Savior did not even change their minds, for they hunted down his true followers and put them to death. Most of the anointed by the Lord, lost their life at the hand of pretenders for doing so. It has always been so, yet some think it might be different today.----Pretenders=Wolf's in sheep's clothing.
This should answer your question EL.
Maybe what Brian should do is to create a strictly &!@$# and don't want to bring evidence to support their gospel understanding safe place. That way we can explore all things true and all things false. That way all that are seeking truth will find it. Joseph Smith said that if you don't gain enough knowledge here in this life, you will be taken captive by some unseen being in the next. Why are so many so afraid to search out truth today? If you are standing upon a rock, nothing can move or hinder you. That includes snakes, poison, sickness, blindness, and deafness, and wolves in sheep's clothing and devils.

[Jason]

Good observation! Definitely not the same forum it was3 or 4 years back. Used to be you got booted for evil speaking of the Lord's anointed...now it's a frequent commonplace occurrence...not even delving into the rest of the typical banter these days. Sad but just another sign of the times...

I just hope that those that are loyal to the Lord's anointed will continue to call people out for it, and not remain silent, and not allow themselves to be beat down by those in the other camp. Yes, we must find some way to be more respectful. I know I do in particular. But we cannot remain silent on this.

The Lord's anointed always called out the wicked in scripture. The ones that were loyal to what most thought were the "Lord's anointed in cepheus's day" took the Savior's life. The events at the death of the Savior did not even change their minds, for they hunted down his true followers and put them to death. Most of the anointed by the Lord, lost their life at the hand of pretenders for doing so. It has always been so, yet some think it might be different today.----Pretenders=Wolf's in sheep's clothing.
This should answer your question EL.

Ya know you keep bringing this up...have you researched the history? Were they truly authorized with lineage? Or is it like saying the pope today is authorized when we know for a fact there was a break in priesthood authority...and we had some folks just assume roles but never were actually authorized or ordained by someone in authority?

I know in my studies I have yet to find where there is a clear chain of authority. Also another irony is that while Christ pointed out the follies of the organizations (Pharisees & Sadducees) at that time...He established an organization with clear authority and chain of command. When that organization lost its leadership and authority....another similar organization was restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

While you claim this organization has lost its way....the reality is there has been a clear passing of the keys from prophet to prophet down to Thomas S. Monson. There is no disruption and loss of leadership without passing of the keys as has been witnessed in all of the prior religious history (Bible and Book of Mormon).

Even the Prophet Joseph Smith laid out the key that will NEVER rust...not to mention the testimony of all the prophets since....and so many prior that this is the final dispensation and the establishment of the Lord's kingdom here on the earth to roll forth without hands. From the prophecy of Zenos as related by Jacob in Chapter 5 to Daniel's vision of the stone cut out of the mountain without hands and not to mention the record's of Christ's discourses to the Nephites regarding the future and so forth....

Not even touching upon the basic fulfillment of ALL scripture (religious history) in the fullness of times demonstrated in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints....from the basic ordinances of baptism and receiving the holy ghost to the tokens, signs, and covenants needed to pass through the veil. The spirit of Elijah is strong...last month our temple set a 10 year record in temple attendance. We are fulfilling history and prophecy.

To believe as you do...you basically have to toss all religious history aside...toss aside everything to do with the restoration and all the prophets since. Fascinating to me how you can possibly reconcile and rationalize such thoughts while stating that you believe others that contradict your basis premise.

You can stand by and kick the bricks....or you can repent and become a part of it...Brother...the choice is yours. Know this though...it will be better that a millstone were hung around your neck and you were tossed into the depths....than to have known truth and turned against it. There is no neutral ground and all of us will decide which side we are absolutely positively on before this is over.

The Keys That Never Rust
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... t?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brothers and sisters, pray for the critics of the Church; love your enemies. Keep the faith and stay on the straight and narrow path. Use wisdom and judgment in what you say and do, so that we do not give cause to others to hold the Church or its people in disrepute. Do not be surprised or dismayed if trials and challenges come upon us. This work, which Satan seeks in vain to tear down, is that which God has placed on earth to lift mankind up!

I have lived for more than half the 150 years the restored Church has been upon the earth in this last dispensation. I have witnessed its marvelous growth until it now is established in the four corners of the earth. As the Prophet Joseph said:

“Our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, Australia, the East Indies, and other places, the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done” (History of the Church, 4:540).

Let us, then, press on confidently in the work of the Lord as we look forward to the glorious years of promise ahead. Through our faithfulness, all that God has promised will be fulfilled. This is the work of the Lord. The gospel is true. Jesus is the Christ and our Redeemer. May the Lord bless us all as we begin this great sesquicentennial conference of his church, I humbly pray, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1980/05/no-u ... k?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[EmmaLee]

He bans mainline, mainstream LDS people like BeeP, Mark, Shadow, Jason, Tony/Franco, etc.. on a fairly regular, frequent basis - and in almost 10 years of being on this forum, I've never once seen him ban a non-mainline, non-mainstream, fringey type person (with the possible exception of Jesus). Why is that? He also deletes threads of mainstream LDS people without a word as to why. I've never seen him do the same to non-mainstream LDS people. Why is that?

Because those people never broke forum rules? :-\
Did I say that? Or even hint at it?

Let it be known that we have all sinned at the law (the forum rules) and deserve to be banned.
Let it be known that while we all may break the rules now and then, only a select few have ever gotten banned, and all of them fall into one, small category.

[Robert Sinclair]

This is one key that will never rust:

"Be equal in your temporal things, and this not grudgingly."♡

[deep water]

Good observation! Definitely not the same forum it was3 or 4 years back. Used to be you got booted for evil speaking of the Lord's anointed...now it's a frequent commonplace occurrence...not even delving into the rest of the typical banter these days. Sad but just another sign of the times...

I just hope that those that are loyal to the Lord's anointed will continue to call people out for it, and not remain silent, and not allow themselves to be beat down by those in the other camp. Yes, we must find some way to be more respectful. I know I do in particular. But we cannot remain silent on this.

The Lord's anointed always called out the wicked in scripture. The ones that were loyal to what most thought were the "Lord's anointed in cepheus's day" took the Savior's life. The events at the death of the Savior did not even change their minds, for they hunted down his true followers and put them to death. Most of the anointed by the Lord, lost their life at the hand of pretenders for doing so. It has always been so, yet some think it might be different today.----Pretenders=Wolf's in sheep's clothing.
This should answer your question EL.

Ya know you keep bringing this up...have you researched the history? Were they truly authorized with lineage? Or is it like saying the pope today is authorized when we know for a fact there was a break in priesthood authority...and we had some folks just assume roles but never were actually authorized or ordained by someone in authority?

I know in my studies I have yet to find where there is a clear chain of authority. Also another irony is that while Christ pointed out the follies of the organizations (Pharisees & Sadducees) at that time...He established an organization with clear authority and chain of command. When that organization lost its leadership and authority....another similar organization was restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

While you claim this organization has lost its way....the reality is there has been a clear passing of the keys from prophet to prophet down to Thomas S. Monson. There is no disruption and loss of leadership without passing of the keys as has been witnessed in all of the prior religious history (Bible and Book of Mormon).

Even the Prophet Joseph Smith laid out the key that will NEVER rust...not to mention the testimony of all the prophets since....and so many prior that this is the final dispensation and the establishment of the Lord's kingdom here on the earth to roll forth without hands. From the prophecy of Zenos as related by Jacob in Chapter 5 to Daniel's vision of the stone cut out of the mountain without hands and not to mention the record's of Christ's discourses to the Nephites regarding the future and so forth....

Not even touching upon the basic fulfillment of ALL scripture (religious history) in the fullness of times demonstrated in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints....from the basic ordinances of baptism and receiving the holy ghost to the tokens, signs, and covenants needed to pass through the veil. The spirit of Elijah is strong...last month our temple set a 10 year record in temple attendance. We are fulfilling history and prophecy.

To believe as you do...you basically have to toss all religious history aside...toss aside everything to do with the restoration and all the prophets since. Fascinating to me how you can possibly reconcile and rationalize such thoughts while stating that you believe others that contradict your basis premise.

You can stand by and kick the bricks....or you can repent and become a part of it...Brother...the choice is yours. Know this though...it will be better that a millstone were hung around your neck and you were tossed into the depths....than to have known truth and turned against it. There is no neutral ground and all of us will decide which side we are absolutely positively on before this is over.

The Keys That Never Rust
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... t?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brothers and sisters, pray for the critics of the Church; love your enemies. Keep the faith and stay on the straight and narrow path. Use wisdom and judgment in what you say and do, so that we do not give cause to others to hold the Church or its people in disrepute. Do not be surprised or dismayed if trials and challenges come upon us. This work, which Satan seeks in vain to tear down, is that which God has placed on earth to lift mankind up!

I have lived for more than half the 150 years the restored Church has been upon the earth in this last dispensation. I have witnessed its marvelous growth until it now is established in the four corners of the earth. As the Prophet Joseph said:

“Our missionaries are going forth to different nations, and in Germany, Palestine, New Holland, Australia, the East Indies, and other places, the Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done” (History of the Church, 4:540).

Let us, then, press on confidently in the work of the Lord as we look forward to the glorious years of promise ahead. Through our faithfulness, all that God has promised will be fulfilled. This is the work of the Lord. The gospel is true. Jesus is the Christ and our Redeemer. May the Lord bless us all as we begin this great sesquicentennial conference of his church, I humbly pray, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1980/05/no-u ... k?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jason, history is written by the winners, with the exception of the Gospel. Most of the Gospel was written by the losers here on earth. To answer your question, no I have never thought to research Caiaphas or the high priests lineage. Are you suggesting they were gentle and not descendants of the tribe of Israel? A question for you, How and when did BY and all sense, receive the mantle of Prophet, seer and revelator if the Savior said that he alone stands at the gate and employes no servant there?

[David13]

Faithful to the whordom of Ephraim, in perverting all equity, is spiritual blindness, but don't worry, it wont last forever.♡

Robert I hate to try to point out reality to you, I know it's useless. But the church will outlast you by a long time, nothing personal, mind you.
dc

[SmallFarm]

He bans mainline, mainstream LDS people like BeeP, Mark, Shadow, Jason, Tony/Franco, etc.. on a fairly regular, frequent basis - and in almost 10 years of being on this forum, I've never once seen him ban a non-mainline, non-mainstream, fringey type person (with the possible exception of Jesus). Why is that? He also deletes threads of mainstream LDS people without a word as to why. I've never seen him do the same to non-mainstream LDS people. Why is that?

Because those people never broke forum rules? :-\
Did I say that? Or even hint at it?

Let it be known that we have all sinned at the law (the forum rules) and deserve to be banned.
Let it be known that while we all may break the rules now and then, only a select few have ever gotten banned, and all of them fall into one, small category.

Sounds like an opinion. Have you moderated?

[EdGoble]

The Lord's anointed always called out the wicked in scripture. The ones that were loyal to what most thought were the "Lord's anointed in cepheus's day" took the Savior's life. The events at the death of the Savior did not even change their minds, for they hunted down his true followers and put them to death. Most of the anointed by the Lord, lost their life at the hand of pretenders for doing so. It has always been so, yet some think it might be different today.----Pretenders=Wolf's in sheep's clothing.
This should answer your question EL.
Maybe what Brian should do is to create a strictly biscuit and don't want to bring evidence to support their gospel understanding safe place. That way we can explore all things true and all things false. That way all that are seeking truth will find it. Joseph Smith said that if you don't gain enough knowledge here in this life, you will be taken captive by some unseen being in the next. Why are so many so afraid to search out truth today? If you are standing upon a rock, nothing can move or hinder you. That includes snakes, poison, sickness, blindness, and deafness, and wolves in sheep's clothing and devils.

See, here is the problem. You have those that have a ideology that our dispensation is the same as many others, which ended with apostasy, etc., or where people were going up against an already established hierarchy that had descended into disfavor with the Lord. We have been repeatedly told that that is not the case with ours. No, I'm not going to give a scripture in support of that. People will just reject what I say anyway, as well as my use of scriptures, so I don't get into scripture bashes much anymore. I submit to you that there is nothing wrong with searching out the truth. I submit to you that nobody is afraid of that, and that all of us are intelligent enough to search out truth. And a search for truth is not feared by us, or by you. We know as much as you do that certain reforms are needed. We just choose to be loyal. We are not blind.

Why do you believe that searching out the truth means that you can openly find fault with the establishment, when if you have been to the temple, you have explicitly covenanted not to do so? Furthermore, everyone knows that the brethren are not evil men, breaking the law of chastity left and right, etc., and those that have been found out have been historically booted from the church and the hierarchy. There is zero tolerance for those that are found out. When you call them wicked, what you are really doing is saying that you disagree with their positions. That doesn't make them wicked. Sorry. It just doesn't. And doing what YOU don't like and taking postitions YOU disagree with doesn't make them wolf in sheeps clothing either. At most, it means that we are in need of REFORMS, and they fix them when they know they need to be fixed. If they are oblivious to them, you have to be patient enough for them to reform them on their own time. A remarkable amount of reform is happening as we speak, with a great amount of clarification on a great many fronts, including blacks and the priesthood, the standing of women in the priesthood, and so forth, things that were not clearly understood, but now, the brethren have seen the necessity for clarifications and reforms on these points. We have just witnessed such things in action. Hardly wolves in sheeps clothing. Hardly seers lacking in vision.

Here is the issue that I have with everybody that disagrees with the brethren: Its not that you can't disagree. Its the way that you disagree. And furthermore, we see repeatedly how the establishment of the Church is self-corrective over time, just like how science is self-corrective over time. When a doctrine that is preached from the pulpit is false, eventually it is overthrown. When a practice is improper, eventually it is weeded out, and the proper thing is put in place. If you don't like the way it is, then you can believe that things are in need of reform. AND, you can even do things in a manner where you are not speaking evil. But you don't need to throw around terms like wolves in sheeps clothing and so forth. That is entirely unnecessary, because the reforms come eventually, when the Holy Ghost speaks, on the LORD'S timetable, not on the timetable of the individuals that cast aspersions against and lift up the heel against the Lord's anointed. Your evil speaking is entirely unnecessary. And if you come to conclusions that things need reform, you ought to be patient for reform, if reform is truly needed. Having an opinion that something is in need of reform, and making that observation does not have to constitute evil speaking. But you are CHOOSING to MAKE it into that UNNECESSARILY. Why would you do that? Why not choose to do it in a way that is not a covenant-braking manner? What rational reason do you and others that share your ideology have in having the attitude you do. I submit to you that it is not rational to engage in evil speaking. I submit to you that you can still have the beliefs you do, and still maintain the Holy Ghost by NOT evil speaking. I submit that the Lord doesn't care so much what your personal beliefs are on what reforms ought to take place, but rather, the manner that you make those opinions known, and the attitudes that you have towards the people in power and in authority that you disagree with.

[EmmaLee]

This should answer your question EL.
Sorry, not sure what question you're referring to, specifically.

Maybe what Brian should do is to create a strictly biscuit and don't want to bring evidence to support their gospel understanding safe place. That way we can explore all things true and all things false. That way all that are seeking truth will find it. Joseph Smith said that if you don't gain enough knowledge here in this life, you will be taken captive by some unseen being in the next. Why are so many so afraid to search out truth today? If you are standing upon a rock, nothing can move or hinder you. That includes snakes, poison, sickness, blindness, and deafness, and wolves in sheep's clothing and devils.
Not speaking for anyone else, but I'm not afraid of truth. I seek it daily (hourly, some days) - I read till my eyes are red and I have a headache. I pray till I literally can't think of anything else to say (I'm glad God is understanding). I read such a wide variety of topics and authors, you would probably be quite surprised if you looked through my bookcases. Some truths, once verified through prayer, have caused me to change some of my perceptions and beliefs. Other alleged truths are still pending, and may be "on the shelf" for a long time. Some truths have caused me to scratch my head; some have caused me to shout for joy. But no real, actual truth, from any source, has persuaded me to leave and revile the Church.

But anyway, like I said, I personally don't care what is discussed on LDSFF; discuss any version(s) of the gospel that you all want. My only concern is that the forum is accurately described by its owner, which it currently is not - and that is dishonest.

[SmallFarm]

In my experience, it is those who resort to personal attacks that tend to be kicked out.

[Jason]

Jason, history is written by the winners, with the exception of the Gospel. Most of the Gospel was written by the losers here on earth. To answer your question, no I have never thought to research Caiaphas or the high priests lineage. Are you suggesting they were gentle and not descendants of the tribe of Israel? A question for you, How and when did BY and all sense, receive the mantle of Prophet, seer and revelator if the Savior said that he alone stands at the gate and employes no servant there?

You should research that since you are using that to validate your standpoint....at least I would...especially something so serious as eternal salvation. To each their own though...

What does being a Prophet, Seer and Revelator have to do with being at the gate?

And he said unto me: Thou rememberest the twelve apostles of the Lamb? Behold they are they who shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, the twelve ministers of thy seed shall be judged of them; for ye are of the house of Israel.

And these twelve ministers whom thou beholdest shall judge thy seed. And, behold, they are righteous forever; for because of their faith in the Lamb of God their garments are made white in his blood.

And the angel said unto me: Look! And I looked, and beheld three generations pass away in righteousness; and their garments were white even like unto the Lamb of God. And the angel said unto me: These are made white in the blood of the Lamb, because of their faith in him.

And I, Nephi, also saw many of the fourth generation who passed away in righteousness.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-n ... lang=eng#8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment-seat of the Holy One of Israel; and then cometh the judgment, and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-n ... ang=eng#14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SmallFarm]

Another rule I see violated (in this thread even) by those who claim to be unfairly victimized:

If you disagree with the actions of a Moderator or the Forum Administrator you may address your concerns privately by contacting the Forum Administrator - making such concerns public may result in warning or banishment.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[EmmaLee]

He bans mainline, mainstream LDS people like BeeP, Mark, Shadow, Jason, Tony/Franco, etc.. on a fairly regular, frequent basis - and in almost 10 years of being on this forum, I've never once seen him ban a non-mainline, non-mainstream, fringey type person (with the possible exception of Jesus). Why is that? He also deletes threads of mainstream LDS people without a word as to why. I've never seen him do the same to non-mainstream LDS people. Why is that?

Because those people never broke forum rules? :-\
Did I say that? Or even hint at it?

Let it be known that we have all sinned at the law (the forum rules) and deserve to be banned.
Let it be known that while we all may break the rules now and then, only a select few have ever gotten banned, and all of them fall into one, small category.

Sounds like an opinion.
An opinion? Do you mean it's my opinion who has gotten banned? No, that's not my opinion. Yes, all of these people (listed above in blue) have been banned at one point or another - and yes, they all fall into the mainstream, non-fringe LDS 'mold', if you will - and no, I'm not aware of any non-mainstream or former LDS people being banned, ever (except, as I said, that Jesus guy).

Have you moderated?
Brian did ask me to be a moderator a few months ago. I thanked him, but said no. Perhaps I should have said yes.

[SmallFarm]

It's an opinion because it implies intent which is not validated with evidence.

[Robert Sinclair]

Faithful to the whordom of Ephraim, in perverting all equity, is spiritual blindness, but don't worry, it wont last forever.♡

Robert I hate to try to point out reality to you, I know it's useless. But the church will outlast you by a long time, nothing personal, mind you.
dc

The family of Ephraim, will be around till the end of the world, joined back together with family of Judah, of this
I know, and I will be there to help you still, if it be the will of God, as a fellow servant who cares and has love for all of you, to the best of my ability.♡

[Jason]

To Brian's credit there has been some clean up work on here. And its a very very challenging place to moderate having been a moderator at one point myself.

[EmmaLee]

In my experience, it is those who resort to personal attacks that tend to be kicked out.

Now that IS an opinion and reflects your bias. Who gets to define what a "personal attack" is? Right now, it's only Brian (he's the only one that has ever been able to ban, but he is also the only moderator presently, as well), and his bias is evident. Everybody accuses everybody else of personally attacking them, but ONLY one side of the fence gets kicked out. This is a verifiable fact - no opinions needed.

[SmallFarm]

In my experience, it is those who resort to personal attacks that tend to be kicked out.

Now that IS an opinion and reflects your bias. Who gets to define what a "personal attack" is? Right now, it's only Brian (he's the only one that has ever been able to ban, but he is also the only moderator presently, as well), and his bias is evident. Everybody accuses everybody else of personally attacking them, but ONLY one side of the fence gets kicked out. This is a verifiable fact - no opinions needed.

Well I've moderated so I think my opinion should carry some weight....

[Jason]

In my experience, it is those who resort to personal attacks that tend to be kicked out.

Now that IS an opinion and reflects your bias. Who gets to define what a "personal attack" is? Right now, it's only Brian (he's the only one that has ever been able to ban, but he is also the only moderator presently, as well), and his bias is evident. Everybody accuses everybody else of personally attacking them, but ONLY one side of the fence gets kicked out. This is a verifiable fact - no opinions needed.

To be fair Brian has kicked some of the other side out as well....I could start listing starting with Aussey....not to mention a contingent of the snufferites...