LDS Freedom Forum

You talk about health of the forum, then you talk about the saints breaking like glass.

I think it is common knowledge that something impacting the church will be given by the prophet. Something coming from an individual, or forum isn't going to do it.

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:Hi jwharton.

I encourage everyone to read the Book of Mormon. At a high level, it is about 2 different civilizations that perished because they followed the wrong beliefs.

There are individuals and groups who proposed beliefs, yet those beliefs led to destruction. I like Amulek, yet his people were destroyed in one day.

There are a few here who support the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and its leaders. Others think the church and leaders are in apostasy, others have left the church and preach their version of truth.

EmmaLee left because of these fringe beliefs. So you tell me about the health of the forum.

As far as the temporal health, it would be interesting to know how much Brian makes on the advertisements. I suspect I drive a fair amount of business his way.

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:Trolls will be trolls.

You can also think yourself into justifying the shedding of innocent blood while thinking you are "righteous".
By the definition many people are using here, Abinadi would be burned at the stake all over again.
I experience being accused of being a troll at times for my non-conventional perspective.
Throwing out this accusation too loosely is very unhelpful to the health of a forum.
People want a place where they can freely share their sincere beliefs.
If this can be maintained then the forum will stay healthy.

Will the day ever come when the saints won't shatter like glass at the first sound of the Father's Doctrine?

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:Trolls will be trolls.

You can also think yourself into justifying the shedding of innocent blood while thinking you are "righteous".
By the definition many people are using here, Abinadi would be burned at the stake all over again.
I experience being accused of being a troll at times for my non-conventional perspective.
Throwing out this accusation too loosely is very unhelpful to the health of a forum.
People want a place where they can freely share their sincere beliefs.
If this can be maintained then the forum will stay healthy.

That's pretty bold...but hey if you can were those shoes....more power to you...

Jason wrote:Our sustaining is an oath-like indication that we recognize their calling as a prophet to be legitimate and binding upon us.

Very well defined, just what we must discern by the spirit. Nailed it!

rewcox wrote:I think it is common knowledge that something impacting the church will be given by the prophet.
Something coming from an individual, or forum isn't going to do it.

I disagree, unless it is the Father's will that we are supposed to just become automaton minions.

See how far you get telling this to Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite.
Alma, a leading high priest, chose to risk his own life to record Abinadi's prophesies.
Nephi, the prophet at the time of Samuel the Lamanite, wasn't among those shooting arrows.

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:I think it is common knowledge that something impacting the church will be given by the prophet.
Something coming from an individual, or forum isn't going to do it.

I disagree, unless it is the Father's will that we are supposed to just become automaton minions.

See how far you get telling this to Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite.

If you lived in Nauvoo, when Brigham went west. would you have gone west?

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:I think it is common knowledge that something impacting the church will be given by the prophet.
Something coming from an individual, or forum isn't going to do it.

I disagree, unless it is the Father's will that we are supposed to just become automaton minions.

See how far you get telling this to Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite.

Those are the exceptions and not the norm. The reason for the exceptions was Abinadi was speaking to a fallen group who had lost the priesthood. Samuel the Lamanite preached repentance and advised them to seek out the prophet who obviously wasn't available there (supported/sustained the then living prophet of the church at that time).

Are you saying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has a fallen priesthood leadership??? Or are you advising folks to seek out the prophet?

Jason wrote:

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:I think it is common knowledge that something impacting the church will be given by the prophet.
Something coming from an individual, or forum isn't going to do it.

I disagree, unless it is the Father's will that we are supposed to just become automaton minions.

See how far you get telling this to Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite.

Those are the exceptions and not the norm. The reason for the exceptions was Abinadi was speaking to a fallen group who had lost the priesthood. Samuel the Lamanite preached repentance and advised them to seek out the prophet who obviously wasn't available there (supported/sustained the then living prophet of the church at that time).

Are you saying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has a fallen priesthood leadership??? Or are you advising folks to seek out the prophet?

I am saying we as a people, the entire church from top to bottom, are in a fallback state where we are not implementing the Father's Celestial Laws. Because of this we have been and still are under condemnation and we do not qualify for His divine protection so long as this condemnation remains. Therefore, none of the promises extended to us are binding upon the Father while we remain under the buffeting of the adversary. This means the adversary will get his way with us the longer we put off repenting of doing the things we have covenanted with the Father to do. This has had extremely grave consequences already that very few actually seem to be aware of. Which lack of awareness has many people unknowingly walking in darkness at noon-day. And, this is exactly the conditions within which Perdition is possible for those thus deceived. All who have entered into the temple and made covenants and received the high priesthood who actually oppose those covenants instead of keeping them are overcome by the adversary. God makes it abundantly clear that He shall not be mocked (without grave and dire consequences).

I am not saying it is the leader's fault either. This is all of our collective responsibility to rectify this matter. The church cannot lawfully be redeemed in a top-down authoritarian manner because all things in the church are to be accomplished by way of common consent. If the people predominantly want lies and error in place of truth, this is what they will get. Brigham Young clearly warned the saints along these lines. I see many of our leaders as being in great risk of being destroyed because of the collective will of the people to continue, and boldly so, to shelf the Father's Celestial Covenant in favor of several alternative programs and policies that are consolidating power instead of distributing it. These are indeed perilous and trying times and I am hoping to be a voice calling out for people to remember the covenants of our fathers to keep our eye on the Celestial Laws and Principles because Zion can be established on no other basis.

But, I'm just a nobody and so all that I say along these lines just seems to agitate people into wanting me to be punished as an apostate, which is precisely what calling for the shedding of innocent (spiritual) blood is all about. If I had a $20 bill for every time someone has directly or indirectly accused me of being an apostate here I would be a wealthy person. Little do those doing so know that they are calling for me to have the Gift of the Holy Ghost taken away, which is the sin against the Holy Ghost that is an unpardonable one.

If I accomplish nothing else on this forum, at the least I hope to get people to be a bit more sober minded when they make such extreme accusations. I'm not saying they aren't to be made because there are many apostate tares among us, but such must be done only upon the basis of clear evidence and there must actually be a sin grievous enough to merit a death worse than physical death being inflicted upon someone.

There is a massive Luciferian trend that is sweeping over all institutions in our world. Political, educational, religious, etc. And, unfortunately, our church is simply following this trend at somewhat of a lagging pace, but at a pace progressing towards it all the same. Those who are driving the progress to keep with this trend will stand before the Father and be held accountable for their actions to oppose His Plan with these counterfeit measures.

rewcox wrote:

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:I think it is common knowledge that something impacting the church will be given by the prophet.
Something coming from an individual, or forum isn't going to do it.

I disagree, unless it is the Father's will that we are supposed to just become automaton minions.

See how far you get telling this to Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite.

If you lived in Nauvoo, when Brigham went west. would you have gone west?

If I knew then what I know now, I would have.

Actually, I'm pretty wary and need to take a break for a while.
I may pop in once in a while to catch-up on a few threads.
All are free to send me private emails as those will be the only thing I will make sure to keep an eye on.
Perhaps many here will celebrate my laying low as I do seem to annoy a lot of people.
But, in any case, I wish everyone all the very best in their pursuit of love and truth.

jwharton wrote:

rewcox wrote:I think it is common knowledge that something impacting the church will be given by the prophet.
Something coming from an individual, or forum isn't going to do it.

I disagree, unless it is the Father's will that we are supposed to just become automaton minions.

See how far you get telling this to Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite.

jwharton wrote:

Jason wrote:Those are the exceptions and not the norm. The reason for the exceptions was Abinadi was speaking to a fallen group who had lost the priesthood. Samuel the Lamanite preached repentance and advised them to seek out the prophet who obviously wasn't available there (supported/sustained the then living prophet of the church at that time).

Are you saying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has a fallen priesthood leadership??? Or are you advising folks to seek out the prophet?

I am saying we as a people, the entire church from top to bottom, are in a fallback state where we are not implementing the Father's Celestial Laws. Because of this we have been and still are under condemnation and we do not qualify for His divine protection so long as this condemnation remains. Therefore, none of the promises extended to us are binding upon the Father while we remain under the buffeting of the adversary. This means the adversary will get his way with us the longer we put off repenting of doing the things we have covenanted with the Father to do. This has had extremely grave consequences already that very few actually seem to be aware of. Which lack of awareness has many people unknowingly walking in darkness at noon-day. And, this is exactly the conditions within which Perdition is possible for those thus deceived. All who have entered into the temple and made covenants and received the high priesthood who actually oppose those covenants instead of keeping them are overcome by the adversary. God makes it abundantly clear that He shall not be mocked (without grave and dire consequences).

I am not saying it is the leader's fault either. This is all of our collective responsibility to rectify this matter. The church cannot lawfully be redeemed in a top-down authoritarian manner because all things in the church are to be accomplished by way of common consent. If the people predominantly want lies and error in place of truth, this is what they will get. Brigham Young clearly warned the saints along these lines. I see many of our leaders as being in great risk of being destroyed because of the collective will of the people to continue, and boldly so, to shelf the Father's Celestial Covenant in favor of several alternative programs and policies that are consolidating power instead of distributing it. These are indeed perilous and trying times and I am hoping to be a voice calling out for people to remember the covenants of our fathers to keep our eye on the Celestial Laws and Principles because Zion can be established on no other basis.

But, I'm just a nobody and so all that I say along these lines just seems to agitate people into wanting me to be punished as an apostate, which is precisely what calling for the shedding of innocent (spiritual) blood is all about. If I had a $20 bill for every time someone has directly or indirectly accused me of being an apostate here I would be a wealthy person. Little do those doing so know that they are calling for me to have the Gift of the Holy Ghost taken away, which is the sin against the Holy Ghost that is an unpardonable one.

If I accomplish nothing else on this forum, at the least I hope to get people to be a bit more sober minded when they make such extreme accusations. I'm not saying they aren't to be made because there are many apostate tares among us, but such must be done only upon the basis of clear evidence and there must actually be a sin grievous enough to merit a death worse than physical death being inflicted upon someone.

There is a massive Luciferian trend that is sweeping over all institutions in our world. Political, educational, religious, etc. And, unfortunately, our church is simply following this trend at somewhat of a lagging pace, but at a pace progressing towards it all the same. Those who are driving the progress to keep with this trend will stand before the Father and be held accountable for their actions to oppose His Plan with these counterfeit measures.

Thank you for your thoughts. Reading through I see your intent and I am in agreement with you on it for the most part. Very delicate line though...and President Kimball's thoughts come to mind...not that they are applicable to you but just a sense of caution.

One’s intentions may be of the purest kind. The sincerity may be total and complete. Nevertheless, pure intentions and heartfelt sincerity do not give members of the Church authority to declare doctrine which is not sustained by the living prophets. While we are members of the Church, we are not authorized to publicly declare our speculations as doctrine nor to extend doctrinal positions to other conclusions based upon the reasoning of men and women, even by the brightest and most well-read among us.

The prophets are not only called to receive the doctrine and direct the ordinances through the keys they hold. They are also responsible to keep the saving doctrine pure so that people can hear and feel that doctrine in its sure and certain form.

Occasionally we have those who become a law unto themselves in these matters. Sadly, their pride leads them down a road which President Spencer W. Kimball warned us about: “Apostasy usually begins with question and doubt and criticism. …

“They who garnish the sepulchres of the dead prophets begin now by stoning the living ones. They return to the pronouncements of the dead leaders and interpret them to be incompatible with present programs. They convince themselves that there are discrepancies between the practices of the deceased and the leaders of the present. … They allege love for the gospel and the Church but charge that leaders are a little ‘off the beam’! … Next they say that while the gospel and the Church are divine, the leaders are fallen. Up to this time it may be a passive thing, but now it becomes an active resistance, and frequently the blooming apostate begins to air his views and to crusade. … He now begins to expect persecution and adopts a martyr complex, and when finally excommunication comes he associates himself with other apostates to develop and strengthen cults. At this stage he is likely to claim revelation for himself, revelations from the Lord directing him in his interpretations and his actions. These manifestations are superior to anything from living leaders, he claims.”

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Appreciate your spirit Jason. It is dialog like this that just may draw me back in.
I just barely caught this. But, I still need to take a break for a while.

jwharton wrote:Appreciate your spirit Jason. It is dialog like this that just may draw me back in.
I just barely caught this. But, I still need to take a break for a while.

Understand...done it myself here many times over the past several years...

BrotherOfMahonri wrote: ...

Jason wrote: We clearly have a few folks intent on being destroyers of faith...

... Faith in what? If it is anything but FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST the SON OF GOD, then destory it! Pull it down with the pride of those supporting it! Freedom! God's gospel freedom.

Faith in Christ AND his works AND words. ?Unfortunately? that leaves far more that we need to come to unity on.

jwharton wrote:Actually, I'm pretty wary and need to take a break for a while.
I may pop in once in a while to catch-up on a few threads.
All are free to send me private emails as those will be the only thing I will make sure to keep an eye on.
Perhaps many here will celebrate my laying low as I do seem to annoy a lot of people.
But, in any case, I wish everyone all the very best in their pursuit of love and truth.

May I ask why you feel the need to stop making comments?

bornfree wrote:

jwharton wrote:Actually, I'm pretty wary and need to take a break for a while.
I may pop in once in a while to catch-up on a few threads.
All are free to send me private emails as those will be the only thing I will make sure to keep an eye on.
Perhaps many here will celebrate my laying low as I do seem to annoy a lot of people.
But, in any case, I wish everyone all the very best in their pursuit of love and truth.

May I ask why you feel the need to stop making comments?

It is a combination of many things, but mostly because I am tired of being bantered with baseless slur and other subtle tactics.
Also, I feel like my hands are tied to deal with it in an effective manner and I do not wish to stoop down to that level either.
I've been putting the most annoying members on my foe list when they have refused my requests and proven themselves incorrigible.
Also, my time is very valuable and I really should be tending to other higher priorities in my life right now.